Isn't Tolerance technically a negative?

[Acoustic Cloud 2,202]

Before you get your knickers in a twist, let me just talk about something that's gnawed at me since the beginning of my time in this fandom.

 

Tolerance in itself, isn't a great thing to base a whole culture on.  Being that Tolerance is defined as:

tol·er·ance

ˈtäl(ə)rəns/

noun

 

1. 1.

   the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.

   "the tolerance of corruption"

 

Now it's a good thing yes, but this fandom prides itself on something that it is so far beyond ascertaining it that it boggles my mind.  I would even go as far as to guess that at least 1/3 of Bronies aren't technically, "tolerant".  A group so diverse that it can't stand its own diversity?

 

"A house divided cannot stand!"

 

Where am I getting at?

 

Tolerance is good in itself.  But wouldn't it be better to pride ourselves in something closer towards the word, "Acceptance?".

 

Where not only do you like them for who or what they are, but you have no care to disagree with it, that it shouldn't matter.  Where you can take to heart what you actually preach.

 

All we have is a bunch of people that are just upset with everyone else's standards, and that isn't tolerance last I checked.

 

So why Tolerance? That is my true and final question.  Why?

Why pick a sub-par term, and not even come close to that benchmark?

 

No, Tolerance isn't bad, mostly everyone has something they disagree with, and a lot of us more than others.  I am just curious about IDEALS here, not what the fandom is, but what it SHOULD BE.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Miles Tails Prower

[The JLmle 5,474]

Never thought of it that way; acceptance is a better term... To answer your question as to why that word? Look at the old meme, Tolerate rhymes with hate, acceptance does not...

Yes, I think the answer is that simple

 

[Acoustic Cloud 2,202]

Never thought of it that way; acceptance is a better term... To answer your question as to why that word? Look at the old meme, Tolerate rhymes with hate, acceptance does not...

ponies_gonna_tolerate_by_n0tsaved-d5215yb.png.jpeg

Yes, I think the answer is that simple

Chalking it up to just lazy planning isn't a good enough answer for me.

I mean, yes you make complete sense and your answer is fine, but not an answer for an excuse as a whole.

 

But is that really the problem? That everything is truly, "meme" and considered a "bandwagon".

 

Is there no thinking for the individual?

Edited June 27, 2014 by Miles Tails Prower

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,838]

So you wan't to use the motto "Acceptance" instead?...

[Acoustic Cloud 2,202]

So you wan't to use the motto "Acceptance" instead?...

No, that wasn't my point.

 

I'm saying Acceptance should be a true goal to strive towards.  And Tolerating is the thing we should actually be doing.

[Frostgage 7,972]

Tolerance can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Automatically tolerating everything isn't a good thing, but neither is not tolerating anything you disagree with.

 

Acceptance probably is a better term, but it can be hard to accept people who don't accept you. Sometimes tolerance is the best you can manage.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,838]

No, that wasn't my point.

 

I'm saying Acceptance should be a true goal to strive towards.  And Tolerating is the thing we should actually be doing.

Well..then that's just how things are??...I don't expect every brony to be tolerable or acceptable. It would be swell if they all did,but ya.

[Brony Number 42 10,030]

I think the problem with a lot of people is the blind worshiping of words. People get the idea that "tolerance" is the thing to be striven for. Instead of looking at an issue and thinking about what it means and how it fits with their world view, they jump on the band wagon of popular opinion because they are afraid of being labeled "hateful" or "bigot" or similar.

 

People don't ask themselves "what do I think about this issue? What are the nuanced details and ramifications? Does this align with or against my thoughts of right and wrong?"

 

Instead, people say, "I don't want to be labeled as intolerant, so I better agree with whatever everyone else is saying. I don't care what the issue is, just sign me up for the popular side."

 

Therefore, I would not say "tolerance" or even "acceptance" is the thing to be labeled as "good" or "bad." For example, I would not tolerate or accept mistreatment of your boyfriend / girlfriend. We see here the absurdity of picking vague concepts like "tolerance" or "acceptance" as the things, in and of themselves, to be lauded.

 

"He is a lying, cheating, mean son of a bitch, but I accept him, because acceptance is the right thing to do." No. We should choose more concrete standards, and question even those.

