movies/tv Black Panther and the Media praising it as "the most progressive movie ever"

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

14 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

I think the problem lies is that people give more importance to a character's race, sexual orientation, etc; over.... I don't know... the actual character quality? Seriously, these things are given far more importance than they deserve, and we are telling everyone you can relate with a character ONLY if they belong to said things as you. An Agents of SHIELD example, I can relate to Coulson as much as much as Daisy (chinese american), or Mack (black), and I'm hispanic, and last time I've checked, I have yet to lose sleep over not having many hispanic in movies and such

 

Thank you, that's exactly what i think.

In the early 70s, Shaft was probably the very first black superhero on the silverscreen and the title song was incredibly iconic and is still referenced in pop culture till this day. All people of all colors wanted to be like him and that was almost 50 years ago.

Black Panther is really nothing new.

 

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

On 4/19/2018 at 11:07 AM, Yamet said:

Honestly, if you ask me they're given less importance than they deserve by the majority of people. Alright, so perhaps minority representation in media isn't exactly the biggest issue in the world, but it irks me when people act like it doesn't matter at all. 

It shouldn't, because in the end, it only leads to more racial division where such things should matter less and less. 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

12 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

It shouldn't, because in the end, it only leads to more racial division where such things should matter less and less. 

How does minority representation lead to more racial division?  

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

1 hour ago, Yamet said:

How does minority representation lead to more racial division?  

Like I've mentioned before: giving it more importance than it should, to start. Another is demanding said "representation" in everything, even where it doesn't belong, like.... Dunkirk? Where most soldiers where white? But nooooo, that movie was racist because it went to the historically accurate path of having whites instead of appealing to my feelings by having a character that "represents" me , which leads me to another point: minority representation > common sense and rationality according to these extreme liberals

PD: I hate that use of the word "representation"

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

2 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

 Another is demanding said "representation" in everything, even where it doesn't belong, like.... Dunkirk?

A, Very few demand representation where it isn't appropriate. B, Most of the complaints about lack of representation with the Dunkirk movie was about the french IIRC. C, Minority representation wouldn't actually be too out of place in Dunkirk. 

2 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Like I've mentioned before: giving it more importance than it should, to start.

But as I said previously, most people seem to think that it doesn't matter at all.  

Edit: Also, neither of those doesn't really answer my question. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Yamet

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

1 hour ago, Yamet said:

 

But as I said previously, most people seem to think that it doesn't matter at all.  
 

It shouldn't, now we have a movie that is praised just because it's mostly black cast, overshadowing it's actual merits. Now we have a situation where giving the movie less than a perfect score is considered racist

 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

1 minute ago, Steve Piranha said:

It shouldn't, now we have a movie that is praised just because it's mostly black cast, overshadowing it's actual merits. 

I disagree. I mean, it's not like the movie doesn't get praised for it's other merits.

2 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Now we have a situation where giving the movie less than a perfect score is considered racist

By a few crazy people, yes. But the vast majority of people doesn't scream racist just because you don't give the movie less than a perfect score, so I don't really see your point. 

Also, I still don't see how more minority representation in the media leads to racial division.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

2 hours ago, Yamet said:

Very few demand representation where it isn't appropriate.

 

20 minutes ago, Yamet said:

By a few crazy people, yes.

A very few, and a few crazy people.  The problem is that this very few crazy people are far louder than the silent majority.  It only takes these few people to stoke up controversy where none is warranted because they make so much more noise than the majority who have nothing to say on the subject.

The vast majority of people were happy to watch Black Panther for what it is, another middle-of-the-road Marvel flick, with its good and bad points, but this small minority of a few crazy people were the ones demanding that white people stay out of the cinema on opening night because this film isn't for them, and accusing anyone that said anything negative about it of racism.

Sadly this minority is what normal, sensible people are up against, and they can't simply be ignored because they stamp their feet and throw tantrums until the subject of their ire capitulates, which they all to often do if only for the sake of a quiet life.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

2 minutes ago, Concerned Bystander said:

but this small minority of a few crazy people were the ones demanding that white people stay out of the cinema on opening night because this film isn't for them, and accusing anyone that said anything negative about it of racism.

