Symbolism in MLP:FIM and hidden knowledge

[Twilight Circuits 603]

 

I've read your scripture. It seems very Christian Biblie-inspired. Do you know that there are also other ancient scriptures beside the Christian Bible? And that the English translation of the Bible is far from the original? Try to read it in Hebrew, you'll be surprised what's really there. And try to fill the gaps with what's written in other ancient scriptures. For example, Sefer Yetzirah (The Book of Creation) explains in more detail the part when the world has been created and how the Hebrew alphabet (not the actual glyphs, but archetypal meanings of these symbols) played a crucial role in it, like chemical elements in Chemistry.

 

I also saw your videos where you read your scriptures (and I hope it was only a cosplay ;-) ), and I have read your blog where you try to explain them further. Unfortunately, you talk too much about revealing it instead of actually doing it :-P After several pages of promises but no revelations I became bored and gave up ;-/

 

 

Well, I saw that you liked the Hate Seed & Wooden Toaster's "Awoken" song. I like them very much too, especially the Aviators' version. The lyrics are very suggestive. But notice also that the refrain/chorus (I don't know if I used the correct word) which sings "Now I'm awoken" repeats itself several times. It's also very suggestive trick with deeper meaning ;-) For me it suggests that awakening is not a one-step process, but it's continuous. You can awake many times, because the dream is multi-level, "Inception" style ;-) So don't become too messianic after the first awakening, because you could awake from one dream and still be in another ;-J I've gone through several such "awakenings" in my life, so now I'm a little bit more chilled out with shouting about it to the people. I just know that it'll happen again in my future.

 

I was also very inspired by "The Secret" book & movie and all this stuff about The Law of Attraction. But "The Secret" is just a tip of an iceberg. This book is based on several other books, like "The Science of Getting Rich" by Wallace Wattles or "Conversations with God", for a few examples. The Law of Attraction is also not the very basic law of the Universe (though quite important one). There are also other laws, even more important, which the Law of Attraction can be derived from. So don't stop on this, don't feel enlightened after just tipping the iceberg, but always dig deeper. There's more in this Law of Attraction than meets the eye, and there are hints in the history of how to find the rest of it.

 

 

Yees, there was. But I haven't seen any single person with the symptoms of activated DNA so far.

 

And they multiplied the number of DNA strands which should be there, from 3 up to 12. While it's true that DNA particles can form microtubules with 12 strands intertwined, this is not a genetic information anymore. It's another kind of particle. So I'm not so sure it's all plausible.

 

There has also been talk about the symptoms of this DNA activation; for example that when you activate all 12 strands, your iris will become hexagonal. I wonder if it inspired the Crystal Ponies ;-J You can see hexagonal shines in their eyes all the time:

 

 

They also become more and more transparent and shiny when they're "activated" by love and other positive emotions. Strangely, this involves not only the Crystal Ponies from the Crystal Empire themselves, but also our heroes from Ponyville:

 

 

which indicates that this phenomenon is not reserved to Crystal Ponies alone. This reminds me about another theory similar to DNA activation: that the element silicon has very similar chemical properties to carbon, which we are all made of. Both carbon and silicon lay in the same group in the periodic table (one just below the other), and both can join with 4 other atoms in the same geometrical pattern. The only difference is that one of them is heavier, and they have different "resonant signatures" (atomic spectra of absorbed/emitted light). So the theory says that the DNA activation causes silicon to replace carbon in our bodies (well, it's already true with some women ;-) ), making us similar to liquid crystals. This should also change the way light interacts with our bodies. Of course, for me it's pure fantasy for now. But I decided to mention it here, because it seems related to Crystal Ponies somehow.

 

 

So do it yourself ;-) since you've already mentioned it. Feel free to write about it, I created this thread exactly for this purpose. I don't want to be the only genius here ;-D

 

But as to the Illuminati: I haven't seen any of their symbolics in the two first seasons of the show. Well, maybe two or three little symbols (I'll describe them later in a separate post), but no more, and nothing much obvious. This seems to be one of these movies prepared by the people from the Bright Side of the Force ;-J They share some symbols, because they belong to both sides of the Magic, but in my opinion the Bright Side predominates the show.

 

 

Show me.

 

 

Which God? There are so many of them in different scriptures... Even in the original Christian Bible. And they have many different names. But in the English translation they're all always translated as just "God" or "Lord", and always in singular, even if the original Hebrew word is in plural, so that one can get a feeling that there's only one God. But this is a lie we all were made to believe. There were many Gods in ancient times, and moreover, they had their own religion themselves, similar to what's described in Hermetism (because this knowledge came to us from them). 

 

 

Interesting story, but this is still your story and your experience. You may think that sharing it with other people will make them to believe you and follow the same path, but this is not the case. People have different experiences than you, and they live different lives. Any one has its own path of enlightenment and you cannot force anyone to walk the same path as yours, which won't fit them. It doesn't work that way. Anyone has to find his own path himself. You can try giving them knowledge by being messianic, but they won't listen you, because of this particular fact or Law:

Knowledge is not being given. It's always being taken.

 

It's better to just spread the word or "send the message to the world" and then just wait, for people who already seek for similar things. This is again the Law of Attraction: People will come to you themselves, you don't need to force them (soo... are you sure you've already understood the Law of Attraction at full? :-P ). And they will take your knowledge when they will need it. Because there's also another Law of the Universe, which is even deeper than the Law of Attraction: it is the Law of Free Will. Even the Law of Attraction cannot violate this law.

 

And it seems that other people noticed that too, and tried to tell it to you:

 

 

He's right. This is annoying when you try to convince everyone that you're the new Messiah of Ponified Bible (Ponifex? :-J heheh... ) because it's their choice if they want to investigate your scriptures or not. This is their way and their Free Will. This is exactly the same reason why people hate Jehova's Witnesses: they're too nagging and trying to impose their point of view to everyone, like if they were the only ones enlightened who know the Only Truth. This is annoying exactly because it violates the Law of Free Will.

 

 

So please share it with us, instead of just talking about it. Your scriptures and blog posts are too messy and full of promises which are not being fulfilled. Just tell us in short & simple words what's this all about, without all that fuss and messianic tone. Maybe it took you six years to get to that point, but it'd better not took you six years to explain it all to us.

 

But I'd prefer to read about it in another thread, because it's not so related with this one. Especially your quarrels with @@SOHCAHTOA are unimportant, for me at least.

 

 

Yes, this is another interesting phenomenon. I h8 movies with songs in them, and I hate musicals (with maybe only 1 exception: "Across the Universe"). They seem 2 lame for me. But in MLP, this is different. I love the songs in MLP, and I see that other people have similar feelings. And I see how they are making remixes, and, which is even more interesting, they started to create their own music based on MLP! :-o Looks like this show somehow inspires and awakens peoples' creativity, like no other show I've ever seen! And I still wonder how does it work and if it were planned.

 

 

If you know any of them, I'd like to talk with them too.

 

OK, so much for now, but there are several other questions I'd like to refer to. I'll do it next time. Stay tuned.

I understand all you points.

I'm going to put kinda like this. Your right, everyone is going to have their beliefs. Well, I never went to church or anything like except when i was really little and I didn't pay attention. That's why when i found God in MLP, I didn't just find God as in a belief system... Finding God means to spiritually meet your maker. I ain't kidding. When that happens... you learn what the truth is...

The truth is, that everything really is so screwed up that my biggest fear is the ridicule that would follow by giving everyone the truth. I spent six years watching the world on every level. There really is a science to spirituality. But you see just like Jesus said, it really is lonely narrow road. And it really was one of the loneliest roads I've ever travelled. All to figure it out in a time where one could be shot on the street or any number of horrible things. It's not because I don't have faith. If anything, I do... But I still know people have their god given choice. But everyone's belief system is so off kilter I sometimes wonder why I should even bother half the time. There's a beginning to what lead me find God in the end. What happened when I found God. What I learned from God. And what happened after  I found God which is still happening. The whole story could inveriably cost me my life. Does someone really have to die in this world for them to learn the truth? I guess time will tell. Until then, you're right, there's only my story.

[Jessper 735]

@Jessper or -- they don't know either, but still they make assertions as if they were omniscient.

 

Let's not put words words in my mouth. Repeatedly. I will not even go further about what you said, as you are being blatantly offensive for no reason. Don't make huge assertions when claiming others are making assertions about thread  that is one big assertion. 

 

Similarly, when I said photos around my house, I have meant things like a carpet or cups on shelves. Why? Because I had the suspicion you'd be able to find chakras in my cup positions and transcript oh the holy books of Thelema in the pattern of my carpet.

 

As I was saying, there is definitely lot of symbolism or references, rather, but you may be taking it too far. I'm still unclear whether you are serious or just "Hey, look at this, it could be X. (Even tho it prolly isn't) Fun.". If you are the second case, then it indeed is cool and fun. On the other hand if you truly believe it deeply, then it's a little disturbing.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jessper

[SasQ 1,376]

Let's not put words words in my mouth. Repeatedly.

Ooh, so now you feel that it's wrong when someone did it to you? Then please don't tell me what I would do with the photos of your carpet and what I would see there thank you very much -.-

 

I will not even go further about what you said, as you are being blatantly offensive for no reason.

Of course putting me amongst insane suicide cult leaders or people who see evil omens and symbols just about everywhere is not offensive at all, and it's not enough reason for being mad, you say? :-P And now I'm "blatantly offensive" by doing what? By defending my position at all? By disagreeing with the tail you've tried to pin to me? Then prepare to see more of me being "blatantly offensive" because I'm not going to accept your insinuations just like that. When you throw rocks, better prepare to get rocks flying back at you.

 

Oh, and I see in your profile that you already know that the way you talk often makes people think that you're annoyed, angry or offensive. Soo, you already know what's wrong but not doing anything to fix it? o.O Nice...

 

Don't make huge assertions when claiming others are making assertions about thread that is one big assertion.

I can make any assertions I want as long as I emphasize precisely that they are only speculations and personal opinions, since my mind is my business. Don't tell me what I am supposed to believe, or if it is disturbing or not, and let others decide for themselves if what I'm saying is plausible or not. You've already disagreed with it, we all have seen it, so you don't need to repeat it all the time as if it were to make it more true.

