spoiler The Mane 6 and Spike were dumbed down for the Season 7 Finale

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

I honestly don't see them as being dumbed down. If anything; I thought they were represented properly enough.

The biggest thing that I get is that the Pony of Shadows was perceived as a dire threat. The Pillars come from a much darker, harsher time so I can understand their unwillingness to believe that anything other than defeat or banishment was sufficient (the Sirens being an example here). Likewise, the Mane 6 and Spike have dealt with Nightmare Moon, Discord, Queen Chrysalis, King Sombra, Lord Tirek, and Starlight Glimmer all being MAJOR threats, with only Discord reforming due to Fluttershy and Starlight during a time of epiphany. Starlight is the perfect pony to have brought up the question considering her own background; as well as experience with Pharynx.

If anything I thought that they were reasonable.

[Will Guide 21,325]

4 minutes ago, PathfinderCS said:

I honestly don't see them as being dumbed down. If anything; I thought they were represented properly enough.

The biggest thing that I get is that the Pony of Shadows was perceived as a dire threat. The Pillars come from a much darker, harsher time so I can understand their unwillingness to believe that anything other than defeat or banishment was sufficient (the Sirens being an example here). Likewise, the Mane 6 and Spike have dealt with Nightmare Moon, Discord, Queen Chrysalis, King Sombra, Lord Tirek, and Starlight Glimmer all being MAJOR threats, with only Discord reforming due to Fluttershy and Starlight during a time of epiphany. Starlight is the perfect pony to have brought up the question considering her own background; as well as experience with Pharynx.

If anything I thought that they were reasonable.

Exactly! The Pillars had been sealed away for 1000 years no doubt during dark times. Of course they would have no knowledge of what has happened in all that time to convince them that anything other than banishment would work. The pillars even pointed out at episode's end that they should see their old towns and how they'd changed over the years.

[Hierok 11,829]

I think Twilight was realistic. Twilight didn't want to disappoint her idol and bring him back. She was blinded which happens a lot and is completly understandable. The rest of the mane 6 was not as good. I think it would have been better if like 2 of the mane 6 disagreed with Twilight.

[KH7672 1,604]

11 minutes ago, PathfinderCS said:

The biggest thing that I get is that the Pony of Shadows was perceived as a dire threat.

And I think that's probably where part of the issue lies. Even though the characters want to treat the Pony of Shadows as a dire threat, the viewers just don't see it,not here or back in the past besides a threatening appearance.  This creates a lack of immersion for the characters thus making them look dumb for fearing a villain that the audience doesn't fear in the slightest. But again the speaks more to the characterization of the Pony of Shadows and less to everyone else's.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

Just now, KH7672 said:

And I think that's probably where part of the issue lies. Even though the characters want to treat the Pony of Shadows as a dire threat, the viewers just don't see it,not here or back in the past besides a threatening appearance.  This creates a lack of immersion for the characters thus making them look dumb for fearing a villain that the audience doesn't fear in the slightest. But again the speaks more to the characterization of the Pony of Shadows and less to everyone else's.

That point I can agree with. While I firmly believe that every character wasn't dumbed-down or anything like that, the Pony of Shadows lacks a visible threat to show us just how dangerous he really could be. Granted, he's in a weakened state so there's only so much that he could do, but at the same time, it's hard to relate the danger. As such, while I disagree, I can see why people have issues with characterization here.

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

Only thing The Pony Of Shadows had going for him was that he managed to resist the Elements the longest among the villains (a Stone Wall, if you will).

 

Other than that, he was literally just NMM all over again.

 

P.S.: At least NMM's later appearances (especially in the comics) fixed this for her.

Edited October 31, 2017 by The Artist Formerly Known As A.V.

[Leavemealone 547]

2 hours ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Exactly! The Pillars had been sealed away for 1000 years no doubt during dark times. Of course they would have no knowledge of what has happened in all that time to convince them that anything other than banishment would work. The pillars even pointed out at episode's end that they should see their old towns and how they'd changed over the years.

I have to agree with you. Although it was eventually beneficial, Twilight should’ve been more careful. I would have thought she would realize that she would release the Pony of Shadows as well as the Pillars. 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

14 hours ago, KH7672 said:

I really like your reasoning as too why they would think talking would be a possible solution they are thoughtful caring characters after all, but I have one question for that reasoning. When?

When have we ever seen the Mane 6 ever considering talking to an evil villain, learn from them their motivation as opposed to facing them magic friendship lasers blazing. The answer in all seven seasons from what I've seen: Never. Every villain they have faced at least for the first time either the villain monologued their motivation themselves (Nightmare Moon, Chrysalis) they didn't even care about motivation and just wanted defeat (Disord, Tirek) or only after exhausting all the offensive possibilities (Starlight). However Discord is an interesting one as Fluttershy did get to talk to him, only AFTER being told it was her job to do so by Celestia and even then Twilight still wanted the easy way out reform spell.

