Tumblr post I think I should bring to your attention

[DusK 1,264]

Except personal taste should be the biggest issue. It's not what you think is good, it's not what some random critic thinks it good, it's what everyone as a whole thinks is good.

 

I've seen where elitism in judging fan-work goes, it isn't a pretty place. It's full of hypocrisy and the same people getting through over and over while the little guys are hardly given a chance to reach their potential.

Personal taste shouldn't be a factor, let alone the "biggest issue". Popularity and quality aren't consistently synonymous, and quality should be what brings a track into the Hall of Fame.

 

Once again, look at any site that uses a popularity system to decide what goes on the front page. Good music all too often gets pushed to the sidelines, and bad music gets more popularity because it's "what people like". That process just doesn't work.

 

The Human Abstracts of this fandom, making objectively better music than the Justin Biebers of the fandom, shouldn't get sidelined simply because more people happen to like the Justin Biebers more. That is what creates an endless cycle of "the same people getting through over and over while the little guys are hardly given a chance to reach their potential", because that already-famous mediocrity will continuously beat out newcomers primarily due to prior establishment.

 

On top of that, creating an objective standard gives newcomers a goal, a motivation for self-improvement. That, coupled with detailed critique from those more knowledgeable, actually fosters creative growth.

Edited August 14, 2013 by DusK

[Paianis 488]

Maybe we should stop trying to live in our own separate universe and attempt to achieve more traction on places like SoundCloud, Mixposure and YouTube. I mean, the listener has already got all they need on those sites, why do we need one that happens not to have the other stuff the consumer isn't interested in? What is the incentive to pop over to a site like Pony.FM?

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Personal taste shouldn't be a factor, let alone the "biggest issue". Popularity and quality aren't consistently synonymous, and quality should be what brings a track into the Hall of Fame.

 

Once again, look at any site that uses a popularity system to decide what goes on the front page. Good music all too often gets pushed to the sidelines, and bad music gets more popularity because it's "what people like". That process just doesn't work.

 

The Human Abstracts of this fandom, making objectively better music than the Justin Biebers of the fandom, shouldn't get sidelined simply because more people happen to like the Justin Biebers more. That is what creates an endless cycle of "the same people getting through over and over while the little guys are hardly given a chance to reach their potential", because that already-famous mediocrity will continuously beat out newcomers primarily due to prior establishment.

 

On top of that, creating an objective standard gives newcomers a goal, a motivation for self-improvement. That, coupled with detailed critique from those more knowledgeable, actually fosters creative growth.

 

You're missing the entire point, good isn't worth a damn if it's only "good" to a small minority of people. This right here is what I hate about music elitism. A song could be perfect on a technical level and still sound like compete shit("skillful" Black Metal and such is a good example of this, IMO). None of that matters if the song doesn't sound good. 

 

If fact, there's some music that it's flaws add to it and it's emotion.

 

May I suggest a middle ground,both a "editor's choice" and "user's choice" sections so everyone can find what they want. 

[DusK 1,264]

A song could be perfect on a technical level and still sound like compete shit("skillful" Black Metal and such is a good example of this, IMO). None of that matters if the song doesn't sound good. 

 

Subjectively. And this right here is why a judge-based music system is needed in the brony fandom right now more than ever.

 

We have enough sites perpetuating bronypop. We don't need to make Pony.fm yet another.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Subjectively. And this right here is why a judge-based music system is needed in the brony fandom right now more than ever.

 

We have enough sites perpetuating bronypop. We don't need to make Pony.fm yet another.

 

Nor to do we need any more elitism and snobbery. I don't care how technically advanced a song is, or how it uses perfect music theory. It can still be a boring piece of crap.

 

There are subjective issues to be dealt with, like shitty sound quality, bad mixing, blaring out the damn vocals by cranking the instrumentation to high(this is a major problem with amateur music), but under all that enjoyment is completely subjective and weather it's a good on a base level is up to the listener once it reaches a point where it's played and sung right(and even then "right" can be very subjective depending on a person threshold for mistakes or flaws) 

 

Don't get me wrong, there's bad music, but if something is that bad, everyone is going to know. There is no beating around the bush on truly bad music. 

Edited August 14, 2013 by Shoboni

[DusK 1,264]

There are subjective issues to be dealt with, like shitty sound quality, bad mixing, blaring out the damn vocals by cranking the instrumentation to high(this is a major problem with amateur music), but enjoyment is completely subjective and weather it's a good on a base level is up to the listener.