 

Similarly, when I said photos around my house, I have meant things like a carpet or cups on shelves. Why? Because I had the suspicion you'd be able to find chakras in my cup positions and transcript oh the holy books of Thelema in the pattern of my carpet.

BUT, you never tried me -- you assumed upfront what I'd do. That's exactly what I'm saying when I say that you don't know how I would react, but you've already presumed it, like if being omniscient, and put me in a box you've imagined for me. You also don't know if these symbols are there in the show on purpose or by accident (me neither), but you've already chosen to deny it. How is disbelieving without proofs better from believing without proofs? I prefer to wait for proofs (a confirmation from the producers, for example) until I change the status of my claims from mere guesses/speculations/personal opinions to (as you call it) huge assertions.

 

As I exactly stated many times, I just describe what I see. I'm not trying to assert anything for sure about why are these symbols there or if they're there on purpose or by accident. I can only guess/speculate, but then these are only my personal views. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me, so why is it so disturbing for you what other people think of it? Mind your own mind.

 

As I was saying, there is definitely lot of symbolism or references, rather, but you may be taking it too far.

Then tell me exactly where, according to you, I'm going too far and why do you think that. Which particular symbol I've found you don't agree with and why? If some of them seem to you too stretchy, just tell me, and I'll try to explain in more detail why I've chosen it as meaningful. But I cannot discuss with such general and fuzzy denials you present here.

 

I saw many people, too, who see occult symbolism everywhere. Like "Oh, I see the Sun here! Sun is the Masonic symbol because they praise the sun gods from Ancient Egypt" (WOOT? :-P So what happened with the Great Architect, and Solomon Temple's builders?). But I'm not one of them! If I were, I'd chose a picture of the Sun raising over the Ponyville and say "Look ma! Masons!".

But no. I'd never say anything about the Sun and Moon if it weren't fit in a whole context, connecting with other supporting evidence, like the Balance of the Opposites, names of the princesses and their deity-like appearance, and other references to hermetic knowledge ant ancient mythology.

 

Similarly, I'd never see the Elements of Harmony to be Platonic Solids by just noticing that there are five of them and they look similar. No. I've seen them as such because of the whole context: the name "Elements" (which was what Greeks called the Platonic Solids, see Euclid for example), the reference to harmony (see not-so-well-known Kepler's 4th law and his Harmony of the Spheres, for example; also, Platonic Solids are some particular spherical harmonics with specific properties), the reference to crystallography (gemstones), making one of them hidden and appearing only to the initiates etc.

 

With symbolism, it's the context what matters, because the context determines the meaning of the symbol. But seeing the context requires lots of knowledge, which amateur symbolists often didn't have, and that's why they fail in it. Which, unfortunately, leads to such opinions about symbolism as yours, that it's just some pattern matching mixed with folklore beliefs in omens, or seeing what's not there.

 

But, quoting Pinkie Pie from "Feeling Pinkie Keen" episode: "You don't believe it because you don't understand."

I had a grand-grandmother who liked to observe the different types of "signs" in Nature. She used to say things like: "When the Moon is in glow, water will soon be below." or that "Mountains in mist, the weather will twist". She was kind of like Zecora :-D I was laughing of her and I didn't believe her, because I couldn't find any reason why the glow around the moon could announce rains. But then I noticed that her predictions always fulfilled, which made me curious at least. Now I understand many of her predictions and I know how it worked, and I have a huge respect for her ability to observe Nature and draw conclusions from it. These "omens" she saw, were just signs of very subtle physical processes in Nature, which always lead to certain causes through seemingly chaotic perturbations in the weather (have you ever heard about the Butterfly Effect?). And she could see all this subtle net of interconnections and predict how it'll behave without powerful computers to analyze vector fields of winds, temperature and pressure maps etc. Moreover, she also knew how the heavenly bodies affect the life on Earth and how they influence things like menstrual cycles, emotions, growth of plants, agriculture etc. -- things that many people call "astrology" and put between fairy tales and soothsaying. But for me, this is science, with very old and ancient tradition. So ancient, that no one remembers its origins and no one know how it works, so no one believe it in our Science-dominated world (too bad that our Science is so much selective).

 

I'm still unclear whether you are serious or ...

Why do you need to be sure? To have another reason for mockery? '_'

 

You don't even see where you are obviously wrong, you just look for similarities, and you have found a lot, but far from all those likenesses is correct.

Then please be so kind and correct me. I'm only human, I can err.

 

Like the Gnostic "tree of adam"

I didn't know it under that name. Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

No one knows everything, so if you have some additional information about that tree, please share it with us. I like to learn new things.

 

Ok, nice, the six elements fit perfectly the six first Sephira, ..... but where are the other four Sephira?

I'm glad you asked. I knew that someone will ultimately ask this question, and I waited for so long wondering who will be observant enough ;-J

 

Look closely to the picture. Not only these six circles (Sephirot) match, but also the lines connecting them (the "branches"). And also the surrounding lines connecting them around the perimeter: in the picture they're connected by the elliptic shape in the background. Also, there's that central axis in the background below the device which matches one of the bottom connections. But as to the missing Sephirot: Notice how two of them match with these "levels" of the device, upper and lower rings. I mean these horizontal rings surrounding the conical shape of the "root" of the supporting device, with some wavy lines on them.

 

I know this might seem a bit stretchy, but keep in mind that they couldn't just put the whole damn Kaballistic Tree of Life at plain sight there, because someone from the TV station management would certainly spot that and could ban the show for using too much occult symbolism. This would be too risky. If I were the one to put these symbols there and pass some message to the audience, I wouldn't put it just at plain sight, but use some tricks to hide it better to pass the censorship, counting on that "those who know" will spot these symbols anyway, even if some of the parts are not directly visible. It's like with the following picture:

 

 

Even if there are no triangles in this picture, you can clearly "see" one, because your mind can "connect the dots" basing on its experience with geometrical shapes. The same goes with hidden symbolism: if you know the symbol and its context, you can spot it even if some parts of it are missing, as long as the context is telling you that this symbol is hidden there, using your experience with such hidden symbolism. That's why they call it "hidden symbols" and not "apparent symbols" anyway ;-)

 

In one of my previous posts I pasted a photo of a fresco "The School of Athenes" by Rafael Santi and showed one of the hidden messages there. But this one was hidden only by the amount of knowledge one has. There are also other symbols which are not so much at plain sight -- they're hidden in the geometry of the composition, and you can find them only by finding the "hot spots" of the picture and connecting the dots to see the geometrical patterns:

 

 

Also, seeing these geometrical figures is not enough. To get any useful information from it (instead of just esciting of what you've found so far), you need next to calculate it, by using geometry and mathematics, to get the numbers. But this is whole another story...

You say one is empty on purpose, it has to be found, thereby referring to the element of magic. But. This means you have counted the element of magic twice.

Why? Read carefully. I wrote that in the Kabalistic Tree of Life one of the Sephirot is often hidden (not drawn): the one at the center above, caled "Da'at". It was supposed to be inferred (like the triangle in a picture above) by using your knowledge. I'm not saying it's hidden in the stained glass from Celestia's palace. But the Element of Magic, represented by Twilight, is exactly there, at the center, and we know from the show that this particular element was hidden, and needed to be revealed by using Twilight's knowledge about Magic and the "Sparkle of Magic" from her friendship. That's all I say. See the connection now?

 

And. Even so, there is still three Sephira left that isn't there.

I've explained it above.

These symbols cannot be so much explicit (they're hidden after all) because they'd ban the cartoon before we could see them. The same goes with hexagrams and pentagrams, which in most cases in the show are "cartoonized" instead of being geometrically perfect. You can spot them only by seeing them in the greater context and seeing the repeating consistent pattern (i.e. that they always use 6-pointed stars with relation to Bright Magic and 5-pointed stars with relation to Dark Magic consistently across the whole 62 episodes so far).

 

see if you can find how the sisters raising moon and sun is different from the Yin/Yang-symbol as a training ... or perhaps someone already has told you.

No. You can be first. Tell me ;-)

 

 

I'll admit, I was a little worried when you didn't respond to this topic after a while. ... Or maybe you were just away from your computer for a while, who fucking knows. It doesn't matter, you came back.

Yes. The reason was as prosaic as that. I don't always have time to write. So I write rare but long posts when I have some free time.

 

P.S.: Something is constantly glitching with this forum's editor :-/ I cannot predict when it will show quotes' authors or disappear it, or it sometimes corrupts the formatting and I need to edit my post several times to get the required look.

Edited January 22, 2013 by SasQ

[Jessper 735]

Of course putting me amongst insane suicide cult leaders or people who see evil omens and symbols just about everywhere is not offensive at all, and it's not enough reason for being mad, you say?

 

As a matter of fact I wasn't even talking with you, much less about you. Read it again. So yeah, it's not enough, "I say".

 

Plus, cult leaders and generally very intelligent people, too intelligent for their own good one might say, similarly, people seeing patterns in the form or omens and symbols in the world were regarded as prophets and seers throughout the history. Even if you misread what I said, it's not necessary offensive. The only bad part about them is, that they are very often led to their own doom by their "gift".

 

And yeah, I generally sound way more serious than I really am, but there is nothing I can do when people simply don't read what I say, I'm hardly responsible for that.

 

 

And now I'm "blatantly offensive" by doing what?

 

What about assuming - wait, no. What about stating you know what I "and people like me" (people who don't agree with you 100%?) would say and think again and again. Not mentioning assigning various "traits" such as ignorance, stupidity and gullibility based on a post that offended YOU on a personal level and I didn't even write.

 

 

Don't tell me what I am supposed to believe, or if it is disturbing or not, and let others decide for themselves if what I'm saying is plausible or not. You've already disagreed with it, we all have seen it, so you don't need to repeat it all the time as if it were to make it more true.

 

I'm not saying what you are to believe, I keep asking if you honestly believe everything you wrote really is there. It's not implying or commanding anything, it's a yes or no question. And who "we"? You and Crowley's ghost?

But out of curiosity, what exactly I disagree with?

 

 

BUT, you never tried me -- you assumed upfront what I'd do.

