What's with all the Season 6 hate?

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

41 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

Well yeah, if Starlight weren't there Thorax wouldn't have let out his love and beaten Chrysalis

If Trixie weren't there they wouldn't have escaped the changeling Patrol or the ambush

if Discord weren't there they wouldn't have gotten past the guards in the throne chamber area.

But in the end, Thorax was the only one in the group who could defeat Chrysalis

unless Discord had his magic then he would have one shot chrysalis with his pinkie claw and sneezed away the changeling army but fugg it who needs to see Discord do cool shit.

Chrysalis hated Starlight because she is one who challenge her the idea of being a leader, and Starlight made her people turn back at her and Starlight trying to reform her near the end make Chrysalis even more piss off. Thorax, Discord and Trixie are important in this journey, if not for them, Starlight cant beat Chrysalis, but in Chrysalis perspective, it would be : 

Trixie is not important, just a useless unicorn.

Discord is just a disabled god.

Thorax defeats her with his love but Starlight is the one TOLD other changelings DiD THE SAME THING. Thorax is basically a MacGuffin in that finale.

And Starlight, a godddamn useless unicorn, student of goddamn Princess of Friendship (who beat her in Canterlot Wedding), come to make her people betray her, dethroned her then act like a goddamn moral high ground. You know how insulting it is if you are over hundred years queen, you are being dethroned by one useless unicorn and let that pony TEACH you about how to rule a kingdom and made your child betray you in one day??????? If i were Chrysalis, i would destroy that pony life in the most humiliating way then went for every other one that involve in that day.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, Lambdadelta said:

Chrysalis hated Starlight because she is one who challenge her the idea of being a leader, and Starlight made her people turn back at her and Starlight trying to reform her near the end make Chrysalis even more piss off. Thorax, Discord and Trixie are important in this journey, if not for them, Starlight cant beat Chrysalis, but in Chrysalis perspective, it would be : 

Trixie is not important, just a useless unicorn.

Discord is just a disabled god.

Thorax defeats her with his love but Starlight is the one TOLD other changelings DiD THE SAME THING. Thorax is basically a MacGuffin in that finale.

And Starlight, a godddamn useless unicorn, student of goddamn Princess of Friendship (who beat her in Canterlot Wedding), come to make her people betray her, dethroned her then act like a goddamn moral high ground. You know how insulting it is if you are over hundred years queen, you are being dethroned by one useless unicorn and let that pony TEACH you about how to rule a kingdom and made your child betray you in one day??????? If i were Chrysalis, i would destroy that pony life in the most humiliating way then went for every other one that involve in that day.

Well I would agree Chrysalis hates Starlight the most, it's just I think Thorax was the most crucial to the mission at the end of the day.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

15 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

Oh, and Chrysalis blaming Starlight has prior. In the comics she seems to blame Twilight for her defeat at the wedding.

Um... Chrissy... that wasn't Twilight. Her contribution to your defeat was being physically present.

Twi was ultimately the source of Chrysalis' defeat though; her doubt of the "fake" Cadence from the start, her freeing of the true Cadence from the cave, and deliverance to the palace, her freeing of Cadence (again!) so she could go to Shining Armour - all were causal steps that led to the final defeat, which otherwise would have gone perfectly to plan.

Similarly, Starlight defeated her and her entire nation... with words. Starlight got Thorax to the throne room, Starlight triggered Thorax's transformation, and that of the other changelings and Chrysalis isn't wrong in blaming Starlight for that defeat either.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Just now, ryanmahaffe said:

Well I would agree Chrysalis hates Starlight the most, it's just I think Thorax was the most crucial to the mission at the end of the day.

Think about a nuclear bomb and the one push the button. 

That is one of reasons i like S6 finale, every main character in that finale has their efforts to help other members archive victory, not just some helpless victims to fill villain personal prison cell (like mane 5 in Twilight Kingdom, they are just tools to activate the box).

