What makes an episode flawed?

[Shadyshay 2]

I just wanna know how a kids cartoon can be so flawed that people can point out whats wrong with it. Cause I don't see no flaws in any episode.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Shadyshay

[Megas 27,077]

It really depends on how an individual interprets an episode

 

The only thing that can really affect an episode for me is how the characters act and how the moral/lesson is taught

[paradoxical 1,735]

Also depends on how much time/effort one wants to put into such an endeavor.  For example; look at the Cinamare Sins.  Every little thing is examined.  Why?  Just cuz' he's having fun.

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Depends, the most important thing though is "was this episode entertaining" cause you can have any episode with no real major writing mistakes but if it's boring well it's a failure regardless. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,177]

I'll post a few examples at this point.

1. Characters acting flanderized or out of character. The former is about taking a specific trait of a character and reducing him or her to that point, the latter having their characters not behaving how they should be based on their background.
   
   Examples of flanderization:
   
   a. Rarity in Dragon Quest (putting extreme emphasis on her vanity)
   
   b. Applejack in Rainbow Falls (concentrating on and eating apple products only)
   
   c. Twilight in most of season four (losing her adorkable presence in favor of being the voice of reason all the time)
   
   d. Post-Season 1 Fluttershy (regressing her characterization in favor of being the comedic scaredy cat).
   
   Examples of out of characterization:
   
   a. The ReMane Five in Mare Do Well
   
   b. Twilight's inconsolable behavior towards Spike and ignoring Spike's stress
   
   c. Spitfire and Fleetfoot acting like total jerks in Rainbow Falls (lying to both Soarin' and Dash).
   
   d. In EQG, most of the HuMane Five had really shallow characterization and dialogue. Dash is the worst with her limited vocabulary and repetitive use of "awesome!"
2. Contradiction of continuity. This show has an emphasis on continuity because of the constant development of characters, and it only got more grounded post-Season 1.
   
   Examples:
   
   a. Spitfire having to relearn the importance of loyalty and Dash's morals despite learning them in Wonderbolts Academy.
   
   b. The script of Equestria Girls emphasized how Twilight needs to have her crown in order to maintain the stability of Equestria. Anyone else isn't able to activate it because Twilight is the bearer, and all the Elements had to be together and worn by the same ponies in order to trigger it. In the ending, when Sunset Shimmer donned it, she turns into a half-demon. Also, with Twilight not holding the crown, she and her Humane friends huddled, and a shield of friendship was formed, igniting the "spiritual" Elements of Harmony, contradicting the canon and explicit statements from the beginning of the film.
   
   c. Pinkie Pie stated in Griffon the Brush Off that she wanted to improve Gilda's attitude and kept her anger reserved out of the belief that Gilda'll turn the corner. In Bridle Gossip, she suddenly believed in the racist gossip surrounding Zecora and continually annoyed her friends with her antics, contradicting the canon.
   
   As an add-on, Pinkie Pie was extremely menacing to Fluttershy, scaring her to the point of making her cry. This violated this point in GtBO:
   
   

    

   Pinkie Pie: WHAT? [spits] Nononononono, we can't prank Fluttershy, I mean, she's so sensitive. It'll hurt her feelings, even our most harmless prank.

   d. Spike suddenly forgetting his ability to cook, clean, and just do simple chores, violating how he was able to be diligent, cook, and clean well up to that point.

3. A very mean-spirited tone when undeserved. Moments like Trixie taking away Pinkie's muzzle is a good way of doing mean-spirited humor because it's the antagonist doing it, and you're sympathizing with Pinkie because she didn't deserve it.
   
   FIM is about presenting a world full of likeable characters in a likeable atmosphere. When the show suddenly presents it the opposite, then the world becomes unpleasant and unwelcoming to watch, which is what FIM is not designed to do.
   
   Examples of the opposite:
   
   a. Putting Your Hoof Down: Angel Bunny physically abusing Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie using the Bugs Bunny gag to steal away a bit from a tomato vender.
   
   b. Pinkie's cruel behavior to FS in FV.
   
   c. In Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 600, Rainbow Dash is continually hit with the obnoxious gag of being so close to the cider, but coming up short, and the audience is supposed to laugh at Dash for it.
   
   d. In Ponyville Confidential, the Cutie Mark Crusaders were basically egged on to do more gossip columns because the public adored it. But when the gossip turned on them, then Ponyville shamed them and were very abusive. Some of the gags (Dash dousing them with rainwater, AJ and Big Mac switching roles) were mean-spirited jokes.
   
   e. The whole tone of The Mysterious Mare Do Well is very mean-spirited by having the characters being egotistical or morally corrupt.

