spoiler Season 5 short rant

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

I'm really enjoying season five. I think it's shaping up to be my favorite season. Especially since this week's episode was such an unexpected joy for me to watch. I am quite a fan of old mystery novels and film noir. "Rarity Investigates" was wonderful! I won't say Rarity is my least favorite pony, but suddenly...

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!

 

Now I see her in a totally new light. Who knew that out beloved Fashionista was also a brilliant and intrepid detective! I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see more episodes where she stylishly solves crimes. The only thing that would have made "Rarity Investigates" better, would have been if she helped clear Rainbow of a MURDER rap! Although the mystery presented was quite basic, they had Rarity work the case quite nicely. As I said in another forum, Nick and Nora Charles would have been proud of her.

 

I think the episode proves that the writers are still giving us their "A" game. I can't wait to see where else they'll lead us this season!

[cider float 2,535]

Season 5 has the worst writing so far save for a few ones like Griffonstone and Rarity Investigates

[Guest]

 

Well, I feel a bit like the Reliant ominously closing in on the Enterprise right now, but... Key, this needs to be said...

 

 

First of all, by complaining about how the show has been sprinkling epic adventure set pieces amid the sit. comedy, you're complaining about something that has always been, rather than this being a new direction the show has recently taken as you claim. A while back, a friend of mine described the bulk of Friendship is Magic as depicting what adventurers do with their time when there aren't any dragons that need slaying, and I thought that was very apt. Most of the episodes are slice of life focused, sure, but every once in a while we knuckle down and go on a big adventure. I mean come on, the words "big adventure!" are right there in the theme song! 

 

Then there's the fact that you are massively overstating the amount of influence the Cutie Map has actually had. Even if I agreed with you that this pony equivalent of Zordon was being mishandled, the fact is that, to date, only one episode in thirteen has actually involved the map (two in nineteen counting episode 16 to 21, which aren't out yet, but we know their contents). It honestly concerns me that you can look at something that's been used exactly once in the half a season after it was introduced (or twice in the first two thirds counting episode 16) and then turn around and claim the map is dominating everything and has become the only thing that matters. Something that's used barely once in every ten episodes is hardly dominating anything.

 

Morever, how is the map saying, "go and deal with these gryphons!" really any different from Twilight getting a letter from Celestia saying, "go and deal with this dragon!" in Dragonshy? Again, there have always been episodes where Twilight (or other members of the Mane Six) has been acting an official capacity of some kind.

 

 

So... most of them? Episodes 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 14 were solely focused on slice of life. And whilst some measure of adventure related stuff did happen in 4, 13, and 15, only episode 8 (Griffonstone) actually involved the map. I'd hardly call that "every other" episode. Counting 16 to 21 only weakens your argument further, since that gives us one map episode and another five pure slice of life episodes.

 

Indeed, let's quickly look at how many times the Mane Six dealt with something that posed a threat to a significant portion of the kingdom (at least one town or city) in each season, shall we?

 

Season 1: 1&2, 6, 7, 10, 21

Season 2: 1&2, 8, 10, 20, 25&26

Season 3: 1&2, 3, 5

Season 4: 1&2, 4, 23, 25&26

Season 5: 1&2, 8, 9

 

Well gee, it's almost like the number of significant threats is comparable from season to season, usually consisting of the season opener, season finale, and a couple of other adventures here and there amid the remaining 22 episodes...

 

 

In the words of Jean-Luc Picard, most certainly I deny it. Even ignoring the fact that a lot of people (although I'm not one of them) don't actually like Ticket Master very much, I fail to see how we aren't still in those days. "I don't want my pet to go to sleep for the winter. Let the humour commence". "I want my friends to redecorate my home. Let the humor commence". "I want to make up for neglecting an old friend but she won't have a bar of it. Let the humor commence". See what I mean?