 

I think we just discovered that you don't understand objectivity vs. subjectivity. So I guess there's really no point in carrying on this conversation until you learn the difference.

 

I will leave off, though, by pointing out that disrespecting an entire genre based solely on personal taste is more "elitism and snobbery" than anything you've criticized in this thread.

[nlaq 180]

Maybe we should stop trying to live in our own separate universe and attempt to achieve more traction on places like SoundCloud, Mixposure and YouTube. I mean, the listener has already got all they need on those sites, why do we need one that happens not to have the other stuff the consumer isn't interested in? What is the incentive to pop over to a site like Pony.FM?

 

The idea of PFM is to create a community - like MLPForums. However, to build a community around music, a site should have features conducive to that. PFM is the embodiment of everything people would want out of a pony-music-specific website, and many of the features (both planned and already implement) are effective towards that goal.

 

PFM also aims to be an archive of pony music - but one that is legitimate and doesn't scour the Internet for low quality tracks and steal them. That is something that SC and YT simply cannot do.

 

You're missing the entire point, good isn't worth a damn if it's only "good" to a small minority of people. This right here is what I hate about music elitism. A song could be perfect on a technical level and still sound like compete shit("skillful" Black Metal and such is a good example of this, IMO). None of that matters if the song doesn't sound good. 

 

If fact, there's some music that it's flaws add to it and it's emotion.

 

May I suggest a middle ground,both a "editor's choice" and "user's choice" sections so everyone can find what they want. 

 

Black Metal is a "good example" of complete shit? So if we do have judges, they aren't allowed to rate music highly if you personally don't like it?

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

I think we just discovered that you don't understand objectivity vs. subjectivity. So I guess there's really no point in carrying on this conversation until you learn the difference.

 

I will leave off, though, by pointing out that disrespecting an entire genre based solely on personal taste is more "elitism and snobbery" than anything you've criticized in this thread.

 

You do know, "IMO" means "In My Opinion?". A perfect example of differences in taste. You obviously like it, but I think it's garbage. Neither one of us are wrong. 

 

And I know exactly what I'm saying, enjoyment of music is entirely subjective(subjective, as the quality of work is based slowely on each persons personal enjoyment of it) . I may spend 10min tearing a song apart but you love it, and vice versa.

 

There comes a point where "quality" is no longer objective. Sure, you have that guy with a three string, out of tune guitar that can't carry a tune in a bucket, but cases that extreme or few and far between and are go down in flames pretty quick. 

 

I'm of the group that says all the technical skill and complexity in the word isn't worth a damn if I don't enjoy hearing the music. 

 

 

Black Metal is a "good example" of complete shit? So if we do have judges, they aren't allowed to rate music highly if you personally don't like it?

 

You just made my point for me. Not everyone likes the the same things, so you can't have one group of people going "this is what's good for everyone"(and I re-instate, "IMO" means "In my opinion)". 

 

That's why I suggested having both a section for user's choice and editor's/critic's choice. That way there's a balanced viewpoint from both sides on the home page. Maybe you could even get critics with expertise in different genres for a even more balanced view.  A metal critic, a pop critic, a folk critic, ect and have picks from each of them in the editor's box. 

Edited August 14, 2013 by Shoboni

[DusK 1,264]

You just made my point for me. Not everyone likes the the same things, so you can't have one group of people going "this is what's good for everyone"(and I re-instate, "IMO" means "In my opinion)".

Once again, you're assuming that music judges will critique based on personal taste. They won't. There are objective factors to music (like production values, performance technique, composition ability), and there are subjective factors to music (like genre, instrumentation style, song/lyric/conceptual message). A song is good when that set of objective factors is achieved, a song is liked when that set of subjective factors are achieved for the listener.

 

The Pony.fm Hall of Fame shouldn't focus solely on what's liked; it should spotlight, without discrimination, what is good.

 

As for "one group of people going 'this is what's good for everyone'", I'm gonna copypasta from another post I made because after so many months, I'm kinda tired of explaining this kind of stuff over and over again:

 

No decent music critic would let those biases and that degree of subjectivity impact his judging. A person judging music based on what he likes is different than a person judging music on whether it's actually good or bad.