4. Having the characters being told the moral to their face because they were too stupid to figure it out. When characters have to be told the moral, then they're not actually learning it. This is a show about learning morals and lessons, and the best way to learn it is by figuring it out, so being told the moral contradicts one of its mission statements and treats kids like idiots.
   
   Only five episodes did this: Bridle Gossip, Mare Do Well, Spike at Your Service, Somepony to Watch Over Me, and Equestria Games.

5. A very poor flow in the story. One of the show's biggest problems is the pacing. Sometimes it's too slow that it'd work at only ten minutes, while other times it's too fast and need a few more minutes or an extra episode for it all to flow together.
   
   One example of a slow pace is Boast Busters. Because of its thin plot, so much filler had to be written to stretch the episode to twenty minutes, and it really suffered partially for this.
   
   One example of a really fast pace is Magical Mystery Cure. This finale featured three huge events: the cutie mark switch, Twilight's ascension, and the ceremony. All cramed into one twenty-minute time slot. This meant whizzing the plot through, not allowing the script any time to breathe, and really injuring the credibility of the structure. Twilight's ascension never got proper time to foreshadow and evolve, relying on cheap shortcuts and shallow lyrics to flow from one event to another.

[PrymeStriker 408]

- Poor dialogue (way too many episodes)

- Mind-numbingly annoying characters (way too many episodes)

- Messy stories (Power Ponies, Filli Vanilli, etc.)

- Clumsy themes (Bridle Gossip, One Bad Apple, any of the forced "Friendship is Magic" crap past S3)

- Flanderization to holy hell (Filli Vanilli, Rainbow Falls)

- Characters-out-of-character...to holy hell (Rainbow Falls) 

- All of the above (Simple Ways) 
 

Inb4everyepisodeisflawed

 

e. The whole tone of The Mysterious Mare Do Well is very mean-spirited by having the characters being egotistical or morally corrupt.

You have to be talking about Rainbow Dash. She's been egotistical since The Ticket Master. In fact, the pilot is the only time the character is tolerable because her arrogance is so scarce that it's virtually nonexistent. After that, she became more and more unbearable. Mare Do Well attempted to take this to a new extreme so that the character could come back to being the more likable personality from the pilot. However, future portrayals of her in S3, EQ, and S4 have shown they want to forget that she ever remotely learned this kind of lesson in favor of make her even more of an asshole. Why pin this on the one episode that at least tried to get it right for once?  
 
I will agree that the ego became a problem when it interfered with her morals in the episode. At the same time, I didn't really find this interference unrealistic. We see people in the real world drop their morals in favor of their pomposity all the time. Celebrities, as a matter of fact, which were the type of people the episode was addressing. How many young celebrities do you know of that have suffered from this problem in the past? I'm not referring to anyone in particular, by the way.
 
As far as the character being spoon-fed the moral, honestly, I think Rainbow Dash was stupid enough in this episode to deserve it. I'd defend her learning her lesson a lot more if future episodes didn't ignore the fact that she learned it in the first place. I don't need to count more than one of these flanderizations in S3 or 4 where we should say "that's way too many," especially for a character who so desperately needed the development. She's regressing more and more each season. Again, I really don't think this episode is the problem; it was the only attempt at a solution.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Well you generally have to look at each individual episode and consider the context of things. One possible criticism is poor dialogue (not a big problem on this show, but there are times in episodes it feels a little amateurish imo). Lapses in logic and story coherency can also harm an episode. However, I don't think that's really been a problem. In some of the two-parters there are some questionable actions taken, but aside from the first episode of the series I can't recall any major plot holes or leaps in logic.

 

A lot of complaints against episodes can come down to personal taste. Some people might find something too mean-spirited while others may have no problem with it. Putting Your Hoof Down is an episode like that which comes to mind. I'll refrain from giving my opinion, but that's an episode that is totally polarizing for people.

 

Another possible problem an episode might have is its pacing. People complain about Magical Mystery Cure, saying way too many things happen in a short amount of time. The first time I watched it I felt completely flustered. However, upon repeat viewings the fast pace no longer bothers me. I don't even hold it against the episode. But many people do

 

As you'll conclude, all of these criticisms and how they affect an episode are subjective, varying from person to person. What may ruin an episode for one person might not even be a problem for another! And that's the beauty of art. We all have different opinions about it!

Edited November 18, 2014 by LZRD WZRD

[Starshine 16,330]

The presence of Merriwether Williams in the credits

 

No episodes nor writers are perfect, but it is sometimes more appreciated if a writer would refrain from going overboard

[Giygas 40]

Basically you can have a fundamentally flawed kids episode by making all the characters one-dimensional simpletons with no story and development, and all the characters have to do is just run around and look innocent (and stupid).

