technology Support the construction of a space elevator!

[RazzyJam 1,519]

Well if we get obama to spend as much as money as he does now on NASA, it won't take too long if you do the math.

 

But in all seriousness,i heard about this before and it sounds cool.

 

Obama doesnt spend any money on NASA. He actually cut the space program two years ago. We could have been on mars now if it werent for him

[Octavia's Cellozoid 1,488]

By the way... If humans try to build a space elevator, where will be it's last "floor"? Because there is really nothing that is static in space. Everything is always moving, and probably gravitational forces of the moon will make it be ripped of the earth, or probably pushed by earth's gravitational area. Also, building something this scale would devastate earth's resources, putting the Humankind and all the other species that live on earth endangered.

I don't think it will be a good idea because Earth never stops spinning, and balancing an elevator would not be an easy task.

But that's just my opinion, so nobody cares. :/

 

Edit: I used the same word so many times... -.-

Edit: I am not saying that I disagree with the idea, I am just saying that is not healthy to do such thing.

 

It's a cool idea, but I agree with Devious here. This could turn out kinda bad if he's right. :/ I hope you guys've worked out these details.

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

How does the presence of a tube change the laws of physics?

Whether the air is enclosed in a tube or freely flowing about, gravity WILL pull it toward the ground. The pressure gradient will be the same inside and outside, the forces (gravity pulling inwards vs pressure+"centripetal" pushing outwards) will be the same, therefore the system will behave the same (i.e: no overall air flow).

Unless the gas inside the tube is different (hot air, near-vacuum, helium...), so you might as well use balloons.

 

The gas inside the tube has nowhere to go except inside the tube. Gas on our planet can go x and y, but gas in the tube can only go z. Once the gas has been ejected from from the tube, it will create a vaccuum and the tube can function as a vacuum.

 

Now that I think about it, it probably wont work since it wont have enough power to carry the elevator up, since it's not a conventional elevator. If it was, you could have the elevator perfectly sealed in the tube and let the gas on the bottom push the elevator to the sky.

Edited September 15, 2012 by glitterlicious

[RazzyJam 1,519]

Addressing issues from an objective point of view:

(Not addressing physics here, there are no issues involved with the physics or dynamics of the overall structure. It is 100% safe, stable, and reliable in design.)

 

Resources:

Complaint - well building this thing would take to many resources, and therefore we shouldn't build it because we should use them for more important things like hospitals and schools.

 

Solution - First things first. Ive never heard of carbon nanotubes being used for anything other than rigid vertical structural cables, and Im not sure where 60,000 miles of kevlar is needed anywhere. both of these are abundant materials and make up most of the superstructure of the elevator cable. As for steel, metals, and materials for the construction the station and lift, they would b the LEAST used materials in construction. If there is any reason for legitimate concern, we can analyze use of such a structure.

• No more rocket production for heavy lifting into space. only lightweight vessels for coasting through terrestrial orbits to service satellites and such. getting into space requires no new construction of projects or vehicles, because easy acces is no readily available through the new elevator.

• A plan was put in action a year ago by private investors to deconstruct near earth objects (i.e. Meteors, asteroids, and other such satellites) for their mineral content. they would strip mine these space rocks for Irons, Nickels, Copper, Zinc, Uranium, Water, Oxygen, and much more. all of these are essential to Support of earths infrastructure, and also the further construction of interplanetary projects.

 

Funding:

Concern - This thing is going to cost like a billion trillion dollars, why would we ever waste it on something as useless as this *cough*

 

Solution - This project is actually cheaper than it sounds. the only expensive parts are the nano tubing, at about 4 million dolars, and funding for the base structure and station mounted somewhere along the elevator (valued at at least 10.5 million) all in all, the MINIMUM cost for the construction of this project could be around 20-30 mil. a mere drop in the bucket compared to other government spendings, and a fraction of the US GDP. Furthermore, the construction of this structure could give way to economic growth, given the already budding prospects for private space companies, and the Infinite promise of resource harvesting from other celestial bodies. We could be looking at a third industrial revolution, depending on how much growth the structure provides.

 

Attack on the structure:

Concern - What if someone like flew a plane into this thing, it doesn't sound like it would stay up.

 

Solution - Its already in orbit, it would just hang there with a cable dangling off of it, first off. Second, one would really have to hate idea of progress and future growth in science, technology, and economy.

 

 

 

The gas inside the tube has nowhere to go except inside the tube. Gas on our planet can go x and y, but gas in the tube can only go z. Once the gas has been ejected from from the tube, it will create a vaccuum and the tube can function as a vacuum.

