Does anyone think Twilight Sparkle is a Mary Sue?

[SBaby 660]

Those are somewhat contradictory statements.

 

It's not contradictory at all.  She isn't a Mary Sue, and it's because because she's one of the most competently written characters on the show.  Mary Sue characters are usually poorly written self-insert characters or characters that have no flaws and are perfect in everything.  Twilight is none of this (as has been shown numerous times).  

 

She is the opposite of a Mary Sue, which is why claims that she is one are silly and baseless.

Edited January 9, 2016 by SBaby

[Stasis 39]

It's not contradictory at all. She isn't a Mary Sue, and it's because because she's one of the most competently written characters on the show. Mary Sue characters are usually poorly written self-insert characters or characters that have no flaws and are perfect in everything. Twilight is none of this (as has been shown numerous times).

 

She is the opposite of a Mary Sue, which is why claims that she is one are silly and baseless.

Actually Mary Sues can have flaws. They just don't affect or mean anything to the character or benefit them in some stupid way.

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

Every character in this show is a fucking Mary Sue according to this fandom

I know, right?

 

I probably made this joke before and forgot about it, but if I was a writer for the FIM team, I would absolutely, I mean no joke, seriously, I would absolutely put out a post or tweet or what have you that goes as follows:

 

Season 6 Build Notes:

 

• Nerfed Twilight's horn damage
• Nerfed Twilight's horn laser rate of fire
• Nerfed Twilight's magic resist
• Buffed Celestia's magic damage
• Nerfed Cadance's love power
• Buffed Spike's fire damage
• Nerfed Rainbow's Speed
• Buffed Rainbow's Speed
• Minor bug fixes

       We will continue monitoring the MLPF for feedback and implement balance tweaks as needed.

[kingfan 4]

no because she still has her flaws unlike bella from twilight 

[heavens-champion 1,905]

Hardly. If she was, she wouldn't have gotten hurt so much in the earlier seasons.

Although, it would be nice to have some confirmation that she still needs development.

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

I still enjoy seeing Twilight Sparkle being made to look like a jackass when it happens, even as a Princess.

 

No wait, scratch that.  Especially as a Princess.

[ashi 261]

Nope. While she is attractive, intelligent and powerful, she is also plagued by worry, self-doubt and fear of using her immense power (as well as letting down those who rely on her). She is relateable to on a human (pony?) level.

[Choros Isorropai 409]

now i have to agreee, she isnt a mary sue...yet, and i dont think she will be...unless(movie).

i have been a fan for a "short" time, but ive seen almost all (if not all) eps... waiting on the next one (the times they are a changeling)

and ive seen twilights tendancy to "over plan" in one of the new eps. if she was a "sue" she would have not done that and given simple instructions, instead of a LOOOONG list... list was good for commedy!... and in the long run, it wasnt realy used...(well it was, just not entirly)

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Twilight isn't so much a Mary Sue right now as she is really boring most of the time.... and then when they take steps to reintroduce her flaws and try to fix her in the long term people get butthurt at that being OOC or character regression, even though frankly it's necessary for her viability as a starring character outside of adventure episodes.

[El Duderino 879]

Sort of, but sort of not. She has enough flaws that she isn't a mary sue, but if someone made an OC like just Twilight, people would call it a mary sue. It's also kind of hard to call a main character a mary sue because we use the main characters as standards of what is mary sue. Alicorns are mary sue because there are only a few of them in the show, but if they were really common in the show we wouldn't consider them mary sue. If your OC is more powerful than Twilight, then it is in danger of being mary sue (in DANGER of being mary sue, not automatically mary sue. I'm not trying to pick on anyone's OC). Does that make any sense? The characters in the show have more leeway because they set the standards for what is mary sue in the fandom.

[user1342342 143]

Twilight has been a boring mary sue from the beginning. Nothing about her is interesting, and I have no desire to see this character succeed. 

 

 

 

if someone made an OC like just Twilight, people would call it a mary sue.

 

 

This ^^

[SBaby 660]

Twilight has been a boring mary sue from the beginning. Nothing about her is interesting, and I have no desire to see this character succeed. 

 

 

 

 

 

This ^^

 

 

Ok, then how is she a Mary Sue?  I've seen people claiming that she's one for years now.  Yet not one single person on this entire site has ever come up with a valid reason why she's one.

 

Once again, I doubt most people who posted on this topic even know what the term 'Mary Sue' means.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SBaby

[Lil Pip 775]

She would be a mary sue if she didn't face conflict to overcome.

I.E. the conflicts are resolved as easily as non-conflicts.

Like they tie their shoes easy. I mean you can cherry pick twi as having that but it wouldn't be true since Twi does face conflicts and feels conflicts. Just because she happens to win repeatedly doesn't mean she is invincible due to plot.

 

Deus Ex Machina on the other hand...

Edited August 18, 2016 by Lil Pip

[user1342342 143]

Ok, then how is she a Mary Sue?  I've seen people claiming that she's one for years now.  Yet not one single person on this entire site has ever come up with a valid reason why she's one.

