Minimum post lengths

[Azura 1,107]

This is somewhat a pain in the flank when I roleplay.

 

Especially when I don't feel like saying much, now I have to type a lot more than I used to.

 

Even now it says my post is too short so I have no choice but to add completely useless things into my posts.

[StarStep 42]

This is somewhat a pain in the flank when I roleplay.

 

Especially when I don't feel like saying much, now I have to type a lot more than I used to.

 

Even now it says my post is too short so I have no choice but to add completely useless things into my posts.

 

Yay, instead of this policy blocking out a few spam messages. Now tons of users are having to add spam to their own legit posts.

 

Sorry had to point out some of the drawbacks to having the character limit set that high. That's not even pointing out all the poignant posts that people will just not bother to post due to not wanting to add spam to their posts.

Brought to you by the council to drop character limit to 60.

[Dark Qiviut 22,393]

Honestly, even when I wrote less than that on occasion, 100 or 200 characters per post is still not all that hard to write. Throughout my time on Internet boards, I've written several actual posts to the point where I can submit it as an academic essay or a small short story (if it were fanfic). I'm on a forum that DOES have a character limit, but it's so small (a five-character limit) that it doesn't really qualify as one.

 

Honestly, this is GREAT for here. This forum desires for us to show more effort in our posts, and this all but enhances it. I have been seeing some smaller-quantity posts as of late, and I'm all for seeing ones that have some meat in them instead of just the garnish. While it may always mean more QUALITY posts, at least it may show a bit more effort in them.

[Neikos 968]

Hmm... seems quite a lot of people are missing the point of this. This is a new rule. Which means if you constantly break it there will be a repecussion. Obviously you can circumvent it easily, the same way you can circumvent the image size in the signature or actually any other rule which exists on this forum. It is up to you to follow it, not to the system to stop you from making short posts.

[My little pwny 1,392]

Hmmmm. I wonder if its a coincidence that the month I joined (May) had anything to do with those stubby posts being so high that month! D: I'm glad something is being done about the short posts but I don't think this is a good permanent solution. I'll recommend something later once I think of something

[kirbyboi 588]

I have noticed this as well, and I agree. Sadly, we have very meaningful posts.

Another thing I have noticed is that whenever there is a new member, they tend to post for a little, then stop posting all at once, and you never see them on the forums again. Our loyal members are decreasing, and it's too bad we don't have some more active members. Then again, they can do what they want, but don't join if our not gonna post.

Anyways, I love this rule. I am one the the newer members, and seeing this will really improve the forums around here. This is a great idea, and I"m sure it will work out very well!

[PonyEcho 1,610]

Hmm... seems quite a lot of people are missing the point of this. This is a new rule. Which means if you constantly break it there will be a repecussion. Obviously you can circumvent it easily, the same way you can circumvent the image size in the signature or actually any other rule which exists on this forum. It is up to you to follow it, not to the system to stop you from making short posts.

 

orely its only a rule then why dosnt it allow people to make the choice to make a shorter post rather then have the damn error pop up if they dont do so, and why does the error pop up even when you go over the minimum i made multiple posts that were alot longer then yours and i still got the error.

i have no problem with this idea exspecially for roleplayers actually i think posts in roleplay shouldnt cound because i ended up racking 150 post with a single roleplay so far, but it was half assed desission, they could have made sure everyone knew about it before they actually did it, that way they could have had a charactor counter ready but instead they rushed it.

its also half assed because there forcing it on everyone rather then just targeting to ones who make pointless and short post just to get the post count up

[Ice Storm 1,020]

This is somewhat a pain in the flank when I roleplay.

 

Especially when I don't feel like saying much, now I have to type a lot more than I used to.

 

Even now it says my post is too short so I have no choice but to add completely useless things into my posts.

 

Unless it is OOC content, there is no such thing as useless content in an RP post. Everything you write in an RP post either displays setting, emotion, or urgnecy and will most often give other players the ability to bounce off the emotions that are being provide and making an RP feel alive rather than just eg.