 

It was a joke. You really, honestly, can't say that was a hype and a joke? 

 

 

I say that you don't know how I would react, but you've already presumed it, like if being omniscient, and put me in a box you've imagined for me. You also don't know if these symbols are there in the show on purpose or by accident (me neither), but you've already chosen to deny it. How is disbelieving without proofs better from believing without proofs? I prefer to wait for proofs (a confirmation from the producers, for example) until I change the status of my claims from mere guesses/speculations/personal opinions to (as you call it) huge assertions.

 

 

I didn't - ... Wait. What? I mean, seriously, what? Did we suddenly jump into God debate along the way and I didn't the memo?

And it also made me wonder as to what do you think assertion is anyway, since you made it sound as if personal guesses and speculations were that much different.

 

 

Why do you need to be sure? To have another reason for mockery? '_'

 

 

 

You are being mocked only because you misread posts and base way too much on what you didn't read.

The reason I asked that several time is really simple. I'll tell you if you calm down. 

 

 

You know, when you are talking to me, you can say whatever you like, be nice, be an ass, whisper or yell, I'm fine with that, but "mentioning" me and things I didn't even say (what you think I would say) in very offensive manner throughout your posts when talking to someone else is not cool. Don't do that.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jessper

[Tiina Brown 67]

_____________

Then please be so kind and correct me. I'm only human, I can err.

 

I didn't know it under that name. Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

No one knows everything, so if you have some additional information about that tree, please share it with us. I like to learn new things.

___________

Look closely to the picture. Not only these six circles (Sephirot) match, but also the lines connecting them (the "branches"). And also the surrounding lines connecting them around the perimeter: in the picture they're connected by the elliptic shape in the background. Also, there's that central axis in the background below the device which matches one of the bottom connections. But as to the missing Sephirot: Notice how two of them match with these "levels" of the device, upper and lower rings. I mean these horizontal rings surrounding the conical shape of the "root" of the supporting device, with some wavy lines on them.

 

I know this might seem a bit stretchy, but keep in mind that they couldn't just put the whole damn Kaballistic Tree of Life at plain sight there, because someone from the TV station management would certainly spot that and could ban the show for using too much occult symbolism. This would be too risky. If I were the one to put these symbols there and pass some message to the audience, I wouldn't put it just at plain sight, but use some tricks to hide it better to pass the censorship, counting on that "those who know" will spot these symbols anyway, even if some of the parts are not directly visible. It's like with the following picture:

 

 

Even if there are no triangles in this picture, you can clearly "see" one, because your mind can "connect the dots" basing on its experience with geometrical shapes. The same goes with hidden symbolism: if you know the symbol and its context, you can spot it even if some parts of it are missing, as long as the context is telling you that this symbol is hidden there, using your experience with such hidden symbolism. That's why they call it "hidden symbols" and not "apparent symbols" anyway ;-)

 

In one of my previous posts I pasted a photo of a fresco "The School of Athenes" by Rafael Santi and showed one of the hidden messages there. But this one was hidden only by the amount of knowledge one has. There are also other symbols which are not so much at plain sight -- they're hidden in the geometry of the composition, and you can find them only by finding the "hot spots" of the picture and connecting the dots to see the geometrical patterns:

 

 

 

Also, seeing these geometrical figures is not enough. To get any useful information from it (instead of just esciting of what you've found so far), you need next to calculate it, by using geometry and mathematics, to get the numbers. But this is whole another story...

 

Why? Read carefully. I wrote that in the Kabalistic Tree of Life one of the Sephirot is often hidden (not drawn): the one at the center above, caled "Da'at". It was supposed to be inferred (like the triangle in a picture above) by using your knowledge. I'm not saying it's hidden in the stained glass from Celestia's palace. But the Element of Magic, represented by Twilight, is exactly there, at the center, and we know from the show that this particular element was hidden, and needed to be revealed by using Twilight's knowledge about Magic and the "Sparkle of Magic" from her friendship. That's all I say. See the connection now?

 

 

I've explained it above.

These symbols cannot be so much explicit (they're hidden after all) because they'd ban the cartoon before we could see them. The same goes with hexagrams and pentagrams, which in most cases in the show are "cartoonized" instead of being geometrically perfect. You can spot them only by seeing them in the greater context and seeing the repeating consistent pattern (i.e. that they always use 6-pointed stars with relation to Bright Magic and 5-pointed stars with relation to Dark Magic consistently across the whole 62 episodes so far).

 

 

No. You can be first. Tell me ;-)

 

 

 

Yes. The reason was as prosaic as that. I don't always have time to write. So I write rare but long posts when I have some free time.

 

P.S.: Something is constantly glitching with this forum's editor :-/ I cannot predict when it will show quotes' authors or disappear it, or it sometimes corrupts the formatting and I need to edit my post several times to get the required look.

Yes, "The tree of Adam" is just another name for that same kabbalistic tree.

It refers to, or implies that it holds the "blueprint to life", or something such.

Except for that, i don't think that i technically know more than you about it, ... or perhaps i do, but if i find it valid for this topic, i may mention it.

 

It would be interesting to see you try to fit the Mane 6 into the known Sephira, though ....

 

So, we have 6 sephira, one void, .... the void matches what you call "the upper level" .... one matches the "lower level", .... and you mean that the remaining 3 can be deducted mathematically?

But?

There is one more problem (it was some time since i looked at the actual tree as depicted) you told me i was wrong about it, and yes you were correct, but in the case of the FiM window, the "da'at" is fully visible, ..... but that means that in the kabbalah, Twilight is hidden, and not one of the 10 known Sephira!

In that case, you have a full 5 sephira unaccounted for in the FiM window, or 3 if we count the "levels".

 

Sorry, that is essentially the same as "too many "if's" .. "

The result of too many if's, is that the probability for unintentional similarity becomes far more probable. It looks good, simply.

 

However, there is the "tree" thing ....

But instead of comparing it directly to "our" Kabbalah, one might see it as an attempt to make an "Equestrian Kabbalah".

That would explain both the similarities and the differences, as i see it.

 

......

And so, the yin/yang compared to the sisters pushing the sun and the moon:

The heart of light is dark, and the heart of dark is light.

However, Celestia(light) pushes the Sun .... no darkness there, while Luna(dark) pushes the moon ... ok, there is some light there, but not always, and not much compared to the sun ....

Essentially, the pic on Celestia and Luna pushing the Sun and the Moon looks very similar to the yin/yang symbol, but if one understands the symbolism, the pictures are very different indeed.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Tiina Brown

[Smilodon 18]

This is very interesting. The strange thing is, all this makes sense, and I'm almost positive it wasn't intentional. I mean, why would all that be in a kiddie show? What if it wasn't intentional, but all those symbols are so integrated into our brains somehow (ether from seeing them over and over again, or just from nature itself somehow), that the creators put them into the show subconsciously? Now I'm going to have to look for all those symbols in other media and find a way to test that theory. 

 

It was good to know about those equations too. I noticed them the first time I saw those episodes, and being the science geek I am, I was curious about them; and wanted to know if they were real equations or just random scribbles. 

 

Well anyways, I hope you post more symbols you find. This is fascinating!

[Freewave 1,145]

Well this was an interesting thread. I like when someone posts a lot of information about what they see and then sees what sticks for people. Shame it became more of a heated debate on who's alternate philosiphies are better or an effort to trump what's in here. If you want to post alternate religious views of the symbolism of the show it could make sense to start an alternate thread rather than try to wrestle attention from this one (or whine if your efforts are unsuccessful). Especially when some of those views are very different than the scientific scope what's discussed in here.  <_<

 

Hats off for SasQ for this thread and all the research that's been done for it.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Freewave

[SOHCAHTOA 51]

I understand all you points.

I'm going to put kinda like this. Your right, everyone is going to have their beliefs. Well, I never went to church or anything like except when i was really little and I didn't pay attention. That's why when i found God in MLP, I didn't just find God as in a belief system... Finding God means to spiritually meet your maker. I ain't kidding. When that happens... you learn what the truth is...

The truth is, that everything really is so screwed up that my biggest fear is the ridicule that would follow by giving everyone the truth. I spent six years watching the world on every level. There really is a science to spirituality. But you see just like Jesus said, it really is lonely narrow road. And it really was one of the loneliest roads I've ever travelled. All to figure it out in a time where one could be shot on the street or any number of horrible things. It's not because I don't have faith. If anything, I do... But I still know people have their god given choice. But everyone's belief system is so off kilter I sometimes wonder why I should even bother half the time. There's a beginning to what lead me find God in the end. What happened when I found God. What I learned from God. And what happened after  I found God which is still happening. The whole story could inveriably cost me my life. Does someone really have to die in this world for them to learn the truth? I guess time will tell. Until then, you're right, there's only my story.

 

Ok. I know I shouldn't say this on the internet. But come what may, I'm not the type of guy to keep my thoughts to myself.

 

 

 

Finding God means to spiritually meet your maker. I ain't kidding. When that happens... you learn what the truth is...

 

Your first mistake is talking about religion on the internet. And my first mistake on this post is answering that, but oh well.

 

To put it simply: God has no effect whatsoever on your knowledge or wisdom. Usually, he's a step back, if anything. Because people who believe in some sort of god tend to just dismiss anything they don't understand as work of god, and make no effort to learn more. Of course you're different, you managed to learn a lot. Your problem is that your belief in god has made you believe you already learned everything you could learn. One does not need to find god to learn more, and there is nothing one can only learn if he believes in god.

 

 

 

The truth is

 

And this is you second mistake. Believing that there is a single truth. That's an understandable mistake, since only philophers tend to discover this isn't true. What's really a shame is that you believe you know what this truth is. To be so disillusioned... (ohmyohmyohmyohmyohmyohmyi'mjustmakingmyselfatargetforflameain'tI?)

 

The truth is, the world is more than one thing. It is simply too big to be just one thing. And it might be true to you that the world is screwed up, but you know what? To someone else, the truth is different. To some people, it might be just like you say, to some it might be slightly different than what you say and to some it might be the complete opposite. But one way or the other, whatever you believe is the truth, that's YOUR truth, so don't assume it goes for everyone. Because the truth is not absolute, and two things that contradict themselves may both be true.