Edited June 27, 2014 by BronyNumber42

[The JLmle 5,474]

Chalking it up to just lazy planning isn't a good enough answer for me.

I mean, yes you make complete sense and your answer is fine, but not an answer for an excuse as a whole.

 

But is that really the problem? That everything is truly, "meme" and considered a "bandwagon".

 

Is there no thinking for the individual?

Unfortunately society as whole is pretty sheepish; while I strive to be me regardless of what the world thinks, there are too few who think this way

Yes, this isn't MLP; but it totally fits; so I'm posting it

[Banul 3,831]

Because tolerace is a much more assesable goal. Honestly, i think tolerance is fine. I don't think its nessisary to accept everything that a person does in order to get along with them.

 

Example: grimdark fanfiction. Alot of people don't like it, but they tolerate it.  They dissagree with what it stands for, but they don't get in the way of people who want to enjoy it. I think this is a perfectly fine state for us to be in. I think what you are describing is impossible.

[Acoustic Cloud 2,202]

Well..then that's just how things are??...I don't expect every brony to be tolerable or acceptable. It would be swell if they all did,but ya.

Basically in the end, I may have not explained well.

 

So let me put it this way.

 

Bronies and Tolerance is a double standard!

 

And I don't think there is a finer way to put it that fits the situation and each outcome of 100% tolerance and none.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Because large scale acceptance is far to difficult to achieve in the context of a fandom. You will never get humanity to fully accept any ideal, no matter how much you force it, or strive to make it agreeable. There will always be groups that will not accept the ideal, but if the ideal is general enough to gain a wide consensus then most will tolerate it it. Tolerance is a far more realistic goal, that can be achieved, you will always, no matter how much effort and resources you spend, have people that will not accept your ideal. But you can achieve widespread tolerance, were they do not approve of your ideal but they will tolerate it existence and not be actively against it.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,838]

Basically in the end, I may have not explained well.

 

So let me put it this way.

 

Bronies and Tolerance is a double standard!

 

And I don't think there is a finer way to put it that fits the situation and each outcome of 100% tolerance and none.

Well Acceptance is too hard of a goal to reach...i can't except everything people do,but i can tolerate it.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Pinkamena-Pills

[Acoustic Cloud 2,202]

Well Acceptance is too hard of a goal to reach...i can't except everything people do,but i can tolerate it.

You are then missing what I stated.

 

It's like philosophy, it's like religion, it's like many sayings, and teachings.

 

Acceptance is the ideal, tolerance is the goal.

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,853]

Unfortunately society as whole is pretty sheepish; while I strive to be me regardless of what the world thinks, there are too few who think this way

Yes, this isn't MLP; but it totally fits; so I'm posting it

I'm sorry but Monster High is something I can't tolerate! My daughter loves it, and I think it's awful!

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,838]

You are then missing what I stated.

 

It's like philosophy, it's like religion, it's like many sayings, and teachings.

 

Acceptance is the ideal, tolerance is the goal.

I guess im missing what your saying because i sort of don't care no offense lol. I really don't see why this is even a issue.

 

But hey,atleast im giving your topic bumps friend. 

[The JLmle 5,474]

I'm sorry but Monster High is something I can't tolerate! My daughter loves it, and I think it's awful!

It's actually my wife's thing... So I have to.  In fact I plan to get her a Dracu-Laura doll for her birthday! (Shhh... don't tell her)

[Arctic Night 884]

Because there are certain things that I can tolerate, but not accept.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Because there are certain things that I can tolerate, but not accept.

Tolerance is just a more grounded goal. Striving for full scale acceptance may be a great ideal, but it is just a waste of resources striving for it.

And the move for tolerance seems to have gone swimmingly so far, no need to change it.

[websterhamster 203]

Kewl, I found this before the second page!

 

I think the whole topic sprouts from Political Correctness, which is something one can only achieve by always agreeing with everybody. That said, I think it's very important to carefully judge what you accept and what you tolerate (and also what you will never tolerate no matter what).