 

As for the villains, first of all, the DBZ thing only happened once. Sure it was a bit indulgent, but I think we can allow the writers and animators to have a bit of fun and make things bigger and more epic just for the season finale, don't you? And even then it's not universal. Magical Mystery Cure didn't have anything like that and the season openers have all been comparatively restrained. And Discord, who you claim to like, was the villain for two of the five of them. But in any case, having a more epic story for the opener  and finale makes perfectly good sense, even in a comedy show. And the numbers don't lie, either. Going by the IMDB scores, Canterlot Wedding and Twilight's Kingdom are among the most well-loved episodes of all, so your whole "forgot what made people love these" argument doesn't hold any water. And yet Crystal Empire gets somewhat lower scores, so conversely it's also clear people aren't just lapping the epic stories up just because they're epic.:

 

http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt1751105

 

Additionally, dark villains have been a staple of MLP since the beginning, to the point where the My Little Pony and Friends era villains from the 80s were actually darker than than the "dark" villains of our current times. G4 Tirek might have sucked up a bunch of magic and turned into a giant (who didn't even go on to cause any property damage, I should stress), but I'm just saying he never literally chained ponies up with unpadded metal collars... In fact, pony enslavement (including putting fillies in unpadded metal collars) happened multiple times in the 80s cartoon, and was a lot more hardcore than it was depicted in A Dog and Pony Show.

 

Not only that, but if you count the comics, the heroes were more hardcore in G1 as well. Unlike Celestia, Majesty straight up murdered her enemies by transforming them into inanimate objects on multiple occasions and G1 Applejack accidentally killed an evil wizard in the G1 comics as well when she ran into his throne in the dark and knocked him down a fissure. The latter was also the comic where it was revealed that the glimmer-eyed ponies had been rendered blind by being forced to work in a gemstone mine with no light, and then when Applejack smashed the jewel wizard's throne the gemstones the throne was encrusted with flew into their eye sockets like so much pipe bomb shrapnel and this somehow restored their sight and gave them their famous gemstone-shaped irises. I'll happily provide links if you think I'm kidding you, by the way. This really happened...

 

But anyway, I'll wrap this up before I get too far off-track. In the end, I just don't see your point with regards how the show has 'changed direction' (season 5 has, counting 16-21, so far had only two overarching story episodes apart from the opener and finale, whereas season 4 had four key episodes, two Equestria Games episodes, and one episode that was both), I don't see your point with regards the the Cutie Map supposedly 'dominating' the proceedings, and even if having epic finales that are slightly more serious but still comedic (as opposed to the purely comedic slice of life episodes you seem to prize) than usual does go against your grain, that still, as I have demonstrated, leaves the overwhelming majority of each season, including season 5, available for you to enjoy.

 

I suppose I can see your points (though there are some I would nitpick), but I guess what I am trying to say is that the show definitely feels different to me. And I apologize if I was coming off as aggressive or seeming like I was saying that the comedic episodes were the only good ones. I do not "prize" them, but I definitely feel that the show has a different feeling than it did in the earlier seasons.

 

Do not mistake me though: I do not hate season 3+, I even find some elements of them superior, but as far as the stories go, I do not feel they are as strong.

 

I will admit though, you make a compelling argument and have bested me. I shall be more careful when constructing my points from now on. You win this one.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Guest

[Captain Trek 32]

That's perfectly fair enough (although I'd advise not quoting my entire post next time as it just takes up space for no good reason. Maybe replace my words with just *snip* or something to that effect?). I don't think we can really help the way we feel, but it's always a good idea to try to examine why it is that we feel the way we do and see if the facts bare out our instinctual reactions. Because if they do you can then construct solid arguments to support your position, and if they don't you can try to work on viewing things from a more intellectual perspective so your feelings don't cause you to reject something there isn't actually anything wrong with. :3

[superdogz1999 551]

To me Season 5 so far was about meh. There were good episodes in the Season like "Amending Fences" but the episodes had a little bit of a decline compared to watching a Season 2 episode. One of the bad things was Spike's episode in the season. The writer of the episode may have thought of the formula of making a Spike centred episode, Making the episode a piece of rubbish. I would like to see less CMC episodes as they are a distraction to the Episodes of the Mane 6 and other characters in the very late parts of Season 5 and onto Season 6. (Even though I like the CMC) I would also in those late parts, to bring back the Journal Entries from Season 4 or something similar to them.