[Megas 27,077]

You have to be talking about Rainbow Dash. She's been egotistical since The Ticket Master. In fact, the pilot is the only time the character is tolerable because her arrogance is so scarce that it's virtually nonexistent. After that, she became more and more unbearable. Mare Do Well attempted to take this to a new extreme so that the character could come back to being the more likable personality from the pilot. However, future portrayals of her in S3, EQ, and S4 have shown they want to forget that she ever remotely learned this kind of lesson in favor of make her even more of an asshole. Why pin this on the one episode that at least tried to get it right for once?  

Preeeetttyyyy sure he meant that every character in the episode was an egotistical asshole.

 

Also I don't know what show you've been watching, by S3 and S4 she's arguably changed the most of the mane 6, and has toned down her egotistical nature by quite a bit(and obviously they can't, and shouldn't, get rid of it completely since it's a part of her character)

 

Also I'm not counting EQG since all of the mane 6 sans Twilight are pretty much the mane 6 at the early development stage

I will agree that the ego became a problem when it interfered with her morals in the episode. At the same time, I didn't really find this interference unrealistic. We see people in the real world drop their morals in favor of their pomposity all the time. Celebrities, as a matter of fact, which were the type of people the episode was addressing. How many young celebrities do you know of that have suffered from this problem in the past? I'm not referring to anyone in particular, by the way.

 

Except that wasn't the case. The that the moral wasn't presented in a pretty hypocritical fashion with her friends. They said that it's a good thing to be a hero "hero's don't brag" which would be fine...except that they're responsible for the same damn mistake*cue scene earlier at Sugar Cube Corner*

 

 

 

As far as the character being spoon-fed the moral, honestly, I think Rainbow Dash was stupid enough in this episode to deserve it. I'd defend her learning her lesson a lot more if future episodes didn't ignore the fact that she learned it in the first place. I don't need to count more than one of these flanderizations in S3 or 4 where we should say "that's way too many," especially for a character who so desperately needed the development. She's regressing more and more each season. Again, I really don't think this episode is the problem; it was the only attempt at a solution.

Seriously I have not clue on what show you're watching you're watching.

 

If you seriously think Rainbow Dash has regressed since Mare-Do-Well, then consider the following:

- Rainbow Dash leading Ponyville in Hurricane Fluttershy, as well as supporting Fluttershy that whole episode, as well as unprioritizing the water record in favor of getting the job done

- Rainbow Dash taking Scootaloo under her wing in Sleepless in Ponyville 

- Rainbow Dash willing to quit the Wonderbolts to do what is right in Wonderbolts Academy

- Rainbow Dash willing to work with Fluttershy and Bulk over the Wonderbolts(and teaching Spitfire another lesson) to support her friends in Rainbow Falls(I'm apparently one of the few people who didn't think Rainbow Falls was Satan's Hellspawn)

- Rainbow Dash calling out Applebloom and Sweetie Belle in Flight to the Finish for leaving Scootaloo back in Ponyville

- Rainbow Dash had her priorities right in Equestria Games when it was more important in trying to win the medal count than winning her race

 

As for being spoon fed a lesson, you're not giving RD any credit apparently. In the episode right before MMDW(where some people think was even more egotistical there...which I personally think is a load of bollocks, but it's worth bringing up nonetheless) she pretty much figures out and delivers on her own, and has done the same in later episodes, as well teaching others lessons in S3/S4

 

The reason I don't feel it works here is because of how forced and unrealistic it feels, with a ton of other bullshit that happens in the episode, with again, the hypocritical nature of the episode stated earlier

 

I don't hate the episode, or at least not as much as I did in the past, but it's still my least favorite episode in the show, and I still feel that a lot of criticism it got was justified

Edited November 18, 2014 by The Sexy Pharaoh

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Yeah I don't see how anyone could say Dash was more egotistical or jerkish in S3 and 4 than in S2, I actually could agree that they made Dash more of a jerk between S1 and S2, I think the first half of S2 for Dash is pretty much the worst half season for any character but starting around Hurricane Fluttershy it's mostly a consistent upswing for her. Seriously go watch Sleepless in Ponyville, Wonderbolts Academy, Flight to the Finish and tell me Dash isn't more mature than she was in Season 2.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

Wait, people think Dash was more egotistical in S3 and 4? Then again, I shouldn't be surprised, since it feels like people try way too hard to declare those seasons bad and only end up being more bitter to those seasons than the Star Wars prequels.

 

Don't you people know something called character development? Dash was most egotistical in season 1 and part of season 2. I actually think her ego went down after Mare do Well. You could argue EQG Rainbow Dash. But that's not actually Rainbow Dash. This Rainbow Dash hasn't learned the lessons that pony Rainbow Dash has learned.

 

As for what makes an episode flawed.

 

Characters being portrayed in a negative light, which was the real problem of Mare Do Well.

 

Stuff being there for the sake of being there, as in Derpy in Rainbow Falls.