 

Here's a personal example: I have high moral standards, therefore I accept people who don't drink, smoke, or do drugs. I tolerate people who drink occasionally, but not those who smoke or do drugs. Actually, I should rephrase that: as long as they know that their actions are harmful to themselves (and others, in the case of smoking or if they drive while under the influence) and want to get off their addiction or are trying to, I can tolerate, or even accept them. It's more the action that I don't tolerate.

 

Many of you may know my views on homosexuality. I accept homosexuals as people, but I don't accept their actions. That particular subject has involved many people trying to force acceptance on others, while not accepting the others' points of view. I think it's important to remember that bigotry and narrowmindedness can go in both directions, as has been seen in the LGBT issue and racism in the United States.

 

Of course, I don't expect anyone here to tolerate or accept my perspective here, because I know most of you don't already.

[DoubleRainbow_Dash 317]

Depends on how you look at it I guess

[Shenron00 366]

Sadly, I'm not one for "love" or "tolerance", so I'm really not sure how to respond to this.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

Might be slightly off-topic, but this thread reminds me of a book by Ted Dekker (I believe it was either Sinner, Saint, or Showdown, but I can't remember which) set several decades in the future, when laws regarding hate speech had been taken to such extremes that even holding public worship services was considered hate speech. The standard that everyone was expected to uphold was Tolerance for all beliefs, which in effect meant no one was allowed to practice any belief.

 

Not saying that's the inevitable result of thinking in terms of tolerance, though. That's just what it reminded me of.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[Felix 1,363]

I've been on this topic many times, and the last conclusion I came to when talking about this whole tolerance thing was said quite a long time ago. Even now I still agree with what I had to say. So, I'm going to quote what my previous thought on the matter was.

 

I just wanted to pop in real fast. I think when people say "Love & Tolerate" they're not really thinking straight. In no way is it possible to tolerate everyone, that's just insane, no matter how nice you are. So I agree there. But for that reason, the statement really shouldn't be taken to that extent. I do follow a sense of love and tolerance, yes, but only to those that can actually be tolerated. Basically, if you're an absolute jerk, no, I'm not gonna tolerate you very well. I think if you're gonna love and tolerate you need to set your own boundaries by which you mean to support others. Not everyone is the same. Some people can hardly bear really nice people. No ones tolerance will ever level to the same type of people. Love and tolerating someone is a personal thing to do. When you do it, it's showing your support for that person and the amount of love you give them. You're not trying to treat everyone with such affection, but you're setting your own form of it. Love and tolerance is your own feelings that come from your heart. That's what it means. So, I get where you're coming from. Someone on this topic said it had an empty meaning. I think it's because everyone expects the statement to mean that someone who follows it strictly is the nicest person in the world. To be honest, that's a very distressful title to retain, and in some ways it's cold because people expect too much from you. That's why its lost its meaning. The set expectation for the moral is impossible to achieve. It's cold hearted pressure on someone who follows it.

 

There should be no expectation for ones love and tolerance. What a person gives you, shares with you, that's from their heart is their love and tolerance for you, and that's when it has meaning. Not trying to meet an expectation, but truly mean and show their own level of love and tolerance from deep within their hearts.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Felix

[Shanks 10,811]

The concept is good but it has had its share of abuse from some bronies who have used it as a weapon to try to demonize and guilt trip those they disagree with. I saw a lot of this during the height of the twilicorn controversy with not all but some of the pro side using a very dissmissive tone toward anyone who questioned it. Granted some on the anit side let their paranoia get the best of them but I don't think that whole matter was the brony fandoms finest hour but I have seen far far worse in fandoms I have been a part of over the years. This is a great example of how people confuse the difference between tolerance and acceptance and that accepting or tolerating ideas is very different from accepting or tolerating people.

 

I tolerate certain things that annoy me, I tolerate haters because even though they kiss the fattest part of my ass that giving them the attention they crave is going to play right into their hand so except for maybe the occasional venting on her I pretend they don't even exist. I don't accept haters because they aren't willing to accept me one of the most ridiculous reasons I can possibly think of. I accept the fact that clop and grimdark aren't everyones thing and people completely who fit this description so long as they aren't the judgmental white knights who scapegoat the fans who are into that stuff but tolerate albeit a bit reluctantly the fact that there are groups in the fandom like white knights that annoy the hell out of me but will not accept them.