Are the Ponies Abusing Spike's Health?

[bunnybuzki 45]

I ask because they literally halted his maturity. They won't let him grow up because they don't like dragon-tudes.

 

Im worried because the two episodes about Spike's dragonness teach lessons that you should just be less like your biology and more like ponies. But Spike can't help that he is a dragon! 

 

Of course, Pony values are about sharing and caring, but dragons clearly value hoarding and killing innocent eggs. Is this because right now, dragons are evil, or are the ponies too narrow-minded to just accept this is a different culture with differing values? (Values that granted, threaten the lives of other species around these dragons)

 

Will Spike ever grow up or is he doomed to be a baby forever? Is that really unhealthy? Can the ponies ever accept that he is not a pony? 

 

What the heck happened to that Phoenix Spike kept for himself?

 

Yeah so...dragons aren't real and clearly do not actually represent another human culture or anything, I'm not saying the show's creators are racist. This is seriously just a humorous observation I've made about a child's show that didn't have a need to delve into such an issue. Besides I think the show covered Racism is Bad with Zecora.

 

Spike is my least favorite character but I still find this piece so intriguing and just want to know about how he came to be nothing more than a test-experiment at magic school! Seriously, would they let any applicant experiment on a PONY baby?!

 

My apologies if this is over-posted. I searched for this topic and didn't find anything.

[Leafeon 2,701]

Dragons age much slower then ponies. So the fact Twi got him as a younger baby when she was a filly, and now he's still a baby, just a bit older, when she's an adult, doesn't seem like a big deal. Not to mention Spike is pretty much perfectly content with his life.

 

On another note, what /did/ happen to the pheonix? Continuity? Why you leave?

[SagasaPony 122]

Well, when you say maturity, I'm guessing you mean his biological aging. Mentally speaking, Spike is a lot more mature and level-headed than some of the Mane 6, including Twilight. 

 

The show's pretty ambiguous about it, but I think being greedy simply accelerates the physical growth of dragons in this universe. Think about it, none of the dragons (besides Spike) we've ever seen on the show act like they have a shred of empathy or responsibility. This makes me think that once dragons are hatched, they're thrust all alone into a dog-eat-dog world where only the biggest and strongest survive to adulthood. Since hoarding items has a direct correlation to physical growth, the most greedy dragons would be the most successful and that tendency would be passed down onto succeeding generations.

 

Spike is literally fighting against his own nature and instincts, and the only reason he can do so is because he has loving and supporting friends who act pretty much like the family that dragons in the wild never get to have. It's not actually halting his physical growth, Spike is noticeably bigger than when he was first hatched by Twilight as a filly.

 

Unlike the other dragons who take the fast road to adulthood by hoarding things and becoming no better than beasts, Spike will have the time to develop into a responsible and mature adult, perhaps one capable of uniting and civilizing the wild dragons as their king.

 

...man, someone needs to write fanfiction about that.

[Wubsie 1,123]

They are trying to keep him nice and calm. They aren't harming him. They just don't want him to be a mean greedy dragon.

Just look at Spike, he's a nice little dragon. I don't think it would be right if he grew up to be mean after all of those friendship lessons.

It just wouldn't fit him. Spike has a nice, caring, and hardworking personality. Not a mean, greedy, thief personality.

He's obviously different from the other dragons. So it wouldn't be right. 

TL;DR: Nice epic Spike > Mean greedy Spike

Edited December 17, 2012 by Double D

[Starswirl the Trixie 974]

I ask because they literally halted his maturity. They won't let him grow up because they don't like dragon-tudes.

 

Im worried because the two episodes about Spike's dragonness teach lessons that you should just be less like your biology and more like ponies. But Spike can't help that he is a dragon! 

 

Of course, Pony values are about sharing and caring, but dragons clearly value hoarding and killing innocent eggs. Is this because right now, dragons are evil, or are the ponies too narrow-minded to just accept this is a different culture with differing values? (Values that granted, threaten the lives of other species around these dragons)

 

Will Spike ever grow up or is he doomed to be a baby forever? Is that really unhealthy? Can the ponies ever accept that he is not a pony? 