"Hi pony A,"

"Hello pony B, how are you?"

 

Yes it still gets the point across, but there's very little for other posters to work with. where as,

Pony A had been in a good mood for most of the day, even now as the sun was going down her mood was still in high spirits. As she trotted down the streets of Ponyville for her evening walk home she spotted one of her friends on the way. "Hey Pony B! Hopefully your day was as awesome as mine was!" Pony A announced.

^315 characters

Pony B was on her way home from the park. Her day hadn't been all that great, and in fact had been relatively boring. There were very few ponies in the park today so that meant her stand didn't see a lot of customers and in turn meant that she didn't get a chance to talk to most of her friends today. Just as she had re-entered Ponyville Square, her friend came over to her and the enthusiasm in her voice instantly lifted her spirits. "Hey Pony A, honestly I can't really say that I have. The park was really dull today and there weren't many ponies to talk to today. What's got you in such a good mood?" she inquired in a rather mellow tone.

^644

 

As you can see both posts have substantial information that can be used to expand upon by the other players. The key is, if you are having issues coming up with something to expand on, and there was dialogue in a previous post directed towards you. Just paraphrase the dialogue that was stated based on what it means to your character. That's an easy way to meet a 200 character minimum.

[Tiina Brown 67]

I am contemplating contributing to this thread in a meaningful fashion and hence exceeding 100 characters, which will undoubtedly prove that my post is intellectually driven and contains meaningful substance, hence contributing to important and serious discourse as a consequence.

 

Forcing people to make longer posts won't necessarily increase the quality of posts. It's causation, not correlation.

 

This here.

I understand the 200 in life advice ... but not more.

200 in rp? I have my origin in Roleplaying Games, the pen & paper variants.

In games like such, the responses are often quick and short, like "What are you doing?" "I'm running after him" I'm trying to pick the lock" "I shoot at the mushrooms" "Roll 3D4 -5" ... and so on.

To me, making a limit like even 100+ would make it impossible for me to roleplay or GM anything on here, i would be forced to the roleplays that are more like joint storytelling, ....

 

100+ everywhere else? What if i just want to say that i agree?

No, i have to more or less repeat what the one i agreed with said.

Also, see what i quoted above.

 

This will lead to longer sentences, but i sincerely doubt the quality will increase .... except for in one way: Several used to posting short will stop posting, and that includes several that post with "less content".

Also, i'm used to say 3 words if i mean those three words, and 100 words if i mean those words.

It may seem like i won't have any problems with the limit, but belive me, next time i feel like writing "I like this", then i will consider removing myself from this site if i cannot do so at that time.

 

Unless it is OOC content, there is no such thing as useless content in an RP post.

That depends on what style of roleplay one is going by. See above

.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Tiina Brown

[Tom 891]

Sounds like a good idea to me. It shouldn't have any adverse effects either, as 100 characters is only a couple sentences.

Hopefully it will prove successful in dampening the amount of spam and otherwise lower quality posts.

 

Wait a minute, how does requiring a character count automatically ensure quality?

 

As Zoop has said, it's to mitigate the problem, not eliminate it.

[3005 332]

Sounds like a good idea to me. It shouldn't have any adverse effects either, as 100 characters is only a couple sentences.

Hopefully it will prove successful in dampening the amount of spam and otherwise lower quality posts.

 

As Zoop has said, it's to mitigate the problem, not eliminate it.

 

What is the point of mitigating the problem if it still doesn't ensure quality, which appears to be the whole basis of the issue?

[HomuraBL 851]

Any chance on letting us in on how the character counter thingy is coming along?

 

 

 

(But seriously take your time)

[Ice Storm 1,020]

This here.

I understand the 200 in life advice ... but not more.

200 in rp? I have my origin in Roleplaying Games, the pen & paper variants.