 

 

 

I spent six years watching the world on every level

 

Mistake number 3. Man, I really didn't plan to make this a running theme, but you make this too easy. No you did not watch the world on every level. And even if you did, watching is not enough to understand something. You need to live it. Were you ever a hobo? A CEO perhaps? You know that "watching the world on every level", implies you did so regarding every place and every culture right? Well, tell me about the polictical situation on brazil. Yes, that is relevant, because in brazil we talk about polictics casually. Even if you didn't follow the elections you should know what people were talking about the candidates if you were "watching that level of the world".

 

 

 

I sometimes wonder why I should even bother half the time

 

Now, the last thing I'll talk about. This isn't a mistake you commited, it is just something I want to give my opinion on.

 

Why should you bother, you ask? Well, that depends. To some people, it is "the goods outweigh the bads". To others, it's "I have nothing else to do", and to others yet the only thing stopping them from committing suicide is fear of death. And you know what, I used to ask myself that question too. "Why should I even bother?", I thought. But unlike most people, I didn't stop questioning that until I got a satisfying answer. And you know the answer I got? "Why shouldn't you?"

 

Seriously. I don't need much motivation, so when I started thinking about both sides of the question, I realized that there were about as much reasons to bother than to not bother. And contrary to what you might think, that didn't make me realize I should care about what happens. If anything, that made me realize that I didn't give a flying sh*t about anything that doesn't concern me. What's the point of worrying if you can fix the problem? What's the use of worrying if you can't? There are kids starving in Africa, but blaming myself for it won't make their situation any better. Once I can do anything about it, I will, but for now, I'll just focus on my studies and on having fun.

 

But if ignoring the evils of the world is not your style, then there's the old saying: "Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness". Remember Hurricane Fluttershy? What was the lesson? No matter how little you can actually contribute, every bit counts.

[Tiina Brown 67]

Ok. I know I shouldn't say this on the internet. But come what may, I'm not the type of guy to keep my thoughts to myself.

 

 

 

 

Your first mistake is talking about religion on the internet. And my first mistake on this post is answering that, but oh well.

 

To put it simply: God has no effect whatsoever on your knowledge or wisdom. Usually, he's a step back, if anything. Because people who believe in some sort of god tend to just dismiss anything they don't understand as work of god, and make no effort to learn more. Of course you're different, you managed to learn a lot. Your problem is that your belief in god has made you believe you already learned everything you could learn. One does not need to find god to learn more, and there is nothing one can only learn if he believes in god.

 

And this is you second mistake. Believing that there is a single truth. That's an understandable mistake, since only philophers tend to discover this isn't true. What's really a shame is that you believe you know what this truth is. To be so disillusioned... (ohmyohmyohmyohmyohmyohmyi'mjustmakingmyselfatargetforflameain'tI?)

 

The truth is, the world is more than one thing. It is simply too big to be just one thing. And it might be true to you that the world is screwed up, but you know what? To someone else, the truth is different. To some people, it might be just like you say, to some it might be slightly different than what you say and to some it might be the complete opposite. But one way or the other, whatever you believe is the truth, that's YOUR truth, so don't assume it goes for everyone. Because the truth is not absolute, and two things that contradict themselves may both be true.

 

Mistake number 3. Man, I really didn't plan to make this a running theme, but you make this too easy. No you did not watch the world on every level. And even if you did, watching is not enough to understand something. You need to live it. Were you ever a hobo? A CEO perhaps? You know that "watching the world on every level", implies you did so regarding every place and every culture right? Well, tell me about the polictical situation on brazil. Yes, that is relevant, because in brazil we talk about polictics casually. Even if you didn't follow the elections you should know what people were talking about the candidates if you were "watching that level of the world".

 

Now, the last thing I'll talk about. This isn't a mistake you commited, it is just something I want to give my opinion on.

 

Why should you bother, you ask? Well, that depends. To some people, it is "the goods outweigh the bads". To others, it's "I have nothing else to do", and to others yet the only thing stopping them from committing suicide is fear of death. And you know what, I used to ask myself that question too. "Why should I even bother?", I thought. But unlike most people, I didn't stop questioning that until I got a satisfying answer. And you know the answer I got? "Why shouldn't you?"

 

Seriously. I don't need much motivation, so when I started thinking about both sides of the question, I realized that there were about as much reasons to bother than to not bother. And contrary to what you might think, that didn't make me realize I should care about what happens. If anything, that made me realize that I didn't give a flying sh*t about anything that doesn't concern me. What's the point of worrying if you can fix the problem? What's the use of worrying if you can't? There are kids starving in Africa, but blaming myself for it won't make their situation any better. Once I can do anything about it, I will, but for now, I'll just focus on my studies and on having fun.

 

But if ignoring the evils of the world is not your style, then there's the old saying: "Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness". Remember Hurricane Fluttershy? What was the lesson? No matter how little you can actually contribute, every bit counts.

* sighs *

Yes i will make the same "mistake" as you, but i'll try to be brief, since this is partially off-topic.

 

* You say yourself that there are many truths, and yet you say that God has no effect on Wisdom or Knowledge.

Do you see that you are contradicting yourself there?

 

* The truth ....

There is a truth, an entirely uncompromizing ultimate truth.

However, due to the myriad of point of views on it, including a whole lot of misunderstanding, lies, and fears on examining other point of views (and science and politics suffer from that as well as religions), it do look like "different truths".

They aren't different, they are just pieces of the greater jigsaw puzzle that do show the truth.

 

* You should doublecheck the meaning of "disillusioned", i think you used it very wrong.

 

I do think i agree with most of the rest, though ...

____________________________

 

Right now, though, i'm more eager to bring this back on topic ...

 

Perhaps this way... :

It is obvious, that several bronies feel a kind of "awakening" similar to religous ones when they have "met God", an wants to spread the information about Friendship is Magic as if it is a gospel.

Well, who knows, God is said to "work in mysterious ways" after all.

The OP of this thread, however, seem to think that it is the amassed amount of symbolism and true scientific references that is present in the episodes, that may have given that effect, along with the massive amount of artwork.

That is my impression, at least, but i don't think it is that, because the symbolism seems too off too often, to me.

 

What would you think?

[SOHCAHTOA 51]

You say yourself that there are many truths, and yet you say that God has no effect on Wisdom or Knowledge.

Do you see that you are contradicting yourself there?

 

Actually, no. I don't just say whatever comes to mouth, I triple-check my posts before being sure I said what I wanted to say the best way I could. If there's a contradiction there, could you please point it out to me? Because I don't see it.

 

 

 

 

There is a truth, an entirely uncompromizing ultimate truth.

However, due to the myriad of point of views on it, including a whole lot of misunderstanding, lies, and fears on examining other point of views (and science and politics suffer from that as well as religions), it do look like "different truths".

They aren't different, they are just pieces of the greater jigsaw puzzle that do show the truth.

 

When I say there are multiple truths, I'm thinking on how everything is relative. One person might say "This food is bad", and the other "This food is good", both talking about the same thing, and both are right. Why? Because What they mean is "I don't like this food" and "I like this food", respectively, and taste is relative. Meanwhile, Two people might live completely different philosophies. One might decide to abandon all physical possesions, while the other might simple decide to live the luxuries of life. Are either of their philosophies wrong? No not really. Because everyone has the right to live their life however they want. I do admit that there's a great universal truth, but this truth does not acknowledge sapiency. There are just too many variables caused by humanity, because we don't follow our instincts nature never knows what we'll do next. The "greater jigsaw puzzle" is too big, you need to walk a few steps back to see it. And once you do you'll realize Earth is just a pale blue dot (anyone familiar with that Carl Sagan quote?), and that if you want to see the big picture, you won't even be able to see earth. The universal truth does not account for something that can have two mutually exclusive characteristics at the same time, and that's why we must remove earth from the equation. I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over. Sorry, I have an habit of doing that if I don't know how to finish what I'm saying. So I'll stop now.

 

 

 

You should doublecheck the meaning of "disillusioned", i think you used it very wrong.

 

Did I use it wrong, or did you simply thought I was using it wrong? Well, as far as I know, disillusioned means to willingly believe something that can be disproven. Can you tell me wheter I used it right or not?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Frankly, I believe that those symbols are there, and that someone intended to put them there. I just don't believe that they're the reason some people like the show so much. They're there for the same reasons there are masonic symbols in Wshington D.C: Someone in charge of making the show/building the city though about putting symbols everywhere, just because. Some of it, I believe was too circunstantial (like the double helix) but most of it made sense, to the point where, in my opinion, it's more likely that the symbol is there than that it's a coincidence, which brings us to the burden of proof. But let's not talk about that, since we're talking about opinions, not assertions.

 

And please, don't come saying "it's not a coincidence, it's just one guy believing random cr*p" (Tiina, I'm not talking about you, just skeptics in general. I don't think you'd say something so rude). It's not one guy, because about half of the people who posted here agree with him, and can too see it, and we would have seen it by ourselves if we just had as much knowledge about symbolism.

 

SasQ, sorry for the little take over of your thread. Regarding new symbols, that'll be a rather hard task. I mean, I don't know about the others, but I'm certainly no expert. Unless I see a Möbius Strip, a Void Cube or Menger sponge, it isn't very likely for me to notice anything that wouldn't normally be in a children's show. But I'll try looking for something. It'll be an excuse for rewatching all the episodes again in fact, the crystal empire, and crystal formation and structure come to mind. I think I'll study a little of this. Er...

 

Dangit, I never know how to finish. Well, I guess I'll leave it at that. Ciao.

[SasQ 1,376]

As a matter of fact I wasn't even talking with you, much less about you. Read it again. So yeah, it's not enough, "I say".

 

I see: you can put me amongst insane suicide cult leaders and other freaks, and it's OK, but when I'm not accepting it or just presenting counter-arguments, I'm "blatantly offensive". Hmm... The level of hypocrisy from your side have just surpassed beyond all recognition -,- And if any arguments in a discussion are offensive for you, then we simply cannot discuss any longer.

 

And yeah, I generally sound way more serious than I really am, but there is nothing I can do when people simply don't read what I say, I'm hardly responsible for that.