I'm terribly sorry, but I honestly don't see your point. Yes, some people did some stupid shit, but it isn't really fair to pin the blame of that on minority representation as a whole. 

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

7 minutes ago, Yamet said:

I'm terribly sorry, but I honestly don't see your point. Yes, some people did some stupid shit, but it isn't really fair to pin the blame of that on minority representation as a whole. 

I wasn't doing that, I was laying the blame squarely at the feet of the perpetually-offended minority that feel the need to make an issue out of absolutely everything.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Just now, Concerned Bystander said:

I wasn't doing that, I was laying the blame squarely at the feet of the perpetually-offended minority that feel the need to make an issue out of absolutely everything.

Then I apologize, I must have misunderstood you since I'm not really sure what you were trying to say.

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

2 hours ago, Yamet said:

I disagree. I mean, it's not like the movie doesn't get praised for it's other merits.

By a few crazy people, yes. But the vast majority of people doesn't scream racist just because you don't give the movie less than a perfect score, so I don't really see your point. 

Doesn't matter of it's a few or an army, the fact is, they are being listened, and spark problems where there wouldn't be otherwise 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Steve Piranha

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

4 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Doesn't matter of it's a few or an army, the fact is, they are being listened, and spark problems where there wouldn't be otherwise 

A, I don't see how it sparks any problems B, I don't see them being listened too. I mean. while representation of minorities has certainly become better in recent years, there's still quite a bit to go. 

[Gestum 2,493]

27 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Doesn't matter of it's a few or an army, the fact is, they are being listened, and spark problems where there wouldn't be otherwise 

Who the fuck listened to them? Were there any militias walking through the cinemas making sure that only black people saw the movies? Did any theatres refuse to sell tickets to anyone other than black people? Was there some kind of protest against white people seeing "Black Panter"?

The answer to these question are no. The only thing these few crazy people achieved was some tweets (of which a lot was intended as a joke).

[PacificGreen 1,163]

Kinda an unpopular opinion here (haven't read them all) but I actually think it's perfectly fine for people to be highlighting the skin color of the actors. I think it's great that people are given a vision of an alternate Africa that isn't your stereotypical poor African country (one of my friends has actually praised the movie for doing this in light of Donald Trump's comment about "sh*thole" countries). And I do believe there is something special about seeing people like you doing cool things in the movie, especially if you're a minority (please note that I am not saying people can only relate to characters of the same race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc...that's just dumb). Shuri's a good example, as a black woman who's also a brilliant scientist, whom you honestly don't see too often in real life or in movies. She and T'Challa are pretty much tied for my favorite characters in the movie.

Also, the thing about this movie in particular is that race, colonialism and other similar aspects are kind of at the core of the movie, so it's difficult if not impossible to praise this movie as "just another great superhero" without also discussing the racial politics underlying the plot of the movie. Those topics are woven right into the narrative.

And sure, I felt the film's treatment of the token good white guy was a little on-the-nose (and I say this as a privileged Asian-American), but in the end he still ended up playing an important role in the final battle.

That said, there seem to be a lot of people who only praise the movie for those aspects alone, as if those things alone automatically make it a great movie. I too find those types rather annoying, and it just closes the conversation up to meaningful criticism. I also don't really view the film as "revolutionary" or "progressive", except in the sense that it actually has the guts to talk about racial politics while still being an entertaining superhero movie. In that sense I do, however, see it as groundbreaking. But it's not really doing anything "new". So I can concede on that point with you guys.

[BlackPony 77]

I honestly don’t see the issue here. 

 

Not it many people praise this just because it has a black cast. It’s not like we’re just completely dismissing it’s other merits. People are praising it so much because it has a great story, great characters, and other great merits, minority representation is simply a bonus. Don’t understand why people are getting riled up about this, when they’re just enjoying the movie. Let people enjoy there things.

 

Otherwise, I agree with @PacificGreen