But as OP said about his opinion about Season 5, employing better writers would be a good option.

Edited September 22, 2015 by superdogz1999

[Limeblossom 482]

But I totally understand, especially the 3rd one~! <3 =D=D=D

Thanks.

 

 

He's a kid, for god's sake. It's no surprise that a kid would do something like that.

Still no excuse for finger-crossing.

 

 

Nobody forces you to watch the series, but at the same time, you can't force us to stop enjoying it.

I never said that I continue to watch future episodes.

employing better writers would be a good option.

It would make me watch the series again. But it's gonna be a Hell of a job to fix the stuff.

[Captain Trek 32]

I find it kind of amusing how Superdogz has almost exactly the same flawed arguement that Key Sharkz had. Oh, the season is terrible because Spike and CMC! Again, how is this anything new?

Season 1: 3 CMC episodes, 1 Spike episode
Season 2: 5 CMC, 2 Spike
Season 3: 2 CMC, 2 Spike (in a half-length season!)
Season 4: 4 CMC, 2 Spike
Season 5: 4 CMC, 1 Spike (with the contents of three episodes yet to be revealed)

Also, dogz, you, Key, and Limeblossom all claim the quality of the show's writing has declined, but without specifying exactly where this poor quality writing actually is aside from vague allusions to Spike and CMC episodes, which again have always been full of clunkers since the beginning and thus are in no way indicative of an overall decline in the show's writing. Keep in mind, Thye Show Stoppers (a season 1 CMC episode) is widely considered one of the worst episodes in the entire series!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Captain Trek

[Guest]

I find it kind of amusing how Superdogz has almost exactly the same flawed arguement that Key Sharkz had. Oh, the season is terrible because Spike and CMC! Again, how is this anything new?

 

Season 1: 3 CMC episodes, 1 Spike episode

Season 2: 5 CMC, 2 Spike

Season 3: 2 CMC, 2 Spike (in a half-length season!)

Season 4: 4 CMC, 2 Spike

Season 5: 4 CMC, 1 Spike (with the contents of three episodes yet to be revealed)

 

Also, dogz, you, Key, and Limeblossom all claim the quality of the show's writing has declined, but without specifying exactly where this poor quality writing actually is aside from vague allusions to Spike and CMC episodes, which again have always been full of clunkers since the beginning and thus are in no way indicative of an overall decline in the show's writing. Keep in mind, Thye Show Stoppers (a season 1 CMC episode) is widely considered one of the worst episodes in the entire series!

Poor quality writing is subjective. So no we are not suffering from the same "argument flaws". It is in our opinion that we do not feel the episodes are up to snuff. We are not "wrong" to feel that way. I handled your criticism quite well before, but now you're kind of just trying to rub my nose in it, and I'm going to have to ask you to tone it down please.

[Captain Trek 32]

Apologies for the terse tone of the last post (it was late and I was tired). I'm not trying to be unkind, I'm just trying to figure out where you and the others are actually coming from. Just saying, "In my opinion, the quality of the show's writing has declined" is fine and all, but that opinion doesn't do much good unless you can point to specific things the writers did better in previous seasons (which is why I feel pointing to the typically terrible Spike and CMC episodes isn't helpful, since whilst it certainly would be nice if those improved, bad Spike and CMC episodes simply don't represent a quality decrease from the usual average, which is what you claim is happening in season 5) and need to work on improving for season 6. Granted the writers aren't going to be reading these posts, but criticism is always better when its constructive.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I actually quite like an increased focus on adventure. That being said, the map has given zero increase in that really. Apart from the premier, which was incredibly low key as far as two parters go, all the missions its given us have been just peaceful ones of talking. There wasn't a monster or antagonist in TLTOG, and the next map episode is about fixing up a theater.
There's no power rangers vibe there.