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

14 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

Think about a nuclear bomb and the one push the button. 

That is one of reasons i like S6 finale, every main character in that finale has their efforts to help other members archive victory, not just some helpless victims to fill villain personal prison cell (like mane 5 in Twilight Kingdom, they are just tools to activate the box).

I agree that all 4 were useful, and my issues with To Where and Back Again aside, that was easily its greatest strength.

[Dec Browne 20]

But where would Season 7 lie from worst season to best season?

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

12 minutes ago, Dec Browne said:

But where would Season 7 lie from worst season to best season?

Well, while that is subjective, it seems to be in most peoples top 3 so far.

[Philweasel 139]

I'm enjoying it, but then the second half of the season could be utter garbage.

Magic 8 ball says 'unclear, try again later'.

[Stardust Balance 7,740]

I have no issue with Starlight; her character grew on me over time. I just wish there was more shared screen time with her during season six to develop her personality, alongside convincing the majority of her being a worthy pupil to Twilight.

Anyway, my problem with season six? I'll tell you in one exact word: Boring.

Not terribly dull to watch, mind you, but the previous two seasons - especially season six - were just overall underwhelming. Few good episodes here and there with a vast majority of them hit-and-miss, or just forgettable. The premiere and finale were just... Well, no; they plain sucked. I already forgot the majority of what happened in both two-parters, and I just watched The Crystalling a few weeks back!

Season six was, to be blunt, lazy. But it's the perculiar form of laziness; in that they will put effort in things, but the wrong things. The direction of storytelling and characters motivations were foggy or all over the place. With that said, season seven has proven to be a vast improvement thus far, and I'm looking forward to what they have in store once the second half is aired.

[heavens-champion 1,907]

2 hours ago, Philweasel said:

Oh, and Chrysalis blaming Starlight has prior. In the comics she seems to blame Twilight for her defeat at the wedding.

Um... Chrissy... that wasn't Twilight. Her contribution to your defeat was being physically present.

And finding the real Cadance in the caves.

2 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

Twi was ultimately the source of Chrysalis' defeat though; her doubt of the "fake" Cadence from the start, her freeing of the true Cadence from the cave, and deliverance to the palace, her freeing of Cadence (again!) so she could go to Shining Armour - all were causal steps that led to the final defeat, which otherwise would have gone perfectly to plan.

Which is kind of ironic, really, when you consider how stupid it was for Queen Chrysalis to not study Princess Cadance's personality and background, and not even try and restrain Cadance and Shining Armor after Cadance freed Shining Armor from her spell.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

I don't hate season 6, but it has more than the usual meh episodes and fewer ear-to-ear-smile episodes (for me anyway) than the other seasons.

[Megas 28,100]

Season 6 suffers from some of the most easily avoidable bullshit that the writers really should have known better about

- The elephant in the room, Starlight, she gets the Roman Reigns push, i.e., she's constantly pushed to high heavens at the expense of the mane 6, but said push hurts her more than helps, with ELTSD and TWABA being some of the worst offenders. It has nothing to do with people hating change and has everything to do with said being executed shittily

- it's like, the worst season for most of the Mane cast, with Twilight, RD, and AJ getting the worst of it. Twilight is constantly made to look bad or neglected in order to make Starlight look good, AJ was constantly made to look either incompetent or really hostile in a few episodes and took all the way until Buckball season for her to have a decent appearance, and some of the bullshit they put RD through would make you think the writers had some sort of hate boner for her. RD becoming a WB is one of the most important moments we've been anticipating since E1 and they fuck that right in the ass, and decided to go out of their way to do the exact opposite of a milestone and treated her like garbage on her defining moment. Oh and then they decided it was a smart idea to rehash TMMDW with 28PL, an episode that gladly bastardizes the main cast for the sake of its stupid zombie gimmick 

that's not even to bring up the CMC, who barely did much regarding their future, or how Rarity suffering similar stupidity to the point where she would go completely against her character's purpose. Spike and Fluttershy, and to a lesser extent Pinkie, were the only ones to actually benefit from S6, almost for every one else it was practically detrimental 