 

What the heck happened to that Phoenix Spike kept for himself?

 

Yeah so...dragons aren't real and clearly do not actually represent another human culture or anything, I'm not saying the show's creators are racist. This is seriously just a humorous observation I've made about a child's show that didn't have a need to delve into such an issue. Besides I think the show covered Racism is Bad with Zecora.

 

Spike is my least favorite character but I still find this piece so intriguing and just want to know about how he came to be nothing more than a test-experiment at magic school! Seriously, would they let any applicant experiment on a PONY baby?!

 

My apologies if this is over-posted. I searched for this topic and didn't find anything.

 

Well, is this really a surprise?

 

He was taken from dragons after birth under very suspicious circumstances.  He appears to work as a slave for a member of an aristocratic family.  And ponies abuse him and treat him as sub-pony.  Equestria isn't exactly kind to Spike.

[bunnybuzki 45]

Well, is this really a surprise?

 

He was taken from dragons after birth under very suspicious circumstances.  He appears to work as a slave for a member of an aristocratic family.  And ponies abuse him and treat him as sub-pony.  Equestria isn't exactly kind to Spike.

Actually I didn't even think of the fact he was basically gifted to a foal as her servant/slave! Some dark stuff going on here lol. Maybe he's merely an experimental attempt to "civilize" the "savage" dragon race? poo

[Majesticyoshi 30]

Considering previous posts, perhaps it wouldn't matter in the slightest if they mistreat Spike. Because they'll all be dead when Spike is older.

 

All of them.

 

He'll reflect back on all the times he was mistreated.

 

Then he will laugh silently, to himself.

 

Or maybe not, lol.

[Zygen 6,065]

I don't think that just because Spike wasn't allowed to grow into a full grown dragon and stay that way(And wreck the town while hes at it) that it harms his health, I think that dragons just have their growth kinda accelerated from greed. I think he grows still, just alot slower then ponys do.(Since he lives longer it would only make sense.)

I don't think its racist or anything either, I mean hes totally fine with it first of all, plus dragons do seem to be kinda jerks.

 

Besides who doesn't love little spikey wikey?

[x3z8 56]

Considering previous posts, perhaps it wouldn't matter in the slightest if they mistreat Spike. Because they'll all be dead when Spike is older.

 

All of them.

 

He'll reflect back on all the times he was mistreated.

 

Then he will laugh silently, to himself.

 

Or maybe not, lol.

Well then, that's an interesting idea, yet incredibly messed up. I also can't imagine Spike turning evil even after the hoarding episode.

[Majesticyoshi 30]

Well then, that's an interesting idea, yet incredibly messed up. I also can't imagine Spike turning evil even after the hoarding episode.

 

Quite, yes. But considering he takes some time to age, anything can happen in the years of his life.

 

Unless if he stays in Ponyville, that would reduce chances of an evil personality developing.

[x3z8 56]

Quite, yes. But considering he takes some time to age, anything can happen in the years of his life.

 

Unless if he stays in Ponyville, that would reduce chances of an evil personality developing.

Well I don't see any reason for him to leave Ponyville anytime soon, if ever. And as long as he's near Twilight I'm sure he'll be just fine.

[bunnybuzki 45]

I wasn't clear that he was still growing after the Excess episode. But it is interesting, and maybe that's why Celestia had Twilight bring him along on her friendship lessons, to have that rub off on dragon kind in several hundred years

[windy_prance 114]

http://mlpforums.com/topic/41746-my-theory-on-spikes-growth-spurt-in-secret-of-my-excess/#entry989442

 

Iam thinking about this issue in conjunction to my fan theory that mother dragons teach their babies at a young age to have a VERY high standard when hoarding treasures. As well as needing YEARS for an individual dragon to stash enough gold and gem to obtain the greed needed to fully grow up. (Look at link above)

 

If that's the case then yes. Ponies are preventing Spike from growing into a dragon. HOWEVER I don't think Spike's fate is to become a dragon at all. I think in Equestria, dragons who are raised without greed in their hearts grow into something else.

