Who would win in a fight? Applejack or Rainbow Dash?

[Hive King 1,998]

@Evil Dragon Master: Perhaps not...offensively, I disagree. But direct offense isn't all that matters. Celestia has enough magic to move the sun, and as we saw in the comics and with Twilight Sparkle in Season 4, it doesn't have to follow an elliptical pattern. Celestia was also a wonderbolt, or at least accredited with her own wonderbolt formation, which makes her close to RD, i.e faster than human perception. We also know that they don't need oxygen, so what's to stop Celestia from leaving with Luna to the moon before a single shot is fired and then nudging the sun, say...a couple thousand miles closer to Earth, or moving the moon, say...a couple thousand miles away from Earth, then waiting a week/ a year? Humanity would be toasted alive in the first scenario, and we'd be torn apart by weather patterns in the second.

What's stopping her is that that would kill her as well. Chrysalis's little blast of energy was enough to burn Celestia and despite being right next to her crown, the crown wasn't even melted.

 

And even if they didn't, they'd be trapped by the gravitational pull and unable to move away from the Moon. Their wings would also be useless due to lack of air

[Fractured 2,683]

We've established it's magic that allows them to fly,right? It's the same reason the "hollow-bones" argument didn't fly earlier with Rainbow Dash. Irregardless, weaker ponies are capable of both levitation and self-leviatation, so they could either move themselves through space via magic or move each other if that was really an issue. Regarding Chrysalis, not all energy has to be heat, or even explosive: Celestia's took the full hit of the blast, and the energy was tranferred into her body via her horn, why would her crown be damaged? Also, what gravity are we talking about? They can teleport to dodge that issue all together, or reverse gravity entirely; all the books that Twilight has are from Celestia, so doubtless she knows the gravity reversal spell that Twilight used in the Sombra episode. In a royal canterlot wedding, btw, Shining Armore throws up a city sized barrier, which means that both Luna and Celestia are capable of doing so. So already, we'd have to nuke them just to destroy their shields, killing ourselves. But that doesn't really matter because Lauren Faust herself said this: "Before she appeared in Ponyvile, NMM went to Canterlot to find Celestia and use magic to banish Celestia in the Sun. REVENGE!" That's a pony, presumably trapped in the center of the sun. She also teleported back towards the end of the episode once NMM's hold on her was broken, so again, gravity- not an issue.

Seems like I can't edit my post, so link here: https://twitter.com/Fyre_flye/status/329802778983669761

[Nuke87654 1,849]

What's stopping her is that that would kill her as well. Chrysalis's little blast of energy was enough to burn Celestia and despite being right next to her crown, the crown wasn't even melted.

 

And even if they didn't, they'd be trapped by the gravitational pull and unable to move away from the Moon. Their wings would also be useless due to lack of air

 

But wasn't Celestia cast to the Sun when Nightmare Moon returned if what Amy said was true?

[Hive King 1,998]

 

 

Regarding Chrysalis, not all energy has to be heat, or even explosive: Celestia's took the full hit of the blast, and the energy was tranferred into her body via her horn, why would her crown be damaged

The beam hit Celestia's horn dead on, just barely above her crown. It charred Celesti's horn, meaning its heat was enough to by pass her resistance to heat if she has any. Yet being right next to it, her crown is fine. Convection dictates that if the beam was so hot, the crown should have been slag

 

 

Also, what gravity are we talking about? They can teleport to dodge that issue all together, or reverse gravity entirely; all the books that Twilight has are from Celestia, so doubtless she knows the gravity reversal spell that Twilight used in the Sombra episode

I don't think that's an unlimited thing, not enough to get off a planet at least. Otherwise, Twilight could have just used gravity to float to Cloudsdale

 

 

In a royal canterlot wedding, btw, Shining Armore throws up a city sized barrier, which means that both Luna and Celestia are capable of doing so

That's NFL. Twilight said that only Shining Armor can cast that. So no, they can't do it

 

 

o already, we'd have to nuke them just to destroy their shields, killing ourselves

The same shield smashed by headbutts from some of the most frail things ever?