- the season was almost entirely run by new writers who either didn't know better or didn't give a shit, lead by a story editor who most likely didn't give a shit. This goes back to my first point of how there was tons of bullshit, and tons of said bullshit that could have been easily avoided if the writers looked at what they were writing for more than no seconds. S7 is pretty much entirely done by new writers, with the oldest only going back to S5, yet there's a clear better quality control over what gets passed far more than there was for S6

Edited July 23, 2017 by Whompy Whomperson

[Steve Piranha 29,497]

9 hours ago, Vulon Bii said:

Butthurt Starlight Glimmer haters.

Brohoof mainly becaus ethat Starlight is cute  

8 hours ago, ryanmahaffe said:

 Vulon is correct for the most part, a lot of the season 6 hate comes from Starlight hate, mostly because people don't know how to accept change in the show, or they are just upset that a little girls show reformed a character instead of killing them.

Starlight hate is ridiculous and unfounded imo, it mostly revolves around people thinking she is too OP or is a total Mary Sue. I don't understand the OP argument, she is on par with Twilight, clearly the most gifted unicorn in Equestria, that's what happens when your drive is the lust to get what you want, every movie ever will tell you that darkness/evil is a quicker route to power but it comes at a cost, usually corruption, and how about that, Starlight advanced more quickly than Twilight and can now keep pace with her despite not being an alicorn because she just had more drive to become more powerful. I also don't think the Alicorn transformation boosts your unicorn magic all that much. As for changing the Princesses marks, she could only do it for 24 hours likely, and the princesses still could have destroyed her right then and there. Her being a Mary Sue is just ridiculous and not even worth debunking.

So that is where most of the season 6 hate comes from.

BUUT, I will say that while I do like season 6, I was still disappointed by it. I loved season 5 because I feel it offered either an amazing episode, a great episode, or at least a good episode every single week, with RARE exceptions like Princess Spike or What About Discord. Season 4 had a few downs, but it still offered consistently great episodes with rare bad ones, but it didn't have the consistent incredibly captivating episodes like season 5 did IMO, I consider 4 and 2 relatives in this regard, both offering consistently amazing episodes, but with more downs than season 5.

Season 6 is different, it had some amazing episodes, but it opened on an underwhelming 2 parter that may as well been slice of life instead of shoehorning a threat into the plot. The Gift of Maud Pie was funny but arguably the worst Maud episode due to awkward pacing and repetitive humor. On Your Marks had an amazing song but also it felt the first act was a complete waste of time, making for nothing more than a decent episode overall. Gauntlet of Fire, 5 episodes in was the first amazing episode. No Second Prances was good but Twilight felt like a forced antagonist in it. Newbie Dash made a silly little episode out of one of the biggest arcs of the series, as a one off episode, it's fine, as the conclusion too Rainbows biggest dream since season 1... it's weak as hell. A Hearths Warming Tale was one of the if not the best episode of the season, really good one there. But you see the point? Mediocre or decent covers season six with random drops in quality. Saddle Row Review, decent. Applejacks Day Off, bad. Flutter Brutter, good moral, decent episode.

Spice Up Your Life and Stranger than Fan Fiction were the first two episodes I thought were good one right after the other, except they were a hiatus apart. But right after that you had The Cart Before the Ponies and 28 Pranks later, one painfully mediocre episode and one garbage worst of the series episode. OOP, WHAT DO YOU KNOW, two great episodes back to back with Times are Changeling and Dungeons and Discords. 

Basically the season doesn't start getting consistently good until episode 16 with Changeling, every episode after that is pretty solid with the exception of PPOV which was just average.

Topped off with a good but unexciting finale. 

Season 6 had an incredibly weak start with some actual bad episodes, it didn't start getting consistently good like season 4 or 2 until past the halfway point, and it never even got close to season 5 where I thought every episode back to back throughout the whole season was at the very least good aside from two episodes.

