GRIMDARK Opinions

[BROKENLOYALTY 51]

What is your opinion on Grimdark MLP art, FANFICTION, or Music in the Brony Community?

[Frostgage 7,975]

I respect that others like it but it's not for me. I don't see the appeal in watching the characters I care so much about being brutally harmed.

[piece5 131]

Depends on what kind of Grimdark. I really like mutation/muatlist type stuff (Think Flood from Halo or Zombies), but I'm not really into murder/harm.

 

I really like these two pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are allowed, right? They should be. If not, then- nevermind. Not gonna finish that thought XD

[Omega Centauri 317]

The reason I like mlp is because of its cheerful nature, so I really don't care much for grimdark art of any kind. However, I can see the appeal in having dark themes like character death, war, and violence.

 

 

 

 

...But then there's shit like Cupcakes and Smile HD. Fuck that shit.

[11th Doctor Whooves 794]

@BROKENLOYALTY:  Since this topic has to do with MLP Fan fics and art, I'm moving it to Sugarcube Corner.  In the future, please remember that The Everfree Forest is for non MLP and Brony related topics.

[BROKENLOYALTY 51]

Roger That. I was referring more to the Grimdark Genre in poular fiction besides MLP but oh well its now MLP Grimdark.

[Jeric 46,854]

What is your opinion on Grimdark MLP art, FANFICTION, or Music in the Brony Community?

Honestly, I respect the creative license others take with the franchise - as you specifically stated MLP and our fandom - I'm addressing it as such.

 

I understand the need for this expression. Though I'm not a fan personally unless it's a special event like a Nightmare Night story. When it comes to fics, I like simple SOL. My fan labor preferences are closer in line with the show, though I freely admit I have found shipping fics occasionally adorable and well written.

 

Grimdark and gore are genres I actively avoid.

[TheDashingRainbow 134]

I agree with Piece5.. Personally, I enjoy it. As long as it's not inflicting pain.. at least for art.. I enjoy music like Rainbow Factory.. when it comes to art I enjoy pictures that have mutations and what-not.. 

[BROKENLOYALTY 51]

Roger that,  I misread my own post. I derped there. Apologies.

Edited December 29, 2014 by BROKENLOYALTY

[Argumedies 1,748]

As I've said before, stuff like this doesn't bother me as long as its done right.

 

Just remember, some of the world's most beautiful flowers thrive in some of the world's worst manure.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

I think it's largely uncreative tripe that takes advantage of preexisting feelings that were established and nurtured in an altogether separate - and comparatively more original - context.  If you've so much as a creative bone in your body, create your own damned characters and THEN treat them as you will.  If the audience feels anything for them, it will be because you made them feel.  Made the characters worth caring about.  Borrowed sympathy is just...  Blah.  And I think MLP Grimdark generally advocates violence against women, as the harm being depicted is frequently against female characters.  Arguable hypocrisy incoming: I don't particularly care what happens to stallions. :/

Edited December 29, 2014 by Ziggy Belongs to RD

[Alleviate 342]

I have to say, ponies are what got me into Grimdark.

First it was cupcakes, back when it was still new and everywhere was hyped on it, then Silent Ponyville, which got me into Silent Hill, and form there, SAW, and darker things.

 

It's all so very different from your standard MLP Fare that I find it all quite enjoyable. Torture-porn fics and things such as Cupcakes, etc, are acceptable to me if they have a real storyline and are well performed, otherwise they are just poor-quality dreck, such as itself.

 

Another little thing- Romance. I have a 95:5 ratio of Romance fics, I love them. Now, in this genre, I do prefer cheery, light romances, but I have also liked darker ones. I like a clean, nice resolution at the end though.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I like both sides of the fandom, and my libraries feature so.

[remove p l e a s e ? 800]

It ususally kind of depends.

I'm a sucker for cutsie-wootsie stuff, so grimdark isn't my kind of thing.

If it's something real spooky, like a lovecraftian-type of thing, it's kinda cool and it would do it's job: Scaring.

If it's a horrible Creepypasta or a plain dumb story, like Cupcakes or the one millionth fucking lost episode pasta, then no it is not scary at all.

But the thing that scares me the most is skeletons. If you have skeletons in your MLP fan art, then I will not sleep for a couple of months.