 

 

But that doesn't really matter because Lauren Faust herself said this: "Before she appeared in Ponyvile, NMM went to Canterlot to find Celestia and use magic to banish Celestia in the Sun. REVENGE!" That's a pony, presumably trapped in the center of the sun. She also teleported back towards the end of the episode once NMM's hold on her was broken, so again, gravity- not an issue. Seems like I can't edit my post, so link here: https://twitter.com/...802778983669761

Faust only wrote three episodes and has no bearing on the show anymore. Using her word is like using Frank Miller's for Batman. It means very little 

But wasn't Celestia cast to the Sun when Nightmare Moon returned if what Amy said was true?

If she was in the Sun, it wasn't literally there. Unless the Moon and Sun of Equestria are ludicrously small, with the Mare in the Moon

[Nuke87654 1,849]

The beam hit Celestia's horn dead on, just barely above her crown. It charred Celesti's horn, meaning its heat was enough to by pass her resistance to heat if she has any. Yet being right next to it, her crown is fine. Convection dictates that if the beam was so hot, the crown should have been slag

 

 

I don't think that's an unlimited thing, not enough to get off a planet at least. Otherwise, Twilight could have just used gravity to float to Cloudsdale

 

 

That's NFL. Twilight said that only Shining Armor can cast that. So no, they can't do it

 

But wasn't Cadence also able to raise said shield as well in Crystal Empire? Also Twilight is able to raise her own personal shield too and her powers >>>>>>>>> Shining Armor at this point in the series so I do not see a reason why they cannot do the same.

 

The same shield smashed by headbutts from some of the most frail things ever?

 

Whose caster was severely weakened and thus the shield was too and they were likely bashing against it for some time.

 

 

Faust only wrote three episodes and has no bearing on the show anymore. Using her word is like using Frank Miller's for Batman. It means very little 

 

Unless DHX has directly contradicted this statement and wrote something else, and especially considering that episode was written by her, her word on this matter actually matters very much.

If she was in the Sun, it wasn't literally there. Unless the Moon and Sun of Equestria are ludicrously small, with the Mare in the Moon

 

 

 

But Amy said the Sun and Moon are the same size compared to our own in an email obtained and used on OBD wiki and I see no reason not to think so.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Hive King 1,998]

 

 

But wasn't Cadence also able to raise said shield as well in Crystal Empire? Also Twilight is able to raise her own personal shield too and her powers >>>>>>>>> Shining Armor at this point in the series so I do not see a reason why they cannot do the same.

Then Twilight is a big fat liar for saying only he can make the shield. And Cadence's shield was only working because Sombra is weak to her magic

"Her love and light seems to keep him away"

 

 

Whose caster was severely weakened and thus the shield was too and they were likely bashing against it for some time.

Yeah, but he didn't even try shielding them from Discord. And we can see that in terms of raw damage, Discord<nuke. we know this because of the raw damage that Tirek's blasts did

 

 

Unless DHX has directly contradicted this statement and wrote something else, and especially considering that episode was written by her, her word on this matter actually matters very much.

True, but most of Celestia's showings are in later episodes.

 

 

But Amy said the Sun and Moon are the same size compared to our own in an email obtained and used on OBD wiki and I see no reason not to think so.

If that's the case, then being sealed into the Celestial objects is merely symbolic, they aren't actually there

 

Also, if they were the same size, then Twilight's tricks in Twilight's Kingdom would have fucked Equestria over 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Then Twilight is a big fat liar for saying only he can make the shield. And Cadence's shield was only working because Sombra is weak to her magic

"Her love and light seems to keep him away"

 

Evidence seems to suggest that rather Meghan changed her mind about how special his talent is and just made him more especially adept at making shields than your average pony. Also she was still using a city wide shield spell regardless.

 

 

Yeah, but he didn't even try shielding them from Discord. And we can see that in terms of raw damage, Discord<nuke. we know this because of the raw damage that Tirek's blasts did

 

I seem to recall that Shining Armor didn't knew they were in the city already and Discord had Tirek along with him so I think a top mid tier character trying to raise his shield against two of the top tier characters in MLP FIM would rather be pointless as it's likely they'll overpower it. You're correct on this point.

 

 

True, but most of Celestia's showings are in later episodes.

 

As my point stands, Faust's word is still very much relevant, thank you.