 

No. It's you only you who is responsible for everything what you say, because it's you who is saying it, not others. The weight of communicating precisely what you really think rests on your shoulders, not the readers, because they can base only on what they see there written, not on what was in your mind. If your message could be understood in any other way than what you wanted, then you've failed, and in such case don't try to blame others for it.

 

I'm not a native English speaker, but still I can see what you've written and for me it's not cool at all. Who cares what you've really got in mind? If it's not there in the text, it "never happened". And when something is there, don't try to use cheap excuses with "it's not what I meant" or "you didn't understood me correctly" or trying to blame others for what you did wrote. You don't have any control on what others might think, but you have perfect control on what you write.

 

What about assuming - wait, no. What about stating you know what I "and people like me" (people who don't agree with you 100%?)

 

No. People I've mentioned in my post. Two or three users who replied in this thread and expressed their objections. Again, anyone has a perfect right to disagree with me, I'm cool with it. But it's not a reason for mockery or calling names. Also, when someone disagrees, it's in good mood to at least tell me what exactly they disagree and why. Many people have certain objections which could be discussed. But yours were just general expression of disapproval but nothing particular enough to be disputable.

 

would say and think again and again.

 

QUOTE please. I don't even know what are you referring to.

 

But generally speaking, I'm far from saying what someone thinks. (Maybe I'm into symbology, but I'm not clairvoyant or mind reader.) I could refer only to what you (or others) have said, and that's what I did. You've stated quite clearly what you think about all that symbology stuff, so I didn't have to mind-read at all.

 

Not mentioning assigning various "traits" such as ignorance, stupidity and gullibility

 

Where did you get the stupidity from? o_O

 

I thought I explained very clearly what I mean by ignorance. As a matter of fact, I never call you ignorant, I was describing what these "traits" mean to me, for you to judge if your behavior compares with any of them (because I see some similarities with the attitude you present here). But let me explain them more:

 

Ignorance (as the very name indicates) is about ignoring some facts "by definition" and objecting something for the very sake of being in opposition. This is different from true skepticism, which is about verifying and questioning and only then rejecting something (or not), after in-depth analysis. For me, ignorance is no different from gullibility, because they both are about holding to some views/beliefs "just because", and rejecting everything what doesn't fit the picture "by definition", without checking.

 

Have you done my experiment yet? (I mean the one that was to compare the probability of finding occult symbols in several other shows with the probability of finding them in MLP:FIM.) Have you done any in-depth analysis of what I've presented before rejecting it? Or you're just rejecting it on the basis that it doesn't fit your picture? Be honest at least with yourself, if not with us here.

 

based on a post that offended YOU on a personal level and I didn't even write.

 

Mind-reading again? I didn't call anyone ignorant "based on a post that offended me" (oh, wait.. offended? so now you admit your post really was offensive? hmm...), but based on them rejecting what's there without enough in-depth analysis done before.

 

I'm not saying what you are to believe, I keep asking if you honestly believe everything you wrote really is there.

 

Are you actually reading my posts? Because it seems like if you were reading just selective fragments and answering to what you think it's there. I already wrote what I see there in the show. And when I say something, I always say it honestly, because why should I be dishonest at all? '_' Read again my post where I described the four options and analyzed each of them separately. Do I need to explain you what "personal opinions" and "speculative" mean? Or you just trying to catch me on admitting that I adhere to one of these options (the fourth one, I guess) to have another excuse for calling me insane or some other similar "intelligent" name?

 

It's not implying or commanding anything, it's a yes or no question.

 

A question I've answered already. But if you don't care to read but just want to see me through your own glasses, then I'm not going to play your game. Sorry, no troll-feeding this time.

 

And who "we"? You and Crowley's ghost?

 

ALIENS!!! <_< 

See? Mockery again. From what reason? And that's me who's offensive... Riiiight...  <_<

By "we" I meant all the people participating in this thread. Since you wrote what you wrote, and everyone with eyes can see it, I just concluded an objective fact, that we (=everyone participating in this thread) can see what you wrote. Me + other people here = "we".

 

OK, clinging to words -- checked. What's next? Are you going to split my words into single letters and nitpick them?

 

But out of curiosity, what exactly I disagree with?

 

Honestly? Now I have no clue and I'm totally lost. Now it seems that you just seek for an opportunity to quarrel. So please seek somewhere else, because here you'll find nothing edible.

 

It was a joke. You really, honestly, can't say that was a hype and a joke?

 

Am I look like laughing? '_'

And you really think that trolling people and then calling it a joke will make it funny? -,-

You proposed an experiment which you hadn't even performed, but you've drawn conclusion nevertheless about what I'll do. I proposed an experiment too. What about it? You'll draw conclusions from it without performing it either? Or maybe you don't need to perform it at all, because you already "know better"? (see the definition of ignorance again). And no, I'm not joking. I'm honest now.

 

I didn't - ... Wait. What? I mean, seriously, what? Did we suddenly jump into God debate along the way and I didn't the memo?

 

God debate? Where? I'm not really interested in participating in such a debate.

 

And here is a good moment to remind @@SOHCAHTOA and @: This is not a thread entitled "The God and how I've found it in Ponyville". You can always start a new thread somewhere else and discuss about religion there. Maybe I'll even participate in it then. But my symbolism thread was not supposed to be about any religion and beliefs.

 

And it also made me wonder as to what do you think assertion is anyway, since you made it sound as if personal guesses and speculations were that much different.

 

Yeah, especially here:

 

I prefer to wait for proofs (a confirmation from the producers, for example) until I change the status of my claims from mere guesses/speculations/personal opinions to (as you call it) huge assertions.

 

There are many other places where I emphasize this. Have you read them carefully? Or just fighting with a strawman of me you've made yourself?

 

You know, when you are talking to me, you can say whatever you like, be nice, be an ass, whisper or yell, I'm fine with that, but "mentioning" me

 

It's called quoting. Are you going to forbid me quoting your own words? Everyone can see what you've said, I don't need to "put words into your mouth" (which you accused me of), it's enough to quote what you've said yourself, even if it can make you ashamed or look bad. Are you willing to take responsibility of what you've said or blame other people for your words?

 

and things I didn't even say (what you think I would say)

 

What you did say is enough. And what I think you'd say is, again, only my guess and personal opinion, which can be wrong, and I thought it's obvious from the context. But, again, I might be wrong.

 

in very offensive manner throughout your posts when talking to someone else is not cool.

 

I'd like to know why anyone else doesn't seem to share your view of me being "blatantly offensive"? I hadn't see anyone else mentioning that beside you. Maybe other people know better what is a discussion, what are arguments, and that argument is not an offense, and offense or calling names is not an argument at all?

 

To everyone reading this: Has anyone of you noticed that I'm "blatantly offensive"? Raise your hoofs... Anyone?

 

Don't do that.

 

Don't tell me what should I do. I'm a free person. If you don't like something I say, you can just go talk with someone else. This is a public forum, you don't need to participate in a thread you don't like, no one forces you. If you think that symbology is all about seeing bad omens everywhere or "making things up", then you'll not find here anything fitting your views, but you'll only make yourself (or other people) angry. What do we need that for?

 

You are being mocked only because you misread posts and base way too much on what you didn't read.

 

It's funny because I could say the same about you. So maybe it's time for other people to judge us? Though I suspect it won't help much because you'll probably not see the beam in your own eye, seeing the level of hypocrisy you've presented so far... :-/

 

OK, to sum this all up:

 

I came here to discuss, not to quarrel on such a low level. I did it so far only from hoping that it will change anything. I tried to resolve your doubts, I think that I've already said enough to understand my point, so I don't have anything more for you to add. And since your only interest seems to be in quarrels (which is quite apparent from what drives your posts the most: very few about the main topic, no particular detailed questions at all, but lots and lots of mockery and argumentum ad personam), I'm not going to answer any more of your posts. You had your chances for discussion. Oh, and you don't need to worry any more that I'll be referring to your name or quoting you in the future. This is the last time I do that.

 

And now please don't disturb any more and let me talk in peace with others who are interested in the main subject of this thread (no matter if they agree with me or not, but if they can ask reasonable questions and state arguments, I'm pleased to discuss with them).

Edited January 25, 2013 by SasQ

[Jessper 735]

 

I see: you can put me amongst insane suicide cult leaders and other freaks, and it's OK

Oh for fucks sake, I've said seeing patterns is what made humanity into what it is now, and that people who saw way to many patterns often ended up going insane, and I didn't even say it in dialogue with you. That does not equal "Hey SasQ, you're batshit crazy!".

 

 

No. It's you only you who is responsible for everything what you say, because it's you who is saying it, not others.

I've said I'm not responsible for you not reading my post. And I guess it applies again now, eh?

 

 

so now you admit your post really was offensive?

 

"You got offended by something I didn't even say."

"AHA! So you admit you were being offensive!"

 

You really don't see any flaw there. Nothing wrong. Just a standard conclusion. Hmm?

 

 

It's called quoting.

No, it's called mentioning someone." @@SasQ and people like him would always say that Illuminati rule the world and Elvis is alive on the moon... Yeah, he really does, it's interesting, right?" . See? Different. And irritating, almost straight lie too. So just don't do - It's very simple. You won't do that, I won't complain about it, it's very symbiotic union.

 

So to sum it all up - Read posts. When you do, read them as a whole, because sometimes, it makes less sense when you cut every sentence out of context. Don't mention names and then go on about "Yeah, they think, they say, they are...", and don't accuse people of what you keep doing, and don't keep acting as if you were arguing religious ideas, when you are trying to present fun speculation, it's just awkward. Did you even notice I didn't say I disagree with anything? I have my doubts.

[Freewave 1,145]

I'm sorry but when does SasQ have to read every text wall that people who decided to reply to his topic? He created a thread and some parallels and conclusions. While people should comment and feel free to make points I've seen several people jump in this thread to take it off-target and make it about religion (without any specific relgious symbolism mind you) or to make this discussion about their conclusions and opinions. To make this thread about them and their views.

 

Honestly I don't see the point in doing that or being rather rude when SasQ hasn't jumped through your hoops and read all your comments to satisfy your needs. This is supposed to be a discussion and now its become an ongoing petty quarrel because of that. That's dumb. if you don't like his conclusions or this thread there's always other threads to read or you can start your own if you have anything to truly ADD. Use the off-switch at this point.