In games like such, the responses are often quick and short, like "What are you doing?" "I'm running after him" I'm trying to pick the lock" "I shoot at the mushrooms" "Roll 3D4 -5" ... and so on.

To me, making a limit like even 100+ would make it impossible for me to roleplay or GM anything on here, i would be forced to the roleplays that are more like joint storytelling, ....

 

100+ everywhere else? What if i just want to say that i agree?

No, i have to more or less repeat what the one i agreed with said.

Also, see what i quoted above.

 

This will lead to longer sentences, but i sincerely doubt the quality will increase .... except for in one way: Several used to posting short will stop posting, and that includes several that post with "less content".

Also, i'm used to say 3 words if i mean those three words, and 100 words if i mean those words.

It may seem like i won't have any problems with the limit, but belive me, next time i feel like writing "I like this", then i will consider removing myself from this site if i cannot do so at that time.

 

 

That depends on what style of roleplay one is going by. See above

.

 

Forum Role-play does not = pen n paper roleplay. Forum Role-playing is joint story telling. The entire point of PnP RPs is that quick action yes. Which you don't have on a Forum. Those types are best run with Maptools or Skype. Forum based RPs are supposed to be story driven based on a single characters point of view on the story. And even then, if you're doing Pen and Paper RPs and you aren't putting your heart and soul into it, then it's still not being done right. The point of Role-playing is to take on the personification of that character while you are controlling that character. Which means emotions, reaction, and their thought process. If you're just saying I do this, then there isn't any development in the character, and in my honest opinion, is just laziness.

 

Meanwhile all it takes is a few extra words to get the point across while adding flavor to the RP and the character.

Example:

"I agree with everything," joe said.

^36 characters

Joe listened to what the group around him was saying thinking on the idea. Once they finished, he gave his opinion. "I like the idea, it sounds decent enough, and we don't really have another choice."

^200 even

 

Or,

 

Joe looked around to everyone as they spoke. The words that they were speaking were, in his opinion, utter nonsense and would get everyone killed in a second. "That would be a good idea if it wasn't as dangerous. Is there any other way?"

^237

and it adds the emotion and connection that players should have to a character when Role-playing. after all, that's the entire point.

[Whiteshade 1,426]

Forum Role-play does not = pen n paper roleplay. Forum Role-playing is joint story telling. The entire point of PnP RPs is that quick action yes. Which you don't have on a Forum. Those types are best run with Maptools or Skype. Forum based RPs are supposed to be story driven based on a single characters point of view on the story. And even then, if you're doing Pen and Paper RPs and you aren't putting your heart and soul into it, then it's still not being done right. The point of Role-playing is to take on the personification of that character while you are controlling that character. Which means emotions, reaction, and their thought process. If you're just saying I do this, then there isn't any development in the character, and in my honest opinion, is just laziness.

 

Meanwhile all it takes is a few extra words to get the point across while adding flavor to the RP and the character.

Example:

"I agree with everything," joe said.

^36 characters

Joe listened to what the group around him was saying thinking on the idea. Once they finished, he gave his opinion. "I like the idea, it sounds decent enough, and we don't really have another choice."

^200 even

 

Or,

 

Joe looked around to everyone as they spoke. The words that they were speaking were, in his opinion, utter nonsense and would get everyone killed in a second. "That would be a good idea if it wasn't as dangerous. Is there any other way?"

^237

and it adds the emotion and connection that players should have to a character when Role-playing. after all, that's the entire point.

 

What I interpreted from that:

"I do not accept your style of roleplay, and therefore you are clearly being lazy and not developing emotions, reaction, and the essentials of roleplay"

 

Joe clearly thought that that was a load of bull. Therefore, Joe decided after careful consideration with a cost benefit analysis, to openly voice his opinions. "That's bull", Joe said.

vs

"That's bull", Joe said.

