How to improve Starlight as a protagonist?

[Batbrony 16,055]

3 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I came in here to finally chime in and lo and behold I see you already said what I was going to say.

Frankly with how many times we've shared the same thoughts on this show and a whole load of other topics, I just figure by this point that this would be how our first real world interaction would go...  

 

[Jeric 46,851]

1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I don't see what that has to do with anything, but I hope they don't

its the RIGHT characters that thy have to pair her with. Maude was a good choice, because she can possibly bring out her inner "beauty", like rocks, but Trixie....ehhhhhh......

 

she NEEDS a take-no-shit, use-no-magic pony like AJ

AJ would be an interest pairing, but I see your AJ and raise you a Big Mac. What's cool is that Big Mac dating Sugar Belle connects Starlight to the Apples in an interesting serendipitous way. 

2 hours ago, Batbrony said:

Frankly with how many times we've shared the same thoughts on this show and a whole load of other topics, I just figure by this point that this would be how our first real world interaction would go...  

 

There. Right there. I died.

 

 

[Batbrony 16,055]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, now I just know we'd do something terrible with bunk beds and then we'd somehow blame your kids for it... or Troblems, I could totally see us blaming her for not stopping us. 

@Fresh Nonsense fair warning, this is now kind of inevitable, your only hope is keeping us from ever meeting each other. 

[Ganondox 899]

5 hours ago, Jeric said:

AJ would be an interest pairing, but I see your AJ and raise you a Big Mac. What's cool is that Big Mac dating Sugar Belle connects Starlight to the Apples in an interesting serendipitous way. 

There. Right there. I died.

 

 

Now that you mentioned it, I totally see Big Mac as being the second earth pony in the group. The other possibility is Coco Pommel, but taking geography into account Big Mac seems more likely, especially with the introduction of Sugar Belle. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,464]

For me, they can improve her in one simple way: Stop making her OP with random magic that apparently never existed until she came along. If they could just do that, I would like her soooooooooooo much more, because her overall character actually is really good now, it is just the magic nonsense that bothers me a lot. No more switching cutie marks in a split second, no more using some randomly out of nowhere new magic to solve a problem, if they go that route, it would make her better to me. 

[Sparklefan1234 170,579]

9 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

For me, they can improve her in one simple way: Stop making her OP with random magic that apparently never existed until she came along. If they could just do that, I would like her soooooooooooo much more, because her overall character actually is really good now, it is just the magic nonsense that bothers me a lot. No more switching cutie marks in a split second, no more using some randomly out of nowhere new magic to solve a problem, if they go that route, it would make her better to me. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers make it so, Starlight turns herself into an Alicorn at this point.

[Castle Bleck 19,356]

9 minutes ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers make it so, Starlight turns herself into an Alicorn at this point.

 

 

As... mixed... as some of their decisions have been, I doubt they'll ever be outright business-suicidal like that.

[Sparklefan1234 170,579]

1 hour ago, A.V. said:

As... mixed... as some of their decisions have been, I doubt they'll ever be outright business-suicidal like that.

 

Well, they've already had a baby be born an Alicorn so, I wouldn't be too surprised if Starlight morphed herself into an Alicorn somehow.

In fact, I could see that being a Season Finale type story where Starlight turns herself into an Alicorn but,

she later realizes she was happier being a Unicorn because,  she can't handle the pressure  of Princesshood or something like that.

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Sparklefan1234

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

I know she may not be ready for this, but I think Starlight should have her own student.   A young apprentice for her to take up.  Perhaps one as troubled as she is.

This was something that I had on my mind.  What if Starlight rescued a filly unicorn who had a rough past?  The story goes as in the Spoilers

Spoiler

The episode 2-parter idea would have the Mane 5, Starlight and Trixie answer the Cutie Map to another village in the middle of Equestria, as a spiritual sequel to the Cutie Map.  The big difference is that the villagers are not Earth Ponies, Unicorns or Pegasi.  They're...Blanks.  Completely blank ponies.  And with personalities as dull as a rock.

It seems they worship this deity they refer to as their protector.  Ideal names I had would include Blank and Null.

Anyway, Starlight and the others(Minus Trixie) are seeing similarities with the first Friendship Mission(Especially Starlight, who long ago held a slightly similar town, only with cutie marks gone).  To stop this so called deity, and restore the villagers to their former selves, Trixie goes to Starlight's Village to get help while Starlight and the Mane 5 purposefully get themselves caught and turned into Blank Ponies.  

It's at the last minute that Trixie arrives with reinforcements from Starlight's Village(A whole Boatload of em).  It didn't take long for the villagers to recognize Starlight and free her and the others.  Then they begin their attack on the deity, helping encourage others to fight back.  And in the end, despite almost losing, they defeated the deity, only for its identity to be revealed as...

A Filly Unicorn.  One who's magic is extremely powerful.  But also has an odd birth defect: The Unicorn Horn is badly shaped.  Furthermore, this filly had a rough past, having been bullied for how she looked.  She ran away from home, and hated the idea of ponies having unique looks.  But it was the unintended inspiration from Starlight Glimmer that she started her own village to remove Equestria of all uniqueness and render every pony Blank.

