Are the writers bad at giving good backstories for characters?

[Azureth 687]

The writers are good at a lot of aspects of the show to be sure but one area I feel that has been consistently bad is giving characters good backstories, particularly when it comes to explaining why certain villains become villainous. I get the whole "it's a kids show" thing and don't expect something very deep but they have shown to be really good at that not limiting them on other aspects so I find it odd how bad the backstories for characters can be. Take Starlight Glimmer, she decides to become a villain just because one friend she had got his CM and left? 

[Hierok 11,832]

I thought of this many times too. Just look at Zuko from Atla. That is a kids show, but he got one of the best backstories ever. 

[Leavemealone 547]

I get you. It feels a little bit like an overreaction for Starlight to magically enslave an entire village and forcibly remove their cutie marks. 

[StrawCherry 1,673]

Are they bad at giving good backstories, or are they good at giving bad backstories?  Personally, I think Starlight's backstory is very understandable. Maybe it's just me because I can relate to it in a way, but yeah.

[Techno Universal 2,575]

Yeah to be honest the backstories in MLP would be a lot better if they turned to me for coming up with them! Like I could maybe do a better job at them myself!

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

The Cutie Re-Mark is an episode all about the Butterfly effect, every time they go to the past and change things no matter how little, they always return to wildly different futures, Zecora even explains how the smallest ripples can cause the biggest of changes. Starlight's backstory is a great example of this. It's not like she decided to do everything she did right after Sunburst left her, like she just woke up the next morning and went nuts, that one small moment was the ripple that affected the rest of her entire life. There's likely a ton of things in-between when Sunburst left and when she decided to start up her Cult village. The writer's could have gotten that point of the "Butterfly effect" across better in that episode, but I think the idea behind the backstory is just fine.

 I don't think the few backstories we've been given are really bad, more just...simple. Usually we only get the bare details of how their path to villainy started, and then everything in-between is left vague. Which can be nice in it's own way.

[Prospekt 11,019]

Yeah, I agree. Backstories have never been one of this show's strengths. That's why I like to come up with my own ideas to fill in the many gaps.

Kinda like this, except not just for villains. Simple backstories allow fans to come up with their own ideas:

36 minutes ago, BasementSparkle said:

I don't think the few backstories we've been given are really bad, more just...simple. Usually we only get the bare details of how their path to villainy started, and then everything in-between is left vague. Which can be nice in it's own way.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Prospekt

[FlareGun45 2,221]

The backstories never bothered me before on the show! I think they're good enough!

The only problem is: we're not getting enough backstories from characters who really need it like Spike, Zecora, and Discord! The major non-pony characters! Other than Thorax, it's just been ponies receiving backstories.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

Is it that the writers are bad at writing backstories, or is it that the fandom is bad at reading subtlety, subtext, and overall lacks empathy? I don’t know, but the fact we still have people saying something as stupid as “Starlight turned into a Villain because she  lost one friend” certainly makes me think it’s the latter.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

Honestly, when it comes to villains' backstories, fans' have way too high standards. It's like some fans expect something out of Hamlet or something.

Edited October 21, 2017 by heavens-champion

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

The backstory is not amazing but they are good enough, at least in this show because pony's mental states are different from actual humans and humans can do much worse than that just for very petty reason, imagine this, give humans wings and horns, i swear they could kill you just because anything.

If you don't understand why Starlight become a villain just because she lose a friend then rewatch Every Little Thing She Does and Uncommon Bond, that's episode gave you enough hints.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[cmarston1 5,959]

16 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Is it that the writers are bad at writing backstories, or is it that the fandom is bad at reading subtlety, subtext, and overall lacks empathy? I don’t know, but the fact we still have people saying something as stupid as “Starlight turned into a Villain because she  lost one friend” certainly makes me think it’s the latter.

If the show wanted to make us feel sorry for Starlight after she screwed over the fabric and time and space and accept her magically becoming friends with the mane 6 and the victims from the village without having to put any sort of effort in to do so, the show better have given us a really really great backstory.

But that was not what happened.

All the episode told us what that Starlight lost her friend and sometime later become a psychopathic cult leader.  That is a huge leap to go from, and honestly really hard to buy without any sort of context from what happened inbetween.

Also it shouldn't fall upon the audience to fill in major gaps such as character motivations that the writers failed to.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

No, she also told Twilight that she never made another friend because she was afraid she’d lose that friend too. So, we know she spent a large portion of her life alone, and that that isolation eventually drove her to start her village without Cutie marks.