 

I believe that Spike will turn into not a dragon but a Qilin or Kirin depending on which lore you follow. A Qilin is a Chinese mythic creature that has the head of a dragon but the body of hooved animal. (usually a horse, an ox, or a deer)

 

Unlike a fearsome evil dragon, a Qilin is a peaceful creature that doesn't eat flesh. Qilin are gentle creatures who never harm the innocent and become fearsome only when punishing the wicked. Also some stories call a Qilin the sacred pet (or familiar) of the deities.

 

It makes sense to me considering the MLP staff decided on Spike's one-sided crush on Rarity, a pony if this is the case. How else are they going to get together unless Spike turns into a HOOVED dragon like a Qilin?

Edited December 17, 2012 by windy_prance

[dekutree64 711]

Well I don't see any reason for him to leave Ponyville anytime soon, if ever. And as long as he's near Twilight I'm sure he'll be just fine.

That's the problem... in less than 100 years, Twilight will be dead (unless the whole alicorn Twilight thing happens). Dragons take 100 year naps, and so presumably live for thousands of years. Twilight's life will only be a distant childhood memory to him, in the end.

 

My guess is that he'd go off to live with other dragons, but remain more pony-like at heart, and keep in close touch with Celestia and Luna as well. I'm not sure if he'd become a king or anything, but probably would get more dragons interacting with ponies in positive ways.

 

But as for his current treatment... I don't think they're hurting him. Most dragons don't seem to act like wild animals, so I think his hoarding and rampaging in Secret of My Excess was sort of a crazed frenzy, and he would have calmed down eventually and regretted it just the same. So it's good that they stopped him as soon as they could, to minimize the damage and thus guilt. And even when he was loving hanging out with other dragons in Dragon Quest, he made the choice all on his own that smashing eggs was wrong. So... I think it's just like with humans adopting a baby from another culture, the kid tends to grow up acting more like their adoptive parents than the people from their home country.

 

And I don't think his work quite counts as slave labor, either, since I'm pretty sure Twilight would let him go if he ever wants to leave. Not to mention how hard he fought Owlowiscius to keep his job. More like an implicit payment system. After all, he has food and housing, which are the top two expenses, and healthcare too since Twilight took him to a doctor and vet in Secret of My Excess

 

Here's another interesting thing I've pondered with respect to his hatching... if that's the standard test to get into the school for gifted unicorns, then why don't we see any other dragons participating in pony society? I like the theory that the dragon egg is something they'd had for a very long time, and prospective students were never meant to actually succeed at the hatching. Twilight did do an age spell on him immediately afterward, and in Magic Duel said that can only be done by the highest level unicorns, so Celestia wasn't kidding when she said that was the most raw talent she'd seen.

 

Giving Spike to Twilight as an assistant/child was probably Celestia's decision, because what else would they do with him? Plus it would help develop Twilight's maturity, which would be important from a political perspective since Twilight could conceivably take over the world when she gains full control of her power.

[Arcanel 3,041]

Im worried because the two episodes about Spike's dragonness teach lessons that you should just be less like your biology and more like ponies. But Spike can't help that he is a dragon! 

Now there I must disagree. The chapter deals about not abandoning the place where you grew up and had friends and to follow your heart. To choose in the same way Rainbow did when she saw the real truth about Gilda back in Griffon the Brush-Off. How DO we know if how the teenage dragons is the "normal" way. For all we know, they are just teenagers and they are just that, not some sort of dragon way of being. If Spike had grown up with the dragons, the episode would have rounded up to him staying with the dragons, because that was where he grew up.

 

The growth spike given by greed is probably the unnatural way to grow...WITHOUT being able to develop much mind. They may probably let Spike keep stuff little by little as he grows up, so that he can learn about self-control, and then grow to be a nice but smart dragon. And if grows strong...then oh man, prepare yourself FOR HERE COMES SPIKE!