[SOHCAHTOA 51]

I am really sorry about what I've done. Mostly it was just answering someone, but I should've known better than to do that. I'd delete my posts if I knew how.

 

 

About the point of the thread, I don't think there's anything else we could find that SasQ hasn't pointed out. I mean, dude, you study this kind of thing. I doubt there's anyone on this forum who could notice everything you noticed here, let alone anything you missed.

 

For now, all we can do is wait for new episodes to see if we can find any new symbols.

 

And if I may ask, since I'm already writing something you're most likely to read anyway, have you done any progress with that pony alphabeth thing, SasQ? Have you given up? Or are you awaiting for those glyphs to be used again? I found it really interesting, specially when you pointed out that if it worked how you said it, Dark Magic would be pronounced "Mana".

 

Wait... what if we combined the searching for alphabeth with the searching for symbols thing? I mean, in the other thread, someone mentioned how the illustration of NightMare Moon in the book (A moon in a purple sky, with one star in each corner of the image) would translate to "dark heaven". What if there are stances like those in the show where simple symbols, like stars and moons and suns appeared, and people dismissed it as decorations? What if they actually meant something? If the symbols fit with the ten glyphs you mentioned then there might be some meaning behind it!

 

EDIT: Currently, I am not able to watch episodes of MLP:FIM. But as soon as I am capable of rewatching the show, I'll start looking into this!

Edited January 26, 2013 by SOHCAHTOA

[SasQ 1,376]

I always thought that magic and science were more interrelated in the real world than in anything else.

 

They were more interrelated in the past. Ever heard about Alchemy? This knowledge came to Europe from Ancient Greece, and there from Ancient Egypt. The name says it all: "al-khemet" = "of Khemet" in Arabic. That's how they called Egypt back then. This name also has a meaning: "KH.M" (read "khem") root in Ancient Egyptian means "knowledge" (related to Khokmeh in Hebrew), and "KH.M.T" (read "khemetu") meant "the place of knowledge". That's because Ancient Egypt was the source of this knowledge and the scientific capitol of the ancient world at these times. (Do you know where Alexandria is located? There was the hugest library in the world, before it has been burned by Roman Christians).

 

Modern scientists will tell you that Alchemy was some occult pre-scientific mumbo-jumbo with no sense at all (the same they say about astrology). But it wasn't. As Edward Elric from "Full Metal Alchemist" (another cartoon with shitload of symbolism and hidden knowledge ;-J ) would describe it:

 

"Alchemy: The science of understanding the structure of matter, breaking it down, then reconstructing it as something else. It can even make gold from lead. But alchemy is a science, so it must follow the natural laws: To create, something of equal value must be lost. This is the principle of Equivalent Exchange."

 

Can modern chemists turn lead into gold? No. They can only interchange elements in compounds, transforming one molecules into another, but they cannot transform one element into another. This requires a much deeper level of understanding matter. Particle physicists would say that they can transform elements, because they can break naturally radioactive (that is, weakly-bonded) nuclei of atoms which turns one elements into others. But they can hardly do it with any element and in any direction. For this requires nuclear fusion which only stars can do (and ancient Alchemists who learned it from Nature supposedly could do that too).

 

Modern scientists will tell you that it's not efficient to turn lead into gold, because nuclear fusion requires lots of energy (but they nevertheless build all these Tokamaks and try to produce energy from controlled nuclear fusion -- how "coherent"! ;-P ). But it requires such amounts of energy only when you don't know how to do it other ways.

 

Ancient Alchemists knew about the wave structure of matter and knew its resonant properties, so they could use resonance to concentrate energy and shift the vibrational frequencies of atoms to transmute them into other elements. There were no particle accelerators or some other hi-tech rocket science at these times, but nevertheless they could somehow manage to make this "Magic".

 

It's similar to Ed Leedskalnin and his Coral Castle mentioned here by @@dekutree64: he also didn't need any advanced machinery to build that castle from huge heavy stones. It were enough for him to know and understand the secrets of Nature. For other people this all might seem magical, but it's because they don't know how he did it.

 

You're right, any sufficiently advanced piece of technology can be considered magic to more "primitive" beings.

 

Once upon a time there was a weird guy called John Napier. He was a mathematician, very deeply interested in ancient knowledge and scriptures, and he invented logarithms. He used his invention to transmute raising to powers and extracting roots into simpler multiplication and division, and these in turn he could transmute into simpler addition and subtraction, because he knew from ancient wisemen how numbers really work. By doing these "mathemagical tricks" he's been confusing and amazing other contemporary mathematicians who thought that he's doing some Black Magic and that he has a pact with the devil (and his pet black cock rooster, which he always carried on his arm as pirate's parrot didn't helped him with that image ;-) ).

 

If you go back in time with a laptop with internet and show it to someone from the 18th century, they'd no doubt find it extremely fascinating.

 

They surely would do! ;-) But only until their batteries would go down ;-D Then you're screwed, unless you know how to reproduce a device which could make enough electricity ;-) And what Internet? This network didn't exist yet at these times ;-) This is exactly the problem Mr Freeman had in this short video:

 

Very thought-provoking!

 

Unicorn magic I presume are brought from scrolls, which isn't just derived from somepony's lower gut or "magical chamber". It's obviously just as much math as it is somepony's magical ability. Like figuring out how a plane would lift off and stay in the air for however long it's supposed to, what's the math behind a teleportation spell?

 

Yes of course. And Twilight already described it that way:

 

"Magic is something you study and practice. It only happens when you decide to do it, and it's meant to make something specific that you choose to happen, happen."

 

Similarly, there's a lot of physics involved with a fighter jet breaking the sound barrier. In this case you must hit speeds greater than Mach 1...

 

 

That being said, not even pegasus ponies are limited. With flying being a critical part of their lives, what kind of physics do they need to conquer to stay safe in the air?

 

Yes. But they could also learn it from experience and exercises, intuitively, without understanding what they do. As in our world, many engineers just use the formulas in a plug-and-chug approach, without understanding what these formulas really mean and where they came from. People are doing advanced calculations with integrals and differentials, but rarely understand the basics of number system and its fractal properties nor their geometrical origins.

 

Also there are talented sportsmen whose brains could do advanced multi-level calculations of trajectories and physical simulations for the motions of their bodies in their heads without them knowing & understanding how this process really goes on. Or artists (like painters or musicians) who use proportions and symmetries and geometric laws of harmony without being aware of it.

 

So it's not always needed to know how something work to just use it (as many Unicorns do with their daily Magic). But it's of course worth to know how it all works to understand it better and make better use of it.

 

For athletes like the Wonderbolts, they no doubt need to study up on concepts like the sound barrier.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Rainbow Dash breaks just sound barrier or something more: a light speed barrier! :-) Because when she does it, a huge burst of colors appears. One could supposedly see a similar effect when reaching the light speed barrier, because different frequencies (colors) of light waves have different speeds of propagation, and they disperse into rainbows. So when you approach the light speed limit, you'd probably see these colors appearing one by one in the world surrounding you. But I guess this effect would be visible only by the one who breaks the barrier, not by others, unless some boom wavefront would form in that case (which is quite plausible too). Of course to make it happen, Rainbow Dash would have to be smarter than the smart-ass scientists in our world ;-) (unless it's just his "special talent" which she can do without knowing how it works).

 

And no, breaking the speed of light doesn't mean breaking causality or time traveling, contrary to what modern scientists will tell you. This is a common error (such common that I'm near to believing they're giving us this shit on purpose to misguide us, or they're misguided themselves). For to time-travel, one would need to move with "faster-than-infinite" speed (which is absurd), not just the speed of light. It's really obvious from the Minkowski spacetime diagram and I wonder why are they interpreting these diagrams erroneously -- aren't they supposed to understand what they use after all? :-P I once started to write an article about that, but haven't finished it. Maybe it's about time to finish it and share with you? ;-)

 

You need to travel faster than 344 meters per second, but even that's moot - depending on the temperature your surrounding environment is, you'll either have to fly faster (if it's a colder environment) or slower (if needed - if it's a warmer environment).

 

Bravo to you for knowing that! I was very disappointed when Felix Baumgartner jumped from the stratosphere and he was aimed to break a record by breaking the speed of sound in person, without use of any vehicle. They were telling me from the TV what's the required speed for him to break, and I saw that they're wrong because the air has different properties out there in higher strata of atmosphere and the speed of sound will also be different there than here on the Earth's surface.

 

Mathematics, it's not just something for scientists.

 

Of course not! :-) It's the Intergalactic Universal Language of Nature ;-)

And it also doesn't have to be just about numbers. It's also geometry (pictures! ;-) ) and other fun stuff.

It's rather a tool for careful and precise thinking. That's why I like it so much :-)

 

 

@@SOHCAHTOA and @@dekutree64: I'll answer your posts next time to not mix things. (Unfortunately I cannot post several separate posts in a row because this forum's software is automatically merging them together no matter if I like it to be that way or not ;-P ). Stay tuned, I don't ignore you, I just don't have enough time for posting ;-) But the time will come ultimately ;-)

Edited February 2, 2013 by SasQ

[Jack Durango 119]

Ooh, yeah, the temper of the internet's users stems from miscommunication and a constant struggle of wit, intellect, and keeping up appearances. All of those caught in the roiling, boiling conflict that has taken place throughout the thread, I say this: Do the one thing we seem incapable of doing, and say nothing at all. Ours is a poisoned people.

 

SasQ, another brilliant observation and a hard line drawn on what you're trying to SAY, not what you're trying to PROVE. I really am interested in the alchemy section you talked about. Explore more of that, if you would. I find it easier when someone else who better understands the subject, such as yourself, explains it in concise yet summarized terms.

[WildCard 1,037]

I find this really fascinating, but there is one thought in my mind right now:

Do the other people responsible for the show know all that stuff and hidden meanings, or was it just the vision of Lauren Faust?

I am really concerned that all the implications and hidden background messages may be overseen/get lost over the seasons, so that the original vision behind the show gets lost

[SasQ 1,376]

I find this really fascinating, but there is one thought in my mind right now:

 

Do the other people responsible for the show know all that stuff and hidden meanings, or was it just the vision of Lauren Faust?