Feeling sorry for what the filly's been, and blaming herself for this unintended situation, Starlight Glimmer took the little filly as her student to help get her back on the right track.  The little filly had to apologize to everyone in her village, and make up for what she had done.  Interestingly, some of the villagers understood, as they came from her old village and saw what happened.  They only joined just to at least keep close with her.

 

In the end, Starlight Glimmer, the Mane 5 and Trixie completed their friendship mission, and Starlight has a new student to look after.  A new responsibility for one with a troubled past.  

 

[SunsetShimmerStan 36]

On 2017-05-12 at 10:34 PM, Thrond said:

Literally anything but this. This nearly ruined the show for me at the time, and I am infinitely thankful that it's declined heavily. Furthermore, as I am about to express, I don't believe she has a strong enough personality to carry an episode where she does nothing wrong and learns nothing. Such an episode would be horrifically dull. 

This is Starlight's current problem: she's boring. In season 6, she was ultimately hollow but got by because her mistakes were severe enough to be novel and her insecurities were sympathetic. Now, she needs to become an actual character, and there are a few things she must demonstrate for that to happen:

First, she needs a distinct personality with a unique set of quirks. At the moment, she often comes across as little more than a watered down, less bookish Twilight with a shadier past. Her anger issues aren't especially charming, and her snark is fairly generic, so the show needs to develop her beyond that, especially now that her insecurity is mostly gone now. She doesn't work as a straight mare because of her past, so she needs a unique set of traits to make her feel like she adds something the show wouldn't have without her, and those traits need to be funny enough that she can hold her own against other characters at their best. Her interests don't stretch far beyond magic, and while the kites are a step on the right direction, they feel kinda random and not especially essential to her as a character. They have potential, though. 

Second, she needs minor flaws which don't inevitably cause a big magical incident. This will help keep her from repeating the same mistakes and lessons over and over, and will significantly contribute to making her a likeable, sympathetic character. To make us comfortable with the character, you cannot allow her to come across like a ticking time bomb. Starlight's irresponsibility is a consistent part of her character so far and it makes her harder to get behind, and although her temper may suffice, it's nowhere near mundane enough to make her work within the show's parameters. 

The above changes willl lead to the third change: moving past the same points we've already seen with her. We don't need to be reminded of her past anymore. We don't need to see her use magic poorly anymore (at least, as long as we're supposed to trust her), and we certainly don't need her to talk about feeling misunderstood soon after she uses her magic poorly. These storylines have been done, and we need more from her than those same three ideas over and over again. Giving her a stronger personality and smaller flaws would help with that.

Right now, she's simply not up to the task of taking space from the other main characters. If she is going to continue having significant roles in premieres and finales, incorporating her more successfully into the mane group would be helpful, but she also needs to add something to that group dynamic. A good way to develop that might be, as many others have said, giving her more interactions with the mane six, but there are other ways to make her sufficiently compelling.

However, the best way to include her without it coming at the expense of other characters would be including her in that friend group, as while it's genuinely interesting that she doesn't relate to the mane six as much, it leads to the frustrating feeling that she's replacing the group rather than being a part of it, and it doesn't really justify her feeling of being misunderstood. I don't agree that premieres and finales are more important, but they are the first and last impression of a season, and seeing the characters we're here for in those slots would be nice. Aside from helping with that and more easily allowing her to develop distinctive traits, it could also help her temper feel more mundane and less dangerous or alarming as a character flaw. 

Most of all, though, she needs comedic episodes, and she needs to be a primary source of comedy in such an episode. This is the one thing which would convince me of her potential, as most of the humour derived from her in past episodes has been either disturbing ("Every Little Thing She Does") or incredibly light ("Rock Solid Friendship"). Convince me that she can be funny on her own merits, and you'll come a lot closer to reviving the interest which season 7 has lost from me. 

So since you see Sunset and Starlight as boring, what makes other redemptions like Zuko on Avatar, Sasha on Amphibia, Amity and Hunter on Owl House,  Pacifica on Gravity Falls, and Tom on Star vs work as far as keeping a redeemed character engaging? What makes those characters feel more engaging post-redemption where Sunset and Starlight fail when they get focus?

Edited June 21 by SunsetShimmerStan

[Thrond 3,263]

On 2024-06-20 at 9:16 PM, SunsetShimmerStan said:

So since you see Sunset and Starlight as boring, what makes other redemptions like Zuko on Avatar, Sasha on Amphibia, Amity and Hunter on Owl House,  Pacifica on Gravity Falls, and Tom on Star vs work as far as keeping a redeemed character engaging? What makes those characters feel more engaging post-redemption where Sunset and Starlight fail when they get focus?

Ok, a few things. 

1. I typically don't watch cartoons. Even Last Airbender I think I only saw the earliest chapters as a child. So I don't think I can do a good job comparing. 