If you can’t imagine a life of solitude, or how much it hurts to know that no one cares about you, then that isn’t the show’s fault, it’s yours.

There isn’t even any subtext here for you to miss, you just straight up ignored an important piece of information. Maybe you should have watched the episode more than once and actually put more than 5 seconds into trying to understand what Starlight went through.

I repeat: the statement “Starlight lost one friend and turned into a villain” is stupid. You want to say her backstory was presented poorly and was rushed? Hey, I’m right there with you, but combine what we learn in the Cutie Remark with what we learn later on, about how Sunburst was the first pony she’s ever cared for, and some other stuff I don’t want to take the time to dissect or is in today’s episode, anyone who says her backstory is bad isn’t paying attention or has a vested interest in hating Starlight.

Edit: I want to apologize if I come across too aggressive, but this bizarre gaslighting of Starlight’s backstory is one of the few things that annoys me about the fandom.

Edited October 21, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[RulesofRarity 493]

Starlight’s backstory was pretty horrendous. Sunburst got his cutie mark and went to Celestia’s school for gifted unicorns and Starlight never bothered to contact him. And if Starlight apparently believed that cutie marks were responsible for the ending of that friendship, why didn’t she try making friends with foal that already had a cutie mark?

But why bother when you can magically enslave a village and destroy Equestria because ya feel sad and still get reformed. 

Edited October 21, 2017 by RulesofRarity

[Hierok 11,832]

21 hours ago, StrawCherry said:

Are they bad at giving good backstories, or are they good at giving bad backstories?  Personally, I think Starlight's backstory is very understandable. Maybe it's just me because I can relate to it in a way, but yeah.

So you would enslaved an entire town because of that? 

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

16 minutes ago, Hierok said:

So you would enslaved an entire town because of that? 

There is a huge difference between undertanding why someone would do something and condoning it. Starlight was a villain, but I understand what she went through to get there. 

21 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

Starlight’s backstory was pretty horrendous. Sunburst got his cutie mark and went to Celestia’s school for gifted unicorns and Starlight never bothered to contact him. And if Starlight apparently believed that cutie marks were responsible for the ending of that friendship, why didn’t she try making friends with foal that already had a cutie mark?

But why bother when you can magically enslave a village and destroy Equestria because ya feel sad and still get reformed. 

So, first, Sunburst left without saying goodbye, and never wrote her again. As far as she’s concerned, as soon as he got his cutie mark, she wasn’t worth being friends with anymore. What, exactly, is she supposed to write to him about? It’s easy to say she should have just written him, but not everyone is able to do it.

And a cutie mark Is just the thing that’s creates the real problem in her world view: irreconcilable differences that eventually drive ponies apart. Sunburst and Starlight’s were exactly the same as each other, but as soon as he got his cutie mark, there was an unchangeable difference between them that split them apart. It doesn’t matter whether a pony already has a cutie mark, they still create differences between ponies.

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[Will Guide 21,362]

2 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

No, she also told Twilight that she never made another friend because she was afraid she’d lose that friend too. So, we know she spent a large portion of her life alone, and that that isolation eventually drove her to start her village without Cutie marks.

If you can’t imagine a life of solitude, or how much it hurts to know that no one cares about you, then that isn’t the show’s fault, it’s yours.

There isn’t even any subtext here for you to miss, you just straight up ignored an important piece of information. Maybe you should have watched the episode more than once and actually put more than 5 seconds into trying to understand what Starlight went through.

I repeat: the statement “Starlight lost one friend and turned into a villain” is stupid. You want to say her backstory was presented poorly and was rushed? Hey, I’m right there with you, but combine what we learn in the Cutie Remark with what we learn later on, about how Sunburst was the first pony she’s ever cared for, and some other stuff I don’t want to take the time to dissect or is in today’s episode, anyone who says her backstory is bad isn’t paying attention or has a vested interest in hating Starlight.

Edit: I want to apologize if I come across too aggressive, but this bizarre gaslighting of Starlight’s backstory is one of the few things that annoys me about the fandom.

I agree that some were not taking the clues well enough to realize. 

She was just a filly, and seriously, young people make mistakes all the time. She didn't become a villain in a single day. Over time, she came to the misguided conclusion that if everyone had the same Cutie Mark, then no one is superior. She sang it right there in her song.