 

Excellent question and very good timing, because I've just found new supporting evidence.

 

Many people ask me about that in this thread. Some of them have doubts that these symbols are really there and they say I'm just "seeing what I want to see" or "making them up". This is certainly not the case with the Science references and math formulae because one cannot just mix up a bunch of random symbols and end up with mathematically accurate formulae from Special Relativity. But what about esoteric symbolism and allusions to ancient mythology and legends? Are there really there? If yes, are they there on purpose?

 

I was wondering about these questions myself too, this was nagging me, so I started to look for the answers.

I've found contact addresses to many people from the crew and sent messages to them with my questions; including Lauren Faust and Amy Keating Rogers. No responses so far, but this didn't stop me. I started to search the Net for the interviews with people responsible for the show, to find about their views and way of thinking, and what I've found has overgrown my expectations! :-> The answers for the above questions seem to be YES and YES! :-P But let's do that by turns...

 

First, there is an interview made by Mike Bernstein (FinalDraft) from the Eferfree Network with Lauren Faust, where she admits that she borrowed many ideas from Ancient Greek and other European mythologies, and other fantasy realms, like "The Lord of the Rings", "The Chronicles of Narnia" or "The Wizard of Oz". See this video recording from that interview, from around 18:33:

 

 

See also 38:06 where she was asked about the source of Celestia and Luna and solar/lunar symbolics. After her answer, Mike asks her about Joseph Campbell's book "The Power of Myth". We can find more on this on MLP Wiki:

 

"My Little Pony Friendship is Magic incorporates elements of classic fantasy, fairy tales, and mythology. Among the works mentioned by Lauren Faust as inspiration are Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, The Wizard of Oz, The Lord of the Rings, and The Chronicles of Narnia. Faust saw the inclusion of European and Greek mythologies as obvious, since the characters, unicorns and pegasi, themselves draw from mythology."

 

Next part of the puzzle are of course the story writers. Here's the interview with Mitch Larson, Cindy Morrow, Meghan McCarthy and Amy Keating Rogers:

 

http://events.everfree.net/equestria-la-2012-show-writers-panel-sunday/

 

Listen carefully what Cindy says when Mike asked her about the source for one of the villains (Ahuizotl, the one Daring Do is fighting with, which is taken from Mayan mythology), and she answers that it was Lauren who've chosen it, because she wanted it to have some real existence. And I suspect she refers to something which we can find more about on MLP Wiki -- there's a text which says that:

 

"Lauren Faust and Rob Renzetti encouraged the writers to infuse mythology into the series."

 

That is, the story writers are being instructed by head story editors to incorporate certain symbols and references into the show. And Mike confirms that information in the interview above, around 27:43. This time I'll quote, because it seems to be important:

 

"It's been interesting and {...} I talked about that with Lauren yesterday that she very intentionally intended to have a lot of these mythological characters in the episodes."

 

So mythology references are quite confirmed, and intentional use of them in the show is also confirmed, but just at a general level. Unfortunately it's not a confirmation of the particular symbols I've found, yet. Just a hint that what we dealing here is in fact intentional and now I see it's deeper than I though at the beginning. For a sample of it, just look how many references and allusions are there listed on MLP Wiki, every one confirmed! Many of them I found too, but I wasn't sure about (now I am), but still there are lots of them which I didn't caught. Not because I don't know them, but because I wasn't looking for them there! So again this is a confirmation that we can see only what we're looking for and what we understand. Otherwise these things could be missed even if they're at plain sight.

 

Also, Rob Renzetti, who co-worked with Lauren on the main part of the pitch bible with all main characters, story elements and directions for the story writers, and who was a head story editor, is currently working on the show "Gravity Falls" for Disney Channel. And this show is just a galloping shitload of occult symbolism and hidden codes! And not just some easy stuff like in MLP:FIM, but a lot more multi-level, with more sophisticated cryptography, requiring knowledge from many domains to decode it: from Alchemy and occult, through Illuminati symbolism, up to advanced Mathematics and Physics. Here's an example of one of these hidden messages from "Gravity Falls" (labels not mine, I could do better than that, but it's not a place for this):

 

I am really concerned that all the implications and hidden background messages may be overseen/get lost over the seasons, so that the original vision behind the show gets lost

 

Exactly! How many kids you know who are adept in cryptography, know alchemical symbols and understand geometrical matrix transformations from linear algebra? If these messages are not targeted to little children, then who? Who would have enough knowledge to crack all these codes? I wish I could know... But now I see we're definitely dealing with something much deeper than I suspected at the beginning.

 

The only thing what bothers me is why nopony mentioned here these sources so far? I mean, dudes, it's from Everfree Network and MLP Wiki anyway! :-P You're bronies & pegasisters, you're supposed to know all these long ago, amiright? ;-J

Edited February 3, 2013 by SasQ

[SasQ 1,376]

----------
Is this topic have lost your interest? I don't see any more comments / questions / personal observations.
 
I'd like to post some new stuff here, but it'll be merged with my previous post and I don't know if you'll be noticed about it, so I hoped someone will post something here that I could continue in a separate post. {Edit: Oh! It hasn't merged this time! How strange :-P This forum's software is getting more and more unpredictable...} So for now, I'll just answer one little question:
 

And so, the yin/yang compared to the sisters pushing the sun and the moon: The heart of light is dark, and the heart of dark is light. However, Celestia(light) pushes the Sun .... no darkness there, while Luna(dark) pushes the moon ... ok, there is some light there, but not always, and not much compared to the sun .... Essentially, the pic on Celestia and Luna pushing the Sun and the Moon looks very similar to the yin/yang symbol, but if one understands the symbolism, the pictures are very different indeed.

 

Yes, I know about that subtle meaning of these dots. Don't know if the person who made this graphics in MLP knew about it. But what you wrote is true, and it really is reflected in the show:

Notice that Celestia can do some Dark Magic too. We saw that in the "Crystal Empire", when Celestia is showing Twilight that crystals can be charged with positive or negative energy as well. And she also took control over the Moon after she has banished Luna to the Moon. So when needed, she can use Dark Magic and control the night. Luna probably can do some Bright Magic too.

Also, sometimes when Bright Magic is used, consequences are not so good. For example, when you use love spell on a rag doll or your friends and it makes some unexpected troubles ;-)

This matches with these dots in the Yin-Yang symbol: There's always a bit of Dark Magic in Bright Magic, and a bit of Bright Magic in Dark Magic.

----------

To liven up this thread a bit, maybe you'll try to find some symbols & references yourself?
I'll give you some hints so you can try this game yourself:

There are several places where the Trinity symbol appears, in two different forms. One of them is just in the opening sequence of the very first episode. And it is the more interesting one, since it is connected with Masonic tracing boards which are a star map to find their Blazing Star of the Ancestors ;-) The same star map which is hidden in the architecture of many places over the whole Earth, such as Washington DC or Vatican ;-) It is also related to the Sun-Moon symbolism.

The other one is similar to the Yin-Yang, but with additional third component.

Also there are some references to Tarot major arcana cards. Look up for The Magician in "Magic Duel" for example ;-)

Can you spot it yourself? :->

I'll give you some time, and if you don't find it, I'll describe it later in more detail.

This site may help you in recognizing these symbols: http://symbols.net/
Also reading about Tarot cards and their symbolic meanings can help you to master these skills and improve your understanding of archetypal meanings of many symbols.

Edited February 11, 2013 by SasQ

[dekutree64 713]

Is this topic have lost your interest? I don't see any more comments / questions / personal observations.

Nope, I'm still loving every word of it. I just don't have much to add that's actually pony-related... which is probably the case with everyone else too. If you've got more, keep posting

 

I'm more interested in the physics stuff I talked about before, so my knowledge of symbolism is more coincidental. But your previous post touching on alchemy is definitely intriguing... I was under the impression that nothing much ever came of the alchemists. Do you know if anyone ever did succeed in transmuting elements in a controlled way? I've read about a couple possible transmutations in recent times, one on Blaze Labs turning carbon into iron, and one somewhere else that I can't find at the moment, which if I recall, involved a sharp pointed cathode, which would produce hydrogen. But still nothing of practical use.

 

There's also that guy John Hutchison, who has apparently been able to resonate atoms/molecules and weaken their bonds to eachother, but no effect on the nucleus (although his technique is probably similar to how some of the ancient megalithic structures were done, where the rocks are sort of melted together to eliminate gaps).

 

Also there are some references to Tarot major arcana cards. Look up for The Magician in "Magic Duel" for example ;-)

Can you spot it yourself? :->

Ah, so that's what Twilight's infinity refers to I thought it seemed a bit odd to make such a big deal out of moving animals in that shape if it was just randomly chosen. I do still wonder how much of the symbolism is actually meant to tie together, and how much is just "this looks cool and is mythology related". But that, as a way of stating that Twilight is the greatest magician of her age, seems very likely what was intended.

 

Thanks for the link to that symbols site... looks like I can find some good new leads on stuff to study through there.

[Tiina Brown 67]

I was waiting for you to respond to my post, and while doing that, i saw you burying yourself in symbolisms that is there, isn't quite there, and even isn't there.

 

 

It is understandable, yet ... problematic.

 

Well, i pointed out the difference between YinYang and the painting of the sisters, and you just say "but it is right in the show".

That is ignoring the fact that you were wrong, even partially, about the paining as a symbol .... but noone wants to be forced to admit that they are wrong, even partially.

 

I have no idea how to continue from thereon.

I might just leave this thread.

[SasQ 1,376]

I was waiting for you to respond to my post, and while doing that, i saw you burying yourself in symbolisms that is there, isn't quite there, and even isn't there.

 

You are starting to talk like the guy who tried to involve me into quarrels recently in this thread. So if you think that something I've found isn't really there, please point it out directly and describe in more detail why do you think isn't there. Your statement here is too general so I cannot discuss with it. I see many people here disagreeing with what I write, but not many of them present any counter-arguments beyond saying something in the lines of "because I say so" or "because I don't like that". If you really want to discuss, and not just demonstrate your disagreement, please be more specific with your critique.