 

Once again, I doubt most people who posted on this topic even know what the term 'Mary Sue' means.

 

The way I see it is a character who is absurdly special, overpowered beyond any reasonable measure, and to where the universe has everything in their favor. Basically Twilight from day one. Doesn't need to be absolutely perfect for that to apply either. If you don't want to call that "mary sue" then fine. 

[chaosprincess 1,067]

I don't like Twilight as a character, but she is not a mary sue in my opinion due to she does have flaws if anything Cadence and Celestia would be more mary sueish in my opinion its easy to take Twilight down  and she is usually wrong and she needs her friends to always help her with battles and when she is called by the map which is not very often she maybe smart, but not perfect, but becoming an alicorn did change her character a bit making her a bit blane and annoying, but overall she is not a mary sue and this is just my opinion.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

Mary Sue characters are usually poorly written self-insert characters

 

 

Yep, that sounds about right. Fits Twilight.

 

 

 

or characters that have no flaws and are perfect in everything

 

No, that's a parody of a mary sue.

[Pearl 23]

Nope. Most people think she's Mary Sue because she's now an alicorn. C'mon peeps, she worked pretty hard to become an alicorn. Also, she had some 'weaknesses' too. In most episodes she had a lot of struggle too. So I don't think she's Mary Sue.

[Lil Pip 775]

 

 

Yep, that sounds about right. Fits Twilight.

 

You gotta be joshin, she is a self insert of who?

 

The way I see it is a character who is absurdly special, overpowered beyond any reasonable measure, and to where the universe has everything in their favor. Basically Twilight from day one. Doesn't need to be absolutely perfect for that to apply either. If you don't want to call that "mary sue" then fine. 

Special people exist, that's not the definition of mary sue, just look to the misfortunes she had, you are totally cherry picking information from your memory. What about Pinkie Keen?

[user1342342 143]

You gotta be joshin, she is a self insert of who?

 

Special people exist, that's not the definition of mary sue, just look to the misfortunes she had, you are totally cherry picking information from your memory. What about Pinkie Keen?

 

The person who created her. Twilight is written by different people though, but she still retains all of the signature traits of a mary canon sue.

 

Did I say Twilight was flawless? There is a line between talented and bullshit, Twilight has crossed that line by a mile. Remember boast busters? That episode should be a reminder of how stupidly overpowered she was, for no other reason than "special".

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

sues/stus are used as an insult. It's like UGH THAT TWILIGHT SHE'S SUCH A SUE. And it really works up the fans "SHE'S NOT A SUE!!!" Because Sue/Stu is like the lowest insult there is, fandom wise. XD

But I have seen shows with Stus/Sues before though. There was this terrible one my mom watched (can't remember) with this girl who like kept messing things up and her boyfriend was like perfect looking and was always "It's ok I'm here for you blah blah" he had like no other personality, he was just so bland. You have no idea how much that guy annoyed me. THAT's what I'd call a Stu.

 

Besides, everyone these days dosen't seem to know, what a sue is anyway.

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

The person who created her. Twilight is written by different people though, but she still retains all of the signature traits of a mary canon sue.

 

Did I say Twilight was flawless? There is a line between talented and bullshit, Twilight has crossed that line by a mile. Remember boast busters? That episode should be a reminder of how stupidly overpowered she was, for no other reason than "special".

 

Sir, you clearly have not seen what a Mary Sue really is. I've seen plenty of them and Twilight doesn't make the cut. This is character that has had plenty of development and has had to go through plenty of struggles over the course of six seasons. She is not a Mary Sue.

 

Now if you want to see a Mary Sue then allow me to point you in the direction of Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation that had Venus de Milo and Doctor Who which had Clara Oswald, then you will know what a Mary Sue is!

[SBaby 660]

The way I see it is a character who is absurdly special, overpowered beyond any reasonable measure, and to where the universe has everything in their favor. Basically Twilight from day one. Doesn't need to be absolutely perfect for that to apply either. If you don't want to call that "mary sue" then fine. 

 

Ok, let's see.

 

'Twilight is overpowered'.  Well, she has yet to be able to single-handedly defeat any of the major villains in FiM (Trixie doesn't count, because she can't hold a candle to most Unicorns, let alone Twilight, without help, and with help, she beat Twilight).  She's made almost more mistakes with her power than she's done good things.  And on top of that, the universe didn't have everything in her favor.  Otherwise, nothing bad would ever happen to her.

 

And let's not forget that she has real character development.  She does make mistakes, and she learns from them.  It's the complete opposite of what a Mary Sue is.

 

 

As so many people have stated on this topic already, people need to learn what a Mary Sue is before accusing a character of being one.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SBaby

[user1342342 143]

Ok, let's see.

 

'Twilight is overpowered'.  Well, she has yet to be able to single-handedly defeat any of the major villains in FiM 

 

I gave a perfectly good example of how overpowered she was, why are you ignoring that? 

