Elements of Harmony + Nightmare Moon = Different Results?

[NavelColt 22,876]

Exhibit A:

 

"Luna, you've become wicked, sister, I must now banish you to space camp for a thousand years!

 

"Bwhahaha, you cannot imprison me, Celestia, you-oh crap-AAAAAAAAAAAH!"

 

Nightmare Moon is hit by Elements of Harmony. Result? Sealed in the moon.

 

Exhibit B:

 

"Mwahahaha, I'm back! You silly fillies and your cuteness cannot overcome my generic villain laugh!"

 

"Rainbow Friendship Cannon, GO!"

 

"Ooooh yeah! It's time to taste the PAINBOW!"

 

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

 

Nightmare Moon is again hit by the Elements. Natural cause and effect would dictate she's sent back into the moon. BUT NO. She is turned back into Luna. HAX?

 

--

 

Alright, time to be a tad more serious.

 

Why couldn't the Elements of Harmony have destroyed 'Nightmare Moon' and returned Luna back to normal the first time around, when Celestia used them? Why did they banish her in the moon the first time, and then redeem her the second time? Were they somehow incapable of redeeming Luna that thousand years ago, or was it something to do with the fact that Celestia alone was using them, and that it took the full six 'Element Wielders' to redeem her completely?

 

My best guess is that Celestia couldn't wield the magic of the Elements the proper way, by herself. Let's look at the three times the Elements have been used to kick ass, shall we?

 

Discord, whatever did we do, to make you take our world away?

Celestia and Luna, working together, had the exact same power level over the elements that the Mane Six had later on. This is fact, because in both cases, Discord was successfully turned to stone.

 

Luna's Banishment to Space Camp

Celestia was alone this time. Luna was not helping her, thus, in a way, she was magically crippled and could not use the Elements to their full potential. All she could do was use the Elements to increase her own magical prowess; the result being she banished Nightmare Moon to the moon. She probably knew she had to wait for a group of ponies that could wield the Elements' full power to come along, so that they could fully redeem Luna in the way she alone was unable to do.

 

Bye Nightmare Moon

Nightmare Moon is hit by the elements by the Mane Six, who are able to wield their full power, and she is redeemed thusly. Everyone lived happily ever after until Discord showed up and screwed things up again.

 

Your thoughts? Any other ideas? Alterations? To some of you this is probably a no-brainer, but you know as well as I that there's no logic in assuming everyone sees it that way.

Edited September 24, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[RazzyJam 1,519]

SUDDEN BRAIN EXPLOSION!!!!

It wasn't just a punishment for Luna/NMM, it was a punishment for Celestia as well! BOOM! Everything makes sense now.

 

Perhaps the elements have a mind of their own and know what is appropriate at the moment. Perhaps they are able to see the purity of the wielders heart and the crimes of the villan in question before they make a judgement on punishment. It could be that the elements just knew that Celestia wasn't quite being fair with the elements when Banishing NMM, and that is really saying something considering Im usually in support of Celestia's actions.

 

As for Discord, he didn't really learn his lesson while he was in stone confinement, so he needed to be turned to stone again perhaps? He was tyrannical and sadistic before, and he still was upon his escape, so he should suffer the same punishment logically.

 

Im not sure Celestia knew of the repercussions of wielding the elements agains her sister, but I do think that if above theory is true, she would know that she needed someone with pure intent to save her sister. However in that sense, it would mean that Celestia herself hadn't learned her lesson still after 1000 years,so perhaps it just makes sense that she was no longer able to wield the elements because their power had transgressed from her.

 

Just my thought, lemme know if it "seems legit"

Edited September 24, 2012 by WingedRatchet

[Winona the Dog 1,981]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Celesta simply couldnt use the Elements to thier full potential and thus could'nt un-corrupt Luna.

 

Perhaps she wanted to wait until tthe day the EoH would re connect with somepony else.

[NavelColt 22,876]

SUDDEN BRAIN EXPLOSION!!!!