So there is my opinion on the whole season 6 hate thing, I don't hate the season, but it ranks pretty low with me. 5>7>4>2>6>1=3

Yeah, Starlight's hate was way overboard. You could smell the anger and hate with those comments, despite that she hardly shone in that season. At least Flashy hate was funny and over the top  

 

Well, apart of that, the season was pretty weak overall. Had some great episode, but most of them where weak to outright bad. Something that stand out more since the opposite has happened with this season, and we ain't even halfway of it (if you count the US airing only of course  ). Not to mention that they now seem to know what to do with Starlight and her episodes this season are stronger and with one considered by many one of the best of the whole series, and they've managed the impossible: making McFlurry an actual character rather than follow the old baby tropes 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Steve Piranha

[Philweasel 139]

4 hours ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

Season 6 suffers from some of the most easily avoidable bullshit that the writers really should have known better about

- The elephant in the room, Starlight, she gets the Roman Reigns push, i.e., she's constantly pushed to high heavens at the expense of the mane 6, but said push hurts her more than helps, with ELTSD and TWABA being some of the worst offenders. It has nothing to do with people hating change and has everything to do with said being executed shittily

I challenge the charge that she was pushed to the expense of the mane 6. Maybe in the finale, but after years of turning into a rather dull 'Celestia-lite' "No Second Prances"  made me relate to Twilight again, bringing her back down to earth with her ill temper towards Trixie and her smothering towards Starlight. And then it made me respect her more than ever by having her express no satisfaction when she turned out to be right, and instead make an effort to try and repair the relationship between the two ponies she had previously tried to keep apart now she saw how much they meant to each other.

And the Mane 6 were hilarious in ELTSD, especially Pinkie, Rarity and Applejack. The episode wouldn't have been half as fun without them selling that mind control to hilarious effect.

...the fact that I really like Roman Reigns is neither here nor there

Edited July 21, 2017 by Philweasel

[CypherHoof 26,483]

36 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

And then it made me respect her more than ever by having her express no satisfaction when she turned out to be right,

Oh, I don't know about that; her sarcastic retort to Trixie after Starlight ran off in tears was quite definitely Twi enjoying a moment of Schadenfreude at Trixie's expense. It is only after she saw how much their fight had cost Trixie that she experienced remorse and went to patch things up with Starlight on Trixie's behalf.  That Trixie literally gambled her life on Starlight forgiving her probably didn't hurt much either.

But yeah, that episode did a lot to establish the boundaries between Starlight and Twilight; Starlight isn't going to blindly follow bad advice from Twilight, no matter how much she respects her, which is a lot healthier than during the previous (double) episode, and Twi learned to give her pupil some space to make her own decisions, rather than micromanage everything. Not that she doesn't backslide later of course,  but music box Twi is adorable enough you can forgive her for that one

[Philweasel 139]

26 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Oh, I don't know about that; her sarcastic retort to Trixie after Starlight ran off in tears was quite definitely Twi enjoying a moment of Schadenfreude at Trixie's expense. It is only after she saw how much their fight had cost Trixie that she experienced remorse and went to patch things up with Starlight on Trixie's behalf.  That Trixie literally gambled her life on Starlight forgiving her probably didn't hurt much either.

I'd give her that one, because at that point she didn't quite realize that Trixie actually cared, and sounded like she was more angry for Starlight's sake than pleased with herself.

And I allow all characters some backsliding, so long as they're placed under stress. It's a rare person who doesn't fall back into bad habits when pushed to the limit, and actually makes it look like the development is organic and ongoing.

[Awkward Segway 318]

I mainly found it boring - there were good moments here and there but rarely entire episodes that were good. The only episodes that I really liked were Stranger Than Fan Fiction (because it was hilarious) and Buckball Season (which managed to capture the charm of the first few seasons of the show). The finale was pretty good too (mainly because of Trixie and Discord; mostly just Trixie), but that's cancelled out by how boring the premier was.

