Am I the only brony on here who thinks Chrysalis should not be redeemed?

[Wardaddy 470]

Are you sure you want me to delve on my headcanon about her? I have a lot... But i can crop it to stuff thats only relevant. I need to mention this right now that its going to have demons in it somehow... Like what Tirek was but not nesseccarily him.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm quite curious to read the headcanons of others. Usually they're more intricate than mine.

[Hive King 2,001]

I have the Changelings as Spider-Man style Symbiotes. You know, the slime that gives Venom, Carnage, and Toxin their powers. Weird that they're called Symbiotes when they're parasites. 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

I have the Changelings as Spider-Man style Symbiotes. You know, the slime that gives Venom, Carnage, and Toxin their powers. Weird that they're called Symbiotes when they're parasites.

Symbiotic parasites like the goaoul from stargate exist. Also my headcanon will follow as soon as i can reach a pc.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

True, but it's hard to distinguish when their species name is "Symbiote".  

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,

True, but it's hard to distinguish when their species name is "Symbiote".

A fetus could also be called a parasite if you think about it. The problem is we equate parasite with evil. Edited March 23, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Yeah, but the fetus isn't called Symbiote by name. That's the problem with the Symbiotes, you have to capitalize it so people know they talk about the Spider Man one, not the natural one 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@, In other words silly word play that doesn't prove anything. 

[Adachi 772]

I like to think of QC as Sylvanas Windrunner. She is ruthless and can be evil and deceptive, but she is doing it for her race. Although Sylvanas I think is more evil than QC, since she actually had people killed and she has no qualms about raising anyone up from the dead to turn into one of her subjects. Then again, when I think about it, QC reveled in the power she was gonna receive. If she was really doing it just to help her people, the song would've reflected such. Maybe something about having to make some sacrifices for progress or something. But no, she said "No, I do not love the groom, in my heart there is no room! But STILL, I want him to be all MINE!"

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,Curious as to how we two managed to make the same comparison. Although the most recent Sylvanas appears to look like more and more like her former master reveling in raising dead alliance soldiers as Val'akyr and other undead sort to help against Garrosh Hellscream.

 

"No, I do not love the groom, in my heart there is no room! But STILL, I want him to be all MINE!"

What if she was actually... jealous? Well to be honest she needed him to take down the barrier and it would be logical that she wants him all hers. But if there was no room in her heart for him for whom was there? Herself? Or the changelings? Both are possible... To be honest we had more time to know pre-Arthas Sylvanas and post-Arthas and we don't have enough of her. And don't mention the comics... its getting pretty tiring. What you do in the comics can't be done in the show! It's done by different writers! So the writers of the comics may not agree completely with the writers of the show on canon-ity of each other.

[Everleaf 541]

I'm in the middle with it I never saw her (evil) yet if done well she would be pretty good to be redeemed she did it for her people so it IS possible but only if done right so myself I am half and half...

[Wardaddy 470]

I like to think of QC as Sylvanas Windrunner. She is ruthless and can be evil and deceptive, but she is doing it for her race. Although Sylvanas I think is more evil than QC, since she actually had people killed and she has no qualms about raising anyone up from the dead to turn into one of her subjects. Then again, when I think about it, QC reveled in the power she was gonna receive. If she was really doing it just to help her people, the song would've reflected such. Maybe something about having to make some sacrifices for progress or something. But no, she said "No, I do not love the groom, in my heart there is no room! But STILL, I want him to be all MINE!"

This is undeniable proof Chrysalis did not attack Canterlot for the survival of her race. She attacked to get more power, so that from there any other place she attacked next would get crushed beneath her hooves. Here and there, she would also mention how Celestia would be so cruel to not sacrifice any love for her people. In fact, if that were the case, then her anger would be directed mostly at Celestia, but no. All of Canterlot fell under her radar, and that is because Canterlot contained the love Chrysalis wanted for extra power.

 

Unless somepony else can come up with better evidence, I'll be back here waiting. *Leans against wall, smoking a cigar*

[Mywas 687]

This is undeniable proof Chrysalis did not attack Canterlot for the survival of her race. She attacked to get more power, so that from there any other place she attacked next would get crushed beneath her hooves. Here and there, she would also mention how Celestia would be so cruel to not sacrifice any love for her people. In fact, if that were the case, then her anger would be directed mostly at Celestia, but no. All of Canterlot fell under her radar, and that is because Canterlot contained the love Chrysalis wanted for extra power.

 

Unless somepony else can come up with better evidence, I'll be back here waiting. *Leans against wall, smoking a cigar*

No, she said it had the most amout of Love she has ever seen and even stated that it was her duty to provide Love for her people.

 

And about the asking Celestia thing, maybe she was raised to believe in taking over than peace. Maybe her mother taught her to take over without mercy for the sake of the changelings. If anything Chrysalis is a product of her society like Azula.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Here and there, she would also mention how Celestia would be so cruel to not sacrifice any love for her people.

