AJ and RD elements...

[Urkelbot 63]

I know that this may be nitpicky, or irrelevant, but I've been a little bit perturbed about the elements of harmony. Specifically Applejack (Honesty) and rainbow Dash (loyalty)

 

They are 2 of my favorite Ponies, and they do bear similarities, however, watching the series, I've found time and again, that their elements seems to correspond more, not with themselves, but with one another.  

 

RainBow Dash seems to always be telling it like it is, without really worrying if she may be hurting somepony else's feelings. That seems to me, to count more for blunt honesty than loyalty. While AJ seems more steadfast in helping her friends no matter what. 

 

Also, (I know that this is to be Ironic in the writing, but) AJ always seems to be the one who has to lie. Like in Party of one, they make her Tell Pinkie that there is nothing going on inside the barn. That seems to me, more like something to be left to a loyal friend, than an honest friend.

 

I dunno, I'm sure I'm overanalyzing a kids show.... let me know what you think

[Mint_Melody 91]

It's a good point, I've noticed it too. Their elements seem difficult to portray if you ask me. I guess it's because showing these two things in every day life are subtle. When I give something to you, you notice, when I do something silly to make you laugh, that stands out, but I don't no one expects their friends to stab them in the back or lie to them. Being honest or loyal rarely stands out unless it's done to an extreme. So I think the fact that the representation of their elements in every day life is so subtle, makes them easy to mix up.

 

Besides, honesty and loyalty are pretty similar when you think about it. Loyalty has a lot to do with someone's integrity. If your friends with someone and go behind their back spreading cruel rumors, people aren't going to think you're a very honest person. So if you're loyal, you by default have one of the traits that make up an honest person. You don't have to be generous to have integrity, you don't even have to be exceptionally kind, none of those things make you particularly honest, as opposed to not telling lies and being true to your friends.

 

So yeah, they defiantly over lap imo. 

[Hypereddie 56]

It seems like in the beginning, Applejack was suppose to be the bearer of Loyalty and Rainbow Dash the bearer of Honesty, but then got changed later on.

 

However, I do see OP's point, but there are plenty of examples that would say the opposite.

[Nayruthepegasister 118]

Well in a way, loyalty and honesty affect each other. In order to be loyal to someone, you have to be truthful in order to gain their trust. At the same time, by being honest, you become more loyal to your friends. So you really can't have one without the other due to their close relationship with each other. 

[SparklingSquirrels 21,332]

I agree that honesty and loyalty are similar. However, I like to think that the elements do more than just display what a character does (be honest, be loyal, etc.) and that they are also about what the pony values the most. Applejack really cares about being honest with everyone - after all, she finds it hard to lie. And while Rainbow Dash does say a lot of blunt things, she's loyal to her friends deep down inside.

[RWB 229]

Well in a way, loyalty and honesty affect each other. In order to be loyal to someone, you have to be truthful in order to gain their trust. At the same time, by being honest, you become more loyal to your friends. So you really can't have one without the other due to their close relationship with each other. 

 

Actually, completely wrong.

 

You can be the most loyal friend ever and still be a pathological liar to your friend. It's an independent trait.

Similarly, you can be the most truthful person in existence, and at the same time disloyal.

 

Really, they just dun goofed with RD and AJ's elements.

[Nayruthepegasister 118]

Actually, completely wrong.

 

You can be the most loyal friend ever and still be a pathological liar to your friend. It's an independent trait.

Similarly, you can be the most truthful person in existence, and at the same time disloyal.

 

Really, they just dun goofed with RD and AJ's elements.

True, but in order to be truly loyal, you can't lie to often, otherwise your friends won't trust you enough to allow you to be loyal. Although the two are independent traits, they can affect each other in certain situations. 

[RWB 229]

True, but in order to be truly loyal, you can't lie to often, otherwise your friends won't trust you enough to allow you to be loyal. Although the two are independent traits, they can affect each other in certain situations. 

