Which reformed villain was best and which was worst?

[cider float 2,535]

From my point of view the best reformed villain done right was Discord as much as I didn't like him and the worst was Sunset Shimmer. 

 

Discord's reformation seemed very convincing, he never stopped being mischief and his friendship with Fluttershy, the betrayal, then finally understanding friendship better made sense. But Sunset Shimmer, I found her boring as a villain and boring as a hero. 

[Spark Thunderbass 1,398]

I think reformed villains such as Diamond Tiara worked pretty well, can't really say the same about Trixie though, I just don't really see her as a good pony.

[Silver Stream. 708]

The best would be Discord. Because his execution after "reformation" was realistic in a way. He's the spirit of chaos....so it is natural he would still screw around even after becoming "a good guy" and after his relapse, he got better without really breaking character .


Sunset Shimmer's is a good runner up for me. Her reformation was rushed nonetheless, but her redemption process made up for it because if was, again, realistic. I enjoyed the fact she was the target of the school to be the most hated. And anyone with good sense and an open perspective will understand that it is expected she will feel like crap because she put herself in such a position...and did her best to earn their trust through staying good and defeating the Sirens.


The worst has been a tie: Diamond Tiara's and Starlight Glimmer. DT is a great character....but her reformation was terrible along with her "reasons" for being a bully the past 4 seasons. I think it fell short, and she deserved something that required more effort on the episode entirely.

Starlight Glimmer's reformation wasn't as rushed, but her "redemption" throughout that entire song was frustrating to watch. Once again, it proves the fact that some villains are TOO EASILY forgiven than others. Sunset Shimmer is hated throughout the second movie because she was a bullying brat and brainwashed some kids for 60 seconds and turned into an ugly demon, LightingDust was kicked off the Wonderbolts and humiliated because she took a dangerous action without thinking about the consequences and risks (something RD is good at as well as MANY others), but Starlight is embraced with open arms in ten seconds flat after brainwashing ponies, stealing their cutiemarks (their very being), messing up time and risking their very existence? Nah...that's messed up.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

I'm not a fan of ANY of the reformations that happened in the show. Not because of the reformation itself, but because of the way they were done.

 

Discord... I'm not fully convinced he's "reformed" yet. And that is for the better.

 

Luna... It was great but I never understood what was the problem to begin with. It's not like I see what was so terrible about what she did. What she wanted to do, yes, but not what she actually did, and I don't believe in punishment with intention but not crime.

 

Trixie... She was more of a foil rather than an actual villain. And when she did actually became a villain, it was because of the amulet.

 

Chrysalis... Not reformed or repentant... I'm still waiting for her to wise up and go ask the princesses for help or for the cartoon to tell me that when changelings feed they harm the subject.

 

Starlight Glimmer... Her motivation was so weak I just want to facepalm every time I think about it.

 

And then there is Tirek. I hope HE doesn't get reformed.

 

I know I'm leaving out the comics and the Equestria Girls cartoons. But I don't care about them right now.

[cider float 2,535]

I'm not a fan of ANY of the reformations that happened in the show. Not because of the reformation itself, but because of the way they were done.

 

Discord... I'm not fully convinced he's "reformed" yet. And that is for the better.

 

Luna... It was great but I never understood what was the problem to begin with. It's not like I see what was so terrible about what she did. What she wanted to do, yes, but not what she actually did, and I don't believe in punishment with intention but not crime.

 

Trixie... She was more of a foil rather than an actual villain. And when she did actually became a villain, it was because of the amulet.

 

Chrysalis... Not reformed or repentant... I'm still waiting for her to wise up and go ask the princesses for help or for the cartoon to tell me that when changelings feed they harm the subject.

 

Starlight Glimmer... Her motivation was so weak I just want to facepalm every time I think about it.

 

And then there is Tirek. I hope HE doesn't get reformed.

 

I know I'm leaving out the comics and the Equestria Girls cartoons. But I don't care about them right now.

Tirek reformed. Ew just thinking about it. 