 

Though I said I wouldn't adress physics, I will adress this. This assumes that there is a radical change in gravitational pull by the earth inside the tube. the Atmosphere is still retained by placement of tube considering the gravitational force still exists. This assumption you are making would imply that oxygen on earth can only move on x and y because it is being retained from the vacuum of space by some other force than gravity, or there is some giant invisible bubble holding the earths air in (like in space balls! ). The placement of a tube would only restrict movement along the x and y axis, not force movement along the z. The only z axis movement you would achieve is rising and falling of air due to temperature differences, which is no different than without the tube. Gravity still holds the air there, hence we always have 14.9 psi of air around us

[caesar15 231]

Obama doesnt spend any money on NASA. He actually cut the space program two years ago. We could have been on mars now if it werent for him

 

What I was trying to say is that he is spending so much money on other stuff, that if he spent all that money on NASA isntead, we could easily make a space elevator.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

What I was trying to say is that he is spending so much money on other stuff, that if he spent all that money on NASA isntead, we could easily make a space elevator.

 

Now this makes more sense, and completely deserves a brohoof! YAY Smart people! Im just upset that the Constelation program never happened ;_;

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

Second, one would really have to hate idea of progress and future growth in science, technology, and economy.

YEAH I TOTALLY AGREE, IT'S NOT LIKE WE SEE A LOT OF THAT SHIT HAPPENING TODAY~

XP

 

Also the Western lifestyle has a tendency to make people short-sighted, both literally and metaphorically. They prefer spending money on things with more immediate results, such as making up excuses to justify invading another country.

 

By the way, um. How's it possible to build something 100% safe/reliable/stable/anything (unless you consider a swaying of several meters to be negligible, which I guess it is)?

Believe me, there always ARE weaknesses, but you can devise ways to compensate. If the cable ruptures for example (unlikely but possible, if I understand you), it won't be highly problematic since the station is in geosynchronous orbit, but it might still move a few meters (maybe more if the moon happens to be nearby, by chance or by the harmdoers' choice), so you'll need to readjust its exact position for repairs.

 

My opinion has shifted a little towards the favorable side, though I think we should give the financial aspect more thought. Your estimate sounds more feasible, but it's the minimum, so we still don't know how much it'd actually cost in the end.

The mineral resources were covered, as I see, so I'll shut up about that. Likewise for power - if we can produce enough electricity on Earth, we could afford lasers at the base sending beams at solar panels underneath the cars.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Feather Spiral

[RazzyJam 1,519]

YEAH I TOTALLY AGREE, IT'S NOT LIKE WE SEE A LOT OF THAT SHIT HAPPENING TODAY~

XP

 

Also the Western lifestyle has a tendency to make people short-sighted, both literally and metaphorically. They prefer spending money on things with more immediate results, such as making up excuses to justify invading another country.

 

By the way, um. How's it possible to build something 100% safe/reliable/stable/anything (unless you consider a swaying of several meters to be negligible, which I guess it is)?

Believe me, there always ARE weaknesses, but you can devise ways to compensate. If the cable ruptures for example (unlikely but possible, if I understand you), it won't be highly problematic since the station is in geosynchronous orbit, but it might still move a few meters (maybe more if the moon happens to be nearby, by chance or by the harmdoers' choice), so you'll need to readjust its exact position for repairs.

 

My opinion has shifted a little towards the favorable side, though I think we should give the financial aspect more thought. Your estimate sounds more feasible, but it's the minimum, so we still don't know how much it'd actually cost in the end.

The mineral resources were covered, as I see, so I'll shut up about that. Likewise for power - if we can produce enough electricity on Earth, we could afford lasers at the base sending beams at solar panels underneath the cars.

 

Yay! Ive finally convinced someone! While it is true that it is not EXACTLY %100 safe, considering the environment and the unpredictability of that environment (space), most of the danger is negligible. The nice thing about having a space station on the end of the cable is that you can retro rockets in it, so that if (god forbid) the cable were to snap and the station were to move, it could be nudged back into position by those retros. Patching the cable would take more time, and would have to be done from the top down, considering the botom half would fall due to gravity. A winch and a helicopter are the simplest solutions here.

 

Finances are a valid issue in terms of funding the actual operation, but not necessarily the cost. As they say in the business world, "you have to spend money to earn money", that is to say, make good investments. This would be one of those good investments considering the contributions it could make to the global market. So while we dont know exactly how much it would cost, we can make close estimates based on what we do know. However, money should never be an object when it comes to providing for the welfare of others (unless of course it means taxing some to provide for others. everyone hates taxes right?)