It wasn't just a punishment for Luna/NMM, it was a punishment for Celestia as well! BOOM! Everything makes sense now.

 

Perhaps the elements have a mind of their own and know what is appropriate at the moment. Perhaps they are able to see the purity of the wielders heart and the crimes of the villan in question before they make a judgement on punishment. It could be that the elements just knew that Celestia wasn't quite being fair with the elements when Banishing NMM, and that is really saying something considering Im usually in support of Celestia's actions.

 

As for Discord, he didn't really learn his lesson while he was in stone confinement, so he needed to be turned to stone again perhaps? He was tyrannical and sadistic before, and he still was upon his escape, so he should suffer the same punishment logically.

Discord will never 'learn his lesson', he's the physical manifestation of chaos. It's my personal belief that the Elements act as the positive charge to his negative charge, they're harmony and he's chaos, so when he's hit by the Elements, he's petrified to stone because his powers are cancelled out by the harmonic elements.

 

I've honestly heard the 'Elements have a mind of their own, and know what's best for Equestria' several times. It's a nice theory, but I don't agree with it, because each and every occurrence where the Elements have been used can be explained in a technical way just fine, like my first post examples explain. So just chocking it up to 'The Elements just know what to do' isn't as satisfying to me.

Edited September 24, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Zygen 6,065]

I'm pretty sure the way I've always thought of it ( and I think celestia might have said something about this) that the elements where simply only able to defeat and return luna to normal because they where wielded by the mane 6 and their spirits and friendships had to do with it.

I also think that Celestia was unable to use the elements as strongly as the mane 6 could.

As for why she wasn't turned to stone. I think it is either because the mane 6 controlled it not to turn her to stone or because the elements simply have a mind of their own and chose not to turn her to stone.

[NavelColt 22,876]

As for why she wasn't turned to stone. I think it is either because the mane 6 controlled it not to turn her to stone or because the elements simply have a mind of their own and chose not to turn her to stone.

Like I was explaining to Ratchet, I'm pretty sure the 'turning to stone' thing is a special reaction that only Discord receives from being hit by the Elements ^^ He's not redeemable like Luna was, so there was no reason for her to become stone. But going even deeper than that, like I was explaining, I personally believe Discord is turned to stone because he represents pure, concentrated chaos, and is thusly the polar opposite of the Elements, which represent pure, concentrated harmony. When he's hit by the elements, his powers are cancelled out, and the reaction of harmony interacting with chaos petrifies him.

[Zygen 6,065]

Like I was explaining to Ratchet, I'm pretty sure the 'turning to stone' thing is a special reaction that only Discord receives from being hit by the Elements ^^ He's not redeemable like Luna was, so there was no reason for her to become stone. But going even deeper than that, like I was explaining, I personally believe Discord is turned to stone because he represents pure, concentrated chaos, and is thusly the polar opposite of the Elements, which represent pure, concentrated harmony. When he's hit by the elements, his powers are cancelled out, and the reaction of harmony interacting with chaos petrifies him.

 

That kinda makes sense. Its like pooring water on hot lava. Idk that probably a terrible comparison its the first thing that came to mind tho.

I do understand where your coming from tho.

[NavelColt 22,876]

That kinda makes sense. Its like pooring water on hot lava. Idk that probably a terrible comparison its the first thing that came to mind tho.

I do understand where your coming from tho.

 

No, that's actually a very good comparison ^^ That's the ideal basis I was getting at; opposites colliding. In chemistry when opposites collide, especially if they're something unstable that's concentrated, crazy stuff can happen. Water's cool temperature and nature cools down lava and turns it into molten rock. In this case, the Elements are the water, Discord is the lava, and Discord petrified to stone is the molten rock.

 

But anyway, this is transforming into a Discord topic fast. As much as I love the concept, we gotta focus on Nightmare Moon at heart ^^

Edited September 25, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Zygen 6,065]

No, that's actually a very good comparison ^^ That's the ideal basis I was getting at; opposites colliding. In chemistry when opposites collide, especially if they're something unstable that's concentrated, crazy stuff can happen sometimes. Water's cool temperature and nature cools down lava and turns it into molten rock. In this case, the Elements are the water, Discord is the lava, and Discord petrified to stone is the molten rock.