 

 

If that's the case, then being sealed into the Celestial objects is merely symbolic, they aren't actually there

 

Also, if they were the same size, then Twilight's tricks in Twilight's Kingdom would have fucked Equestria over 

 

Then how was Luna and Celestia sealed inside said objects, they obviously were gone for a period of time because of their internment. Discord's antics in Return to Harmony would've done the same as well but we also see no noticeable effect. I take this as simply the show writers not giving a crap of how scientifically accurate the feats their writing down on the show are, only that they happen in their written episodes.

[Fractured 2,683]

_We have no way of knowing how much heat would have been transferred, anything you could say on the matter is pure guesswork. We also don't know whether energy beams actually transfer heat, since it's not shown anywhere else in the show, and it looks more like a magical overload anyway; Celestia clearly absorbed more magic than she could handle, her body is sparking with excess energy._The shield thing is not a NFL...Cadence did the same thing during Sombra's invasion, and TS did a smaller one when discord tried to attack them._Changeling strength is unquantifiable, so "frail" is a relative term._Faust did write three episodes, yes... but the episode in question are the first and second episodes, which she worked on, so it counts. Actually, sun and moon manipulation aren't really needed here, anyway; Celestia and Luna could flip the continents upside down if the really needed to kill us.

[Hive King 1,998]

 

 

Evidence seems to suggest that rather Meghan changed her mind about how special his talent is and just made him more especially adept at making shields than your average pony. Also she was still using a city wide shield spell regardless.

We'll never know for sure

 

 

I seem to recall that Shining Armor didn't knew they were in the city already and Discord had Tirek along with him so I think a top mid tier character trying to raise his shield against two of the top tier characters in MLP FIM would rather be pointless as it's likely they'll overpower it. You're correct on this point

I was referring to the second time Discord was loose. We saw no shield in Canterlot

 

 

Then how was Luna and Celestia sealed inside said objects, they obviously were gone for a period of time because of their internment. Discord's antics in Return to Harmony would've done the same as well but we also see no noticeable effect. I take this as simply the show writers not giving a crap of how scientifically accurate the feats their writing down on the show are, only that they happen in their written episodes.

Well if they didn't give a crap about scientific accuracy, then moving the objects doesn't mean much. It's like taking Archie Sonic's feats of talking to himself feat seriously

 

 

Changeling strength is unquantifiable, so "frail" is a relative term.

They were getting koed by tripping on Fluttershy, they are pretty damn frail

 

 

Actually, sun and moon manipulation aren't really needed here, anyway; Celestia and Luna could flip the continents upside down if the really needed to kill us

If they could do that, NMM would have tried that against Celestia, at the very least hold the continent hostage. We know she has no qualms about killing with her eternal night blather 

[Fractured 2,683]

"There can only be one princess in Equestria!"... She wasn't interested in killing ponies, the entire point was to a) defeat Celestia, which she did, and force the ponies of Equestria to admire her night. She had no need to kill anyobody; they were so beneath her it didn't actually matter, and it contradicts her ideas. Cadence's shield is canon, so the SA statement makes no sense. Moon's the same size as the ours,btw, you can see it in the Nightmare Rarity arc.You also still haven't replied on Celestia being trapped in the sun; Faust wrote those episodes, and she made the statement, and it hasn't been contradicted, so it's true.

[Hive King 1,998]

 

 

"There can only be one princess in Equestria!"... She wasn't interested in killing ponies, the entire point was to a) defeat Celestia, which she did, and force the ponies of Equestria to admire her night

"The night will last forever!"

Yeah, that would kill everyone

 

 

Cadence's shield is canon, so the SA statement makes no sense

But was Cadence's shield as strong? We know the main reason it worked is because love and light hurts Sombra a lot

 

 

Moon's the same size as the ours,btw, you can see it in the Nightmare Rarity arc

Comics being canon is debatable

 

 

You also still haven't replied on Celestia being trapped in the sun; Faust wrote those episodes, and she made the statement, and it hasn't been contradicted, so it's true.