 

Well, i pointed out the difference between YinYang and the painting of the sisters, and you just say "but it is right in the show".

Well, because it is. I said that because I already had a confirmation from one of the writers. But I needed to wait for permission to quote her message here. Now, when I'm allowed, I'm hereby doing it. Below is what Amy Keating Rogers replied to my questions about these symbols (I've sent her a link to this thread so she was able to get acquainted with it):

 

Amy:

Lauren absolutely encouraged us to put mythology into MLP: FiM and I know that she called upon lots of mythology when she was creating the show.

 

And here she addresses your doubts about the Yin/Yang symbolism too:

 

Amy:

The Celestia/Luna emblem reflecting the Yin/Yang symbol seems rather purposeful since there is the connection between light and dark.

 

She speaks about the very emblem I pasted in my first post, side-by-side with the Yin/Yang.

 

As I've said, I see too that this symbolism is used there. And "being wrong" you're ascribing me because of that little mismatch of Sun/Moon symbols with the actual Yin/Yang symbol's dot colors is not me being wrong, if we're talking about it, but the artist who created that emblem. In the line of your thought, you could blame me for even bigger mismatch of colors: the original Yin/Yang uses black/white, and the emblem from the show uses blue/yellow. Is this also my fault? o.O

 

The connection of the Yin/Yang symbolism with the Sun/Moon, Celestia/Luna, Bright/Dark Magic, and their usage in the show, is pretty obvious (for me at least), because I see it in the wider context and I see how it all connects, even if there are some small details which doesn't match, because nobody is perfect and I guess not every person working on the animation knows what was the original idea of the writers to use some particular symbol with all its deeper meanings and connections to other symbols used.

 

And it works also the other way around: storyboard artists or animators or background artists often put some symbols or easter eggs which they feel is right and match the original idea. Here's how Amy describes this process and what she answers about these images in the background, such as those scientific posters or mathematical formulae:

 

Amy:

As for the images in the background, those look like things added by the storyboard artist or the background artist.

 

The fact is we wrote this show for girls and the moms that watch with them. So the writers wrote on different levels to amuse these two demographics. We also put in these things to amuse ourselves! I’m sure the artists did this as well putting in Easter eggs to amuse the adult viewer (and themselves) as well.

 

There's one more factor in this equation which can be involved into putting these symbols there (if not the most important one): the head story editors, which in this case was Lauren Faust and Rob Renzetti (this other guy seems to be deep into occult symbolism, as I pointed out from his new work on "Gravity Falls"). The writers for the particular episodes are often directed and corrected afterwards by the head editors, and they can be the ones wwo make sure these symbols will be there, even if the particular writers didn't put them there. They could also encourage the storyboard artists or give them some directives which symbols or references should they put there.

 

That is ignoring the fact that you were wrong, even partially, about the paining as a symbol .... but noone wants to be forced to admit that they are wrong, even partially.

Why do you insist on me to admit an error which is not mine? It's the artist who apparently tried to use the Yin/Yang symbolism and failed to notice that he confused these little dots. But is it really that much important? It's the idea he wanted to show that is important here, and this idea is supported by a ton of other related symbols and meanings in the show, so why are you trying to ignore the elephant in the room and just pick on the little ant?

 

I really cannot understand why some people here are so much in need of proving me wrong, especially that I'm not in a position for proving myself right so much. I say from the very beginning, that these are just my findings and personal opinions, and I can be wrong (but perhaps not totally wrong though).

 

And if you still want to be a nay-sayer, after at least one of the writers so far confirming that the use of the Yin/Yang and related symbolism is rather purposeful in this show, and confirming the connections I mentioned above, then I cannot help you any more, and I don't know what else could I do to convince you.

 

But if you really need something to pick on, this one is still pretty much unconfirmed: the connection of the Elements of Harmony with the Greek Elements and Platonic Solids. Here's what Amy wrote about that:

 

Amy:

I’m not sure on the Elements of Harmony. Lauren is a very smart woman, so she may have had this connection on purpose, but I never spoke with her about it.

 

So I still wait for any answer from Lauren. If all of this is really so much moot for you, why don't you help me and ask the writers yourself instead of just criticizing me? I describe what I see, and anyone can verify it. You don't need to wait for me until I get any answer from the writers myself.

 

I have no idea how to continue from thereon.

Me neither. I didn't start this thread to defend my views, but to share them with you. If that what I have shown to this point is not convincing enough for you, then there's probably nothing else in this Universe which would.

 

I might just leave this thread.

Well, do what you feel is right for you. If what I wrote doesn't resonate with you, you don't need to read this post, especially if it collides with your views somehow (which could be seen from your reactions -- if my findings weren't touching some string inside of your soul, you wouldn't feel so much urge to prove me wrong).

 

OK, now it's @@dekutree64's turn to be answered. I'll try to answer him tomorrow, because this one answer could need more effort from my side to describe it well. And I still hesitate what should I write, because it will probably require me to go somewhat off-topic, since the stuff I'd like to describe in my answer is not so much related to ponies. But I'll try to make it still relevant enough.

Edited February 19, 2013 by SasQ

[dekutree64 713]

Wow, thank you Amy for your inside insights! So that pretty much confirms most of them were done knowingly, although not necessarily according to a master plan.

OK, now it's @@dekutree64's turn to be answered. I'll try to answer him tomorrow, because this one answer could need more effort from my side to describe it well. And I still hesitate what should I write, because it will probably require me to go somewhat off-topic, since the stuff I'd like to describe in my answer is not so much related to ponies. But I'll try to make it still relevant enough.

That's my own fault for veering off topic in the first place. Heck, you don't have to respond to any of my ramblings if you don't want to. But hopefully anything you write will be interesting to the readers of this thread at least, and not derail the pony discussion too badly.

 

But back on-topic, there is one glaring point in the finale episode to ponder... when Twilight's cutie mark shines in her eyes, and when she descends after the transformation, the mark has a perfect hexagon of 6 small stars around it, instead of 5 like in the mark on her flank... which I always took to represent the other 5 elements of friendship, surrounding the element of magic. Someone on the memebase site noticed this too, and even an interesting connection with the overhead shot of the elements zapping her into that astral plane place... although that one might have been specifically avoiding looking like a pentagram. But I wonder if the altered mark is foreshadowing some further elaboration on what Starswirl's spell was meant to do, or just an animation error of some sort?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/501/379/9a6.png

http://cheezburger.com/7073806592

Edited February 19, 2013 by dekutree64

[Tiina Brown 67]

* Claiming to see things in a wider context might mean nothing, because i can easily claim to see things in an even wider context than that.

* Encouraged to put in mythological references? It was already obvious that there were a lot of mythological references, the only difference is that we now know that they were encouraged to add them.

* Often, the yin and yang is noted to be at odds with eachothers. Celestia and Luna is NOT, they are instead in harmony with eachothers on a very different plane.

To say that they are similar to yin/yang may be correct, but they are not (like) the traditional Yin/yang.

One may say that the symbolism is very much toyed with in that case, perhaps that is fully on purpose.

 

You may have brought it up, but i'll say it anyway: That the "Sun and Moon" is two sisters ... i think it is Celtic Myth it could be referring to, since in other myths, the sun often is male.

By the way, i assume that imagery is far closer to describing the sisters, than Yin/Yang.

 

There is also one thing that disturbs me, and it may contribute to the annoyance ....

You keep saying that you are just describing what you see.

.... But, to me, that is not entirely true ...

It is mostly obvious when you compare the picture of Celestia rising both Sun and Moon, and comparing it to Freemason imagery.

Why?

Ok, i may be wrong, do correct me then, but from what you wrote around it, and decribed the two pictures, it sounded like the sun and moon balance MUST be taken from the freemason imagery.

I dare say that balance is far older than than the freemasons, and it is also easily re-invented by people that haven't even heard or seen any of this age-old imagery.

 

Besides, i have pointed out the flaw in comparing the mosaic-window on the Mane 6, with the Sephira in the Gnostic Tree of life/Adam.

However, you just said they of course couldn't do the actual one ....

Well, they had no reason to do so, either, because it would not be interesting in the show.

Ok, if they add further characters to that window, then it might get there, but right now ... that comparison is off.

At most, it is what i suggested about the yin/yang thing:

They are toying with the idea, nothing esle.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Tiina Brown

[VelvetDivan 96]

Very interesting thread.  Up 'til now I've only seen the show in low-def on Youtube, so details don't exactly jump out at me.  The Luna/Celestia yin-yang comparison is inevitable, and I love how they chase one another, echoing the apparent path of sun and moon across the sky.

 

I've always thought it was interesting that the elements of harmony were discovered as stone spheres, pulverized, then 'coalesced' into their present forms.  Were the spheres a dormant stage?  Did the elements used to look as they do now?  It smacks of The Fifth Element, another story that used earth, fire, wind, and water...though they substituted a cute girl for plasma (and I'm not saying there weren't similarities between the two!) to 'save the world.'  

 

If we operate under the assumption that each of the mane 6 embody one of those classic elements as well as a trait, to me it foreshadows future power granted by the elements, and perhaps some planet-wide responsibility.  Movie material?  Some of the links are obvious, true:  AJ is earth, Twilight is the ether/spark/magic.  I'd suggest Rainbow Dash for plasma, given her affinity for lightning.  Fluttershy would be the remaining obvious choice for wind.  Pinkie Pie would have to be fire, of the remaining two, though the color doesn't work.  She's nigh-unquenchable.  (You could easily make arguments to swap Dashie and Pinkie.)  Rarity as water makes sense, in that water is life-giving, cleansing, placid when undisturbed and a raging tempest otherwise.

 

It's all fun to think about and the glimpses into encoded information in past works, whether they're ancient paintings or other recent TV shows have been fascinating.  Getting so worked up about it seems silly though.  What's provable is provable, and we can only hypothesize about the rest and present what we feel is supporting information, yes?  Anyone who says 'you're wrong' without evidence to counter yours doesn't deserve a response.

 

Has anyone examined scenes of Zecora's cottage for mythological symbols, African or otherwise?  I wouldn't be surprised if the curio/magic shop from S3E5 contained some interesting imagery.