Compare that to Starlight who has taken the time to know the character she is dealing with. Be it a villain like Chrysalis and talking to her leader to leader instead of victim to villain. Antagonists like Pharynx, at least before the mob mentality convinced her he was a lost cause then realising it was a mistake to follow that. To her friends like Trixie, looking past her arrogance and mistakes, and Maud, looking past her personality (that the Mane 6 minus Pinkie were also put off by) and looking more into why she is who she is and her love of rocks. That's the characterization I've seen Starlight has been building up toward so it is difficult to see why she wouldn't think this.

This, thank you. This was the point I was trying to make, but I was too tired to put it properly. The main six have always defeated their enemies instead of trying to talk it out first.

[RulesofRarity 489]

16 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Yes, good point. Remember how the mane 6 treat Discord during season 4 after Keep Calm and Flutter On? They even try to banish him again (beside Fluttershy) in S4 premiere. When they are betrayed in Twilight Kingdom, they didn't understand why, guess what, you never actually treat him like a friend anyway. Uh wait, remember the Reformation Spell in Keep Calm. Mane 6 records are all about defeat the villains by kicking their ass (they defeat villains like breakfast). 

I really hate the excuse that Discord betrayed the Mane 6 because they didn’t treat him like a true friend(aside from Fluttershy). Because if that’s the case why did Discord betray Fluttershy, the only pony that treated him like a true friend. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

43 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

I really hate the excuse that Discord betrayed the Mane 6 because they didn’t treat him like a true friend(aside from Fluttershy). Because if that’s the case why did Discord betray Fluttershy, the only pony that treated him like a true friend. 

Discord is still a god-like creature with free spirit, Tirek offered him freedom which is more important to Discord at that time, with Tirek, Discord can be himself again. 

[RulesofRarity 489]

8 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

Discord is still a god-like creature with free spirit, Tirek offered him freedom which is more important to Discord at that time, with Tirek, Discord can be himself again. 

The Mane 6 didn’t prevent him from him being himself, they just didn’t want him to turn Equestria back into his chaos playground. 

[Lucartini 104]

Nonsense like this is why I stopped really watching the show after season 5.

Seeing Ash lose hurt enough.

[Spilight98 166]

I found the mane 6 to be quite reasonable. Afterall there was never a sign that the pony of shadows could be reformed.  Especially considering Starswirl ( a freakin legend ) himself says he is evil.

I do wonder however if Spike thought the pony of shadows could have been reformed. Starlight spoke to him about it and he seemed to agree with Starlight a little.

But yeah he disappeared at the end so who knows. 

 

[Thrond 3,257]

17 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Damn right, when the show cant take anything seriously, dont expect the audiences will take it seriously either, like what we are doing right now, discussing a show for little girls to sell some ugly G1 dolls.  

I don't want to get too far off topic, but to put it simply, I just find the show's lore and world too dull and cliched to be particularly interesting, which is why I don't much care for the times it takes those seriously. It's why my favourite parts of this particular finale were the comic relief bits, which were solid enough that I wish more of the episode were focused on humour. Altogether, I'm glad for the show emphasizing theme, but I'm much more interested in character relationships and insecurities than in Equestria and its past, so I'd rather all the time spent world building was spent on character building instead. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Sadly in two parters since S1/S2 they tend to Dilute the other 5 to be nothing more than pawns that follow twilight and act in lockstep with her in order to give the time and focus to another character (barring the S5 premier).

So this doesn't surprise me that much. dissapoints me, but doesn't surprise me. (This is one reason I found the Movie to be vastly better than the two parters we got recently; even if AJ and Fluttershy got shafted,  the other 3 at least felt very focused on and felt more like legitimate parts of the story)

[heavens-champion 1,893]

I dunno, after seeing Stygian trying to get out of the Pony of Shadows, I think Twilight made her decision.

[bluseymoe 258]

Pretty much the only issue I had with an otherwise fantastic finale.

[EpicEnergy 22,082]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they were dumbed down, as I think that they performed quite decently for the finale.

[Evil Pink One 12,985]

Mehhh even professionals has their dumb times..... Makes it more real... Imagine if they made the mane 6 perfect?.... The title of this topic would change to " the mane 6 is too perfect.... And spike is mediocre." 

[Toastypk 920]

They did what they did because the great freaking legendary Starswirl the Bearded had returned, obviously he knows best! And he's like, Twilight's idol! She would naturally follow what he would decide.

Without considering the idea that he might actually be wrong.

[Tom Gallagher 33,521]

The latter episodes seemed to increasingly dumb the Mane Six down whenever a different character was the focus. I never liked the Season Seven finale too much.