As a whole, the season was a huge disappointment for me due to how amazing season 5 was, but fortunately season 7 seems to be a huge improvement from season 6.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

12 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

I'd give her that one, because at that point she didn't quite realize that Trixie actually cared, and sounded like she was more angry for Starlight's sake than pleased with herself.

And I allow all characters some backsliding, so long as they're placed under stress. It's a rare person who doesn't fall back into bad habits when pushed to the limit, and actually makes it look like the development is organic and ongoing.

I think cutting both SG and Twi some slack makes sense this early in their relationship too - they were still feeling out their individual roles, and no doubt the trauma to both of them from the events in the S5 Finale is still pretty raw, too...

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

6 hours ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

- the season was almost entirely run by new writers who either didn't know better or didn't give a shit, lead by a story editor who most likely didn't give a shit. This goes back to my first point of how there was tons of bullshit, and tons of said bullshit that could have been easily avoided if the writers looked at what they were writing for more than no seconds. S7 is pretty much entirely done by new writers, with the oldest only going back to S5, yet there's a clear better quality control over what gets passed far more than there was for S6

I find it interesting you pointed out the story editor. I don't really have a problem with Josh Haber as a writer, but season seven has been so much better under Kristine Songco and Joanna Lewis, I'm really glad he's no longer story editor.

Edit: Also, Dave Polsky has been a writer since season one, and Haber started in season four. Is Haber still a writer? He hasn't had an episode yet this season. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

24 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I find it interesting you pointed out the story editor. I don't really have a problem with Josh Haber as a writer, but season seven has been so much better under Kristine Songco and Joanna Lewis, I'm really glad he's no longer story editor.

Edit: Also, Dave Polsky has been a writer since season one, and Haber started in season four. Is Haber still a writer? He hasn't had an episode yet this season. 

Haber doesn't write for the show as of right now, he can always hop back on though.

I agree that Songco and Lewis are far better than Haber as well, in fact I would go as far as saying they are better than Meghan, or Larson

I hope Meghan isn't taking lead role again in season 8, shes a good writer, but got LewCo is so good.

[Luminance 2,187]

Most of the episodes in season 6 are really forgettable or just average at most. Only a very few really stood out in being really interesting for me like Gauntlet of Fire, Heart's Warming Tale, Times are a Changeling and the Finale. That doesn't say much about the entire season from the terrible delivery of Rainbow Dash's lifelong Wonderbolt dream in Newbie Dash, Rainbow's portrayal in 28 Pranks Later, Applejack's pointless day off and other episodes I can't recall towards to. It's been a long and less than normal turnout for MLP season 6. 

[Hierok 11,833]

20 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Chrysalis hated Starlight because she is one who challenge her the idea of being a leader, and Starlight made her people turn back at her and Starlight trying to reform her near the end make Chrysalis even more piss off. Thorax, Discord and Trixie are important in this journey, if not for them, Starlight cant beat Chrysalis, but in Chrysalis perspective, it would be : 

Trixie is not important, just a useless unicorn.

Discord is just a disabled god.

Thorax defeats her with his love but Starlight is the one TOLD other changelings DiD THE SAME THING. Thorax is basically a MacGuffin in that finale.

And Starlight, a godddamn useless unicorn, student of goddamn Princess of Friendship (who beat her in Canterlot Wedding), come to make her people betray her, dethroned her then act like a goddamn moral high ground. You know how insulting it is if you are over hundred years queen, you are being dethroned by one useless unicorn and let that pony TEACH you about how to rule a kingdom and made your child betray you in one day??????? If i were Chrysalis, i would destroy that pony life in the most humiliating way then went for every other one that involve in that day.

Exactly! Thank you for pointing it out far better then I did. 