 

Oh, and mean spirited, as seen in Mare do Well, Baby Cakes, the cider episode, Owl's Well that ends well, Dragon Quest, One Bad Apple, and other episodes I can't think of off the top of my head.

[takai 1,060]

I would say the most prominent thing to make an episode "Flawed" would be bad characterization or a character being really out of character. It just throws everything out of whack. It's like a domino effect.

[PrymeStriker 408]

Preeeetttyyyy sure he meant that every character in the episode was an egotistical asshole.

I don't remember any one else in the episode being egotistical. If anything, every other character that wasn't the general public of Ponyville were acting better than Rainbow Dash.

 

Also I don't know what show you've been watching, by S3 and S4 she's arguably changed the most of the mane 6, and has toned down her egotistical nature by quite a bit

Episodes at the beginning of season four (Daring Do, off the top of my head), showed that she was still self-indulgent [enough]. A quote from her at the end of that episode:

 

"Came this close to blowing it because I got so wrapped up in how awesome she was, I almost forgot about how awesome I was."

 

The whole third act of that episode felt like they were trying to showcase that point when it really wasn't necessary.

 

Also, from Rainbow Falls:

 

Twilight Sparkle: "Ponyville is very lucky to have you."

Rainbow Dash: "Yeah, I'm pretty awesome."

 

These among others I'm forgetting. It's the fact that this dialogue is so useless and meaningless that drives me insane. Omitting these lines wouldn't have made much difference to anything, but someone writing the scripts said "let's fill a couple of seconds in this episode just to remind everyone that Rainbow Dash is really arrogant."

 

(and obviously they can't, and shouldn't, get rid of it completely since it's a part of her character)

Arrogance and ego was a big part of Smokescreen's arc from Transformers: Prime. He did in 10 episodes what Rainbow Dash is taking four, maybe five, seasons to do. My point being, the shtick's getting old and worn out. This is also why shorter series are generally more successful writing-wise to shows that are being dragged out like this one. Characters take forever to mature drastically.

 

Now, as far as my comments about S3 and 4, I'm referring to the episodes where her dialogue and attitude was completely uncalled for. I am not, however, referring to episodes like "Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3" where her overconfidence was a huge part of the plot and the character ended up developing well.

 

Except that wasn't the case. The that the moral wasn't presented in a pretty hypocritical fashion with her friends. They said that it's a good thing to be a hero "hero's don't brag" which would be fine...except that they're responsible for the same damn mistake*cue scene earlier at Sugar Cube Corner*

Everything that the characters said and did in that scene, and others, was with Rainbow Dash in mind. Knowing she'd get jealous, the other five wanted to show her what she was acting like. It's the kind of moral delivery that forcefully makes the character look in the mirror for a change.

 

Seriously I have not clue on what show you're watching you're watching.

 

If you seriously think Rainbow Dash has regressed since Mare-Do-Well, then consider the following:

- Rainbow Dash leading Ponyville in Hurricane Fluttershy, as well as supporting Fluttershy that whole episode, as well as unprioritizing the water record in favor of getting the job done

Which was season two, 15 episodes after Mare Do Well. The effects of that episode were still pretty recent and her character was much more mature by this point.

 

- Rainbow Dash taking Scootaloo under her wing in Sleepless in Ponyville

Another brilliant episode that I'm not really talking about.

 

- Rainbow Dash willing to quit the Wonderbolts to do what is right in Wonderbolts Academy

I'd be more welcoming of this episode if it wasn't another rehashed moral. This wasn't anything new, especially for this series. Her attitude in this episode, however, was tolerable. I probably shouldn't have mentioned season three, as I'm referring more to the fourth than the third.

 

- Rainbow Dash willing to work with Fluttershy and Bulk over the Wonderbolts(and teaching Spitfire another lesson) to support her friends in Rainbow Falls(I'm apparently one of the few people who didn't think Rainbow Falls was Satan's Hellspawn)

Nothing in this episode should have been a conflict. If anything, the story should have come to a conclusion seven minutes in. It didn't, of course, and we had Rainbow Dash regressing to a state of actually having difficulty choosing between her friends and her dreams. Also, you can refer to the quote I posted above.

 

As for being spoon fed a lesson, you're not giving RD any credit apparently. In the episode right before MMDW(where some people think was even more egotistical there...which I personally think is a load of bollocks, but it's worth bringing up nonetheless) she pretty much figures out and delivers on her own,

She wasn't learning the same lesson in May the Best Pet Win. Yes, she was very egotistical in that episode. However, she wasn't boasting about her accomplishments and self-indulging like she was an episode later. So it's no wonder I didn't bring that up, considering that's not even what I'm talking about.