[Megas 27,069]

Best - Diamond Tiara and Gilda. Agree that they were a tad rushed in some parts(but nowhere near the degree of all the others), they were still well done, with really good explanations of their past behaviors. On top of that they were simple bullies rather than gods/tyrants, so they were more believable. I think Gilda's edges out DT though because her early friendship with RD made it easier to buy

 

Runner up would be both Discord and Sunset Shimmer, both of them had to take a while to sit in for them to work(in Sunset's case, her initial reformation was pretty bad but Rainbow Rocks more than made up for it)

 

Worst - Starlight Glimmer, no question. It actually managed to destroy what was arguably time the best villain in the show at the time. Her backstory makes her motivations and every action she made up to that point absolutely embarrassingly bad, and seeing her forgiven for everything she did in a 2 minute montage singing about friendship was also painful to sit through. To this day I still think that entire sequence was one, if not, the lowest point in the show

Edited January 29, 2016 by Megas

[-Inactive- 78]

If I could include the comics then I would probably choose King Sombra (and I hope the show doesn't go and reform him and mess up the whole thing), for anypony who has ready The Seige Of the Crystal Empire (and all the comics leading up to that) would understand that King Sombra was a villian that never wanted to be a villian in a way, but ended up becoming one anyway, and then has to find his way back from what he made himself.

 

Though take out the comics and I think Discord, though Discord wasn't really reformed by season 3 for me and it was actually at season 4's finalie that I thought he was truely on a path to redemption, from that moment with Twilight, it was done in steps over a season rather than the ending of a single episode

 

The Great and Powerful TRIXIE was done in the blink of an eye, and is slightly like King Sombra in the way that she became a villian (though through the Alicorn Amulet), and then suddenly she was sorry and all and that was that, maybe she fits better to not count as a villian but more of a trickster.

 

Starlight Glimmer I don't even remember being reformed, just that she was reformed and that was that and she's now good or something, don't even remember why, so it wasn't as memorable.

 

Edit: oh yeah, that was that love thing... huh, I felt like I'd already seen that done in the comics with Sombra (fiendship is magic #1) and it was too rushed

 

Sunset Shimmer's (somepony give me a bacon colour for her name) was okay... yes it was rushed (and I may be a bit uneven because I'm an EQ fan), but she was reformed entirely very quickly, and it was the rest of the world which couldn't forgive her, which was interesting.

 

Nightmare moon. I'm still not sure if Nightmare Moon is like a demon that takes her over or she just likes to call herself that, but it's the classic first episode, and we do see (from Do Princess's dream of magic sheep?) that Luna never really forgave herself for what she did

 

Was Iron will reformed? for some reason my mind is thinking he was (too much shipping art... or maybe it was the comics).

 

Edit: oh and DT... felt too... weird for her to be reformed, and what they are gonna do with her now, I have no idea, but it was a fun episode, just her suddenly out of nowhere being good inside just felt weird.

 

so worst: DT and Starlight

best: King Sombra

Edited January 28, 2016 by madjack2001

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

Best: Sunset Shimmer's as she had to work from the bottom-up; dealing with the sneering glares of her peers while never going down the depressive route. She stuck to her friends and put in the effort to change.

 

Worst: Discord's was bottom for me; though I'm not saying it was bad per-se. Something just has to be last. In any case with the exception of some of the more recent episodes, I was never really convinced he cared enough to be reformed, and the first episode of this was even more rushed than Starlight Glimmer's, IMO.

 

Note: I will not count Gilda, Trixie, or Diamond Tiara as they are lower level antagonists and not villains. Likewise I will not be counting Sombra's as that was comic-centered and I'm somewhat biased.

[cmarston1 5,952]

My personal favorites would have to be Sunset Shimmer's and Discord's. My least favorite is Starlight Glimmer's.

Edited January 28, 2016 by cmarston1

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

So far, Starlight's was the most rushed.

 

However, I'm still waiting to see what they do with it in the future.

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Best is without a doubt Discord, because most of the Mane 6 still held his past actions against him and he didn't need a 180 character change or a overly simple sympathetic backstory in order to join the light side and it wasn't just a one and done event, he's slipped up and rejoined the dark side for a short time, that it shows that redemption isn't just a instant fix to solve all problems 

 

Sunset Shimmer is a close second. While she does have the whole 180 thing, it's her having to deal with her past mistakes and all the vile against her that makes her redemption good in my eyes, that she has to struggle with her choices. 

 

Diamond Tiara and Gilda relay on the backstory portion but were small time antagonist so their turn around is more believable but does potentially send a bad message that bad people are just misunderstood that have issues. Not to say that it can't apply but it tends to be used to absolve past mistakes, which it shouldn't. The actions we take are our responsibility.  So Gilda's is better than DT in my eyes

 

Trixie was just a rush job. All it was was "Hi I'm sorry and good now, bye!"  That's not a reformation, that's just sloppy writing. 