[Random User 249]

While I do enjoy and appreciate the concept of defeating low-content posts with like five words, 100 as the minimum seems rather lengthy to me. I normally contribute enough to a conversation to where it isn't much of a problem, but every now and then I do like throwing in a joke or short answer that still relates and/or contributes to the conversation.

 

Please don't take that as complaining, just giving feedback I suppose.

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,526]

There is one thing I would like to point out that somewhat problematic to remedy. Below I will put a ten character message between quotation marks. This shows a significant flaw in the system.

 

""

 

Despite absolutely no space existing between the two quotation mark sets, there is actually ten characters as recognized both by the character counter of the forum and by any online character counter. The specific character I copied and pasted ten times corresponds to the Unicode value of U+206E, which is "National Digit Shapes". The character is not displayable, is not visible, and takes up no physical space, but is counted as a character. This character can be accessed via charmap, in the Arial or Arial Black fonts, right above the currency signs. About twenty other such characters exist. Using this, any amount of text can very easily reach 100 characters. Is there, possibly, a way to exclude these specific Unicode characters from the count, rendering this method useless?

 

I could try adding all these characters to the swear filter, which should be able to remove them.

 

Wait a minute, how does requiring a character count automatically ensure quality? Look at this:

 

"gais look im typin on mlpforums.com and its soooo much fun!!!!!!!!!!!! u should all tri it! im gona invite ALL my friends here!"

 

That reaches the limit, no? Yet it's not a quality post, it's full of errors and irrelevance. A post should not be removed if it gets a point across without meeting the limit. If it does ensue discussion but is under the requirement, it should be allowed to stay. We should NOT have to add meaningless words to posts because they do not reach a certain point.

 

On another note, how is deleting irrelevant posts any different from making sure there are 100 characters in a post? o.o

 

What is the point of mitigating the problem if it still doesn't ensure quality, which appears to be the whole basis of the issue?

 

Because whenever a moderator deletes a post for being spammy or of a low quality, we get disgruntled members screaming bloody murder at us for being "biased" or having a death wish against them, when we're only doing our job to clean up the site. This happens much more often than you might think.

 

Since the character minimum is fully automated, you cannot accuse anyone for anything when your post is so short that it would be worth deleting anyway. Meanwhile, there is no logical argument you can make a case for yourself with if you attempted to circumvent the system by adding nonsense to your post.

 

100+ everywhere else? What if i just want to say that i agree?

No, i have to more or less repeat what the one i agreed with said.

Also, see what i quoted above.

 

This will lead to longer sentences, but i sincerely doubt the quality will increase .... except for in one way: Several used to posting short will stop posting, and that includes several that post with "less content".

Also, i'm used to say 3 words if i mean those three words, and 100 words if i mean those words.

It may seem like i won't have any problems with the limit, but belive me, next time i feel like writing "I like this", then i will consider removing myself from this site if i cannot do so at that time..

 

I think you missed the point. Posts like "I like this" or "I agree" contribute virtually nothing of value to MLP Forums as a website and community. Great, you agree with a post, but what is the significance of your agreement? Posts like that clutter discussions and ultimately lead to more scrolling and clicking being necessary to get to the good stuff in a topic.

 

If you only want to express your agreement to or support of a post, that's what the brohoof button is for. Posts are meant for you to produce some kind of content with, and "I like this" hardly qualifies as content.

[KakeiTheWolf 652]

I could try adding all these characters to the swear filter, which should be able to remove them.

 

I could tell you which ones they are, if that would help.

[Ice Storm 1,020]

What I interpreted from that:

"I do not accept your style of roleplay, and therefore you are clearly being lazy and not developing emotions, reaction, and the essentials of roleplay"

 

Joe clearly thought that that was a load of bull. Therefore, Joe decided after careful consideration with a cost benefit analysis, to openly voice his opinions. "That's bull", Joe said.

vs

"That's bull", Joe said.