 

The reason I don't feel it works here is because of how forced and unrealistic it feels,

I disagree with Mare Do Well being forced and unrealistic. It seems like Equsetria got a taste of the real world here, and under the correct circumstances. They weren't just teaching kids a theme here, they were rather subtly addressing the egos of [young] celebrities in the media as I've mentioned before. Basically, I'm trying to defend Mare Do Well as much as possible. Is it one of the best episodes in the series? No way. But I don't think it deserves half as much of the shit it gets compared to the lacks reception of some other episodes.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A couple more things that makes an episode flawed, as if my posts above haven't highlighted them enough, is cliché stories and rehashed morals. If I've heard it before, I don't want to hear it again.

[Megas 27,077]

Episodes at the beginning of season four (Daring Do, off the top of my head), showed that she was still self-indulgent [enough]. A quote from her at the end of that episode:

 

"Came this close to blowing it because I got so wrapped up in how awesome she was, I almost forgot about how awesome I was."

 

The whole third act of that episode felt like they were trying to showcase that point when it really wasn't necessary.

 

Also, from Rainbow Falls:

 

Twilight Sparkle: "Ponyville is very lucky to have you."

Rainbow Dash: "Yeah, I'm pretty awesome."

 

These among others I'm forgetting. It's the fact that this dialogue is so useless and meaningless that drives me insane. Omitting these lines wouldn't have made much difference to anything, but someone writing the scripts said "let's fill a couple of seconds in this episode just to remind everyone that Rainbow Dash is really arrogant."

All I'm getting from you is "Rainbow Dash shouldn't think highly of herself". Why shouldn't she? Is she hurting anyone?

 

 

 

Arrogance and ego was a big part of Smokescreen's arc from Transformers: Prime. He did in 10 episodes what Rainbow Dash is taking four, maybe five, seasons to do. My point being, the shtick's getting old and worn out. This is also why shorter series are generally more successful writing-wise to shows that are being dragged out like this one. Characters take forever to mature drastically.

 

Now, as far as my comments about S3 and 4, I'm referring to the episodes where her dialogue and attitude was completely uncalled for. I am not, however, referring to episodes like "Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3" where her overconfidence was a huge part of the plot and the character ended up developing well.

You mean the same dialogue and attitude that are non issues and aren't doing much damage? Again being brash is one of Rainbow's traits, but I don't see what the problem if 90% of the time it's never hurting anyone

 

 

 

Everything that the characters said and did in that scene, and others, was with Rainbow Dash in mind. Knowing she'd get jealous, the other five wanted to show her what she was acting like. It's the kind of moral delivery that forcefully makes the character look in the mirror for a change.

As I said, the scene does nothing but defeat the entire purpose of the episode. Why act like that knowing it's going to piss someone off? One example people keep using as a way to improve the episode was if the remane 5 were praising each other's feats rather than their own.

 

 

 

 

Which was season two, 15 episodes after Mare Do Well. The effects of that episode were still pretty recent and her character was much more mature by this point.

 

 And at this point you'd realize that she has changed from then on, but instead you're choosing to be difficult 

 

 

 

Another brilliant episode that I'm not really talking about.

How exactly? You said that Rainbow Dash hasn't changed and I gave you(just one) an example of why that's nonsense

 

 

 

I'd be more welcoming of this episode if it wasn't another rehashed moral. This wasn't anything new, especially for this series. Her attitude in this episode, however, was tolerable. I probably shouldn't have mentioned season three, as I'm referring more to the fourth than the third.Nothing in this episode should have been a conflict. If anything, the story should have come to a conclusion seven minutes in. It didn't, of course, and we had Rainbow Dash regressing to a state of actually having difficulty choosing between her friends and her dreams. Also, you can refer to the quote I posted above.

 

On the first point: What rehashed moral are you talking about? "Pushing yourself in the right direction" Isn't a moral I recall seeing earlier...unless you're talking about the "the same moral she learns over and over" that you think magically appears in every Rainbow Dash focus episode(which is complete bollocks)

 

And for the second: I don't see how choosing between your dreams and your friends isn't a difficult choice. I won't lie and say Rainbow Falls was a great episode(though it's no where near as bad as people say it is), but I don't see how her conflict made her so terrible

 

 

 

I disagree with Mare Do Well being forced and unrealistic. It seems like Equsetria got a taste of the real world here, and under the correct circumstances. They weren't just teaching kids a theme here, they were rather subtly addressing the egos of [young] celebrities in the media as I've mentioned before. Basically, I'm trying to defend Mare Do Well as much as possible. Is it one of the best episodes in the series? No way. But I don't think it deserves half as much of the shit it gets compared to the lacks reception of some other episodes.

 

If this was the real world, Rainbow Dash would've tore her friends several new assholes.

