How to: Hold your end of an argument

[Adorkable 2,737]

Hey all!

 

So, I've had somewhat of a personal problem when it comes to having a discussion, whether it's on an online forum or just in real life. I can't argue or anything along those lines. I can state my opinion on a matter, but when someone takes what I'm saying and throws it back at me, I'm left standing there not knowing how to carry on.

 

I'm not trying to ask how to have a conversation, because I've held plenty in my many years of being alive. But when it comes to debating/arguing/discussing, I'm an absolute noob. I guess I just don't properly understand how to do it, as silly as it sounds.

 

Hoping some of you Debate Pit veterans can help me out here, because I would like to be able to hold my end of an argument in situations needed. It's not as easy as searching Google for guidelines or a walkthrough for this kind of stuff, I prefer to have someone from here help me out.

 

Thanks, guys! (\

[CT-1138 3,182]

Back everything up with credible and reputable sources. That's the best way to back up your argument. I made a post about sourcing here: http://mlpforums.com/topic/85983-a-scientists-guide-to-research-and-the-debate-of-evidence/

Edited April 4, 2014 by Dinos4Ever

[Scootalove 10,689]

Make sure that you cite your sources, have good counterarguments, and justify your reason behind your argument.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Know when something is a lost cause...

There's nothing more frustrating than shouting at a brick wall, surrounded by other smaller brick walls.

[Bright Honor 2,646]

I'm not the best at debates, but it's generally a good idea to not let your opponent's argument effect you emotionally. Don't attack either.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Also, try to leave emotion at the door.

People love exploiting that.

 

Edit: lol guy above me beat me to it

Edited April 4, 2014 by Dattebayo

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Basically the trick is to sound like you know what you're talking about and have the conviction to never back down no matter how many contradictory "facts" the other side throws at you.

 

Seriously, most internet debating comes down to talking like you understand everything about every subject, even if you don't.

[Nine 707]

In broad strokes? From your side, it's about knowing the series of steps you took to reach the conclusions you've made, and being able to relate that verbally or through text. And when someone else is trying to argue something with you, being able to ask the right questions to learn what steps they took to reach their conclusions.

After that, you should find where your disagreement stems from - what different steps you took, and then compare those.

 

 

Basically the trick is to sound like you know what you're talking about and have the conviction to never back down no matter how many contradictory "facts" the other side throws at you.

 

Seriously, most internet debating comes down to talking like you understand everything about every subject, even if you don't.

That's horrible, but I see the humor.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Nine

[Remi 1,309]

COMPLETELY DISREGARD ANY SORT OF VALID COUNTEREXAMPLE AND SIMPLY RANT AND DEMONSTRATE YOUR AUTHORITY AND HOW YOURE RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG.

I took classes from OJ Simpson.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Try not to cuss or name call.

It makes you look sensitive and it'll only further agitate things.

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

In addition to what has been stated above, logic. You need to have a sound process and conclusion, and if an argument is thrown back be able to explain either why the argument hold or how it was misinterpreted and clarify, if that is the case. When questioning the other party, focus on their sources and arguments rather than their conclusion. Morality is an opinion; do not call something "bad" or "wrong", those are opinions. Ethics vary with the local culture, so understand where your opponent is coming from in debates where ethics are the topic.

 

Most important: be willing to concede on points where an argument clearly doesn't hold. The point of a debate is to question the other party's conclusion, but if you are not willing to change, why should it be expected of anyone else. It is not "winning", it is a way to learn, to both strengthen your arguments and consider new viewpoints. This mentality will allow you to benefit from any debate.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Okay, more serious answer: Make sure you have a good understanding of the various logical fallacies, because it helps you see the weaknesses in the arguments of others as well as your own. There is a caveat though: Don't turn every debate into a game of "name the logical fallacy". It's stupid and people who do that need to be severely beaten.

 

Even if your "opponent" is using a logical fallacy, it's still a good idea to try to understand the substance of what they're saying instead of jumping up and down and going, "ooooh, gotcha!" the second you find a fallacy. There are a crap ton of fallacies and it's pretty much impossible not to write a sentence without falling into one or more to some degree.

 

Oh, and my previous post was only partially joking: Remember, most of the people you're talking with are just armchair analysts with a little bit of knowledge about a lot of things, but really not much more than you have. The trick is that they're good at sounding like they know what they're talking about. Armed with that knowledge, you can  be more confident when entering a discussion.

[Karma Lightwing 245]

Honestly It all depends on what kind of discussion it is. If its a very litterary discussion being able toback everything you say up with trustworthy sources is a winner. If its more of a discussion where the other person discusses just to win with any means you just have to find a way to push throught. I have sometimes gone to full BS(MUFFINZ) mode just because the other person wouldnt listen, Then discussed random things that had nothing to do with the initial discussion. Just consider that it all depends on the discussion and the situation. Different people need different approaches.

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

Using your own two hands.

 

Anybody?

 

No takers?

 

[Lyrafinish 72]

Now one of my only talents is being sarcastic, so maybe some remarks would work. Don't name call though, trust me. Unless it's an extremly personaltopic, you can try to lightly throw someone off

[Taviscratch 453]

1. Never word your argument as a subjective opinion but rather an objective fact.
2. Always back up your argument with empirical evidence cited from reputable and credible sources.