Where exactly did she do that?

 

This is undeniable proof Chrysalis did not attack Canterlot for the survival of her race.

 "It is up to me to find food for my subjects." We never said however that she did it for their survival. They might feed upon it but that doesn't mean they were in danger of starvation at that time. Thus this is debatable... your tendency to grab upon things and render them undeniable proof with so much as a whim because of your preferences being that way is the only thing that ticks me off. Your tendency to work with absolutes and black and whites is the only thing that brings me to clash with you and others who cry out that Discord was so cool when he was evil that he shouldn't be good! The drama that was created with Discord's reform Equals the tantrums done over Twilight's ascension to alicorn. I am sick and tired of some fans crying "OVERUSED" and "CLICHE" just being they are FRIGGIN HIPSTERS. JESUS FRIGGIN CHRIST! Calm down and stop being stubborn douchebags!!!

Edited March 23, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Wardaddy 470]

Where exactly did she do that?

 

 "It is up to me to find food for my subjects." We never said however that she did it for their survival. They might feed upon it but that doesn't mean they were in danger of starvation at that time. Thus this is debatable... your tendency to grab upon things and render them undeniable proof with so much as a whim because of your preferences being that way is the only thing that ticks me off. Your tendency to work with absolutes and black and whites is the only thing that brings me to clash with you and others who cry out that Discord was so cool when he was evil that he shouldn't be good! The drama that was created with Discord's reform Equals the tantrums done over Twilight's ascension to alicorn. I am sick and tired of some fans crying "OVERUSED" and "CLICHE" just being they are FRIGGIN HIPSTERS. JESUS FRIGGIN CHRIST! Calm down and stop being stubborn douchebags!!!

Exactly the point. She didn't say that.

 

Ok, I shouldn't have said undeniable proof, but for God's sake, I just don't want to see Chrysalis redeemed! She's too good of a villain to meet the same fate as Nightmare Moon, Discord or even Sunset Shimmer (who met her fate wayyy too quickly)! And guess what? I never gave a rat's ass about Discord! I never understood the hype about him, and I still don't understand it now! What's so friggin good about him that so many bronies like him?! And ok, I also cried when Twilight became an alicorn and a princess, but that was because it happened IN THE SAME GODDAMN EPISODE, AND NO MORE THAN 5 SECONDS APART, NO LESS. I managed to get over that, but this is something I will not let fly. Chrysalis is just better as an antagonist. Her actions, canon or not, render her irredeemable. And while I understand you and the other bronies who want Chrysalis to become the Queen of Gumdrops and Lollipops demand an exploration into the character, all I ask is that she remains a villain! Not redeemed or purified!

[Adachi 772]

I would be open to seeing a good version of QC, would make for an interesting character. Whether as a sympathetic former villain, or as the alternate reality version of her. Still think that outside of an alternate reality version of her, there's not much hope to see a good QC, but it could happen.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

And while I understand you and the other bronies who want Chrysalis to become the Queen of Gumdrops and Lollipops demand an exploration into the character, all I ask is that she remains a villain! Not redeemed or purified!

When have i ever mentioned that i want her Queen of Gumdrops and lolipops? That's like spitting in her own name! You have read what i have said above haven't you? Okay let me be clear on this... Queen Chrysalis is NOT innocent and there will surely be always some people who will consider her evil. I personally consider Luna more irredeemable... she had an even less valid reason to take over the world... jealousy... MERE JEALOUSY. What you don't understand is this however... having her to return only to be blasted off again will only result in a senseless, idiotic, moronic shit of an episode! It's better for me that she doesn't return at all if she's going to be evil for the some hollow shallow reason! It will make me hate the character and destroy any reputation and be EVEN MORE CLICHE than green goblin and spiderman! I absolutely DESPISE returning villains that end up the same way. This is the reason why Discord was reformed... story-wise Celestia knew Discord would escape once again sometime in the future and wanted to avert this! What Fluttershy said about Discord could be used for any other villain "I don't see them as being perfect but i don't see you giving them a chance." But whatever i won't delve into the fact of how she can be redeemed because you keep thinking that "redeemed" will mean she will become a saint. You're seeing the world in black and white and i feel like bashing my head against the wall.

In short here's what i think. You are tired of redemption stories not done right... understandable.

You are tired of cliches and stuff... also understandable.

You went and threw a tantrum because you saw this on another thread that considered it possible... not cool.

And because of that you made a thread to look for others to agree with you... not cool but it's understandable to be exploring both sides. 

The fact that you made a thread that was so rushed and you immediately became judgmental and made quick assumptions about anyone who was against your claim is something is not too flattering for yourself. I will do what i can to find out the thread that i posted my past theorycrafting and see what i can contribute to this headcanon exhachange. If of course you are willing to hear me out...