 

The electricity problem only comes about depending on what political limitations are instituted for the production of energy. More specifically, if restrictions exist based on environmental concerns. Solar, Wind, and Hydroelectric energies all sound nice on paper, but they are not efficient enough to become the industry driving machines we need. For the past 1000 years, one energy source has provided electricity to the world with no problems. Ever. Care to guess what it is? Its the steam engine. All electrical plants have one, the only difference is the methodology of heating the water to create steam. Everything from coal plants to nuclear reactors use this device because its the most damn efficient machine ever conceived by man (aside from, of course, the Panama Canal, the only existing perpetual motion machine in the world).

Nuclear energy will be the best option. It provides an abundance of energy for all of our needs, its surprisingly clean, and the current facilities we have can be made even cleaner and safer with the introduction of simple LFTR reactors, which would require no change to the current structure of our energy facilities other than switching fuel from Uranium to Thorium, and using a Liquid Fluoride solution to transfer heat from the reactor to the boiler. I could talk about LFTR all day, but I wont, so here is a vid if you are interested in that.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY&list=FLQfGSBBLpO8Nt9qLj5TRy3g&index=10&feature=plpp_video

 

Not even to mention, it has a bad ass name. "Thorium"! LFTR Reactor!

LiftPort Space Elevator!

 

Just sounds epic

Edited September 15, 2012 by WingedRatchet

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

nuclear reactors of any kind=meh. super safety hazard.

 

anyway this wont work for a cable elevator, but heres what i was talking about.

 

 

first you have a pancake of lighter than air balloons. They float up to the sky...thus pushing out all air inside the tube, priming the tube.

 

Then the elevator is free to float upwards because of the pressure difference, assisted by a balloon attached to it.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

nuclear reactors of any kind=meh. super safety hazard.

 

anyway this wont work for a cable elevator, but heres what i was talking about.

 

first you have a pancake of lighter than air balloons. They float up to the sky...thus pushing out all air inside the tube, priming the tube.

 

Then the elevator is free to float upwards because of the pressure difference, assisted by a balloon attached to it.

 

This would work in theory, but you've changed what I initially assumed from your earlier statements. a stand alone tube would not do the lifting, but physical change of the pressures would indeed cause lift. The only issue I see with this chart is that the pressure remains initially the same unless you were to increase it under the elevator manually. In that case, you've essentially described a pneumatic piston.

 

As for the nuclear reactor, the video I posted explains a lot about it. Nuclear is both safe and clean. It produces no air pollution, and the radioactivity that comes out is no different than that of what is given off by the sun. Now just like the sun, over exposure is extremely dangerous and is a natural carcinogen, so its will kill you if you aren't safe. But a nuclear reactor, contrary to popular belief, does not explode (unless you use the cold war era Russian design... stupid graphite reactor...) A Nuclear reactor undergoes a meltdown, which is exactly what it sounds like; It heats up and melts through the reactor core... and the concrete... and the dirt under the building... That is under rare circumstances, such as if the reactor isn't cooled. This LFTR reactor is much more safe, cheap and efficient, given that it can not melt down because it is already in a liquid state, the materials are less radioactive and more abundant, and it still provides the same amount of energy as a traditional Uranium reactor.

 

 

Also, @ OP would it be possible to get involved in this project in other ways? Do they take/need interns at any point? This is just really an intrest of mine and I would love to contribute to this despite the fact I am penniless.

[Expired delta 76]

this would cost millions maybe even billions of dollors I mean ya it sounds cool an all but think of the work this would take not only is it a huge target for anyone to shoot at or try to destroy but it's a huge investment that could go completely wrong. now yes it could replace sending rockets to space but do you really think there going to build a thing of this size? it's been tried before an not only that but the USA does not have room to spend anything els that may plunge them into more money problems. just my thoughts though

[RazzyJam 1,519]

Erm *cough* *cough* feel free to take a gander at some of my previous posts. They give some helpful insight to these sorts of things

[Expired delta 76]

Erm *cough* *cough* feel free to take a gander at some of my previous posts. They give some helpful insight to these sorts of things

 

yes the energy is not what I'm pointing out its the damn thing falling or braking an falling back that what would make it dangerous also it has a very high factor to fall if you see how it would be built

[RazzyJam 1,519]

yes the energy is not what I'm pointing out its the damn thing falling or braking an falling back that what would make it dangerous also it has a very high factor to fall if you see how it would be built

 

See my previous previous posts. I adress the concerns of economic and resource requirements and provision, and also the event of an attack or disaster along the cables length.

 

(4th post on the page )

Edited September 16, 2012 by WingedRatchet

[Expired delta 76]

 

 

See my previous previous posts. I adress the concerns of economic and resource requirements and provision, and also the event of an attack or disaster along the cables length.

