Should friendship fail to save the day?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

I want to see the element bearers fail to defeat a villain, at some point. And really, on more than one occasion. I get that "Friendship is Magic", but does anyone think that that's used for every situation a little too much? That they should be able to fail, on occasion?

Personally, while not a fan of Cadance or Shining Armor, I want to see the power of the Crystal heart come in to save the day, where the 6 elements fail. The power of love.

And there's a lot to be explored with the crystal heart, too.

Does it also work like the Tree? (I would LOVE to see it give Spike- 2 time hero of the Empire some cool new powers to help save the day)

But what are everyone's thoughts on the power of love getting more spotlight with villain throwdowns?

Edited December 7, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[Marimo 555]

I don't see Cadance, Shining Armor, or the Crystal Empire being the ones to save the day. They had their focus when they were being introduced in the season 2 finale and season 3 premiere, and at this point with the possibility of the show ending being higher than what it was, I don't think they would feel the need to revisit and make them the focus of another two parter when they probably have other plans that connect to a seasonal arc or theme that involves the mane six.

 

And with all the buildup the Elements and other Tree of Harmony related sources have had, being stronger than all of the magic of everypony else in Equestria, it's going to be hard to buy that the Crystal Heart can match being that strong, or a threat even stronger in power than Tirek at full power.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Marimo

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

This is a show for a young audience, with the title "Friendship is magic," in an obviously idealistic society that has friendship as the most powerful source in the universe.

 

This won't happen. It's more likely that i listen to dubstep. (No offence dubstep fans. )

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

>love saving the day

 

Well, it would work if they had a villain attack the crystal empire, allowing for a focus on love. they're kind of doing that already in the current comic arc if it ends up with Hope and Sombra's relatonship saving the day.

Past that, another option that would work would be a Situation involving Spike and Rarity; the two of them have a very close relationship, and love kind of saved the day with Spike being turned back into his normal form by Rarity. Likewise, Rarity being saved from being nightmare moon in the comic had a very heavy focus on Spike and her relationship, with the heart gem he gave her reforming from its shattered pieces as she was purified to drive the point home.

 

 

 

after that though you run into issues using love. None of the mane six (sans possibly spike/rarity) have any love interests (besides flash in EQG), and adding them in is a possible minefield, yeah? So that leaves Cadence and shining as the best options for using love.
But the thing is, the show is HIGHLY toy driven. And hasbro seems to have almost completely forgotten about Shining and cadence existing, tending to have their toylines revolve around twilight. So the odds of them making an entire Two parter focus around "old news" characters like cadence and shining armor seems unlikely.

[Silver Stream. 708]

I would not be satisfied with Cadence an Shining armor being the best options for love being I see them both as only static characters with little no genuine affection being shown or developed when it comes to their relationship. I cannot deny how they seem fond of one another and I'm NOT saying they don't love each other, but I see a better love story between Cranky and Mitilda or better yet....The Cake Couple than I do with Cadence and Shining Armor. 

 

Granted, I'm aware there is more back story on how they found each other within the IDW comics, but being many people consider only half canon and the other half to be fillers and I personally don't like to tie two and two together without an official answer from the creators as to whether or not the comics are canon, I don't rely on them heavily. 

 

Cadence and Shining Armor seems more like a fairytale thing. Which I never found myself to relate to......it's nothing wrong with it though? It's nice to give fans something they desire and that's a perfect relationship. But I personally love more developed relationships where I'm able to witness the effort of reaching love or how well one works with the other. Cadence an shining Armor were pretty much thrown at us.....The Cakes are my favorite couple because they do well to complete each other. They don't have to stare in each other's eyes or save the day for us to see how they are committed to each and their business and their babies. I love how they intereact with each other and the other mane characters and despite their brief appearances they strike me as that genuine couple with a true love story to tell even if it lacks the excitement and magic many may desire. 

 

Cranky and Mitilda are a close second, but their relationship seems one sided. Cranky travels the world to look for his love while Mitilda is like "aww thank you". 