[Pat.Rio.T. 305]

, 

 

What do you mean? Being a villain, wouldn't that make her an antagonist?

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@@Pat.Rio.T.,Actually no... here's what the difference between villain and antagonist is. 
Here's what googling those words wielded. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/villain
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antagonist
It would be very interesting to see her turned into an antagonist rather than purified. That's something that we haven't seen in MLP and i would very much be interested in seeing. 

Think of it...

[Pat.Rio.T. 305]

, 

 

As far as I can tell, I was right. A villain is a type of antagonist. So please forgive me if I fail to see the difference, or what you are trying to get at for that matter.

[Wardaddy 470]

When have i ever mentioned that i want her Queen of Gumdrops and lolipops? That's like spitting in her own name! You have read what i have said above haven't you? Okay let me be clear on this... Queen Chrysalis is NOT innocent and there will surely be always some people who will consider her evil. I personally consider Luna more irredeemable... she had an even less valid reason to take over the world... jealousy... MERE JEALOUSY. What you don't understand is this however... having her to return only to be blasted off again will only result in a senseless, idiotic, moronic shit of an episode! It's better for me that she doesn't return at all if she's going to be evil for the some hollow shallow reason! It will make me hate the character and destroy any reputation and be EVEN MORE CLICHE than green goblin and spiderman! I absolutely DESPISE returning villains that end up the same way. This is the reason why Discord was reformed... story-wise Celestia knew Discord would escape once again sometime in the future and wanted to avert this! What Fluttershy said about Discord could be used for any other villain "I don't see them as being perfect but i don't see you giving them a chance." But whatever i won't delve into the fact of how she can be redeemed because you keep thinking that "redeemed" will mean she will become a saint. You're seeing the world in black and white and i feel like bashing my head against the wall.

 

In short here's what i think. You are tired of redemption stories not done right... understandable.

 

You are tired of cliches and stuff... also understandable.

 

You went and threw a tantrum because you saw this on another thread that considered it possible... not cool.

 

And because of that you made a thread to look for others to agree with you... not cool but it's understandable to be exploring both sides. 

 

The fact that you made a thread that was so rushed and you immediately became judgmental and made quick assumptions about anyone who was against your claim is something is not too flattering for yourself. I will do what i can to find out the thread that i posted my past theorycrafting and see what i can contribute to this headcanon exhachange. If of course you are willing to hear me out...

Yeah, I am quite willing to let you explain yourself, and since when did I ever want Chrysalis to be blasted off? We all saw how quickly Team Rocket went down the drain with their never-ending blastoffs. I'd much rather she was redeemed in a proper, thorough and calculated way, or she was killed using the same method. And I call the reformed Chrysalis Queen of Gumdrops and Lollipops because reformation will turn Chrysalis good, and yet another villain with enormous potential will have been wasted. I blew a gasket because I had heard it countless times already: was a redemption in the cards for Chrysalis? I dismissed them all not because she was a good villain, I dismissed them for fear that Chrysalis's redemption would turn out exactly like Sunset Shimmer's. Rushed, thoughtless, a cheap cop-out, you get the picture.

 

I keep on bashing my own head against the wall, because I wonder how many times will it take before you get it? Chrysalis has HUGE potential as an antagonist. I was very impressed with her performance in the S2 finale, which led me to wonder the possibilities of her continuing that form upon her return. Both Chrys and her Changelings had the ability to shapeshift, to harvest love and even to mind control. Plus, they can give themselves more strength using the love they harvested, making them a formidable threat to the very existence of Equestria. If Hasbro utilized that same threat level in her next appearance in the show, then once more we might all be in for another smash-hit episode, or even another smash-hit finale! The only thing standing in the way of that, however, is the thought of redemption. When I consider Chrysalis's personality, I just don't think she's the kind of villain who can make a deal. I mean, love is not exactly a solid object that can be traded for peace, but if Hasbro can make it work, I'm willing to give it a shot.

 

I'm sorry if I can't read between the lines. It's just that in this case, I can't see any grey zone to stick Chrysalis in. It's either she remains a villain, or she dies trying. However, because you refuse to explain how she can be redeemed, I'm willing to take a back seat and let you say what you need to say.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@@Pat.Rio.T., Let me analyze it further. A villain can be a villain without being an antagonist. Likewise a villain can be an antognist as well. An antagonist doesn't nessecarily need to be a villain. 

Lightning Dust and Trixie were ANTAGONISTS for the most part and NOT VILLAINS. They were clashing with the heroes but they weren't villains. Trixie was competing with everyone but she didn't want everyone dead. Lightning Dust was also competing to become the best she could be but didn't actually want to kill everyone.  