 

No, there is a place for pen and paper games, and there is a place for joint story games. I've been doing both for almost 14 years, and I'm currently in 5 different Pen and Paper games, as well as about 20 different forum RP topics. If you aren't showing emotion or try to portray your characters intentions, then you aren't Role-Playing. You're just there. That's true no matter what style of RP that is, the post minimum is there for your benefit, not an annoyance. Honestly the minimums that are posted here are very easy to hit. I don't understand why everyone is complaining.

[SBaby 660]

No, there is a place for pen and paper games, and there is a place for joint story games. I've been doing both for almost 14 years, and I'm currently in 5 different Pen and Paper games, as well as about 20 different forum RP topics. If you aren't showing emotion or try to portray your characters intentions, then you aren't Role-Playing. You're just there. That's true no matter what style of RP that is, the post minimum is there for your benefit, not an annoyance. Honestly the minimums that are posted here are very easy to hit. I don't understand why everyone is complaining.

 

In short, forum RPs can best be described as glorified Chain Fan Fics. It sounds bad, but it's not. That's just what it is. But that's why they need to have the 200 character minimum. I mean, how else do you add to a story without that minimum? So I totally agree with that.

 

 

But that actually brings up another good point.

 

The 200 character minimum should apply to the Fan Fiction section too. The reason for this is because of the fact that responses to fanfics should contain some degree of constructive commentary in it, whether the person replying is criticizing the Fic or praising it. What can they improve on? Or, why do you like it? What part do you like? It just seems to make sense to me. And really, 200 characters isn't that hard to hit when replying to that kind of topic.

Edited July 21, 2012 by SBaby

[3005 332]

I could try adding all these characters to the swear filter, which should be able to remove them.

 

 

 

 

Because whenever a moderator deletes a post for being spammy or of a low quality, we get disgruntled members screaming bloody murder at us for being "biased" or having a death wish against them, when we're only doing our job to clean up the site. This happens much more often than you might think.

 

Since the character minimum is fully automated, you cannot accuse anyone for anything when your post is so short that it would be worth deleting anyway. Meanwhile, there is no logical argument you can make a case for yourself with if you attempted to circumvent the system by adding nonsense to your post.

 

 

 

I think you missed the point. Posts like "I like this" or "I agree" contribute virtually nothing of value to MLP Forums as a website and community. Great, you agree with a post, but what is the significance of your agreement? Posts like that clutter discussions and ultimately lead to more scrolling and clicking being necessary to get to the good stuff in a topic.

 

If you only want to express your agreement to or support of a post, that's what the brohoof button is for. Posts are meant for you to produce some kind of content with, and "I like this" hardly qualifies as content.

 

As one cynic once put it: "Web 2.0, where you make the content and we control you." I've found that in our current digital lifestyle, particularly on forums, a website is nonexistent without the support of the community. In fact, such sites as MLP Forums are nothing without the people because it's not an entity where the focal point is content; in this case, it is entirely community-oriented. I've run and been a part of several forums in my time, and personally, I feel deleting posts is a form of censorship. Aren't server costs entirely funded by donations from the users? Even if not entirely, those donations do go towards keeping the site up, which is the community's money. Why is it not a democracy if the community itself is assisting in funds? I fully understand the staff's desire for quality posts, but this is a forum. A forum for discussion. If a thread goes off-topic, I really don't see the harm in that, because really all they're doing is chatting and is that not the goal of a forum? To discuss? There is a HUGE difference between spam and posts that are on the shorter side, off-topic, etc. If somebody says, "I like this", how is that not contributing to the topic? They're giving their opinion, no? Requiring an analysis of their opinions verges on stupidity rather than attempting to cut back on "bad" posts.

 

I respect what has been built here, but I believe that the community should be given more say in actual operations, considering the amount of donations that are given every month.

[Ice Storm 1,020]

In short, forum RPs can best be described as glorified Chain Fan Fics, in a nutshell. It sounds bad, but it's not. That's just what it is. But that's why they need to have the 200 character minimum. I mean, how else do you add to a story without that minimum? So I totally agree with that.