If you do both of these, you'll often find you are actually right. If you can't find any empirical evidence to back up your opinion and much against it then chances are your opinion is wrong. Follow the evidence but don't trust the evidence without reviewing its credibility.

[Celestial Wish 349]

Practice. Find someone who debates a lot and go "HEY DEBATE WITH ME! i need comeback practices stat!" XD Of course make sure they're a friend so they know where to draw the line..

 

 

Some people don't know when they've taken it too far.

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

Citing reliable sources has already been mentioned, but also cite responsibly. Source material takes time to read and evaluate, so only post sources where they are relevant and contribute significantly, otherwise it is a waste of time, which will not do you any good. At the same time, if you reference something or state something arguable as fact, be ready to provide sources when questioned.

 

The quality of your source is important. Wikipedia is great for general information, but in a serious debate you would be better off finding more reliable sources. It is also important to read and analyze a source before referencing it; do not just skim to see if it sounds fancy and supports your position, make sure the information is fully relevant and says what you claim it is saying. The exception to this is news, if multiple news sources (social media does not count, twitter has killed too many celebrities) report the same thing, the event most likely happened, though the details may be questionable.

[Serbon div 386]

Research about it a lot.

 

Also, just like in chess, try and think of what might be his next reply, and don't post all your resources and evidence at once, because you won't have what to reply with.

[Milky Jade 138]

It depends a lot on the type of argument, but generally, find the fundamental flaw, whether it is in the premises, conclusion, or both.

 

Debates are magnificent in the way that regardless of who 'wins', at least one party will leave it smarter than before. The inverse is also possible.

 

But, as they are essentially a contradiction, it shouldn't be too difficult to find the false premise(s) upon which the contradiction thrive(s).

The cumbering nature of arguments is, for the most part, confirmatory bias and the all too unthinkable "maybe I'm wrong".

[IcyHaze 594]

Scream and slam your head against your keyboard

[ReverseFaller 2,483]

It all depends on the topic. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you say, somebody will find something wrong with it. Sometimes you'll unintentionally piss people off. 

 

I don't really have any advice to offer that hasn't already been given. I guess just keep calm, make good points, and try your best.

[Castle Bleck 19,296]

Just say, "I WAS FROZEN TODAY!!!" and you'll shut them up.

[Evilshy 5,090]

As a seasoned internet debater...

First, research the fuck out of the topic at hand and keep links to the sources so you can cite them. Nothing feels worse than pretending you know what you're talking about and having somebody come along, cite a ton of sources, and show that you don't.
While researching, keep a flexible mind. If it's something you didn't know much about before, be open to the possibility that your opinion could change now that you have more information.

Write well. To some, it comes naturally, to others, not so much. Although, I've noticed that most internet debaters already write fairly well.

Keep insults out of it. Not only does it not add anything to your argument, it makes you look immature and stupid.
Some emotion is okay, as long as all of your actual arguments are based in fact. Facts are the argument cake, emotions and opinions about the facts are the icing (provided they are also presented well).

There are multiple sides to pretty much everything. In your research, you probably found some arguments for the opposing side. If you didn't, find less biased sources. Try to anticipate what the opponent will argue and ways to address those arguments. Also, if its a small point, you can concede it before they bring it up, which can rob them of a point of argument, as well as show that you are not mindlessly locked into your own opinions.

Don't call people on fallacies or pedantry. The argument is about your opinions and who can back them up more effectively, not who has better English skills. That being said, you should address fallacies if it will help your side. Example:

You argue that more people should ride bikes instead of driving cars. Somebody else replies with something like "If everybody rode bikes, way less stuff would get done because traveling would take so much longer. Also, a bike can't transport stuff as well as a car or truck."
Now, you didn't say "nobody should ever drive cars", merely that less people should, so the other guy is technically using a strawman. In this case, a response could be:

GOOD - I never said that nobody should drive anymore. Obviously some things require it, but there are plenty of people who could just as easily bike to work/school/wherever.

BAD - Nice Strawman. If you actually read my post, you'd notice that I never said nobody should drive.

REALLY BAD - The fact that you have to use a strawman proves you can't think of a way to actually beat my argument.

STOP POSTING FOREVER - lol lrn2english

A lot of people seem to think that calling somebody on a fallacy is a silver bullet, that if they have a single fallacy somewhere, their whole argument is completely wrong. In realty, doing this makes you look immature. As far as I'm concerned, once you start arguing pedantics, you've already lost.

Now, if somebody calls you on a fallacy, take a good look at your argument. Is it really fallacious? Is it because your actual claim is fallacious, or did you just word it poorly? If it's the latter, just admit that you could have worded it better, and then do so. If its the former, rethink things.

Be respectful. This ties into not insulting your opponent, but is a little different. If you've been debating somebody, chances are they aren't an idiot, so don't treat them like one. Don't talk down to them, and don't assume you know more about things than they do. Even if you are an expert on the subject, you never know if they are too. Definitely NEVER brag about how much you know, or use it as part of your argument.

Be willing to end it early. Most internet arguments don't have a winner. Don't be afraid to just say "clearly we are both very set in our opinions, so we'll just have to agree to disagree."

Edited April 5, 2014 by Evilshy