 

 

 

Trixie doesn't count, because she can't hold a candle to most Unicorns

 

 

Most unicorns can't even open a jar. 

 

 

 

And on top of that, the universe didn't have everything in her favor.  Otherwise, nothing bad would ever happen to her.

 

 

Pretty sure it does. Twilight has been living the life of a spoiled child, her problems are completly erased by "friendship" whenever they come up. Why do you think the slightest amount of stress makes her crumble? It's pretty obvious that Twilight is going to win, no matter what. My suspension of disbelief is broken.

 

Twilight is another "chosen one" cliche that is absurdly talented, super special snowflake with connections to royalty, and a perfect little path of gold paved just for her destiny to ultimate greatness. 

[Lil Pip 775]

1CJB, on 17 Aug 2016 - 9:39 PM, said:

The person who created her. Twilight is written by different people though, but she still retains all of the signature traits of a mary canon sue.

 

Did I say Twilight was flawless? There is a line between talented and bullshit, Twilight has crossed that line by a mile. Remember boast busters? That episode should be a reminder of how stupidly overpowered she was, for no other reason than "special".

She practiced magic all her life(and from a princess no less, implied the best school there likely is) if you will complain about anyone complain about starlight.

And your evidence is not equal to mine, a mary sue is devoid of true conflict, she wasn't. And what, can mary sues exist irl now? A girl can be practicing tennis all her life with the income from the queen of England and tutelage under whoever she hires and suddenly her winning all her matches, despite her obsessing over magic since she was a foal, means she is suddenly overpowered? She loses multiple times through the series, for your evidence to equal mine you need to ignore my evidence. Show me Mary Sues that face conflict or lose, or get mental instability or etc, and show me others agree they are mary sues rather than you just assuming they are.

Crystal Tree and stuff helping her out, or the crystal heart are deus ex machinas not symptoms of a mary sue, and she is deluded in her expectations of Celestia at multiple points. She also fails in being a true mentor to Starlight. AND she gets some character development.

 

Just because others say she is OP due to getting wings doesn't mean its true(and that was a decision by Hasbro more than the writers, season 3 yo a complaint was the finale was too random, and its true, its not the same as her being a mary sue), and Starlight showed she is still vulnerable. The fact she is an element of harmony doesn't prove she is a mary sue, it only shows the universe is out to help her like a deus ex machina, which isn't the same.

 

So ask yourself, does a mary sue lose repeatedly? Does a mary sue get frustrated by someone else? Does a mary sue fail ever? How strong do you have to be a mary sue? Discord must be a mary sue, same with cadance's baby, and celestia cuz she moves the sun and chrysalis because she beat celestia everyone who wins is a mary sue?

1CJB, on 18 Aug 2016 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

 

Twilight is another "chosen one" cliche that is absurdly talented, super special snowflake with connections to royalty, and a perfect little path of gold paved just for her destiny to ultimate greatness. 

Having a good destiny doesn't mean you are a mary sue. Like when she made it 2nd or 3rd in the running of the leaves due to pacing herself, it is just hard work you haven't seen, and she has shown hard work too time and time again. Sure I can admit she is the chosen one, but that alone doesn't make a mary sue. A ms is someone who doesn't get deep conflict, only shallow conflict they quickly resolve. If I am wrong show me something universally agreed upon as a mary sue that does so.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

if you will complain about anyone complain about starlight.

 

Believe me, I did.

 

 

 

a mary sue is devoid of true conflict,

 

 

Twilight will inevitably come out on top, receive all the praise and rewards that should have been shared equally among her friends. I have no reason to belive that her life will be anything less than perfect.
 

 

 

She practiced magic all her life

 

 

They need to show us instead of just telling us how hard she "worked". Twilight reads, good for her. You can't learn everything from reading.

 

 

 

despite her obsessing over magic since she was a foal, means she is suddenly overpowered?

 

No, it was established that Twilight was just that special. They flat out say it multiple times throughout the series. It makes her reading look like fuck-all when she's that absurdly talented. Her little speeches about how she worked so hard to get where she was become hollow and without any meaning or depth. 

 

 

 

She loses multiple times through the series

 

 

Only to be lifted up a thousand times higher. In the end, did she really loose?

 

 

 

Just because others say she is OP due to getting wings doesn't mean its true

 

I thought Twilight was this way before she became an alicorn.

 

 

 

Discord must be a mary sue, same with cadance's baby, and celestia cuz she moves the sun and chrysalis because she beat celestia everyone who wins is a mary sue?

 

 

Celestia and Luna are goddesses among ponies, they have lived thousands of years running Equestria. Their powers/abilities are far more believable in the context of this magical world. Twilight is nearly as powerful just because of "special". Bullshit. Don't even get me started on that little freak baby, we had enough alicorns thank you very much show, and way to crush earning that status

 

Just because someone is successful or powerful doesn't make them a sue. The reasons behind those things usually determine it, in addition to what I've stated previously.