[Moon Rat 4,772]

In all honesty, I wouldn't say they have halted his maturity, in fact, I would say he is MORE mature that any of his Dragon brethern BECAUSE of him being raised by the ponies instead of those Dragons

[Spring Storm 276]

Here's another interesting thing I've pondered with respect to his hatching... if that's the standard test to get into the school for gifted unicorns, then why don't we see any other dragons participating in pony society? I like the theory that the dragon egg is something they'd had for a very long time, and prospective students were never meant to actually succeed at the hatching. Twilight did do an age spell on him immediately afterward, and in Magic Duel said that can only be done by the highest level unicorns, so Celestia wasn't kidding when she said that was the most raw talent she'd seen.

 

Giving Spike to Twilight as an assistant/child was probably Celestia's decision, because what else would they do with him? Plus it would help develop Twilight's maturity, which would be important from a political perspective since Twilight could conceivably take over the world when she gains full control of her power.

 

I agree that hatching a dragon egg can't be the standard test. Spike probably knows most of the ponies in Ponyville, and none of them have ever mentioned that they have a dragon. Celestia was probably waiting until she found somepony who she thought would be the right one to raise Spike, and Twilight turned out to be the one.

 

Also, I don't think they're hindering Spike's growth. He's just growing up more slowly because he isn't a greedy jerk, and being a greedy jerk is the fastest way to grow up for a dragon. Spike will grow up, just not super fast.

[Night Shine 767]

I read somewhere, in some comic I think, that while dragons can grow through greed and generally do, some grow through love and mature into much wiser and more loving beings.

 

There is exactly no canon proof for this, but it's somepony's fanon and now my fanon, and I think it does Spike justice. :3

[x3z8 56]

That's the problem... in less than 100 years, Twilight will be dead (unless the whole alicorn Twilight thing happens). Dragons take 100 year naps, and so presumably live for thousands of years. Twilight's life will only be a distant childhood memory to him, in the end.

 

My guess is that he'd go off to live with other dragons, but remain more pony-like at heart, and keep in close touch with Celestia and Luna as well. I'm not sure if he'd become a king or anything, but probably would get more dragons interacting with ponies in positive ways.

 

But as for his current treatment... I don't think they're hurting him. Most dragons don't seem to act like wild animals, so I think his hoarding and rampaging in Secret of My Excess was sort of a crazed frenzy, and he would have calmed down eventually and regretted it just the same. So it's good that they stopped him as soon as they could, to minimize the damage and thus guilt. And even when he was loving hanging out with other dragons in Dragon Quest, he made the choice all on his own that smashing eggs was wrong. So... I think it's just like with humans adopting a baby from another culture, the kid tends to grow up acting more like their adoptive parents than the people from their home country.

 

And I don't think his work quite counts as slave labor, either, since I'm pretty sure Twilight would let him go if he ever wants to leave. Not to mention how hard he fought Owlowiscius to keep his job. More like an implicit payment system. After all, he has food and housing, which are the top two expenses, and healthcare too since Twilight took him to a doctor and vet in Secret of My Excess

 

Here's another interesting thing I've pondered with respect to his hatching... if that's the standard test to get into the school for gifted unicorns, then why don't we see any other dragons participating in pony society? I like the theory that the dragon egg is something they'd had for a very long time, and prospective students were never meant to actually succeed at the hatching. Twilight did do an age spell on him immediately afterward, and in Magic Duel said that can only be done by the highest level unicorns, so Celestia wasn't kidding when she said that was the most raw talent she'd seen.

 

Giving Spike to Twilight as an assistant/child was probably Celestia's decision, because what else would they do with him? Plus it would help develop Twilight's maturity, which would be important from a political perspective since Twilight could conceivably take over the world when she gains full control of her power.