If that's the case, then NMM is massive, being able to make a visible impression on the Moon. Either that, or it's symbolic. Sort of like sealing a demon into a jar 

[Fractured 2,683]

You seem to be failing to understand how energy systems work, so let me rehash Newton's third law"for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Celestia and Luna move the sun and moon using magic, ala energy, from their own body, without the assistance of magical items or anything that would render Newton's law null and void. This means that they can, at minimum, resist the amount of force that they can give out, since everything, at its basic level, is energy, kinetic, heat, or otherwise, and living creatures are energy systems. In the example of physical force, a character that is capable of moving something with 5 kilotons of force can withstand 5 kilotons of force; since that's the amount of force that is being pushed back on him. That means this character can only be hurt by an attack that releases more than 5 kilotons of energy("kryptonites" nonwithstanding"); 2 kilotons would not affect him. In MLP, magic isn't free, it's a muscle; you are only able to lift,teleport,etc the amount of magical force you can unleash, and an equal but opposite amount of energy for the job is required, which is why Twilight can lift Spike with no problem, but almost failed to carry the Ursa Minor. That means a character that can lift 5 kilotons in MLP cannot be killed by a small caliber firearm; they already have withstood more force on their bodies than a bullet can deliver. Celestia drags the sun through its orbit every day, which means every day, a suns worth of force is pushing back on her; she does this with absolutely no bearing on her physical health. This means that in order to injure Celestia, you would have to exact, at minimum, more than the greatest amount of force she can withstand, a suns worth of force, which, last I checked, we're incapable of doing.

[General Brony1 49]

Ever heard of the anti air launchers? 

But let's face it dash or applejack or even celestia, no one can stand against the might of humanity! 

 

But Applejack doesn't have an anti air launcher! lol

 

And oh yeah buddy when it comes to ground pounding enemies we humans have it in the bag! 

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

However, Celestia was floored and nearly killed by a single blast from NMM, a single blast which wasn't even RPG level

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

Rainbow vs. Applejack would TOTALLY look like this:

Rainbow being Tony, of course.  Oh, and as for the "take a shot" scene at the very end, Twilight and Cadence should get in a fight sometime and do that with their horns.  How awesome would that be?  Like, I know, here you go: there could be a multiple part episode where something happens to send Twilight into downward spiral, you know, like something horrible happens and she starts numb herself by partying and acting irresponsible with her magic.  Then Cadence would try to stop her and they get into a fight like this.

 

Cadence: "Put your horn, down Twilight."

Twi: "You think you got what it takes to be a princess?"

Cadence: "We don't have to do this."

Twi: "You wanna be a heroine?!  Take a shot!"

Cadence: "PUT IT DOWN!"

Twi: "TAKE IT!"

 

KA-BOOM!  Half of Canterlot gets destroyed.  Yeah, they should do that.  That would be epic.  Of course everything would work out by the end, but that would be so awesome.

[Sunny Fox 5,933]

Whatever else we may assume, Equestria's Moon and Sun cannot be like our own. Even if you could move the sun with magic irl, the resulting changes in gravity would have catastrophic consequences for the solar system. Whatever the nature of Equestria's moon and sun, it manifestly is not equivalent to real life.

[Northern Light 205]

Rainbow Dash is my fav mane 6 , but I think AJ would win in a fight.

Exactly! She would destroy RD with one kick

And honestly how does Rainbow even go mach ten?? She would burn alive once she reached mach 1.3 honestly.

[Fractured 2,683]

@Evil Dragon Master: Your logic baffles me. Twilight Sparkle lifts a large building sized bear and creates a city level magical shockwave, Shining Armor and Cadence have created and sustained a city sized barrier for days at a time, Maud Pie creates a nuke level explosion simply through tossing a rock, and Rainbow Dash has done the former on a whim, and created a country level shockwave, as a filly... and yet the Alicorn sisters, the strongest characters in the show, are only RPG level? It doesn't matter what the personal effects are in this instance, just through powerscaling alone, that statement makes no sense. Actually, background effects are a poor measure of power potential; both Goku and Superman's planet level punches fail to shatter the planet, or even destroy whole buildings on most occasions, but they're still planet level, mostly because we go by the best thing they've done, which is blocking planet destroying shots and moving celestial bodies, respectively. Celestia moves the sun, which means her energy output is, at least, equivalent to that of the sun. Luna, her equal, is capable of doing the same. Whether magic has poor energy transfer or DHX was cheap on the special effects budget or the writers don't want to have to reinvent the planet every time someone gets into a beam fight, it doesn't matter- this fact is still unchanged.

@Justin_Case: Hey, DJ-Pon3...give me a fat beat to kick my best friends flank to.

