Princess or Alicorn - what's worse and what's better?

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

She looks more OP It's sort of unfair to the other mane 6

 

But wasn't she already OP before the change? 

 

I don't like letting myself get into excessive rants, so I'll just try to keep it down to the more core bits; the ones that ultimately caused me to stop watching season 4 entirely were the huge changes of character.

Nobody writing for her character can now very easily forget "She's a princess now. She's important. She's saved the world about 8 dozen times." (forgetting of course that she did this with 5 others, who then go completely back to being looney bins when Pie Day rolls around) Any attempts to forget this were cut off by stapling some wings onto her.

The end effect, though, is that she's nowhere near the silly, dorky character she started the show as. Remember when she became guinea pig for a corset by Rarity? Remember when a flowerpot, anvil, piano, and entire wagon cart fell on her while she was in a wheelchair? Remember when she attempted to research how to do a sleepover, and pondered over whether having a tree crash through your window counted as camping? Remember the chemical-filled science lab she keeps in her basement for experiments?

 

Sure, some of that stuff is things that "happened to her", rather than "things she...happened...?", but writing can do what it wants; one day Twilight could inherit a lunar satellite from her parents simply because the writers happened to hit that part of the dartboard. Like I said, I stopped watching Season 4, so maybe by some chance they made a sequel to Lesson Zero, but in all honesty, even when I tried writing episodes, I feel like that seems a lot more difficult now that there's a sign with "I am Important." written in a distinctive font strapped to her side. I feel like if an anvil dropped on her head today, she'd fall to her knees in serious pain as violin music strikes on, and gets a 5-minute half-conscious internal monologue about how she has to get up to keep supporting her friends and save the world.

 

On the plus side, I've been watching Teen Titans Go, and Starfire seems to be pretty much the type of overeager, happy-to-please girl I like, while still very often ending up with the Idiot Ball for laughs.

 

Also, on another tangent: Yahtzee summed up a bit of this well in his Darksiders review, around 3:58.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1404-Darksiders

The more excessive details you add to a character, the more is taken away from the parts that matter. Simple is really best.

 

• Rainbow Dash gets wings because she LIVES around being an amazing, fast, daring flier.
• Fluttershy gets wings because winged creatures are often seen as being fragile, or wary of danger. Ever played Fire Emblem? Pegasi tend not to be your tanks, especially if archers are on the same continent as them...
• Rarity gets a horn because unicorns are seen as regal, mythical creatures.
• Applejack gets no features besides a hat because her four limbs are what's strongest about her; she's solidly built and doesn't need anything more than that.
• Pinkie Pie wouldn't benefit from anything beyond her natural hairstyle.
• S1-S3 Twilight gets a horn because her talent/obsession is magic.

 

 

Edit: I said S4.   

 

S3 Twilight gets wings, because she's proven her leadership. Since the beginning of the show we've seen alicorns portrayed as natural leaders with their more regal look.

Edited March 20, 2014 by DryColt84

[Castle Bleck 19,386]

@Katana & DryColt84,

 

Fridge Brilliance in spades.

[LightningGearV3.01 52]

I wasn't afraid of twilicorn or the princess status. What I was afraid of is WHY they made her into a princess and (at the time) which way the series was going to go from there.

 

But when season 4 hit, I was okay with the new twi. You know why? Because hasbro has heard us.

 

They know better than anyone on this site that if they lose the bronies, they significantly cut down their profits and watchers by more than 60%. They need us or they lose money, and that's the language corporations like them understand. So that's why they took the intense and adventurous approach and outright stated on the pilot for season 4 that twilight won't become a Mary Sue. That's why they didn't get rid of derpy. That's why the show continues to try and appeal to both us, and the original targeted demographic.

 

Because they need us, and with that in mind, they take every, single, complaint into account, and try and find a middle ground.

 

As for twi herself....take wings, strap them onto her. No difference to her personality. In "twilight time", they actually shown that she is quite intimidated and maybe even embarrassed about her position.

 

But if there's one thing that still bothers me about it is that twi is now significantly more independent. I mean, both wings and a horn, and she demonstrated offensive abilities in the first two episodes of season 4. She would be able to handle all the problems in Ponyville herself. Before season 3, the mane six worked more like pieces of a whole pony. Rainbow dash was brave, but ignorant. Twilight was smart, but overly logical. Pinkie pie was giddy, but unstable. Applejack was level headed, but overly stressed. Rarity was calm, but somewhat stiff to anything not her forte. Fluttershy was accepting, but usually scared.