Star Swirl the Bearded's telescope that's a long post! Impressive my friend. Good point that Twilight won't live forever. I would assume that Celestia or Luna would take over Spike's care, especially since he is a useful messenger service. XD

[RainbowDash1013 11]

I think they are not abusing spike. There just raising him in a way that most dragons are not raised. A baby's first few months are the most importent becuase if you treat it bad it will grow up to be bad. If you treat it well it will grow up good. Simple as that.

[~Asuka <3~ 867]

I really doubt it.  A dragon's age or maturity will take time to develop.  The ponies just want the best for him; I'd assume that hurting Spike would be the last thing on their minds.  As seen in the teenage dragon episode, Spike is different than most dragons.  Whether this be because of his upbringings or simply because he is different remains a question, but I'd assume that, at heart, he is simply different.  I'd hypothesize that the ponies see his differences, and embrace them.  

 

To answer your second question, I strongly believe that Spike will grow up one day.  He will have to leave the ponies behind, unfortunately.  

 

I do love this question though, it's very inquisitive.  Really, this is one of the most thought provoking questions that I've answered.  

[bunnybuzki 45]

I'm glad that spike belongs to twilight and that he is happy with his life, and it is fun to think about where he will be in thousands of years. Theories on how dragons age and grow is interesting, and I wonder if it will be settled - you guys know more than I do, but have they explicitly addressed this on the show or is it an assumed thing that he's still growing? It brings up questions of nature vs nurture for sure but also, and maybe more importantly, cultural differences. A dragon hoard to a dragon probably isn't seen of as greedy, and while it hurts ponies, it wouldn't hurt other dragons, so the behavior is only adjusted depending on the society you're hanging out with  Just like aggression can be seen as heroic through a different lense, or modesty seen as weak.

 

But again, it was a humorous observation to begin with, that dragons are so bad, eh let's have Spike himself say he's a pony and everyone else smile about it! I wasn't really too worried 

I never thought this question would get these answers! That's really cool, thanks guys!

[Coachskau 5]

He's certainly very mature. Most likely raising a dragon with a pony's mindset is unprecedented in Equestria. I'd like to see windy_prance's post become a reality, in the series finale or something.

 

Also, thank you, windy_prance, for educating me on the Qlin. I do so enjoy mythology.

[Krouton 13]

I just though dragons aged REALLY slowly. Spike is almost as old as Twilight, and he's still a baby dragon. He has grown a little bit since he hatched from the egg, so I don't think his aging has frozen. I can't explain Spike's growth spurt in "Secret of my Excess". How many dragons grow like this? In "Dragon Quest", you see teenage and adult dragons, and I assume they're growing slowly like Spike is; or are they growing in spurts driven by greed?

 

[dreaper 136]

Talking about Spikey is one of my favorite things I like to do in this fandom, so I'm going to share my thoughts...

 

I don't think that Spike is living it up as he is right now, he is a deep character with a lot of issues. First, I think a lot of people take for granted that he is from a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES than the ponies, that alone makes his situation more deep and complex than the "adopted human baby from another culture" example that someone posted earlier. As a dragon, Spike will have different wants and needs from the ponies, and if he keeps denying his nature, it will backfire when he grows up and have to face more instincts that he isn't prepare to deal. You don't fight nature, you learn from it and adapt to it, otherwise you will lose. 

 

Another aspect of Spike character that I came to realize after a little time of thinking is that he has low self esteem with probably an inferiority complex, why?... First, He is surrounded with ultra cool ponies, that can wield the Elements of Harmony, raise the sun, do sonic rainbooms and use lots of cool magic and second is that he has zero pride on being a dragon, to the point that he can probably be ashamed of being one... is sad, but after all, why he should think any different? All he has learned from his own species is that they are dumb greedy evil jerks.

 

About the way which Twilight treats Spike: I think some people give her way too much credit in that aspect. Twilight is mediocre as a caretaker. Sometimes she treats him as her little brother but other times she treats him as her slave. She is not good nor bad, just mediocre. Their relationship needs more development in the show.

 

And I think that the greed growth was a magic mutation, something not natural.