 

1. You don't need your friends approval to be loyal. Heck, being loyal despite mistrust is commonly looked at as heroic.

 

2. Just because people often have both traits, doesn't make them intrinsically connected.

 

 

 

 

connected.

[Sugar Cube 4,843]

Or maybe it just so happens that Applejack is both honest and loyal? And maybe Rainbow Dash is loyal and honest too? Bear in mind though, honesty is more than just not telling lies. Honesty is sincerity, frankness, uprightness, and fairness. Applejack can check off all of those traits, but can Rainbow? Rainbow is definitely not as upright or fair as Applejack is. She's just blunt in her honesty because she's got a jerky side, but there's far more to the word "honesty" than always telling the truth 100% of the time, which is not realistic anyway.

 

Loyalty fits Rainbow Dash. Think about it. She wants to be a Wonderbolt, and being part of the Wonderbolts means you're part of a team and will be taking orders from those who are higher up. A job like that calls for loyalty, which is why it's a good choice for Rainbow's element.

 

So no, the writers never goofed. It's perfectly okay for both ponies to share both traits. It's also okay for both ponies to be human and not display these traits 100% of the time. They're not perfect.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Sugar Cube

[Nayruthepegasister 118]

1. You don't need your friends approval to be loyal. Heck, being loyal despite mistrust is commonly looked at as heroic.

 

2. Just because people often have both traits, doesn't make them intrinsically connected.

 

 

 

 

connected.

Very true... You have a good point here... Perhaps there was a mistake that caused the writers to switch their elements after all.  

[The-Master 1,176]

This isn't due to their elements corresponding, more just their personalities. But when you have two people with these similar traits you are bound to get some form of clashing between them (especially when you consider the stubbornness and hotheadedness of both parties). For the purposes of Applejack and Rainbow Dash we see this friendly rivalry between them that can easily escalate to the point of spite. This means that these two strong willed characters are bound to clash multiple times for differing reasons. Though they may be similar that doesn't imply cooperation.

[Urkelbot 63]

Good points one and All! I guess I personally don't think it's been any failing on the part of the writers, simply a funny point. Just kind of funny how RD is bluntly honest almost to a fault, While in The Last Roundup AJ is Loyal to a fault while avoiding being honest at almost any cost, haha.

 

I agree that they both display Honesty and Loyalty very effectively. Sometimes the entire concept of the Elements of Harmony seems a bit forced. Not that I don't enjoy seeing the gang shoot friendship lasers at bad guys.

[justinjamal 6]

or maybe  its because they share the same voice actor, you can be loyal and honest if you wanted, however maybe they did switch their elements, its sort of like knuckles and sonic

[Guest]

I know that this may be nitpicky, or irrelevant, but I've been a little bit perturbed about the elements of harmony. Specifically Applejack (Honesty) and rainbow Dash (loyalty)

 

They are 2 of my favorite Ponies, and they do bear similarities, however, watching the series, I've found time and again, that their elements seems to correspond more, not with themselves, but with one another.  

 

RainBow Dash seems to always be telling it like it is, without really worrying if she may be hurting somepony else's feelings. That seems to me, to count more for blunt honesty than loyalty. While AJ seems more steadfast in helping her friends no matter what. 

 

Also, (I know that this is to be Ironic in the writing, but) AJ always seems to be the one who has to lie. Like in Party of one, they make her Tell Pinkie that there is nothing going on inside the barn. That seems to me, more like something to be left to a loyal friend, than an honest friend.

 

I dunno, I'm sure I'm overanalyzing a kids show.... let me know what you think

Well i'm sure both ponies have elements of both and loyalty and honesty because those terms seems to imply one another so really they could be used interchangeably in that it would still make sense if applejack was loyalty while rainbow dash was honesty.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Guest

[SweetieBot2000 0]

Its a fact. Doesn't it just feel right that Applejack would be loyal. considering she is a hard worker and loves her family?