 

It all intertwines full circle. But with twi as a princess she has to learn to be all of these advantages, and when she does, why would she need her friends help?

[Wardaddy 470]

I initially was against both Twilight's ascension and coronation because it ruined my basic understanding of alicorns and princesses in the MLPverse. I assumed alicorns existed purely because they had a role in the very fabric of life itself, and subsequently, their princesshood followed as a perk. In Celestia's and Luna's case, their jobs were to raise the sun and the moon, and thus they needed to be alicorns (immortal alicorns, no less) because the sun and moon required extraordinary amounts of magic/power to be raised and lowered. Back during the days of the sister's parents (if any at all), the ponies respected and feared the alicorns so much that they chose to elect them as their de facto leaders, leading to the monarchy of present-day Equestria. When Cadance was introduced, she was introduced as the Princess of Love, a role I was quick to accept considering love was something that could also be represented by a corporeal form. An element, if you will.

 

However, Cadance, Tia and Luna didn't just become princesses out of the blue, methinks. As their respective coronations drew near, I supposed that they received extensive education about their purpose and necessity to be a princess, as well as their duties, roles and responsibilities. When Twilight became an alicorn and a princess (in the same goddamn episode, no less), it wrecked my headcanon, as now it became clear to me that being an alicorn was now no longer a birthright, but a mere status that anypony could achieve if they worked hard enough for it. The coronation also didn't sit well with me, as I considered it to have jumped the shark by a long mile. There was no build-up or anything. None of the fandom, including me, saw this coming, despite the leaks Hasbro gave us. I mean, did Twilight look anything close to being ready for princesshood? From what I saw, everything she had been through was friendship lessons, just friendship lessons which brought herself and her friends closer together. I didn't actually think they were her education for princesshood. Furthermore, there was the fear of Twilight becoming aloof from her friends and caught up in a whole shitstorm of royal duties. We're talking greeting other dignitaries from lands and provinces near and far, attending royal conferences and banquets, being guest of honour at special events, you get the picture. 

 

But perhaps the worst thing about this was that I was afraid that being an alicorn and a princess set Twilight apart from the Mane 5, very far apart. For me, Twilight didn't need to be an alicorn/princess for us to know she was special. To be a part of the protagonist conglomerate known as the Mane 6 and to be a wielder of the Elements of Harmony was enough for us to know that Twilight was unique for her species. Now that she's an alicorn AND a princess, she sticks out like a sore thumb, and definitely not in a good way. However, fortune smiled upon me as eventually, I got used to her. I'm still not happy about how she was introduced, but I understand it was for the greater good. 

[Scootalove 10,689]

That is my argument for the whole thing: Twilight Sparkle is still Twilight Sparkle. She hasn't truly changed; only her appearance and title has, so my question to the dislikers of "Twilicorn" becomes...

 

what is the real problem here?

The real problem here is, they think the change didn't really help her character grow more than it has grown in the past.

[PinkiePieJr 122]

You know, Twilight has been a princess since birth. As soon as we found out about Shining Armour, we should have already known that she would be a princess. It's just they didn't really bring that up untill the S3 finale. The only thing that changed was her getting wings. But that hasn't really changed her personality that much, so why should it bother us?

[Technicolor_Pony 34]

I mind princess more. It feels like her connection with her friends may be different. I don't mind Alicorns, being I am one, but might as well be a pegasi cause I am horrible with my horn XD

[Katana 298]

But wasn't she already OP before the change? 

 

S4 Twilight gets wings, because she's proven her leadership. Since the beginning of the show we've seen alicorns portrayed as natural leaders with their more regal look.

 

Okay, I don't think I'll debate the position of "leader" much - in fact, it fits with a lot of how she acts in the first several seasons too. But I'm not really sure I see how wings contribute to that appearance. Plus, any non-asshole leaders tend not to wear some kind of crown of their position everywhere they go. They look normal; they try their best to be thought of as equals among those they lead. Red Ranger always has the look of being the "leader", but they tend not to bling themselves out for the heck of it as a result. (Note: If my meager knowledge of Power Rangers is wrong, know that I spite the Red Ranger as a result)

 

I should also point out: I pretty much acknowledge there's no way things are going back. Enough people appreciate/enjoy the change that doing a 180 on character design would just split the fans up even more, not to mention be seen as fickle. I would PERSONALLY like it to change so I can go back to enjoying the show, but I know that as a whole, for everyone's sake, it would be a bad idea.

[Quill Waver 1,408]

The real problem here is, they think the change didn't really help her character grow more than it has grown in the past.