 

Heck, we don't even know how she got her Cutie Mark. And the only flashback we have of her after losing Sunburst but before meeting the Mane 6 was her crossing paths with Muad Pie while the latter was working on her Rock-based degree. All Muad did was truthfully pointed out that with the right rock, you could create a Cutie Mark vault.

There's a reason we have fan fiction: to write our own versions of what happened to certain characters or even give What If scenarios. 

In short, over-critical fans need to stop complaining and think about what could have happened during those missing gaps in history instead of throwing fits just because they're not getting the answers they demand. It makes them look childish!

[MAIKUN 262]

Yeah definitely....look at Starlight, she's Twilight's other half...just like in Kingdom Hearts II...right?

[Ivan The Adorable 304]

I think they're okay at coming up with h backstories, for the most part. 

Where I think the show tends to falter is more in framing of events. I used to talk about this a lot with the analytical peeps in the old days, but the show has a real bad habit of rushing into developments and retroactively having to do work to elaborate on their significance. More notable examples are things like Princess Twilight, but the same is true for a lot of plot elements 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Are you insinuating that having a friend move away isn't grounds for starting your own communist dictatorship?  I think the one thing the movie did better than the show was that it gave Tempest a legit backstory.  I enjoyed the movie, but I admit that I still think the show has had better stories.  Still, I can't help but compare Tempest to Starlight and think that's where the film does have a leg up.  

[Thrond 3,263]

8 hours ago, cmarston1 said:

If the show wanted to make us feel sorry for Starlight after she screwed over the fabric and time and space and accept her magically becoming friends with the mane 6 and the victims from the village without having to put any sort of effort in to do so, the show better have given us a really really great backstory.

I'm not sure this is what was intended, but what I mostly got from that backstory wasn't so much that I should feel sorry for what happened to Starlight as much as that she deserves a second chance, as the cult stuff wasn't done out of malice or greed - at least not initially - but because she somehow came to have no idea how to respond appropriately to frustration. If having one friend taken away by circumstance convinced her that cutie marks are evil, then perhaps that speaks to how badly she needs guidance. 

On the other hand, I'm not quite sure why the village ponies were so quick to forgive. Maybe ponies are just naturally forgiving. 

8 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

No, she also told Twilight that she never made another friend because she was afraid she’d lose that friend too. So, we know she spent a large portion of her life alone, and that that isolation eventually drove her to start her village without Cutie marks.

If you can’t imagine a life of solitude, or how much it hurts to know that no one cares about you, then that isn’t the show’s fault, it’s yours.

On the other hand, I have to wonder whether there were any adults in the village who could have tried to help Starlight. Her reaction to a friend leaving is a bit more extreme than the norm, so it's already a little weird, and was there nobody around who figured she might need help? 

6 hours ago, Hierok said:

So you would enslaved an entire town because of that? 

Okay, let's make this clear: she enslaved an entire town because she somehow convinced herself that it's what was best for them. We don't know that she was thinking about Sunburst when she did that. I don't know why people act as if the show has given us zero steps between when it clearly demonstrated Starlight's hatred of cutie marks.

[Octavia_Melody2 187]

I don't think MLP's writing is as strong as say something like Gravity Falls or Adventure Time but then again, I don't think it's supposed to be. At the end of the day, it's foremost a TV-Y little girls cartoon, not Breaking Bad. So I don't fault weak backstories that much. Although MLP does over do it on the instant last-second redemption. (Lookin' at you Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, Diamond Tiara, Tempest, etc.)

[JMTV99 1,354]

Rushed redemption is one thing, but rushed backstories? That's hard to say, and this is someone coming from me who ADORES backstories in MLP.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Sometimes, I do wish they would focus more on backstories, especially when a character is being developed. I liked what they did with Starlight Glimmer and Stygian, because they had to flesh out the backstories for us to understand the motives. Having Chrysalis stay as a villain was a nice touch, but I do wish we had a backstory of why she was so cruel, something that came even before the events of ACW. 

[Megas 27,760]

It's half and half. For every Sunset Shimmer(even if her run as a villain was pretty shit, her backstory of being a former student of Celestia who went rogue because she didn't get her way is hella intriguing), you get a Starlight Glimmer(Complete opposite of Sunset, a great villain brought down by a really pathetic backstory. Like c'mon they didn't even try to have something better than...that)

Then there was lots of instances where they added backstory that didn't need it and only managed to bring everything downs(Ahuizotl), while neglecting to give a backstory to something that really could have used it(Cozy)