 

I'll give an example. So far, I have judged 10 pieces of music for Brony Music Spotlight. Of the four I have rejected, I personally enjoyed two of them. Of the six I have passed, there are only three that I would actually listen to more than once. A good music critic has the ability to view and judge a track with objectivity and remove themselves from subjective viewpoints to a degree that most people aren't able to. Those are the judges you want, because it's those judges that best set a standard by which music can be measured.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Once again, you're assuming that music judges will critique based on personal taste. They won't. There are objective factors to music (like production values, performance technique, composition ability), and there are subjective factors to music (like genre, instrumentation style, song/lyric/conceptual message). A song is good when that set of objective factors is achieved, a song is liked when that set of subjective factors are achieved for the listener.

 

The Pony.fm Hall of Fame shouldn't focus solely on what's liked; it should spotlight, without discrimination, what is good.

 

As for "one group of people going 'this is what's good for everyone'", I'm gonna copypasta from another post I made because after so many months, I'm kinda tired of explaining this kind of stuff over and over again:

 

No decent music critic would let those biases and that degree of subjectivity impact his judging. A person judging music based on what he likes is different than a person judging music on whether it's actually good or bad.

 

I'll give an example. So far, I have judged 10 pieces of music for Brony Music Spotlight. Of the four I have rejected, I personally enjoyed two of them. Of the six I have passed, there are only three that I would actually listen to more than once. A good music critic has the ability to view and judge a track with objectivity and remove themselves from subjective viewpoints to a degree that most people aren't able to. Those are the judges you want, because it's those judges that best set a standard by which music can be measured.

 

I just that having multiple people giving subjective opinions is better than judging it on a merely technical level. You run into heaps of "I guess there's nothing wrong with it, so it passes." I rather have a team of people each presenting their picks and talking about why they like them, alongside another section for what's popular. 

 

It creates a balanced presentation of both sides of the coin. Showing both a critical and general public view of what's going on side by side.  

Edited August 14, 2013 by Shoboni

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,520]

May I suggest a middle ground,both a "editor's choice" and "user's choice" sections so everyone can find what they want. 

 

Looking through this thread, it appears no one made it clear that a "user's choice"-type system for featuring music is planned to exist side-by-side with the human-curated "hall of fame".

 

The curated hall of fame will add an element of critical, editorial review to the brony music community that is largely absent out there right now. The intent is to have a judging panel composed of musicians with diverse interests and specialties, and prevent any one of them from having the direct ability to approve or reject a track.

 

A more traditional system based on the popularity of a track with users will serve a different purpose: showcasing the music that the mass public is listening to and enjoying. The tracks that are in this list (which will likely take the form of a "top 20" or something of the sort) will be cycled out on a regular basis to correspond with listener behaviour; data like track plays, downloads, views, favourites/likes/brohoofs, comments, and all kinds of other info Pony.fm' collects can be combined with heat algorithms to put together an automated list that is, effectively, curated entirely by the community.

 

We can and will provide both of these experiences on Pony.fm, and they will both add to the value of the site.

[Shift 4,271]

@,

 

Name one website that focuses on MLP music alone.

 

The only one I know of is Pony.FM. 

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Looking through this thread, it appears no one made it clear that a "user's choice"-type system for featuring music is planned to exist side-by-side with the human-curated "hall of fame".

 

The curated hall of fame will add an element of critical, editorial review to the brony music community that is largely absent out there right now. The intent is to have a judging panel composed of musicians with diverse interests and specialties, and prevent any one of them from having the direct ability to approve or reject a track.

 

A more traditional system based on the popularity of a track with users will serve a different purpose: showcasing the music that the mass public is listening to and enjoying. The tracks that are in this list (which will likely take the form of a "top 20" or something of the sort) will be cycled out on a regular basis to correspond with listener behaviour; data like track plays, downloads, views, favourites/likes/brohoofs, comments, and all kinds of other info Pony.fm' collects can be combined with heat algorithms to put together an automated list that is, effectively, curated entirely by the community.

 

We can and will provide both of these experiences on Pony.fm, and they will both add to the value of the site.

 

Sounds like a plan. Might be good to have a archive of previous top 20 charts to go back through as well. 

[DusK 1,264]

@,

 

Name one website that focuses on MLP music alone.

 

The only one I know of is Pony.FM. 

 

EqDMusic.com.

[Paianis 488]

EQBeats.org

[nlaq 180]

http://eqreverb.com/

[DusK 1,264]

Regardless, it's not about other sites doing brony music. It's about the fact that other sites aren't doing it nearly as well as what Pony.fm hopes to achieve.
 