 

I'm not victimizing RD here, she was just as much of at fault(to me at least) as the rest of the mane 6 were. The episode was important for her and necessary for her to change, but the approach the episode took left much to be desired

[Will Guide 21,325]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the kind of guy who tends to see the good side of things while most other people tend to see nothing but the bad side.

 

For example, Flash Sentry in the first Equestria Girls. It seems to me that the majority see him as nothing but a bland character that "stole" Twilight. Despite his blandness, I still see him as a nice guy who did what's right when Twilight was wrongfully framed. Weakly executed scene, but still he did what was right.

 

I can acknowledge the flaws that the haters see, but for me, as long as the episode gets some enjoyment out of me, I don't mind.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

Here are most of the reasons why I would consider an episode "flawed":

 

-Poor characterization

-Continuity errors

-Contrived/convenient plot

-Forced humor or dialogue

 

And the most important ones:

 

-Poor moral or poor execution of the moral

-Possible negative subtext

 

All are equally important because kids look up to these characters, and you don't want to send the wrong message by inadvertantly condoning rude, crude, hyperactive, or otherwise anti-social behaviors (such as Pinkie Pie in "Filli Vanilli"), but most importantly, you do NOT want to be responsible for sending unfortunate negative or mixed messages to the impressionable young audience ("Dragon Quest" - possible interpretation that males are only desirable when they play second fiddle to females, and that all other males are disgusting and violent, additionally the entire plot thread of "destiny" and "cutie marks" and the absence of adult blank flanks state that people must absolutely know their one and only one singular purpose in life and stick to it for the rest of their existence without fail, or be subject to ridicule and/or isolation).

 

I should also add some examples of botched morals: the self-sacrifice moral in "The Crystal Empire" was ruined and the narrative tension was weakened by an annoying and absolutely contrived plot element that makes the conflict seem self-centered and not altruistic, additionally the moral of "Games Ponies Play" was pulled out of an unimportant subplot that was barely touched on throughout the second act.

 

When you have an audience of kids, you have to be accountable for the messages you portray, and unfortunately few shows do this these days. It's best that we keep this show honest to uphold that standard of quality.

 

The reason why we watch and talk about this show this way is simple. We answer why we like this show and what it does right as opposed to some other show, and what really sets it apart. If you look at it critically, you will more ably separate the gems from the junk.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Wind Chaser

[PrymeStriker 408]

All I'm getting from you is "Rainbow Dash shouldn't think highly of herself". Why shouldn't she? Is she hurting anyone?

No, but it's annoying the hell out of several viewers, including myself. Just because you can ignore the dialogue doesn't mean others have to as well.

 

You mean the same dialogue and attitude that are non issues and aren't doing much damage? Again being brash is one of Rainbow's traits, but I don't see what the problem if 90% of the time it's never hurting anyone

 

Is the CMC arc hurting anyone? No. Is it annoying and repetitive? Yes. There is no difference between this and the too many of Rainbow Dash's portrayals whenever she's not the focus post-Mare Do Well

 

As I said, the scene does nothing but defeat the entire purpose of the episode. Why act like that knowing it's going to piss someone off? One example people keep using as a way to improve the episode was if the remane 5 were praising each other's feats rather than their own.

Why act like that knowing it's going to piss someone off? Maybe because your goal is to piss that someone off? The whole point of Mare Do Well was to give RD a taste of her own medicine. It's not like complimenting each other's actions was going to make a difference considering Dash wouldn't have known the difference at the time.

 

And at this point you'd realize that she has changed from then on, but instead you're choosing to be difficult

 

But I'm talking about her attitude and dialogue in S4 while you're bringing up earlier episodes as well as episodes that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Honestly, the only episode you've brought up that had any validity against my claim was "Wonderbolt's Academy."

 

How exactly? You said that Rainbow Dash hasn't changed and I gave you(just one) an example of why that's nonsense

 

I said she's regressing by forgetting lessons she's learned and slowly becoming more arrogant. That implies there was a point in time when the character was progressing. Sleepless in Ponyville is the height from which she fell from. And, to be honest, the episode was brilliant because of Scootaloo. I couldn't have cared less about Rainbow Dash, despite her being a major plot device.

 

On the first point: What rehashed moral are you talking about? "Pushing yourself in the right direction" Isn't a moral I recall seeing earlier...unless you're talking about the "the same moral she learns over and over" that you think magically appears in every Rainbow Dash focus episode(which is complete bollocks)

Rainbow Dash pushes herself in the right direction all the time. Friendship is Magic, Part 2, May the Best Pet Win, The Mysterious Mare Do Well, Rainbow Falls, etc. More specifically, RD's whole motivation was her loyalty to her friends, which has been part of or was entirely the theme of at least three RD episodes.