On that note though, I actually have felt pretty lukewarm about this season. the box was interesting and made me excited for what was to come in S4, plus it felt like there was alot more action and adventure in that season. the overall lowkey premier, coupled with the lack of any real buildup from the map (The box makes you ask "Whats in the box"?! with an assurance that there was SOMETHING in it, like a magical present), makes me feel a bit unenthused.

So I'd actually quite enjoy it if the opposite happened and we got some more action here and missions XD

[Captain Trek 32]

For me, it doesn't really concern me if a build up doesn't pay off as spectacularly as it could since the first three seasons of the show did just fine without trying to build anything in particular up. However, although I felt Lost Treasure was a great episode regardless of the lack of action, I'd certainly agree that I wouldn't complain at all if the map was used more. I'm not gonna get hung up about it, though. But that's just me. I wouldn't agree with you overall since I feel the quality of individual episodes trumps everything else, including a mediocre meta-narrative, but I can see why you might be unimpressed by the season because of that.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Captain Trek

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

So, the majority of CMC episodes are bad?

[Captain Trek 32]

Not neccessarily, but there's been at least one major stinker from the CMC (at least according to the majority opinion) every season. From the info graphic I linked to, Show Stoppers, Cutie Pox, One Bad Apple, Somepony to Watch Over Me, and Appleoosa's Most Wanted all rate extremely poorly. I personally don't think Cutie Pox was that bad and that Appleoosa's Most Wanted was actually decent, but then on the other hand I didn't think Bloom and Gloom was all that good despite it rating third highest of all the season 5 episodes thus far (except Rarity Investigates, which the graphic hasn't been updated with yet) on the infographic, so it pretty much evens out.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Captain Trek

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Not neccessarily, but there's been at least one major stinker from the CMC (at least according to the majority opinion) every season. From the info graphic I linked to, Show Stoppers, Cutie Pox, One Bad Apple, Somepony to Watch Over Me, and Appleoosa's Most Wanted all rate extremely poorly. I personally don't think Cutie Pox was that bad and that Appleoosa's Most Wanted was actually decent, but then on the other hand I didn't think Bloom and Gloom was all that good despite it rating third highest of all the season 5 episodes thus far (except Rarity Investigates, which the graphic hasn't been updated with yet) on the infographic, so it pretty much evens out.

Aren't most of the episodes you listed widely considered to be among the worst in the show?

 

Also, Rarity Investigates only got 307k viewers. Ouch.

 

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2015/09/rating-for-rarity-investigates-are-in.html#idc-container

Edited September 23, 2015 by VG_Addict

[Captain Trek 32]

Umm, yeah? That's exactly the point I'm making to say that bad (and indeed very bad) CMC episodes, as with Spike episodes, are nothing new and thus cannot really be cited as a sign the show is getting worse.

 

However, that's only 5 out of 18 CMC episodes, so I'm not going to blanketly claim that the "majority" of CMC episodes are bad.

[immblueversion 331]

- Why the CMC are afraid of Discord?

- Fan VAs should've been in the 100th episode

 

If the fan VAs were officially in the show, they wouldn't be able to keep being fan VAs anymore. That is to say, no more famade videos with them in it. They'd pretty much be contracted to lose all control of what works they'd be able to voice those characters.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Slice of Life is exactly the type of episode that this show should NOT make.

 

I think the best episodes of the season have been ones centered on a mane six character and focusing on their flaws and struggles (Amending Fences, Canterlot Boutique, and Scare Master). Now there have been some bad ones, like Tanks For The Memories and Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep, but those both scaled the conflicts up to absurd levels, which in their case hurt them imo.

[Guest]

Aren't most of the episodes you listed widely considered to be among the worst in the show?

 

Also, Rarity Investigates only got 307k viewers. Ouch.

 

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2015/09/rating-for-rarity-investigates-are-in.html#idc-container

Yeah but someone pointed out before that a lot of people are cutting the cable for premium networks like Discovery kids, so naturally the viewership is down. A lot of fans wait for the netflix release these days or watch on streaming sites where there is no way to realistically track statistics.