This is the reason why i hate posters like this 

Are you serious? Diamond Tiara, The cockatrice, the dragons as villains? People see posters like this and immediately begin the gross generalizations. I hate it... I hate generalization is their entirety...

 

 

or she was killed using the same method.

 I don't think that's going to happen. Look at this for example...
http://redapropos.deviantart.com/art/Things-Ponies-Do-377820448

 

I keep on bashing my own head against the wall, because I wonder how many times will it take before you get it? Chrysalis has HUGE potential as an antagonist.

You might not have noticed... I WANT HER AS AN ANTAGONIST. I prefer that to the drama of redemption i also prefer it to having her killed... as much as you might not think of it this will smear the reputation of ponies a LOT if they consciously kill a villain. That's why they imprison them...

 

However, because you refuse to explain how she can be redeemed, I'm willing to take a back seat and let you say what you need to say.

I have explained how she can be redeemed before. I have proposed quite a few ideas... motherhood being one of them... being dethroned is another... facing the consequences and taking responsibility for her own actions, being imprisoned and derived from freedom but conscious to think about what she has done. A proper prison... War compensations, facing a common enemy with the ponies, learning about true love...

But first she has to get off the stick up her flank and toss her pride away. She has to lose something important to her to stop... something she cares about, something she considers for granted. She has to be brought at the lowest of low not being of something that happened in the past but because of something that happened in the present. Because as the saying goes "When you reach the bottom of the barrel there is only one way... up." 

There is also the fact that we could say she and the changelings were cursed/transformed/or sick to become this way with holes and stuff. Somewhere along those lines lies the best of what Chrysalis can be. Not a redeemed character... but someone who attempts to redeem herself for what she has done every day. She might not succeed to live to see herself redeemed but she might at least die with the honor that she did her best to surpass what she was... and that way she may die in peace rather than die like someone you might not even care for. Headcanon will follow after i manage to eat my two eggs.

 

 

I dismissed them for fear that Chrysalis's redemption would turn out exactly like Sunset Shimmer's. Rushed, thoughtless, a cheap cop-out, you get the picture.

Don't complain to bronies about that... complain to the show writers and Hasbro. 

[Pat.Rio.T. 305]

Let me analyze it further. A villain can be a villain without being an antagonist. Likewise a villain can be an antognist as well. An antagonist doesn't nessecarily need to be a villain. 

 

Lightning Dust and Trixie were ANTAGONISTS for the most part and NOT VILLAINS. They were clashing with the heroes but they weren't villains. Trixie was competing with everyone but she didn't want everyone dead. Lightning Dust was also competing to become the best she could be but didn't actually want to kill everyone.  

 

This is the reason why i hate posters like this 

 

Are you serious? Diamond Tiara, The cockatrice, the dragons as villains? People see posters like this and immediately begin the gross generalizations. I hate it... I hate generalization is their entirety...

I know all that! I never thought for a minute that Lightning Dust or Trixie or Diamond Tiara were villains! I just didn't know what you meant. It sounded like you thought villains and antagonists were completely unrelated in any way. And, what? Would Chrysi become like, a rival to Twilight(terrible example) or something weird like that? 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

When I consider Chrysalis's personality, I just don't think she's the kind of villain who can make a deal.

When i picture the moment Chrysalis makes any sort of deal i think of a certain quote that comes from a Cardfight!! Vanguard card.
 
She will do it because she HAS to... and not because she WANTS to.

[GrimCW 658]

TBH nope, she shouldn't.

Even in the comics she didn't show any hint of letting up, and only sought power. She's probably the shows only REAL villian to appear aside from sombra TMK.

Discord only did it because thats what he is, chaos, not because he wanted to really be a total pain in the tail.

 

 

 

 

since if you are drunk in the real world, you can press charges for not being in the right state of mind

 

 

Never understood this though, while I agree, it contradicts the idea that driving while drunk is a "personal choice" among other things that you can be charged for under the claim that you made a conscious choice in the right state of mind.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

I know all that! I never thought for a minute that Lightning Dust or Trixie or Diamond Tiara were villains! I just didn't know what you meant. It sounded like you thought villains and antagonists were completely unrelated in any way. And, what? Would Chrysi become like, a rival to Twilight(terrible example) or something weird like that? 

There could be a case where she would seek revenge against someone that hurt her own because she hated them. Twilight could be the one that stops her and proves to be the better in this situation. For once i would like to see an antagonist that doesn't immediately flee from the face of the heroes. Chrysalis could be like "Fear is the way to rule your subjects, you need to be strict!" and Fluttershy could be... just like the Breezies episode... "Only as a last resort." Chrysalis could be like "The end justifies the means! The law of the jungle, survival of the fittest!" and Rainbow Dash could be like "Not if it hurts others to happen... especially your friends and family." .

 

The thing is you didn't think them as villains but others say above which means some bronies do.

 

 

TMK

What the hell does TMK mean?