Being frivolous is difficult in a forum board. I knew the problem; I was just playing innocent.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Asterian Starfall

[Scootalove 10,689]

Being frivolous is difficult in a forum board. I knew the problem; I was just playing innocent.

Ah, well then carry on with your normal activities.

[FNGRpony 658]

It's people in search of a problem.

I hated magical mystery cure,

that said, alicorn twilight has done nothing bad to the show.

 

When twilight turned the main six into breezies,

it had nothing do with being an alicorn.

Twilight has casted one alicorn spell in season 4.
One.  The alicorn milk shake.

And we're nearly done with the season and not heard squat about it.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a non alicorn princess,

or a non princess alicorn.

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

Okay, I don't think I'll debate the position of "leader" much - in fact, it fits with a lot of how she acts in the first several seasons too. But I'm not really sure I see how wings contribute to that appearance. Plus, any non-asshole leaders tend not to wear some kind of crown of their position everywhere they go. They look normal; they try their best to be thought of as equals among those they lead. Red Ranger always has the look of being the "leader", but they tend not to bling themselves out for the heck of it as a result. (Note: If my meager knowledge of Power Rangers is wrong, know that I spite the Red Ranger as a result)

 

I should also point out: I pretty much acknowledge there's no way things are going back. Enough people appreciate/enjoy the change that doing a 180 on character design would just split the fans up even more, not to mention be seen as fickle. I would PERSONALLY like it to change so I can go back to enjoying the show, but I know that as a whole, for everyone's sake, it would be a bad idea.

 

You're not enjoying the show over the change? I'm sorry to hear that. I personally still find the characters pretty simple in this show, but I also love cryptic, complicated dialogue in other shows. In other words, I'm jaded when it comes to simplicity vs. complexity. I can't tell when dialogue is redundant or dense without actually going out of my way to think about, and even then it's hard for me. Does that sound dumb?

Edited March 20, 2014 by DryColt84

[Quill Waver 1,408]

Ah, well then carry on with your normal activities.

*Bows respectfully* Indeed, milady Maud Pie.

[Scootalove 10,689]

*Bows respectfully* Indeed, milady Maud Pie.

Fantastic and remember rocks are life.

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

@Katana & DryColt84,

 

Fridge Brilliance in spades.

 

What do you mean? Did I say something that implies that I had an epiphany about the show?

Edited March 20, 2014 by DryColt84

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,873]

To me, neither are bad. In fact, I love both. Both represent a change that I love for Twilight as a character, it is a neat advancement. Her being an Alicorn AND a princess, I think it fits right in with her character as a leader and it even shows in season 4.

 

However, there has not been much focus on this fact. That is the only thing that bugs me a little bit. I would love for them to acknowledge this new change more. Though, they might be trying to build other character's up and that's fine, I just want to see more Princess Twilight in action.

 

It's her destiny and it has worked out quite well so far, so I see no negatives. Never have. :3 Yeah, I am still obsessed with it, just as much as before, just take a look at my past posts for that. I really was one of the biggest defenders of it and I am still, but it really isn't needed at this point.

 

They just need to keep doing what they are doing at least and I will still be happy either way.

 

Shutting up now.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Kyoshi

[Celli 4,339]

I didn't have a problem before, and I don't have a problem now. She's still Twily. Though I would like to see more development from her as alicorn/princess.

[Katana 298]

You're not enjoying the show over the change? I'm sorry to hear that. I personally still find the characters pretty simple in this show, but I also love cryptic, complicated dialogue in other shows. In other words, I'm jaded when it comes to simplicity vs. complexity. I can't tell when dialogue is redundant or dense without actually going out of my way to think about, and even then it's hard for me. Does that sound dumb?

I stopped watching entirely. I actually gave S4 a shot, deciding my beliefs were probably excessive - I picked random episodes out of the lot, and a few episodes weren't bad, mainly because of low Twilight screentime. Then the finale to Castle Mane-ia was pretty much "GIRLZ. I, YOUR LORD AND RULER, AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU FOR BEING SILLY." That freaking ending was pretty much last straw, I didn't understand at all why the "creepy castle" trope suddenly didn't affect Ms. Main Character other than this shift; it's more than wings or royalty. It's what wings or royalty does to the writers. At that point it pretty much became impossible for me to watch without a nagging sense in my head going "Dear god...this character has changed. Badly. In the name of toys."