 

But anyway, this is transforming into a Discord topic fast. As much as I love the concept, we gotta focus on Nightmare Moon at heart ^^

 

Yeah, I guess its not that bad of a comparison after all! And its not really that off topic to talk about discord. I find it necessary because in order to understand why the elements of harmony do what they do.

I do suppose we probably don't need to derail it to much tho. My point still mostly stands the same. I simply think Celestia was to weak to beat nightmare moon out of Luna by herself. Only the mane 6 could harness enough power for that.

[pinkiefan1287 610]

It could be that Celestia did not have enough power at the time, seeing as the elements may need to be used in a group. So instead of purifying her, she could only seal her. So when the 6 used it in a group they were able to change her back to normal.

 

As for Discord, he is just pure evil and most likely can not be changed because he is not dealing with anything that Luna did. So he had to be turned back into stone.

Edited September 25, 2012 by pinkiefan1287

[DarligPegasi 315]

Maybe Celestia sent Luna to the moon because she was just so sad that her sister turned evil, and couldn't think logically? Therefore her magic was a bit off and she sent her to the moon, instead of restoring her to Luna. (Get it? Moon means Luna...Luna=Moon..)

 

And for Discord, the circumstances were different. When it was Celestia banishing Luna, Luna wasn't directly harming the subjects (ponies) she was making them nocturnal.

 

Discord was making everyone act irrationally; Flooding the word with chocolate rain, warping people's personalities, elongating bunny legs etc. So Celestia and Luna probably couldn't think of a quick and effective solution at the time so they turned him to stone temporarily. Then the mane 6 came and well you know what happened.

 

That's my theory anyway.

[ceresbane 61]

As for Discord, he didn't really learn his lesson while he was in stone confinement, so he needed to be turned to stone again perhaps? He was tyrannical and sadistic before, and he still was upon his escape, so he should suffer the same punishment logically.

major flaw in your argument. If discord was ever truly serious in the whole ordeal he woulda just destroyed half of equestria with a flick of his claw.

 

The guy was based off Q from star trek. He could easily do that. But instead he just joked around, playing games with the mane 6. He even got so cocky as to not expect the mane 6 to recover.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

major flaw in your argument. If discord was ever truly serious in the whole ordeal he woulda just destroyed half of equestria with a flick of his claw.

 

The guy was based off Q from star trek. He could easily do that. But instead he just joked around, playing games with the mane 6. He even got so cocky as to not expect the mane 6 to recover.

 

I dont find sadistic action and deliberate torture of ponies entertaining. With my background, I dont see how it could ever be appropriate, lets just leave it at that.

[ceresbane 61]

I dont find sadistic action and deliberate torture of ponies entertaining. With my background, I dont see how it could ever be appropriate, lets just leave it at that.

 

Discord didn't torture them at all. He just pulled a nightmare moon and tested them all and they failed.

 

I mean come on with Discord's powers I'd have tentacle monsters roaming canterlot. Drive Celestia into molestia level insanity. Restore Luna to nightmare moon by reigniting that hate she has (I mean the whole night and jealous of the sun thing was never addressed and resolved).

 

fused creatures together creating legendary monstrosities.

 

brain washed most of Equestria into hedonistic pleasure cults. and had each mare of the elements of harmony killed or sold to foreign powers (like changelings).

 

and driven all of equestria into civil war.

 

whoops I think I just went into my fanfic a bit there.

 

but yeah... Discord in those eps being sadistic? hardly.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

@@~Chaotic Discord~,

 

Luna's Banishment to Space Camp

Celestia was alone this time. Luna was not helping her, thus, in a way, she was magically crippled and could not use the Elements to their full potential. All she could do was use the Elements to increase her own magical prowess; the result being she banished Nightmare Moon to the moon. She probably knew she had to wait for a group of ponies that could wield the Elements' full power to come along, so that they could fully redeem Luna in the way she alone was unable to do.

