The "Arabian Spring": success or failure, your opinions

[Friendship_Cannon 1,676]

Hey there,

 

This topic is meant to be about the so- called "Arabian Spring", a series of protests and revolutions that started in 2010 and spread to nearly all the states in the north of Africa and Saudi-arabia as well as surrounding countries.

This topic is to discuss and to share your opinion about how successful you think this arabian spring was until now, the advantages and the disadvantages of what is happening, the current development and what you think how it could evolve over the next months and years.

 

I personally supported the first part of this revolution, that leaded to an overthrow of the regimes in countries like Tunesia or Egypt, though I paid some attentions to voices warning this instability resulting would help radical parties and groups to having more influence. I didn´t expect anything like: So, now we had our revolution, we will have some elections, will build only moderate parties, will try to be democratic. Maybe, someday it will come to this, I would be happy about this, but for most of these countries have been under the control of monarchs, warlords and clans (that are still there, they still have lots of power) for decades now, this is going to take lots and lots of time...

 

Where we are currently the whole area seems to me like a big package of explosives, and a single dumb action coming from the USA or Europe could make it blow up and erase the good things that have been done with a big wave of brutality, war and hate. I guess you know what I am talking about: the provocating video coming from some privatierin the USA, making fun of the Prophet. We see what it led to, we see (once again) innocent people dying for the darn stupidity of just a few.

The rtadical groups are strong and there are many of them. There are also some people who know and have plans for bringing peace and unity to this region, but they aren´t so many, and they have to be supported.

The main part of the population has been dumbed down for decades, I guess many of them are confused, don´t know what to do next, and that makes them vulnerable and easy to affect (by radical islamists f.e.). Our (Europe´s and the USA´s quest should be know (in my opinion) to find these people who have a plan for peace and support them and their friends as good as humanly possible, to give them the strength to knock down these war-mongers and -lords and give these headless countries and their people a goal. A goal that could maybe, someday, if we have lots of luck and forget about our capitalism from time to time make this world a safer and more peaceful place for us all.

 

One last thing, I know there are many aspects I didn´t mention, now it´s about you, I want to hear your opinions, and I guess you have a lot of good points, only thing I´d ask you to is to stay calm, not to insult anyone for what he/ she´s writing here and keep it respectful.

 

Peace and Love

 

Your Friend

[Stalliongrad 982]

To me the Arab Spring initially was a success. Egypt and Tunisia was the beginning and it showed that people were tired of having the same person in charge for 30 years. Libya i followed very closely because it was a very inspirational revolution. Everyone in the country contributed. Teachers became soldiers, Builders became weapon makers. The fall of Benghazi and the Nafusa mountains campaign and the push to Tripoli. The Arab spring started going sour when governments refused to bend to the will of the people. Syria doesnt tolerate uprisings you stand against the government they shoot you end of story. And thats when the world starts to pay attention. Its a shame it has to come to that but that is how change happens. Freedom is not free. As far as the United States involvement goes it is very hypocritical of us to support these uprisings then demand things from the new governments. It always bites us in the butt. If you do your history you will see thar WE put Saddam Hussein in charge of Iraq. When the mujahadeen was fighting the soviet Union we aided them and put them in power in Afghanistan. We always make friends who later become enemies. We need to learn more about how to be respectful of Sharia Law. I dont even wanna get religious but thats what it comes down too. We have to learn to let them run their nations they way they want. An anti islamic film gets put on youtube and four Diplomats get killed. I can understand their anger but it should not warrant violence. And its very hypocritical of those nations to get upset when Islam is bashed but they themselves do alot of Christian bashing. Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet in their faith. I dont understand why any of it is allowed. The only nation i see that will not be effected a great deal is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Sharia Law is in full effect and to be honest other than the conservative nature of the government people their have no reason to revolt. I just hope the oppressive governments fall to democracy soon so the blood will stop spilling.

[Killian Jones 2,655]

As it stands now, it may have ended up in failure. While the idea of the revolution to overthrow the post colonization institutions which mongered all the power and wealth to a few. And overthrowing these governments wasn't a bad thing.

 

The issue starts when already radical groups try to form legitimate political parties and gain votes through playing into the fears of an unstable country. It's an easy and sure fire way to do it and again and again it is happening. It happened in the post Great Depression era, it's happening after this huge financial and political crisis.

 

The big issue I have seen is that Shariah law was enacted, basically not creating a much better environment for freedom then previous. It may even be to a point where before it may have been better then now. Although that remains to be seen. Things still have to evolve and these countries have to become more stable.

[Silverhoof 2,844]

Sad to say, it was a failure.

The Arabs replaced brutal dictators with more brutal dictators. Too few understood democracy, or what it meant.

[Friendship_Cannon 1,676]

well, you surely got a point, but it was the first time after long time that there was something like a revolution against military and monarchish regimes in this area, it is generally a good sign for me a sign of change. What was a failure of them and of ours was not to react as we should have: that means (my opinion) support the anti-radical and moderate powers, but only in a cautious way, like give them food for thoughts. What wouldn´t work is trying to influence this progress in an open way, we have a way too bad image down there.

 

But as long there are powers like for example the russian government (permanent member of the UN Security Council btw) blocking like we see right at moment in Syria this won´t be able...