[Sugar Cube 4,843]

You know, threads like this one pop up every season. There was a plethora of complaints during season 3, and plenty more during season 4. That isn't to say that fans don't have valid reasons to be disappointed with the show, but it's just as likely that we simply lose interest over time and are uncomfortable with the show changing the status quo up too much. Every season it seems the writers are taking the show in a new direction in an attempt to keep things fresh and interesting, and that can be an acquired taste for some. I for one am happy to see the show is more than just slice of life, and that it can evolve and show real change and development each time instead of sticking with the same tired formula.

 

And with that, I will respectfully disagree with the OP. The Cutie Mark Crusaders are not, and have never been a "distraction" and especially when they've only starred in two episodes so far. I still don't understand the complaints about Spike. I don't usually enjoy his episodes as much as the other characters either, but I'd hardly say he's being written badly, or that he's somehow worse than before. Are his actions in Princess Spike any less "trustworthy" than his actions in Owl's Well That Ends Well? Because I'm not seeing it. He's a mistake-prone child with good intentions and always has been. And lastly, I certainly don't want more of Derpy and Dr. Whooves, and especially not the Lebowski ponies. They're great for occasional fan pandering if that's your thing, but they are not, have never been, and should not be the stars of the show.

[Limeblossom 482]

And lastly, I certainly don't want more of Derpy and Dr. Whooves, and especially not the Lebowski ponies. They're great for occasional fan pandering if that's your thing, but they are not, have never been, and should not be the stars of the show.

They have enough potention for good episodes. That also goes for Button Mash (I also sympathize with him since I'm a gamer too and could relate to him ).

 

I don´t now how long this thread will be, if the admin is planning to close it.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

And with that, I will respectfully disagree with the OP. The Cutie Mark Crusaders are not, and have never been a "distraction" and especially when they've only starred in two episodes so far.

 

They have at least one more this season with Raiders of the lost mark, and they might end up featuring into the mane attraction due to the cutie mark focus there as well.

They're getting more attention this season (far more) than spike at least, and certainly more than Celestia. Its more a opportunity cost problem IMO. If you give the CMC time, you're taking it from another pony that might deserve it more.

[Limeblossom 482]

If you give the CMC time, you're taking it from another pony that might deserve it more.

I completely agree with you. As I said earlier, there are enough potential characters to make stories for. Look at the 4 ponies from The Cutie Map who helped the Mane 6 to stop Starlight Glimmer.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Limeblossom

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

But Spike hasn't had that many good episodes. Can you even name some?

[Sugar Cube 4,843]

They have at least one more this season with Raiders of the lost mark, and they might end up featuring into the mane attraction due to the cutie mark focus there as well.

They're getting more attention this season (far more) than spike at least, and certainly more than Celestia. Its more a opportunity cost problem IMO. If you give the CMC time, you're taking it from another pony that might deserve it more.

 

Even with 3 episodes, or possibly 4 this season, that's not any more episodes in a season than they've had before.

 

S1: 3 (Call of the Cutie, Stare Master, Show Stoppers)

S2: 4 (Cutie Pox, Family Appreciation Day, Hearts and Hooves Day, Ponyville Confidential)

S3: 2 (One Bad Apple, Sleepless in Ponyville)

S4: 4 (Flight to the Finish, Twilight Time, Somepony to Watch Over Me, For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils)

 

Really now, we're not getting any more CMC focus here in this season than in any season prior. I fail to see why this is a complaint now when the CMC have always had lots of episodes of focus throughout the entire duration of the series. Celestia has never been a focal point of the show's stories, so why is it suddenly an issue now? I can understand wanting more Spike, perhaps, but I admit that it's ironic that people want more of him and yet at the same time complain about his episodes and character portrayal. But to say it's the CMC that are "taking" time from other characters is silly, because they're occupying the same number of episodes as they always do because they are also fairly major characters in the series. You could just as easily pin the blame on the Luna, Discord, and background pony episodes for why there's less Spike and no Celestia. They're upping the ante on fandom favorite characters instead of the already established mains.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

But Spike hasn't had that many good episodes. Can you even name some?

Dragon Quest, Secret to my Excess, and Spike At Your Service.