Why hate Mary Sues?

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Because holy sh*t, they're god damn awful in every single possible way.

 

What? You think I'm being harsh?

 

Look at this dude and it's description and try not to cringe.

http://darksswarm.deviantart.com/art/Nightmare-Terror-v2-477505143?ga_submit_new=10%253A1408774115

[Stone Cold Applejack 381]

They're overpowered and have 0 flaws. They ruin the story's plot line to the point you just can't read the rp/fanfic/etc. anymore.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Shadowbolt192,

DBZ OCs? Do you mean these? Yeah, DBZ OCs have a tendency to suck. I have not seen a single good one

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/247/7/8/mary_sue_invades_dbz_1_by_akanexd-d2y10om.jpg

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/249/2/7/mary_sue_invades_dbz_2_by_akanexd-d2y6r6f.jpg

http://www.lisa-rye.com/dbatgs/ComethMarySueColour.jpg

[Shadowbolt192 3]

Yes @Evil Dragon Master. There are more though.

[Celli 4,339]

Well people don't like them  generally because they're overpowered, flawless, or can solve problems without effort. They don't have character depth.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

A Mary Sue can completely murder an RP. Believe me, I have seen it happen. Once I was on another forum and there was a futuristic RP running, and it was just starting to get good when this moron came in with a super duper fairy Sue. The RP took a fatal hit and couldn't recover, so we had to abandon it and start again.

 

Also, not all MLP Mary Sues are alicorns, and not all alicorns are Mary Sues. It can be done, to create an alicorn OC who is well rounded, has flaws and has to work for their happy ending. You just have to put a bit of effort into it so that your character doesn't become overpowered. Believe me, the worst MLP Sues I have ever seen were an earth pony mare and a pegasus stallion. The earth pony was able to do magic and fly without wings, and the pegasus could do magic (with zero explanation, making me wonder if the author had actually bothered to watch the show at all) and was paired up with Fluttershy, who had been character butchered making her into a damsel in distress. It's not the breed of pony which makes a Sue, it's the person who created the character.

[SilverStarApple 849]

Because Mary Sues are boring characters who can only harm the story/rp they are in. They are lame, boringly flawless or annoyingly flawed(This isn't a DnD character sheet, taking low-impact character flaws like "Puts foot in mouth often" and "Is cutely clumsy for the sake of a joke but not when the plot needs her to be nonclumsy" DOES NOT give you the points needed to go Alicorn godmode), and I've found most sue writers are mentally unstable. Though that might just be the ones I've seen so far, and there might just be ordinary sue-writers who are just really bad at writing and don't have any real mental issues at all.

 

Quick note: Being an Alicorn does not automatically equal Mary Sue. I've seen sueish Earth Ponies and Pegasi, and especially Unicorns.

[Smokie-Horse 83]

A very interesting thread. For me it comes down to how they don't surprise me, and how they're basically impossible to defeat because they either have powers that make them undefeatable, or they can grow new powers that allow them to win instantly, or they have ridiculously helpful friends that can win anything for them. Basically, as a guy who likes his villains, I don't like OP heroes.

 

But there's really nothing wrong with a Mary Sue. It's just a type of character, and like any other type of character, there are good Mary Sues and bad Mary Sues. Like Harry Potter; most people agree he's a decent character, despite being pretty perfect when you think about it.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

  On 2014-10-05 at 1:07 PM, Smokie-Horse said:

Like Harry Potter; most people agree he's a decent character, despite being pretty perfect when you think about it.

No, the very fact that he has to get saved constantly and that he's nowhere near the most powerful wizard discounts him from that

 

One problem with a Mary Sue character is that it makes fight scenes pointless since they'll just kick ass and never get hurt beyond a flesh wound, which ended up helping them. There was one story where someone was doused in their weakness(salt to counteract ice and lightning powers). They proceed to reveal they're a sword master and thus, the weakness is pointless

[Smokie-Horse 83]

  On 2014-10-05 at 1:14 PM, Evil Dragon Master said:

No, the very fact that he has to get saved constantly and that he's nowhere near the most powerful wizard discounts him from that

 

You make a good point. But being a Mary Sue isn't just about a power level of over 9000. It's a social thing too.

[Hive King 2,001]

  On 2014-10-05 at 1:22 PM, Smokie-Horse said:

You make a good point. But being a Mary Sue isn't just about a power level of over 9000. It's a social thing too.