 

 

But that actually brings up another good point.

 

The 200 character minimum should apply to the Fan Fiction section too. The reason for this is because of the fact that responses to fanfics should contain some degree of constructive commentary in it, whether the person replying is criticizing the Fic or praising it. What can they improve on? Or, why do you like it? What part do you like? It just seems to make sense to me.

 

This. Exactly. Role-playing is supposed to tell a story, and the story is told by all players involved, not just the GM. I also agree this should be in effect in not just the fanfic area, but Octavia's Hall in general. I'm a musician and a writer as well and I can't remember how many times, (on forums in general) where I've gotten nothing but, "this is good" on something I've wrote. While the compliment is nice yes, it doesn't tell me what you liked about it or any areas that could use improvement.

 

and @ Dylan: Honestly, I'm quite certain that most of the people who are subscribers are wanting to keep the quality of the forums up just as much as the forums themselves. If I actually had a job right now, I would easily start throwing 20-30$ a month myself at the forums just because of this change alone. You can ask any person, heck The show itself did a special on this. Quality trumps quantity, every time.

[3005 332]

Quality trumps quantity, every time.

 

That wasn't what I was arguing. My point is that if users are donating every month, they should get some sort of say in decision making. The quality/quantity does not matter here; it's about censorship, and that's what I believe this is. Just right now, I was posting in "What Are You Listening To?" and had to add irrelevant parts to my message so that I could post it. Cutting down on spam and low quality posts shouldn't come at the expense of everyday posting. It also irritates me that "low quality posts" are included here; who decides whether or not the post is of low quality? Once again, the staff's definition of low quality posts are posts that contribute nothing to the topic, are short, etc. Yet, in this music thread, how much more can I add to the post without the post ITSELF becoming spammy?

[NavelColt 22,880]

The 200 character minimum should apply to the Fan Fiction section too. The reason for this is because of the fact that responses to fanfics should contain some degree of constructive commentary in it, whether the person replying is criticizing the Fic or praising it. What can they improve on? Or, why do you like it? What part do you like? It just seems to make sense to me. And really, 200 characters isn't that hard to hit when replying to that kind of topic.

 

That can be argued for all of Creative Resources, ergo any kind of art, not just fanfics. Not many people would be too psyched about supporting that. Like what's been said, there's a line that get's crossed in which stricting out all these forums too much will drive members away. I agree with it for roleplays, but I don't for fanfics or any of the other art. 100 is plenty for the fanfic and art sections.

Edited July 22, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Whiteshade 1,426]

and @ Dylan: Honestly, I'm quite certain that most of the people who are subscribers are wanting to keep the quality of the forums up just as much as the forums themselves. If I actually had a job right now, I would easily start throwing 20-30$ a month myself at the forums just because of this change alone. You can ask any person, heck The show itself did a special on this. Quality trumps quantity, every time.

 

I do have a job, and I have reservations about donating money to these forums, with the direction that this is going.

+1 counterpoint

 

Also if quality trumps quantity, then why is there a rule regulating the quantity of a post? Succinct is dead, heil filler!

[Neikos 968]

orely its only a rule then why dosnt it allow people to make the choice to make a shorter post rather then have the damn error pop up if they dont do so, and why does the error pop up even when you go over the minimum i made multiple posts that were alot longer then yours and i still got the error.

i have no problem with this idea exspecially for roleplayers actually i think posts in roleplay shouldnt cound because i ended up racking 150 post with a single roleplay so far, but it was half assed desission, they could have made sure everyone knew about it before they actually did it, that way they could have had a charactor counter ready but instead they rushed it.

its also half assed because there forcing it on everyone rather then just targeting to ones who make pointless and short post just to get the post count up

 

You do know you just proved perfectly how the system doesn't stop you from making bad replies. You know:

Make quality posts.