 

Rainbow Dash on the other hand... I don't know if she would be suitable for honesty. What do you guys think?

[Declen 118]

What now?

Why cutie marks? What is wrong with them?

If you mean elements... but their cutie marks have nothing to do with elements (watch Cutie Mark Chronicles).

Also: you may be whant to check this topic out.

And I don't feel like Rainboe Dash is more suitet to be bearer of element of honesty.

[Moonlight 7,286]

Well....I think you mean the elements they hold.

 

Personally, I think Applejack should have been loyalty, while Rainbow Dash could have been bravery.

 

It's a bit too late for that now, though.

[Megas 27,580]

I can't see Rainbow Dash being a good element of honesty, especially since she can't even be honest to herself. Remember that most of the stuff she does, she does it under a mask, since she usually has her self doubt(which Sonic Rainboom heavily reflected upon) Plus she's not really honest, just blunt. Besides, I think she's doing a fine job of being the element of Loyalty

 

I also think Applejack's a good element of Honesty, I think the problem is with how many define "Honesty". The way I see it, Applejack is honesty because she knows how to be honest and knows when it's the right time to be honest.

[Thorns 55]

Well, to be fair, Rainbow Dash certainly is more brutally honest than her peers. In fact, I believe I've noticed Applejack lying more frequently than RD though I could be wrong.

I think it's interesting to note the starking contrast between the two characters, yet how well their respective Elements seem to correlate with one another so bloody well.

Perhaps Rainbow Dash is straightforward and honest in the majority of her designs in direct result of her unfathomable loyalty to those she cares about? Indeed, it appears as if her loyalty only exists between those she has established an interpersonal relationship with.

Applejack's Element is Honesty. Can Honesty coexist without some species of loyalty? Of course. It happens all the time. But the interesting thing about AJ's character is that she possesses both Honesty and Loyalty. And the fusion between Honesty and Loyalty is more commonly understood as Integrity, something Applejack understands very well. For this reason, I believe she's getting the shorter end of the Harmony Straws by becoming the blatant Element of Honesty.
 

[Scootalove 10,689]

A lot of people say that Rainbow Dash should have been Honesty and Applejack should have been Loyalty. Sadly it's too late for that though. But, dare to dream.

[Shanks 10,816]

Even if you could make the case that their elements should be switched, their cutie marks switching seems kind of pointless. Loyalty could fit with Applejack because well honestly I think she could fit well with almost any of the elements but honesty seems like the best fit for her to me. Sure there are moments where she has lied, but she is the most true to herself and to her own principles. Rainbow Dash has at times been honest but not as much as Applejack, Rainbow Dash has some very deep seated insecurities and is often reluctant to show her softer side.

[Thorns 55]

A lot of people say that Rainbow Dash should have been Honesty and Applejack should have been Loyalty. Sadly it's too late for that though. But, dare to dream.

"Oh, and dare I do." - Daring Do

 

Or rather, it would be a cool, edgy quote for her to say. Maybe I'm just a comic book dork. *stops and reflects on what I'm doing with my life* Hmm.. nah!

[Crazydud619dx 30]

I don't understand this. I think you mean their elements should be switched, not their cutie marks. Rainbow Dash with a Apple cutie mark...yeah, let's not go down that road; and Applejack can't fly, so... 

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

I don't see it with RD, but I really think the Applejack would actually fit BETTER as the element of loyalty than as the element of honesty, really. She's lied several times throughout the series, but she seems to always stick by her friends' side.

[Ampharos 1,009]

DigibronyMLP made a video on this recently

 

One of the things he says, is that the elements shouldn't be switched, but rather changed all together.

 

He said that RD is honest to a fault, and can't lie even to spare someone's feelings. He said her element should be authenticity.

 

He also said that Applejack is a pony that the group can fall back on, someone who can keep the group together. He said that her element should be dependability. 

 

I agree with this more so than any other RD/AJ element switch theory thing. And I think you meant element in the title not cutie marks.