 

 

 

 

Besides....haven't we've been given an episode in which the power of love saves the day? The same primiere that shoved Cadence an Shining at us is the same premier in which their love for one another defeats Chrysilas right? 

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

Like how in Sonic Unleashed Robotnik had enough of the chaos emeralds and beat Super Sonic. If someone could harness harmony for evil purposes, they'd be screwed. I know many hate the first EQG, but Sunset Shimmer did corrupt the elements( which go into the tree) so it's possible. Chrysalis connecting the tree of harmony to her hive? Sombra doing the same? Tirek may have the same idea?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

I don't see Cadance, Shining Armor, or the Crystal Empire being the ones to save the day. They had their focus when they were being introduced in the season 2 finale and season 3 premiere, and at this point with the possibility of the show ending being higher than what it was, I don't think they would feel the need to revisit and make them the focus of another two parter when they probably have other plans that connect to a seasonal arc or theme that involves the mane six.

 

And with all the buildup the Elements and other Tree of Harmony related sources have had, being stronger than all of the magic of everypony else in Equestria, it's going to be hard to buy that the Crystal Heart can match being that strong, or a threat even stronger in power than Tirek at full power.

who said the heart had to be stronger than the elements? There could be situations where rainbow blasts don't work against a certain villain, and something else is needed- I.e. the heart. Or where the mane 6 are stripped of their power the tree of harmony destroyed, and backup is needed. Which is where the heart/ Spike would come in, and wreck sh*t

And fyi, the elements alone couldn't defeat the sirens in Rainbow focks. They needed Sunset Shimmer. So the bearers are proven to need help, sometimes, defeating baddies, and that 6 alone isn't enough for some of them

[Marimo 555]

 

 

There could be situations where rainbow blasts don't work against a certain villain, and something else is needed- I.e. the heart.

And just what is somehow immune to harmony, but not to love when the two already have similar qualities?

 

 

 

Or where the mane 6 are stripped of their power

What power? The Elements and Rainbow Power came from the tree. They just have the ability to wield that power (and Discord already tried a plan to make them unable to do that).

 

 

 

the tree of harmony destroyed,

Not even Discord's plunder seeds could actually destroy it. All they could do is weaken its power.

 

 

 

Which is where the heart/ Spike would come in, and wreck sh*t

The heart's only shown to be useful in the Crystal Empire, so the action would have to already take place there, not the heart wouldn't be the one coming in.

 

And Spike has no special powers or actual connection to the heart. His relevance to it is just being the one who delivered it.

 

 

 

And fyi, the elements alone couldn't defeat the sirens in Rainbow focks. They needed Sunset Shimmer. So the bearers are proven to need help, sometimes, defeating baddies, and that 6 alone isn't enough for some of them

That's not the Element's direct power. That was the remnant power of the Element of Magic that still stuck around. We have no proof that the power they have is equal to the power of the Elements or Rainbow Power in Equestria. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

And just what is somehow immune to harmony, but not to love when the two already have similar qualities?

 

 

 

What power? The Elements and Rainbow Power came from the tree. They just have the ability to wield that power (and Discord already tried a plan to make them unable to do that).

 

 

 

Not even Discord's plunder seeds could actually destroy it. All they could do is weaken its power.

 

 

 

The heart's only shown to be useful in the Crystal Empire, so the action would have to already take place there, not the heart wouldn't be the one coming in.

 

And Spike has no special powers or actual connection to the heart. His relevance to it is just being the one who delivered it.

 

 

 

That's not the Element's direct power. That was the remnant power of the Element of Magic that still stuck around. We have no proof that the power they have is equal to the power of the Elements or Rainbow Power in Equestria. 

Wasn't it dying though?

 

You could presumably kill the tree after removing the elements of harmony; The elements would survive, but the tree would die.

 

Metaphysically this could cause the EOH to cease to be if they're dependent on its existence. Though even if the EOH still continued on, the tree at least would have been destroyed.

[Marimo 555]

Wasn't it dying though?