 

And finally my least favorite, Starlight Glimmer. It uses both the 180 heel face turn, the sympathetic backstory to absolve past actions and worst of all, she faces no consequences what so ever,she's just instanta friends with the Mane 6 and super happy montage. She never had to work for her redemption, it was just handed out.  

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Best: Diamond Tiara. Spoiled Rich is physically and emotionally abusive. She forced her into abiding by a set of elitist standards at the cost of her conscience. Why do we as people examine bullies' livelihoods so much? More often than not, the foundation of the bullying comes from within the home, usually by the guardian or parent being abusive to the child. To the child bully, being the bully comes off as a security blanket. But what seals the deal is the fact that the CMC chose to help her and worried for her even though she was despicable to them. If they didn't forgive her, I can't blame them. But they showed so much maturity to help DT become somepony she wants to be, not how Spoiled trained her to be.

 

Second on the list is Starlight. A.k.a., Sunset's reformation done one million percent better, genuine, and correctly. The moment that should be the biggest and proudest day in Sunburst's life turned into a trauma trigger for Starlight. She didn't want what happened to her to happen to anyone else. Starlight genuinely believed she was creating harmony and friendship, but is so misguided, it hurt them without her knowing it. When Twilight and crew caused her government to collapse, Starlight became vengeful. But instead of completely fighting fire with fire, Twilight showed her maturity by showing Starlight the consequences of her actions, and it affected her. But rather than undergoing a character reset like Sunset, Twilight gave her the chance to start over; Starlight took that chance. But it'd be completely out of character of the Mane Six to send her to prison or exile. Starlight needed help; for TS to teach her the magic of friendship is a better, more satisfying method.

 

Worst: Sunset Shimmer. Sunset's was irredeemably bad and needed the Deus Ex Machina to not just force her to change, but change her through a complete character brainwashing. By basically killing off her original character and replacing her with the EoH's fantasy of her, Sunset's reformation lacks any conviction whatsoever. Sunset in Rainbow Rocks, the shorts, and FG is Sunset-in-name only. What happened during EQG1's climax makes Rainbow Rocks and Friendship Games worse because the so-called "reformation" affects their plots. If I want to see the villain redeemed, give me the character redeemed and show us that she chose to change from the start.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Dark Qiviut

[Ponies4Bronies 394]

Starlight's was the worst because it felt a little rushed. Best may have been Discord IMO.

[Cleverclover 1,525]

Best: Diamond Tiara

 

Her actions could be traced back to negative influences during her upbringing. Her reformation still seemed a bit rushed, but still felt more natural. 

 

Worst: Starlight Glimmer 

 

She has displayed psychopathic tendencies, severe anger issues, and a mental instability which cannot simply be undone after a couple of quick friendship speeches. Give her a couple hundred hours of therapy in a mental institution and only then will I accept her reformation. 

[Midnight Chimes 69]

Discord was the best, not because of Keep Calm and Flutter On, although that was a great episode, but because of what came after it. It quickly became clear his inherent character wasn't going to change, and he is still the old Discord we know and love, and there is a sense of progression through season 4 and on into season 5. At first there is an uneasy friendship that is seen as an unfortunate necessity by the mane six (as a way to keep Discord in check) and an inconvenience by Discord. It is little wonder then that he relapses when taunted about it by Tirek. It is only after the season 4 finale that he really begins to value friendship and likewise we see in What About Discord? that the mane six have become genuine friends with him.

 

Trixie was never a villain anyway (except when corrupted by the amulet) so doesn't count.

 

Diamond Tiara did a complete character 180, but I can still believe it since she is still growing up and maturing into an adult.

 

Starlight Glimmer is by far the worst. No, I'm not even going to call that a redemption. As if I'm supposed to believe that after spending her entire life cultivating her philosophy, a flashback to some random moment of her as a filly and a two minute conversation with Twilight is enough to make her abandon it entirely. Bahahaha that is not the real Starlight Glimmer. I like to think that the REAL Starlight is still out there, somewhere. If not, it's going to take a long time to repair the damage done by that episode.

[MAIKUN 262]

My worst reformed villain choice would be.....Diamond Tiara. And my best reformed villain choices are Discord, Gilda, Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer and of course....Princess Luna aka Nightmare Moon!