 

For a while, I was basically holding on because of an interest in the community for what it is, while idlely pretending S4 didn't exist. But, now that it seems a huge majority of them are all shifting gears to accept the changes, complete with any interesting fan-made animations...I'm just not likely to be a fan myself much longer. It's nothing more than a show for little girls that's succumbed to all the tropes that made shows for little girls unlikable. That makes me really sad.

 

I guess I've turned this into more of a rant than I intended.

 

But please, someone wake me up if in some episode Twilight gets squeezed through a cider press in Bugs Bunny fashion.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

There's one big change that pisses me off more than anything. I've thought FiM is a great show from the beginning, but something happened that left a sour taste in my mouth:

 

One minute and forty seconds into the first episode they changed the animation style. I still enjoy the show, but not nearly as much as I did during the halcyon days of storybook style FiM. I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive Lauren Faust for that.

[Quill Waver 1,408]

There's one big change that pisses me off more than anything. I've thought FiM is a great show from the beginning, but something happened that left a sour taste in my mouth:

 

One minute and forty seconds into the first episode they changed the animation style. I still enjoy the show, but not nearly as much as I did during the halcyon days of storybook style FiM. I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive Lauren Faust for that.

Actually, that's a common misconception; Lauren Faust no longer works on the show in any way, shape, or form.

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

I stopped watching entirely. I actually gave S4 a shot, deciding my beliefs were probably excessive - I picked random episodes out of the lot, and a few episodes weren't bad, mainly because of low Twilight screentime. Then the finale to Castle Mane-ia was pretty much "GIRLZ. I, YOUR LORD AND RULER, AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU FOR BEING SILLY." That freaking ending was pretty much last straw, I didn't understand at all why the "creepy castle" trope suddenly didn't affect Ms. Main Character other than this shift; it's more than wings or royalty. It's what wings or royalty does to the writers. At that point it pretty much became impossible for me to watch without a nagging sense in my head going "Dear god...this character has changed. Badly. In the name of toys."

 

For a while, I was basically holding on because of an interest in the community for what it is, while idlely pretending S4 didn't exist. But, now that it seems a huge majority of them are all shifting gears to accept the changes, complete with any interesting fan-made animations...I'm just not likely to be a fan myself much longer. It's nothing more than a show for little girls that's succumbed to all the tropes that made shows for little girls unlikable. That makes me really sad.

 

I guess I've turned this into more of a rant than I intended.

 

But please, someone wake me up if in some episode Twilight gets squeezed through a cider press in Bugs Bunny fashion.

 

I don't think it'll be possible to wake you up if you stopped watching because of an instance in which she contributed to the resolution. She didn't say anything to make her seem as if she is a tyrant, and didn't succumb to the tropes in any way. In that same episode she proves that she still has a lot to learn, such as: not being dismissive of others fears, not getting so wrapped up in books that you're oblivious to the situation, and not to jump to conclusions. Remember too that princess is a different title in Equestria, it means a ruler with great power chosen as a protector for their deeds. You stated Twilight very much took on a leadership role in the previous seasons, so this is just another logical step up, right? Also, that last line just makes you come across as childish.

 

You don't have to like the show, I don't care, but your reasoning right now just seems like a close-minded interpretation of the events in the show.

There's one big change that pisses me off more than anything. I've thought FiM is a great show from the beginning, but something happened that left a sour taste in my mouth:

 

One minute and forty seconds into the first episode they changed the animation style. I still enjoy the show, but not nearly as much as I did during the halcyon days of storybook style FiM. I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive Lauren Faust for that.

 

It still has the same animation style it has just been updated for two reasons: bigger budget and more experience.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

@,@

 

You guys didn't really read my post that closely, did you? 

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

@,@

 

You guys didn't really read my post that closely, did you? 

 

Aaaaaaaaaannnnnnddd now I'm an idiot. 

[Lightning Bliss 1,674]

I'm actually one of those who loves the change and loves she has a title and is an alicorn, but if i had to choose, it would be Princess. Reason why is because, well, what is she the princess of offically? She doesn't have a kingdom to rule like Celestia and Luna and Cadence, she the Princess of Ponyville? lol!

 

Ok yes she's basically the Princess of Friendship in my eyes, just as Cadence is the Princess of Love, but the difference is, is that even Cadence has a kingdom to look after or sorry Empire, but Twilight does not. Hows this gonna work? She gonna remain in Ponyville as a low rank Princess? Or is she eventually gonna have bigger responsibilities now other then taking up the slack if something happends to Celestia and Luna? That'd be my only issue about it, but im sure the series will explain it.

[Quill Waver 1,408]

@,@

 

You guys didn't really read my post that closely, did you? 

Clearly not. I must have missed something.