Just because Fluttershy, who only just found out about it that day and has no idea how it works, said it looked like it was dying, does not mean it can actually die. As far as we know, it may go in a dormant state similar to how the Elements were at the beginning of the show, but there's been no indication that it can actually die.

 

And we have no idea that the tree would be willing to give away the Elements to someone who would want to destroy it. We only saw Celestia, who also has a connection to the tree, remove them to stop Discord, plus Rainbow Power along with how the map can seemingly amplify a spell's power would indicate there's not as much incentive to take them out now. They sure didn't take them out when faced with Tirek.

 

Besides, if for some reason they did do something as big as killing off the Tree of Harmony, do you really think they would do that just to show off the power of the Crystal Heart? Like some threat went all the way to the Everfree Forest, destroyed the Tree when it still had the Elements inside it, then for some reason goes all the way to the Crystal Empire where it gets destroyed by a force that was already introduced several seasons ago? What is gained from that? Giving away the Elements at least led to Rainbow Power and the castle with a special map.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Marimo

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Just because Fluttershy, who only just found out about it that day and has no idea how it works, said it looked like it was dying, does not mean it can actually die. As far as we know, it may go in a dormant state similar to how the Elements were at the beginning of the show, but there's been no indication that it can actually die.

 

And we have no idea that the tree would be willing to give away the Elements to someone who would want to destroy it. We only saw Celestia, who also has a connection to the tree, remove them to stop Discord, plus Rainbow Power along with how the map can seemingly amplify a spell's power would indicate there's not as much incentive to take them out now. They sure didn't take them out when faced with Tirek.

 

Besides, if for some reason they did do something as big as killing off the Tree of Harmony, do you really think they would do that just to show off the power of the Crystal Heart? Like some threat went all the way to the Everfree Forest, destroyed the Tree when it still had the Elements inside it, then for some reason goes all the way to the Crystal Empire where it gets destroyed by a force that was already introduced several seasons ago? What is gained from that? Giving away the Elements at least led to Rainbow Power and the castle with a special map.

 

 

I'm not talking about them killing the tree specifically to force a crystal heart plotline. I'm just talking the principal of the tree being unkilleable.

I don't think they'd do something that drastic for a low tier plotline simply to shill the heart, but I think its a possible outcome were they to want to build up the villain cred of a later villain, by having him kill the tree to rob them of its power and show him off as a threat.

As for removing the EOH from the tree, as the EOH are shown to be able to be misused by other beings, such as starlight glimmer using the map's power (which comes from the tree) or Sunset shimmer using the Element of magic to power herself up, I don't think the Tree is 100% unable to keep itself from having its power usurped by evil.

If starlight can usurp the map, there's little doubt in my mind that the EOH could be removed forcefully from the tree.

 

Once more, I'm not saying this for a specific plotline, but just on the principal of the idea that the tree is indestructable, which I disagree with.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Unlikeable Pony

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

I would like it that there has to be a villain that can't be beat by upbeat feelings (weather or not they're powered by a magic space Deus Ex Machina or not) and instant forgiveness

That being said, ideally what I would like to see happen is that one of the Mane characters breaks down and gives in to the Dark Side in order to beat the villain a la Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi or Gohan vs Cell.  Yes the character manages to completely own the villain and is about to KILL them, but the rest of the cast realizes that the fallen one is losing herself and it's their friendship which save our hero from their own dark thoughts. 

[Nintenboy195 384]

I prefer if friendship always works. But I'm fine if it doesn't. I take whatever map throws at me. (except "What about Discord" I hate that episode so much...)

[Justin_Case001 4,860]

Hmm.  Mayhap.  Personally, I think it would just be cool to see something bad happen that they can't control.  It doesn't have to be failing to stop a villain, but something, you know, just to show that not everything can work out perfectly all the time.  I know that that's probably too dark for the show, though.  For example, what I think would have been great is if Tank actually died in Tanks for the Memories.  I mean, I believe that's the allegory they were going for, but just picture if that's what had actually happened.  It probably would have been the best episode in the series.  But I know, that's WAY to dark for this show.