 

And for the second: I don't see how choosing between your dreams and your friends isn't a difficult choice. I won't lie and say Rainbow Falls was a great episode(though it's no where near as bad as people say it is), but I don't see how her conflict made her so terrible

Because it's the Shadow Bolts scene in FIMP2 stretched out into 22 minutes. That's about as bluntly as I can put it.

 

If this was the real world, Rainbow Dash would've tore her friends several new assholes.

 

I meant that it addressed the real world nicely, but you may take that out of context if you want.

 

Thank you, iPad, for posting my reply before I was finished with it.

Edited November 19, 2014 by PrymeStriker

[Gernia 690]

For me, I first look at what topic the episode is approaching and what lesson it's trying to teach. Then, I look at how it approaches this concept. In other words, I judge it based on what it strives for and whether or not it succeeds in doing so. I believe that is what's most fair to the episode and can give me the most valid viewpoint, plus it's probably the closest I can get to saying something is objectively good or bad.

 

With that said, if there are any needlessly awkward moments or traits of any kind, that can be a flaw. I also look to see if there is anything that is just plain stupid. Since I have watched every episode, I believe that most of the episodes in the four seasons so far are good, with few that are average or even downright terrible.

 

In short: if an episode, when taken on its own terms, does not do a good job with the message it portrays and the concept it approaches, then it would be a flawed episode in my opinion.

[Roughshod 719]

The ability to think and form a critical opinion on a subject matter. Without this nothing is flawed or flawless.

[Megas 27,077]

No, but it's annoying the hell out of several viewers, including myself. Just because you can ignore the dialogue doesn't mean others have to as well.

Then your letting a lot of small and trivial nonsense bug you too easily

 

 

 

 

Why act like that knowing it's going to piss someone off? Maybe because your goal is to piss that someone off? The whole point of Mare Do Well was to give RD a taste of her own medicine. It's not like complimenting each other's actions was going to make a difference considering Dash wouldn't have known the difference at the time.

It would, however, improve the delivery of the moral by not having the remane 5 come off as hypocritical assholes

 

 

 

But I'm talking about her attitude and dialogue in S4 while you're bringing up earlier episodes as well as episodes that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Honestly, the only episode you've brought up that had any validity against my claim was "Wonderbolt's Academy."

Except I did bring examples in season 4, you just chose to ignore it, and I don't see how the earlier episodes aren't irrelevant

 

 

 

 

Rainbow Dash pushes herself in the right direction all the time. Friendship is Magic, Part 2, May the Best Pet Win, The Mysterious Mare Do Well, Rainbow Falls, etc. More specifically, RD's whole motivation was her loyalty to her friends, which has been part of or was entirely the theme of at least three RD episodes.

Friendship is Magic Part 2 - She chooses helping her friends and saving Celestia over the Shadowbolts

May the Best Pet Win - Don't take things for granted

The Mysterious Mare Do Well - It's great to be good at something, but it's important to show humility

 

and while I'm at it

 

Sonic Rainboom - Be there for your friends(granted Rarity learned the episode, but it's a RD episode)

Read it and Weap - Don't knock it before you try it

Wonderbolts Academy - Push yourself, but push yourself in the right direction

Games Ponies Play(RD learns the moral so it counts) - Helping others to get what they always wanted but never had and that it's almost as good as getting it yourself

Daring Don't - Always trust yourself and others

Testing Testing 123 - Everyone has a different way of learning

 

 

Yup, they all definitely sound the same

The only episode that feels rehashed is Rainbow Falls, which is as you already said, more or less an extension of the Shadowbolt trial in the pilot

 

Yeah, they all have a theme surrounding loyalty, but I seriously don't see why that's a problem, she IS the element of loyalty

 

 

 

I meant that it addressed the real world nicely, but you may take that out of context if you want.

Just because it's a taste of the real world doesn't mean it's right, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this

 

 

 

Anyway I'm done, if this argument has told me anything, your gonna be impossible to reason with

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

@@Dark Qiviut, very nice post.  While I don't agree with all of your examples, I do agree with all of your thesis statements.  Very well-thought out.

 

In addition to that, I'll just emphasize one point for me: while some episodes are obviously better than others, the only thing that makes me actually dislike an episode is when a character episode I actually dislike to the point of not wanting to rewatch it is The Last Roundup, due to AJ's ludicrous behavior.  I understand that she was embarrassed to admit that she lost, and I understand that she is stubborn.  I have some stupid, irrational things that make me feel embarrassed.  But she took it way too far.  After all they've been through, I just can't believe that she would flat out refuse to be honest with them.  I can understand it taking a little prodding, but to run away again and lead her friends on a dangerous chase...that was asinine.  And she never decided to come clean.  That's the biggest problem.  She was tackled, and her bag with the 2nd place ribbons spilled out, so she had no choice but to tell the truth.  If she could have taken it to her grave, she apparently would have.  If she had escaped, would she have actually exiled herself and abandoned her friends forever?  Did she really believe that they would disown her for coming in second?  Did she really believe that they thought that little of her?  Did she think that little of them?  She knows better than that.  I just couldn't respect her in behavior in that episode.  That's really the only show-breaking flaw that sticks out for me.