 

15 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Well, apart of that, the season was pretty weak overall. Had some great episode, but most of them where weak to outright bad. Something that stand out more since the opposite has happened with this season, and we ain't even halfway of it (if you count the US airing only of course  ). Not to mention that they now seem to know what to do with Starlight and her episodes this season are stronger and with one considered by many one of the best of the whole series, and they've managed the impossible: making McFlurry an actual character rather than follow the old baby tropes 

This is also true. Episodes like Apple Jacks day off and 28 pranks later ruined it. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

6 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Apple Jacks day off and 28 pranks later ruined it

Not as much as Fluttershy Leans In and Honest Apple ruined S7 for me. Say whatever you want about 28 Pranks but at least it's FUN, and i can defend that episode, but Fluttershy Leans In is new kind of baddddddd, BORINGNESS ~

Random thoughts about Applejak Day Off: AJ shouldnt have a DAY OFF, she need to work forever.

[Hierok 11,833]

1 hour ago, Lambdadelta said:

Not as much as Fluttershy Leans In and Honest Apple ruined S7 for me. Say whatever you want about 28 Pranks but at least it's FUN, and i can defend that episode, but Fluttershy Leans In is new kind of baddddddd, BORINGNESS ~

Random thoughts about Applejak Day Off: AJ shouldnt have a DAY OFF, she need to work forever.

Here I don't agree with you.  

Fluttershy leans in has a real character development. The problem with the episode is that the mane 6 just could have done it, but on the other hoof, the experts have more experience then the mane 6. 

Honest apple and Fillie Forever were the real lame and boring episodes of s7.

28 pranks later was just over the top, out of character, useless and very crinchy. The worst episode Mlp has ever produced. It only showed howRainbow doesn't respect others feelings. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Hierok

[CypherHoof 26,483]

6 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Here I don't agree with you.  

Fluttershy leans in has a real character development. The problem with the episode is that the mane 6 just could have done it, but on the other hoof, the experts have more experience then the mane 6. 

I disagree. This is very much Flutters acting how you would expect Flutters to act - there is nothing new here, and as much as Flutters is adorable and it is nice to see her work, this was a waste of an episode slot.

 

6 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Honest apple and Fillie Forever were the real lame and boring episodes of s7.

I hated Honest Apple - the scenario was contrived, AJ should be better than that and as for Rarity... ich.
I have a lower opinion of those characters (great though the guitar shredding was) after the episode than before.

Filly Forever, by contrast, was a good (possibly even great) story spoiled by being stretched too long to fit the episode length. The CMC are clearly taking their new role seriously, and are genuinely helping others; Rarity, by contrast, saw them as playing a game, and struggled to see them as emerging adults rather than the little fillies she remembers. Though the (plot convenient) medium of the puppy, she is brought to see her mistake, and openly admits it, apologizes for her behavior, then asks her sister if they can do something more appropriate for her age group together.

The issue with FF is in the filler, not in the story. I guess you could make the point that the extended failure sequences with Rarity served to give emphasis to her later realization and the final resolution, but I think you could have done a montage of some sort and cut out nearly ten minutes of cringeworthy programming, and the story would have been better for it.

 

6 minutes ago, Hierok said:

28 pranks later was just over the top, out of character, useless and very crinchy.

It was a fun episode. Yeah, it puts one of the aspects of RD's character in a bad light, but Pinkie's counterprank was hilariously over-the-top in a way only Pinkie could possibly pull off; it was a great Pinkie pranking episode, for RD, not so much  

 

6 minutes ago, Hierok said:

The worst episode Mlp has ever produced. It only showed how Rainbow doesn't respect others feelings. 

And yet I have known people like that - who take being the "office prankster" too far, then wonder why they don't get invited to events, are shoo'd out of rooms that are locked behind them, and so forth. RD went too far, with things only she found funny, and got taught differently and in epic fashion by Pinkie. It's not a great episode, but it is a fun one.

So, is this thread now hijacked by S7? do we need a spoiler tag for it?