Some of the key incentives should (and likely will, if all goes well in development) be:

• A community-based experience where both musicians and fans can come together
• A place where a person's brony music can be hosted and supplied without limits
• A guaranteed and unbiased way to gain exposure and recognition for one's brony music if they have exceptional talent, something that not a single other site on the entire Internet does

SoundCloud requires a premium plan for a lot of the features Pony.fm provides for free. Bandcamp as well. YouTube, despite being used by most brony musicians as a primary outlet for their music (myself included), doesn't actually handle audio that well at all, and leaves users with a necessity for off-site hosting (which, again, is often Bandcamp or SoundCloud, each with some pretty strict limits).

 

Pony.fm, as it stands, really is the best place right now for a brony musician to host and distribute their brony music. Give it time, and it'll get better with the addition of new features, especially in regards to the listener experience.

Edited August 15, 2013 by DusK

[Shift 4,271]

@@DusK,

 

>except EQD sucks 

[DusK 1,264]

@@DusK,

 

>except EQD sucks

 

Yes, it does. Both the main site and EqDMusic.com are terrible. But you asked if there was another site that does just brony music, so I answered.

 

Now if you had said "Name one website that focuses on MLP music alone, and does it well," then yeah, the only one would be Pony.fm.

[Shift 4,271]

@@DusK,

 

I knew, I was just joking. I can never resist to poke fun at EQD and it's makers when I have the chance.

[Scootalove 10,684]

I think it is better to respect quality over quantity when it comes to an artist's talent especially in brony music, but there are other artists that just get reputation not on their talent but on their popularity. Sorry, if I'm rambling. If a artist's work isn't that great, a person's opinion should be more explained than in just an opinion with one word.

[ASocialyAwkwardPony 299]

If the simple thought of someone hosting a website where artists can freely upload their songs without quality control offends someone so much they quit music all togheter I can't help but not feel any sympathy what so ever.

Having Pony.fm be open to everypony who want to share some tunes is awesome and something that is needed since the main alternatives are pretty elitistic and nasty about lesser known artists it seems, no matter the quality.

[PhonyBrony 275]

If the simple thought of someone hosting a website where artists can freely upload their songs without quality control offends someone so much they quit music all togheter I can't help but not feel any sympathy what so ever.

 

Having Pony.fm be open to everypony who want to share some tunes is awesome and something that is needed since the main alternatives are pretty elitistic and nasty about lesser known artists it seems, no matter the quality.

The issue we're trying to address is not that there is no quality control. I agree 100% with what you said, but the issue is that someone who wants to listen to music from people who are not necessarily famous will end up having to skip a lot of songs that they can't enjoy. The thing about famous artists is not that they're overplayed (although that is an issue, its not what I'm talking about) but that if you enjoy one of their songs, you can count on enjoying the rest of their songs.

 

The fact that the original poster of the tumblr post spent the time to listen to the music on the website from somebody he had never heard of makes me feel like he's alright with anyone posting on the site.

[ASocialyAwkwardPony 299]

The issue we're trying to address is not that there is no quality control. I agree 100% with what you said, but the issue is that someone who wants to listen to music from people who are not necessarily famous will end up having to skip a lot of songs that they can't enjoy. The thing about famous artists is not that they're overplayed (although that is an issue, its not what I'm talking about) but that if you enjoy one of their songs, you can count on enjoying the rest of their songs.

 

The fact that the original poster of the tumblr post spent the time to listen to the music on the website from somebody he had never heard of makes me feel like he's alright with anyone posting on the site.

 

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying all songs by a artist have to be of the exact same genre, quality and style? Because variety is the spice of life after all, and no one can only make good things, the best of artists have at least 1 song that fall under their normal quality level or outside of their normal things and that is not a negative.

Edited May 16, 2016 by ASocialyAwkwardPony

[DusK 1,264]

The issue we're trying to address is not that there is no quality control.

Here's what I don't get: How is this suddenly an issue for them? No site to date has any reliable form of quality control for brony music. So why single out Pony.fm? Where are their posts in the same vein regarding EqD, EFR, EQBeats, etc? I agree that there should be a way to feature talent, but I'd hope these people are equally as prepared to post criticism aginst literally every single site out there that handles brony music in some way.

Edited August 16, 2013 by DusK