[The Seventh Octave 26]

Any episode can be forgiven as long as it is entertaining and does not do something offensive. 

 

However, I tend to cross the line at character federalization or just being badly written in general. 

[PrymeStriker 408]

I don't see how the earlier episodes aren't irrelevant

Because I'm specifically talking about S4. Bringing up examples from S2 isn't going to change anything since I've made it pretty clear that season two, and even season three to an extent, handled Rainbow Dash really well.

 

Friendship is Magic Part 2 - She chooses helping her friends and saving Celestia over the Shadowbolts

May the Best Pet Win - Don't take things for granted

The Mysterious Mare Do Well - It's great to be good at something, but it's important to show humility

 

and while I'm at it

 

Sonic Rainboom - Be there for your friends(granted Rarity learned the episode, but it's a RD episode)

Read it and Weap - Don't knock it before you try it

Wonderbolts Academy - Push yourself, but push yourself in the right direction

Games Ponies Play(RD learns the moral so it counts) - Helping others to get what they always wanted but never had and that it's almost as good as getting it yourself

Daring Don't - Always trust yourself and others

Testing Testing 123 - Everyone has a different way of learning

 

Yup, they all definitely sound the same

What? I didn't say every Rainbow Dash episode had the same theme.

 

P.S: the "at least three" episodes I was referring to are FiMP2, Rainbow Falls, and Trade Ya.

 

Yeah, they all have a theme surrounding loyalty, but I seriously don't see why that's a problem, she IS the element of loyalty

Despite the fact that I never said it was a problem, I will say that using a characters' element or shtick constantly for their focus episodes (i.e Fluttershy) is a very weak route to take and, as to address the topic, is a terrible way conduct themes and storylines in general. Especially when you've done it before already.

 

Just because it's a taste of the real world doesn't mean it's right,

There's no right and wrong when addressing the ego of celebrities in the modern world. It's just a fact.

 

Anyway I'm done, if this argument has told me anything, your gonna be impossible to reason with

Not sure why you find me impossible to reason with since I'm not being stubborn, but this is pretty basic point-counterpoint debating. I don't know how we've managed to take this conversation out beyond Mare Do Well, but my original point was that this episode is not the problem and is not bad by any means. It's one of the most clever and well-thought out episodes in the series, but its execution and effects 20+ episodes later have made it pretty useless. Perhaps this also contributes to its reputation. Looking at this episode on its own, the Mysterious Mare Do Well is realistic and honest. It doesn't skate around anything to get right to the point, and the other main characters' reaction and dealing with Rainbow Dash was not, by any stretch of the conceivable imagination, hypocritical. This trope is used in books, films, TV, and real life all the time. If you (the fandom, not you personally) can't get past that because it's not your particular way of dealing with the situation, I don't know what to tell you. I've seen people act like jerks around jerks to show them that they are jerks in real life and the realms of storytelling. It's the intent that matters in this situation, not the delivery.

[sweetolebob18 724]

Can't remember which Supreme Court justice said it, but in the early 1960s, but speaking of porno.  He said "I can't precisely define it, but I know it when I see it"  I feel the same way about bad episodes.  As for some examples given

 

The CMC episodes are more for kids than for us adults.  I mean, it has been 45+ years since I worried about school bullies.  You want to talk about sexual harassment in the work place or when to do an intervention for a friend, that is something I could use.  I find them less interesting, but they aren't too bad.

 

Ponyville Confidential, the ponies are hypocrites. This surprises you? You haven't been paying attention  Ponies love the CMCs -as long as it's somebody else being exposed.  When it affects them, oh that's different.  That's the worst thing anybody ever did in the history of the world!  That is just so common, I can't remember the number of times I've seen it.  I'll go further, some of the ponies they exposed became their enemies for life.  I'd bet the rent money on it & even the ones who forgive will never forget.

 

Bridal Gossip.  Pinkie is racist?  In Luna Eclipsed, it is revealed that Pinkie thinks being scared is fun.  She says Z is an Evil Enchantress because it is fun to be terrorized by an Evil Enchantress. (P is usually absolutely incapable of grasping the fact that the world contains things that might harm her.  Even things that are actively trying to kill her, as at Cadence's wedding)  I will point out she called Z an Evil Enchantress long before she ever heard of Zebras or had any idea that Z had stripes.

 

That being said, I do think Ponyville is racist.  Less so than Real Life & it is pretty subtle.  But, though all are equal, some are more equal than others.