[Cwanky 17,459]

I have something to say about this too. As demonstrated in Twiights's Kingdom Pt. 1(i think)  there is a magic that allows pegasi to fly, because big bad dude guy man was able to seal it from them. They don't have to be hallow boned to fly.

Very true. But all the same cartoon logic aside, this doesn't mean that wings don't help pegasi fly, it may be that the magic is focused in their wings. Nor does it preclude the possibility that pegasi have hollow bones anyways. Both factors, wings and hollow bones, would be traits that allow for easier adaptations to flight.

 

We also know that the real world concept of hollow bones for birds is readily demonstrable with at least 1 example: Bulk Biceps. While the concept of "pegasi magic" allows him to otherwise fly, we see that his large muscular mass, or at least his lack of a wingspan proportional to his mass and size, significantly hinder his abilities to effectively fly. Even if we accept that pegasi don't have hollow bones, its far from unreasonable to suggest that their mass is on average significantly lighter than those of an earth pony or even a unicorn.

 

Also while we're on the subject of pony powers and Tirek, that episode, Twilight's Kingdom, Part 1, effectively disproves any notion that earth pony strength is a myth. In that same montage you allude to where Tirek is draining pony magic, Celestia herself explicitly states:

 

"There is word he is going after earth ponies as well. Without their strength, they will not be able to tend the land."

 

Of course this wasn't the first time strength was attributed to earth ponies. In Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell, book, its mentioned when becoming an alicorn she got from earth ponies the "strength of a good, true heart."

[Complexity 181]

Obviously Rainbow Dash. With her outstanding speed and agility, there's no way Applejack would be able to get a hit in.

Rainbow Dash would be able to fly in and land a barrage of hits, then fly away as fast as she came in.

[Fractured 2,683]

@Cwanky: earth pony magic is so ambiguous- what does it do, anyway? it's hard to tell because Earth ponies have a wider range of jobs that don't focus on that attribute; a high majority of pegasus use their flying ability, and most unicorns use their magic, but only a couple of Earth ponies use their ability to tend the fields(Cheerilee's a teacher, Octavia's a musician, Pinkie's a baker,etc).

[Miles 2,512]

I was going to stay on my haitus (from this thread specifically and only)... but my curiosity got the best of me, and I had to see what was going on.

 

Earth ponies ARE the most physically strong.  Period.  Maud jackhammered through a multi-ton boulder in a matter of a few seconds.  Applejack raped that bell into the air with a buck kick; and stopped a truck full of ponies going down hill at a high rate of speed.  Big Mac pulled countless insanely heavy objects, I shouldn't have to even give the instances.  Good heavens, even little Apple Bloom pulled a large cart full of apple pies (which in real life standards probably would weigh 500 to 1000 lbs.  I have more examples of earth pony strength, but I should not have to explain myself on this issue any further.

And as for a previous issue - IDK how I forgot to mention this.  Proof that Applejack is heavier than Rainbow Dash: she lifted Rainbow on the catapult in a see-saw like action.  IF she were the same weight, the thing would have balanced equally.  But it didn't.  See below spoiler, you neigh-sayers:

 

 

AND only part (about half) of her weight is on that!!!!!  So, logic (and, well, physics) says she HAS to weigh almost 50% more than Rainbow Dash.

 

Bam.  My work here is done for now.

I will be here... waiting.  Come at me 

 

EDIT: 

P.S.  OMG I'm a parasprite now!!! 

Edited July 15, 2014 by Miles

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Miles,

Congratulations, being heavy won't save her from the power of a mach 10 speeding object 

[Miles 2,512]

@@Miles,

Congratulations, being heavy won't save her from the power of a mach 10 speeding object 

I don't really care about your opinion about the power of mach 10.  

 

I just care that you implied I was right about something.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogAqgkkTV5U&feature=kp

 

[Professor Annabella 330]

@@Miles,

Congratulations, being heavy won't save her from the power of a mach 10 speeding object 

Yeah, if Applejack gets her lasso around Rainbow Dash (Like she has easily done before) and pulled her in, one stomp of her hoof and Rainbow Dash is done. Tear off Rainbow's wings and she is absolutely nothing

 

 

Well... other then a super cool, rainbow, magical pony of awesomeness