 

(4th post on the page )

 

yes but there's nothing there going to really gain money wise yes a space elevated machin would attract some money but this project is not a $50 here maybe $45 here they need money in steady amounts like 500k weekly maybe even more it's not cheap is what I'm pointing out.

but it is posible not going to say that's wrong though if they get people to back them then it could just happen but I see much problems that could come of trying to build it is all

[Retro*Derpy 3,191]

I could see this happening, despite all the people posting about the problems. (Like what evilshy said, don't you think they thought of these already?)

So i wish the best of luck to feld0 and the project. Good luck!

 

(Though from what i know i prefer the magnet theory of space transportation, but that's just me)

[RazzyJam 1,519]

I could see this happening, despite all the people posting about the problems. (Like what evilshy said, don't you think they thought of these already?)

So i wish the best of luck to feld0 and the project. Good luck!

 

(Though from what i know i prefer the magnet theory of space transportation, but that's just me)

 

I too enjoy the use of space magnetization. But I have... other ideas on what it should be used for. (If you've played Halo, you may have an idea)

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

-snip-

Eh, I was already convinced this was a good idea... but not during our lifetimes.

That being said, you DID change my mind about the resources thing - I hadn't realized it was a cable instead of a tube. :3

 

Yeah, just like satellites always have engines ("retros", didn't know they were called that) and the ISS also had them. So I thought it was pretty obvious the station would have some too, haha

 

You're saying that, while the project itself might take considerable amounts of money to run, it'd cost much less in the long run because of the money it saves us? I don't really know if that result will come soon enough (i.e: if the elevator is used frequently enough), otherwise there'll be a lot of debts to cover. I never understood economy and finances though (also politics), so I'll refrain from making assumptions.

(PS: I see what you mean with the taxes, but here in France, they're considered pretty normal. XD)

 

I like the idea of nuclear powerplants, we have a lot of them in France anyway. As long as they respect security protocols (which are probably taken seriously because of widely known, long-range and long-term effects) and dispose of radioactive waste without major impact on the environment.

Besides, a lot of our power use could be improved greatly; by adjusting the settings of air conditioners, for example, to make them work smarter (when it gets hot/cold inside) and not harder (since higher temperature gradients increase heat transfer). Ideas like that are already being advertised all around the world, and this space elevator sounds like an excellent reason to actually take action and make laws about it.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to admit, I didn't know about this initiative:

A plan was put in action a year ago by private investors to deconstruct near earth objects (i.e. Meteors, asteroids, and other such satellites) for their mineral content. they would strip mine these space rocks for Irons, Nickels, Copper, Zinc, Uranium, Water, Oxygen, and much more.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Feather Spiral

[Bunches 81]

this is a really cool idea but unfortunately i can not share any money with you all. i do wish you the best though, this is a very innovative idea.

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

Rainy_days shared with me this video, it might be helpful. I couldn't get much info on Google on the availability of carbon nanotubes, but this guy says in a lab they can only make an inch of it.

 

http://bigthink.com/ideas/40501

 

Also you have to keep in mind that the boat hosting the cable will probably have stormy weather.

Edited September 18, 2012 by glitterlicious

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

Don't forget, we'll probably discover new ways to produce things quicker.

How fast do you think metal sheets used in cars, for example, were initially produced? Our genetics teacher yesterday was also talking about DNA sequencing methods, which are way faster today than they used to be.

[ZomBrony 347]

I want to write something cool and inspiring to help you out but I can't think of anything right now. It's really cool that you're working on this and judging but what you said it sounds like you implemented some MLP Forums into the LiftPort site which is even cooler. I have a bunch of question but even though you said the site isn't complete I think I'll check there.

 

Hopefully this isn't necessary, but good luck nonetheless

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

I want to write something cool and inspiring to help you out but I can't think of anything right now.

Lemme think of somethin for ye.

Um.

 

Let's hope this project becomes reality...

*puts on shades*

...and ELEVATES our civilization.

 

I'm so sorry, don't murder me plz. D:

[walale12 23]

To all those ponies saying "where will this lift go" etc. It's elegantly simple, in fact I think I remember a question regarding Space lifts in an exam paper I had about 7 years ago, I think there was something about it being attached to a geostationary satellite, besides, It could probably work as a sort of airport for space shuttles, where a space shuttle, or whatever they'll replace it with, just docks onto it and does "space tours" or something along those lines, anyway, we could even just use it as a sort of observation deck, where we can look down upon the planet or whatever.

[ZomBrony 347]

Lemme think of somethin for ye.

Um.

 

Let's hope this project becomes reality...

*puts on shades*

...and ELEVATES our civilization.

 

I'm so sorry, don't murder me plz. D:

 

Why would I ever murder anyone? Not only is killing badong, I have no reason to. That is actually pretty good. Better than anything I could come up with