 

You know what? I think Celestia is/was powerful enough to wield the Elements by herself, but she couldn't wield them any further as it would not only put a strain on her magic, but also the Elements themselves. The Elements, I inductively reason, are at their very best when wielded by multiple ponies - and not suited for just one pony (not even the Element of Magic her/himself), unless their magical ability and skill in friendship (as it's based on that alongside magic) is astronomically high. Maybe we will get to see Twilight herself somehow wield the Elements by herself... maybe we're due for an episode where she learns to deal with things on her own when her friends weren't available in future seasons - after all, she has insane potential in not only magic (it's her damn special talent!), but also friendship, and she got hell of a boost on the latter upon being named the Element of Magic.

 

 

One thousand years is a pretty long time, so I can see Celestia's magical ability to be on the decline. Somewhere along the many centuries that followed after Luna's banishment, she had to have played her cards just right preparing for her sister's inevitable return to Equestria, back with a vengeance no less. No longer would she be able to resort to banishments as she couldn't even do it - it would be time to find actual candidates for the Elements rather than taking up arms herself. She no longer would have as much magical ability as she once would have, and that could really wear one single pony out, no matter if she's a goddess. The thought of having to banish her sister again for 1000 years isn't cool, either... as a result, I could see Celestia enchanting the Elements so that only the ones who display genuine qualities of whatever the Element is would be taken into account.

 

Bye Nightmare Moon

Nightmare Moon is hit by the elements by the Mane Six, who are able to wield their full power, and she is redeemed thusly. Everyone lived happily ever after until Discord showed up and screwed things up again.

 

Your thoughts? Any other ideas? Alterations? To some of you this is probably a no-brainer, but you know as well as I that there's no logic in assuming everyone sees it that way.

 

The way I look at it, emotions would have to play a pretty big role in attempting to get a desired effect out of the Elements. You have to be totally in-sync with your friends of course, but that's not enough - they have to feel the same things you're feeling all the way. Remember how when Twilight realized the good in her friends which led to her becoming the Element of Magic herself? She was in tears of joy afterwords, and it easily spread over to her new-found friends - they were all happy to be together. Thus, by igniting the Elements, the rainbow that proceeded to follow was an anti-corruption attack, if you will - not only did it rid Luna's resentful behaviour and corruption as a result, but it had lasting effects as well. She even proclaimed that she "missed Celestia so much"!

 

On Discord's side, however, the Mane 6 set forth their resolve in the midst of true resolution - they were all angry with Discord, but learned a huge friendship lesson together as a group. Feelings were mixed, ranging from the joy from seeing each other again, and overall being determined to put a stop to Discord's reign of madness. As a result, the Elements generated a seemingly stronger beam this time around, as they were (the Necklaces and Tiara) given the message to wipe Discord out and cast him into stone. Not only that, but the "seemingly stronger" attack (in contrast to the pilot episode) also managed to reverse everything Discord had done. Unlike Luna of course, Discord's actions were not based off resentment or the motivation to "get back" at Celestia - he just wanted to shape Equestria in his image. It's pretty much in his nature to wreak chaos wherever he goes. As such, the Elements at this point would say, "fuck it, he's not going to change for the good anytime soon, so let's just stone the asshat".

Edited October 3, 2012 by Devin McCourty

[KTP Pretorius 16]

It could have turned out like this. The power of Elements of Harmony made NightmareMoon even stronger nad more powerful and corrupted, and turned her into a monster, one that no ony magic could beat.

 

Example, she's much taller now, and he teeth are long and sharp, more menecing than before. Her mane is like a lion's, but a deep black. Her coat (pelt, fur?) is now choppy and jagged, sometimes fluttering a bit if there's winds. Her eyes are nearly the same, except the slits are smaller, as in skinnier. Voice is deeper and maybe there's a roar or two when really mad.