Edited January 29, 2016 by MAIKUN

[cider float 2,535]

The best would be Discord. Because his execution after "reformation" was realistic in a way. He's the spirit of chaos....so it is natural he would still screw around even after becoming "a good guy" and after his relapse, he got better without really breaking character .

 

 

Sunset Shimmer's is a good runner up for me. Her reformation was rushed nonetheless, but her redemption process made up for it because if was, again, realistic. I enjoyed the fact she was the target of the school to be the most hated. And anyone with good sense and an open perspective will understand that it is expected she will feel like crap because she put herself in such a position...and did her best to earn their trust through staying good and defeating the Sirens.

 

 

The worst has been a tie: Diamond Tiara's and Starlight Glimmer. DT is a great character....but her reformation was terrible along with her "reasons" for being a bully the past 4 seasons. I think it fell short, and she deserved something that required more effort on the episode entirely.

 

Starlight Glimmer's reformation wasn't as rushed, but her "redemption" throughout that entire song was frustrating to watch. Once again, it proves the fact that some villains are TOO EASILY forgiven than others. Sunset Shimmer is hated throughout the second movie because she was a bullying brat and brainwashed some kids for 60 seconds and turned into an ugly demon, LightingDust was kicked off the Wonderbolts and humiliated because she took a dangerous action without thinking about the consequences and risks (something RD is good at as well as MANY others), but Starlight is embraced with open arms in ten seconds flat after brainwashing ponies, stealing their cutiemarks (their very being), messing up time and risking their very existence? Nah...that's messed up.

I can't see where it was realistic for Sunset Shimmer to change so completely. And there was no real struggle for her.

 

Other runners ups for me on worst reformed villains would be Diamond Tiara and Starlight Glimmer. Ones that came after Sunset Shimmer suspiciously. After Sunset Shimmer the writers just go YOLO on all reformed villains.

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by cider float

[Megas 27,069]

 

 

I can't see where it was realistic for Sunset Shimmer to change so completely. And there was no real struggle for her.

 

 

um, wut?

 

She had an entire movie based on her struggle to win over everyone at CHS, who vehemently resented her 

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

Best - Diamond Tiara and Gilda. Agree that they were a tad rushed in some parts(but nowhere near the degree of all the others), they were still well done, with really good explanations of their past behaviors. On top of that they were simple bullies rather than gods/tyrants, so they were more believable. I think Gilda's edges out DT though because her early friendship with RD made it easier to buy

 

Runner up would be both Discord and Sunset Shimmer, both of them had to take a while to sit in for them to work(in Sunset's case, her initial reformation was pretty bad but Rainbow Rocks more than made up for it)

 

Worst - Starlight Glimmer, no question. It actually managed to destroy what was arguably time the best villain in the show at the time. Her backstory makes her motivations and every action she made up to that point absolutely embarrassingly bad, and seeing her forgiven for everything she did in a 2 minute montage singing about friendship was also painful to sit through. To this day I still think that entire sequence was one, if not, the lowest point in the show

 

Basically all of this. I dock DT's points because she was never so much as hinted to have any redeeming or sympathetic qualities before her episode, but I liked that much of the episode focused on her wanting to change, and only managing to do so at the very end. It's something I really want to see more often.

 

Discord's and Sunset's were blah initially, but made great by how they were handled after the fact. Sunset still had to deal with the fallout from her actions, and in Friendship Games showed that she still has a bit of an angry, snippy side to her that comes out under pressure. And Discord stole the show in Twilight's Kingdom by (realistically) relapsing, and then reforming in a more satisfying way. Some don't like that he's still a bit of a butt even now, but a Discord who isn't at least a little trolly and pranksterly sounds boring, and isn't really something I'm in a hurry to see.

 

It remains to be seen whether Starlight's will also will be made good by future episodes.

[Jangocoolguy 433]

Best: Discord for being spread out.

Worst: Starlight. Her "redemption" in that song should've been the season premiere's story. Heck, even her "why I turned bad" backstory doesn't carry water and doesn't really sync to what we'd seen and was previously indicated. And if she becomes the 7th Element Bearer...

[Silver Stream. 708]

I can't see where it was realistic for Sunset Shimmer to change so completely. And there was no real struggle for her.

 

Other runners ups for me on worst reformed villains would be Diamond Tiara and Starlight Glimmer. Ones that came after Sunset Shimmer suspiciously. After Sunset Shimmer the writers just go YOLO on all reformed villains.