2. My issues with Sunset and Starlight were not directly related to their redemptions, I just didn't really like them. I did see all of The Owl House, and Amity felt consistent and distinctive in a way that Sunset and Starlight only became at the very end. 

3. Keep in mind that My Little Pony kept on going for more than two years after I posted this, and I liked these two much more in most of their stuff after this point. The short series gave Sunset every personality trait she needed, it just didn't string them together coherently. And seasons 8-9 gave Starlight some much-needed consistency.

[SunsetShimmerStan 36]

3 hours ago, Thrond said:

3. Keep in mind that My Little Pony kept on going for more than two years after I posted this, and I liked these two much more in most of their stuff after this point. The short series gave Sunset every personality trait she needed, it just didn't string them together coherently. And seasons 8-9 gave Starlight some much-needed consistency.

What about for giving Sunset focus in the specials and movies like Legend of Everfree, Mirror Magic, Forgotten Friendship, and Sunset's Backstage Pass? How would you have done a better job giving Sunset better stories that can work for a special or a movie if none of them worked for you? Being the protagonist of EQG means that can't exactly stop giving her movies and specials focusing on her.

[Thrond 3,263]

1 hour ago, SunsetShimmerStan said:

What about for giving Sunset focus in the specials and movies like Legend of Everfree, Mirror Magic, Forgotten Friendship, and Sunset's Backstage Pass? How would you have done a better job giving Sunset better stories that can work for a special or a movie if none of them worked for you? Being the protagonist of EQG means that can't exactly stop giving her movies and specials focusing on her.

 

"Sunset's Backstage Pass" had the right idea in that it's about a friendship problem that comes from within Sunset. I think at that point you just need to tweak the details. All of the mane six have episodes where I find them annoying and unlikeable; doesn't mean I want to stop watching them. I don't remember that special very well, so I can't remember exactly what I would want to tweak, but if Equestria Girls told more stories like that they'd probably wind up with one I loved sooner or later. 

[SunsetShimmerStan 36]

On 2024-09-06 at 3:42 PM, Thrond said:

 

"Sunset's Backstage Pass" had the right idea in that it's about a friendship problem that comes from within Sunset. I think at that point you just need to tweak the details. All of the mane six have episodes where I find them annoying and unlikeable; doesn't mean I want to stop watching them. I don't remember that special very well, so I can't remember exactly what I would want to tweak, but if Equestria Girls told more stories like that they'd probably wind up with one I loved sooner or later. 

Well, how should they have done the Sunset reunion with Celestia? Given your issues with that, how should that have been handled better?

[Thrond 3,263]

10 hours ago, SunsetShimmerStan said:

Well, how should they have done the Sunset reunion with Celestia? Given your issues with that, how should that have been handled better?

Maybe if it were a bit longer, more emotional? As is it's just like "ok, I forgive you, now let's get back to the plot." To be honest I think this reunion could have been its own story. 

[SunsetShimmerStan 36]

On 2024-09-20 at 11:19 PM, Thrond said:

Maybe if it were a bit longer, more emotional? As is it's just like "ok, I forgive you, now let's get back to the plot." To be honest I think this reunion could have been its own story. 

The trouble is though with making the reunion it's own story is that there still needs to be some set up on why Sunset chooses that specific time to reconcile with Celestia (given it is implied she was too afraid to talk to Celestia after everything that happened and only talked to her when she had no choice and needed her help for get her friends' memories back), a potential conflict in this, and how to make a 44-minute plot out of that.

[Thrond 3,263]

On 2024-10-12 at 8:03 PM, SunsetShimmerStan said:

The trouble is though with making the reunion it's own story is that there still needs to be some set up on why Sunset chooses that specific time to reconcile with Celestia (given it is implied she was too afraid to talk to Celestia after everything that happened and only talked to her when she had no choice and needed her help for get her friends' memories back), a potential conflict in this, and how to make a 44-minute plot out of that.

I don't think this is a hard thing to explain at all. Right off the top of my head: something reminds Sunset Shimmer of Celestia, and then her friends pry and have to convince her to go. Maybe that's not 44 minutes, to be fair, but it's also not 5. Maybe you could still have a magic problem that Sunset needs Celestia's help to solve, but make it less complicated so we can spend more time in Equestria. 

[SunsetShimmerStan 36]

On 2024-10-22 at 11:59 PM, Thrond said:

I don't think this is a hard thing to explain at all. Right off the top of my head: something reminds Sunset Shimmer of Celestia, and then her friends pry and have to convince her to go. Maybe that's not 44 minutes, to be fair, but it's also not 5. Maybe you could still have a magic problem that Sunset needs Celestia's help to solve, but make it less complicated so we can spend more time in Equestria. 

Okay then. Also, how would you have fixed up Legend of Everfree? Considering it helped in fleshing out the Sunset and Sci-Twi friendship dynamic that is pretty important for the show, how would you have tried to fix Legend of Everfree and give a better showing of their dynamic?