 

Dang, this is does NOT sound like pony. Sound's like Kaibutsu, from GDW. Cool though. And then twilight and the rest would have to get a whole army of strong ponies from all across Equestria under Celestia's command...

 

That actually sounds kinda cool. NMM the Monster of EQ. Maybe i'll get this in as an RP.

Edited October 14, 2012 by KibaThePony

[social butterfly 0]

huh?

 

i dont get it?

whatttt?

 

elements+Nightmare Moon=Nightmare Moon not banished.

if she is not banished good bye day time.

so ya.that wont be good.

[SBaby 660]

I have a theory. It could be that what happened with Luna turning into NMM was partially Celestia's fault, possibly due to the two being less mature back then. They could've been completely different mares back then.

 

So the Elements of Harmony were originally split between the two mares, but when Luna turned evil, possibly in part due to Celestia's unwillingness to budge on the sun/moon thing (after all, what harm would the occasional eclipse cause; we have them all the time here on Earth), the Elements were forced into Celestia's possession. If this scenario rings true, then it is indeed possible that her banishment for 1000 years might have been as much a punishment for Celestia as it was for Luna. Not only did she lose her sister for a thousand years, but she was also forced to raise both the sun and the moon during that time, possibly adding to her suffering, as the moon likely constantly reminded her of her sister.

 

Note: Now that it's practically confirmed that Celestia and Luna have an episode that's supposed to explain their backstory in greater detail in Season 3, it's very possible that alot of these questions and theories might be addressed therein. But then again, Discord is also supposed to make an appearance in Season 3, so it's possible that their episode could be about the original battle against him instead.

Edited October 14, 2012 by SBaby

[Minath Khalsi 195]

I think that is partially all the weilders of the elements, and partially Celestia banished her on purpose, knowing that one day true weilders will get the elements and fully restore luna, but Celestia was just waiting for the right time.

[FedoraMemes 582]

The way I look at it, the way Celestia used the elements was different from how the Mane 6 used them.

 

Back when Celestia and Luna were still getting along, and Luna wasn't corrupted with all this black magic (I sound so hipster) they were obviously showing signs of harmony, and were good friends.

 

When Luna became Nightmare Moon, that bond that was established between the two vanished, and Celestia knew she wouldn't be able to turn Nightmare Moon back into Luna, because she would most likely become jealous of her sister again, and become a rage filled Princess (and nobody likes a rage filled Princess), so the best thing that Celestia could do would be to imprison Luna, so that she would learn from her mistakes, for the greater good. Because that bond between the two was non-existent, there was obviously no sign that Luna would stay as herself for very long if Celestia reversed the effects of Nightmare Moon.

 

After 1000 year's passed, Celestia was clearly expecting Nightmare Moon, and understood that Twilight was a social outcast, so really, if you put two and two together, you can see that Celestia wanted to help Twilight, it was all part of her evil plan.

 

Twilight wouldn't be able to learn what friendship truly was if Celestia was doing all the work for her, and by then, the part of Luna that perhaps stayed dormant, or trapped inside Nightmare Moon wanted to be forgiven by her sister, and Celestia obviously knew this, which is why she got Twilight to use the Elements with her friends, because being able to stop Nightmare Moon, as well as educate her student was what Celestia wanted, so why not kill two birds with one stone?

 

Another theory is that Celestia could perhaps see into the future, and could see that Twilight was a social outcast, so she banished Luna to the moon so that when she returned, Twilight could find out what friendship truly was.

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

Well I see it this way. NMM and Luna are two very different beings. The one we saw during the first episode was the outer shell of a greater evil. It trapped Luna inside, and absorbed her power, that being said... It could be that Celestia didn't know the full power of the elements, and instead of freeing her sister, she booted her up to the moon. When the mane 6 did it, the one evil being was basically ripped away from Luna, meaning that the evil being either was sent to a place where it could be kept imprisoned, or it was just destroyed.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Dusty Soul