Draco Malfoy and pretty much everyone in Slytherin hates him, Snape dislikes him, and a lot of the teachers in the later books just outright do't give a crap

[Smokie-Horse 83]

  On 2014-10-05 at 1:24 PM, Evil Dragon Master said:

Draco Malfoy and pretty much everyone in Slytherin hates him, Snape dislikes him, and a lot of the teachers in the later books just outright do't give a crap

 

True, but believe it or not, that validates Harry in certain ways. Having characters who are clearly slimy and wrong hate him makes it all the more obvious that he's a brave and likeable guy. But hey, different things to different people.

[ponytheorist 181]

Mary sue can be really good in stories, when handled good. An important thing to remember is that it should never be the protagonist that is the mary sue. Then there is a big chance your story is gonna suck.

 

However, if the mary sue is a supporting character, it can work. The thing to remember is that there can only be a mary sue in a story, when it helpes the viewer understand more about the real protagonist, or his relation with the world. For example, if the mary sue is in a story to help people understand that the protagonist is a outcast, because he isn't like the mary sue, it's actually a very good character.

 

But never make a mary sue the the main person in a story. 

[flutterboss 3]

They're just too predictable and annoying for me

[Cloud Strife 928]

I've noticed that the tag for this is "Applejack", and it makes me raise an eyebrow. I didn't see anyone accusing Applejack of being a Mary Sue; usually I see that argument directed at Twilight.

 

If someone's making statements about Applejack in that manner, though, it's probably because she's the most well off of the Mane Six. She's where she needs to be already, and she has her life together - but this doesn't in any way make her a Mary Sue. She's not the most powerful of the Mane Six, so that's automatically checked off (because unicorns and pegasi are OP). She doesn't have a terribly tragic back story aside from losing her parents, but she still has a lot of her family left so it doesn't really count. The thing that makes her sink into the background and not be as interesting to some people is simply because of the fact that since she's already where she wants to be, her personal conflict would be minute compared to the others. The only kind of conflicts that would be high conflict for her would be a) to lose her friends, or b ) to lose the farm. Both have been explored within the show, and even in those incidences she usually reacted rather calmly (with the very stark exception of "Bats!", which has probably the best conflict for Applejack as of late).

 

As for Twilight, many people say sparkle pony is Mary Sue because she gets granted special rights and has a higher level of ascension than the others of the main cast. Here's the thing: she's the main main character, as in the series relies on her. Sure, the others of the Mane Six are important, but when it comes down to it, if you swapped them out with other characters you'd still have a story. Twilight? Not so much; she was the catalyst for it beginning. The thing is, it's very common for the protagonist to have these special privileges because ultimately, the story resolves around them - and while the other characters are in it, this show is ultimately about Twilight learning the nuances of friendship. That doesn't mean her friends don't learn too (hence them all being able to write lessons, etc) but they wouldn't even be trying to if it weren't for Twilight in the first place. Another thing that Twilight-Mary-Sue detractors seem to forget is that Twilight earned her right to get all of these special advantages. She studied for years (off screen, admittedly) to study magic, and it's her special talent at that, and she spent three whole seasons learning about friendship, which was the disciple for which she was chosen. Yes, she might've been the Chosen One, but she could've easily defected from it and not earned her role. In fact...

 

That's exactly what Sunset Shimmer did. 

 

Ho, boy. Now that I think about it, what would have happened to Sunset Shimmer if she'd not been so consumed with power, letting ambition take her over to the point that she didn't have consideration for other ponies? Would she be a princess instead?

 

I'm sure fanfic writers have gotten on that but please get on it more because it's such an interesting idea.

[IJoinedForPonies 126]

I'm kind of curious about my OC, is she considered a "Marry Sue"? Any feedback in general would be great too. :-)

[Invincible 2,092]

Bland character, usually little to no interesting character development. They become predictable, sometimes even unnecessary and ruin my enjoyment of an otherwise good plot.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Terminus

[Sonicwing 57]

For me the basis of good story telling is adversity, character growth and conflict. The majority of Mary Sue's don't have any of these. Any conflict or adversity is overcome with little to no effort. There's no reason to root for them, there's nothing on the line. The character never needs to grow because they're what would happen if Superman, Iron Man and The Doctor were cloned and mixed together.

[Lucky Star 972]

because the story wouldn't be interesting if the mc was so perfect that she/he had no challenge in defeating enemies or over coming obstacles.

[Deathstroke 1,564]

Well, because they're flawless they don't have any known weakness and not to mention in action RP they can pretty much destroy the opposition single-handedly 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Deathstroke