 

 

 

It depends on one's perspective. Those who have witnessed/experienced the struggles Sunset Shimmer has will better understand what I'm referring to. Even those who haven't are likely to understand (me). I would express my opinion on what I saw as her struggles, but it'll only feel like deja vu. And if it's been explained before to you, then it's possible you'll never understand/see/believe Sunset Shimmer was dealing with realistic struggles. (and that is not a bad thing). Some people see certain things....other don't *shrugs*  Plus it's been heavily implied in nearly every  "sunset shimmer" comment you submit throughout the forums, that you simply don't like her as a character in general nor do you like her execution. And that in itself can make it very difficult to accept or see things in characters you don't typically like. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out some things on other characters myself, but it's hard to considering the fact they aren't characters I like xD

[SolyWack 482]

Anyone who says Sunset is a blasphemer. (OP, I'm looking at you)

 

I would say Trixie's is the worst. It was just "Uhp, I lost. Looks like you I'll stick with you guys"

 

They didn't even teach her anything. She just lost and accepted the fact that their friendship preachings must be right.

[PoisonClaw 8,153]

Sunset Shimmer is my personal favorite for the sheer fact that she wasn't immediately forgiven and her past actions swept under the rug like others. This makes her redemption far more realistic in my eyes considering how hard she had to work to improve the black as ink image she's worked up over the last few years. Hell, you could even argue that the HuMane 5 didn't even like her until after some time when you factor in everything they put up from her, only initially going along with because Twilight asked them too.

 

Diamond Tiara is a close second, but that may just be coming from someone whose has believed and wished that Diamond Tiara could be redeemed from way back in S2. Her song "The Pony I Want to Be" is a straight up tearjerker, even if you could argue that the Freudian Excuse of her rotten as sin mother when we've been shown how reasonable her father can be came right the hell out of nowhere.  

 

Discord takes third for a few reasons. When "Keep Calm and Flutter On" first aired, I compared it to the recently released Mandopony song, Kindness in many ways. The fact that it didn't completely stick until after Tirek betrayed him worked to cement it. The problem is that, now that he's reformed, he can show up in more episodes and spout nothing but Pop-culture references, which has led to some of my least favorite episodes.

 

Trixie and Gilda weren't exactly villains per say. Gilda was a jerk yes, but her redemption really amounted to making up with Dash, and Trixie was corrupted by the Alicorn Amulet, so while she only started with the selfish "Go and beat Twilight Sparkle", it drastically escalated outside of her control. Once the amulet was removed, not very many seemed wanting to press charges when they learned most of this wasn't her fault and likely terrified Trixie as well. 

 

In terms of worst, I guess I'm going to have to go with Starlight Glimmer, even if I liked how Twilight talked her down as opposed to blasting her with magical lasers. The reason for this is that despite all the damage she's caused for purely selfish reasons (enslaving an entire town of ponies and essentially destroying Equestria several times over) she comes off as a Karma Houdini similar to that Kelpie from the comics and just has her crimes expunged without any real effort or consequences. Plus, her "reason" for doing this is even weaker than Diamond Tiara having an out of nowhere awful mother and does not excuse her admittedly selfish and stupid actions.  

Edited January 29, 2016 by PoisonClaw

[Stasis 39]

Starlights was garbage. Besides her listening to Twilight for no good reason I literally have to ignore how her character was portrayed before the last 10mins for it to even work.

 

The fact they established this was implanted in her head since she's was a child just makes it even worse honestly.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Starlights was garbage. Besides her listening to Twilight for no good reason I literally have to ignore how her character was portrayed before the last 10mins for it to even work.

 

The fact they established this was implanted in her head since she's was a child just makes it even worse honestly.

It's absolutely believable for Starlight to act the way she did. Sunburst was her only friend. The moment where he got his cutie mark was the very last time she ever saw him. While he moved on, the memory of her trauma refused to go away. Kids respond to events far more emotionally than adults. To an adult like myself, this memory feels very petty, but to a child, it can shape how he, she, or xe lives.

 

Starlight has every good reason to believe Twilight. Each time Starlight (or Twilight accidentally) foiled the Sonic Rainboom, the future worsened. Starlight didn't believe what Twilight told her because to Starlight, Twilight was just being an egomaniac. SG didn't think the future would ever get this bad. But by showing Starlight the consequences of her damaging the past, it puts the burden of proof on SG. And it hurt SG. What happened during the wasteland foreshadowed Twilight's maturity and decision by Starlight to accept Twilight's offer.