 

Of course there is misunderstanding at these countries, asking themselves "why did the west support the revoutionary movement of only a few countries".

 

And even if there are decades to go, dozends of civil wars to be pushed through until some moderate powers become strong enough to take over, I won´t call it a total failure until now, at least it was an idea of freedom, though it got nearly destroyed by other radical powers...

[Brook 663]

It's hard to give an un-biased opinion on this, given the fact I'm an Israeli jew that doesn't really give a shit, but I have some things I'd like to say.

 

First, I need to talk about gaza, they HAD democracy, and who won the election? the terrorist party. Those guys fucked themselves.

 

Second, when it comes to Egypt, the revoloution helped, but not by much. All I know is that it just gave them more bad rulers; More freedom, but more bad rulers.

 

That's as far as I'm going to go, I honestly don't want to give more opinions, sorry.

Edited September 16, 2012 by RiverBankNut

[Killian Jones 2,655]

On the Gaza situation, it's the same with the Arabian Spring parties, the radical parties promise a form of stability that more moderate parties cannot. The problem is, Gaza is very unstable and remain to be, however people don't see those promises don't actually deliver.

 

It happens time and time again. And on the Gaza situation, it is horrible, considering the fact that they are cut off from foreign aid, trade and many other things, they want out. And if moderate parties don't work, extremists swoop in.

[Planty 1,053]

In my opinion i think ti was a mixed bag.

 

It's great to overthrow powerful leader's that don't care about all of the country only there tribe, but the problem is that the countries are still tribal. This has been seen where radical parties, get voted in but many are still un-happy with this so there are more protest's and maybe even there will be future revolution's.

 

The problem is that poverty in many of the countries will not be fixed by a change of government and thus, people will do what's best for them. This will mean that there will still be fighting in these countries in the future and they will be unstable for many year's to come.

 

Hopefully though, this will be the start of change that will bring about less fighting but just like our revolution's into more government orientated ruling it will take a lot of time.

 

I would also question weather western power are actually helping at all by forcing revolution's in some countries. Just because we currently have our system's doesn't mean they are right for everyone. Remember also that democracy is also a way for USA/UK or other superpower's to potentially change the leader's into ones that will support them more.

 

Gaddafi got unseated by the western world, but this was only after he refused to sell oil to the US. Remember that the western world is more greedy then many of the past leader's in these countries and will do anything and everything to get what they want.

[PlunderSteed 1,252]

Gaddafi got unseated by the western world, but this was only after he refused to sell oil to the US. Remember that the western world is more greedy then many of the past leader's in these countries and will do anything and everything to get what they want.

 

It sounds like you're implying that Gaddafi was overthrown because he didn't want to sell oil. Libya was not (and never has been) a major factor in US oil imports. This chart shows that oil exported from Libya to the US peaked around 5 million barrels/month a few years ago, but is a tiny sliver compared to what the US imports from Saudi or Venezuela.

 

The US does a lot of aggressive and dumb things over oil, but the figures don't support the notion that the Libyan war is directly related to oil.

[Brook 663]

On the Gaza situation, it's the same with the Arabian Spring parties, the radical parties promise a form of stability that more moderate parties cannot. The problem is, Gaza is very unstable and remain to be, however people don't see those promises don't actually deliver.

 

It happens time and time again. And on the Gaza situation, it is horrible, considering the fact that they are cut off from foreign aid, trade and many other things, they want out. And if moderate parties don't work, extremists swoop in.

 

One thing is that Israel actually supplied Gaza (clothing, food, medicine, etc.), untill they started attacking, and trust me, we want them out, but the Hamas won't agree to anything but Israel being destroyed. So, unless they make a revoloution (agian), they're just going to suffer, and no one can do anything.

[Planty 1,053]

@,

It sounds like you're implying that Gaddafi was overthrown because he didn't want to sell oil. Libya was not (and never has been) a major factor in US oil imports. This chart shows that oil exported from Libya to the US peaked around 5 million barrels/month a few years ago, but is a tiny sliver compared to what the US imports from Saudi or Venezuela.

 

The US does a lot of aggressive and dumb things over oil, but the figures don't support the notion that the Libyan war is directly related to oil.

 

You might be right, it's what Ive been lead to believe and i admit i have become very cynical of thing's like this, to me it seems that they would do anything and everything for it. :/

 

I just find it hard to believe that they would want to unseat a leader just to free people that will then infight for year's.

[AegisReflector 886]

I think it was a failure only because these are countries who have never really experienced a "free state" kind of government before. Therefore, that's why you see many struggles when they created Egypt's new constitution and is now why the military is partially in power. All these countries have been ruled by brutal terror families for decades now and that seems to be the only thing the civilians in the Spring area know how to operate with. Their ideas for democracy and freedom are very limited, which is clearly understandable, as they are new to this.

[Killian Jones 2,655]

@, I do realize that the whole question is a very difficult one. And opinions vary, but the legitimacy of Israel and how the Palestinians are coerced out of territory they originally owned. This is obviously causing struggles, especially if Israel doesn't want compromise nor the Palestinians. Therefor you cannot expect stability if that stability comes from such friction

 

However, oppressive regular regimes are now being replaced with Muslim regimes, which isn't better. At all. The Dark Ages of the Arabian Territories continues.