[Megas 27,742]

I dislike it do to the fact it's the exact opposite of what I expect from the show

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

I thought of something else:

 

Sometimes I feel as though MLP Grimdark (or its celebration) is a misguided attempt to "butch up" the fandom.  Because what's generally more socially acceptable, age appropriate, and gender-conforming than cute and colorful ponies?  Violence and death.  You'll catch far less flack in general for liking gore than you will for liking ponies.  So, if you accept the first bit as a possibility, I can only assume the accompanying logic is: Introduce something more socially appreciated to something that gets you laughed at by people whose opinions ought not matter anyhow.  And BAM: You can share your interest in ponies through a window smeared with blood!  Perhaps even gaining some small and likely fleeting measure of acceptance from your non-pony-appreciating peers.

 

The more succinct version of this is: People trying to be "cool."

 

I write horror stories.  I enjoy dark, creepy, and monstrous things on some level.  And, most importantly, in the proper context.  At times, I will even use a horror story to purge certain undesirable thoughts and emotions I'm experiencing.  But I sure as hell don't subject adorable ponies to that purging.

[Veritum 257]

There are very few grimdarks that I enjoy, though there are a few. Anything pertaining to the rainbow factory, I.E rainbow factory and Pegasus Device, are my favorites by far. But full out brutal fics like cupcakes and stuff just don't entertain me at all. I'm not one for in-depth gore and such, but I more so enjoy, if not love the aspect of physiological horror, in which case rainbow factory comes into play. It's why I prefer games like Amnesia: TDD for horror games, as it focuses so much on atmosphere and emotions, while still having its fair share of straight up horror and jumpscares.

 

But that's just my opinion

Edited December 29, 2014 by qMotus

[piece5 131]

And I think MLP Grimdark generally advocates violence against women, as the harm being depicted is frequently against female characters.  Arguable hypocrisy incoming: I don't particularly care what happens to stallions. :/

 

Are you sure you used "advocating" correctly? Because, to be fair, when the entire show is comprised mainly of lady characters (I don't like using male/female), then much of the fandom artstuffs is going to revolve around ladies. Advocating? No. Over-indulgence? That's a bit better.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 513]

I have no problem with Grimdark as long as it's done well, as in having an actual story to tell and not just being violent or gory just for the sake of shock value in a shallow attempt at fame/infamy to be the next 'Cupcakes'.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

Are you sure you used "advocating" correctly? Because, to be fair, when the entire show is comprised mainly of lady characters (I don't like using male/female), then much of the fandom artstuffs is going to revolve around ladies. Advocating? No. Over-indulgence? That's a bit better.

 

 

Decidedly an excuse; and a poor one, in my opinion.  I think the very fact that the show is comprised mainly of female characters would be reason enough for anyone who didn't find violence against women acceptable to steer clear of it altogether when intent on concocting this manner of "art."  No earnest member of this fandom is under any obligation to produce Grimdark to being with; it flies in the face of the inherent and most appealing qualities of the show.  And while the series may be dominated by females, male characters DO exist.  This ultimately makes it a matter of personal choice and even deliberate selection.  Soarin, Cheese Sandwich, Bulk Biceps, Flash Sentry, Soarin, Dr. Hooves, Soarin, Discord, Big Mac, Snips, Snails, Soarin, and Soarin are all males.  Here's a more comprehensive list: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Male_characters

 

Seemingly more often than not, it is the females that are chosen for egregious mistreatment; were violent pieces involving ponywomen less popular - and therefore encountered less frequently - I might not be in the position to characterize MLP Grimdark and its contributors / supporters as I have.

 

But that's not the case.  Is it?

Edited December 29, 2014 by Ziggy Belongs to RD
fixed formatting and link issues

[Jeric 46,854]

Violence against women using appropriate narrative techniques is perfectly acceptable. There are specific rules when applied to a story or art piece depicting violence against women that can go deeper that the initial visceral reaction. Violence with a purpose, beyond just for shock value or self indulgent desires, can be a valid element. This would apply to FiM fan fiction and other forms of fan art. 

 

For example, if someone writes about violence, and appropriate juxtaposition would be to place emphasis on the positive representations of non-violence. Ensure that the characterization of the victim's response to violence is appropriate and fully developed. The author's voice should be noticeably placed in the background, and the character engaging in the violence should never have a similar voice as the author. Finally (actually I can go on for much longer about this subject, but I have things I need to move on to),  if there is no thematic or storytelling element (no point) behind the violent interaction ... then it should not be used. 

 

Of course, some art is by nature therapeutically self-indulgent - but if you want to write the 'Ponies in Peril' trope ... take heed at the above. If you can pull it off ... you may have a nice story there. 

 

Again, I personally don't find the appeal of such elements of fan labors in this universe, but considering my enjoyment of King, Cubbit, Burgess, etc, I shall not disparage a reader or viewer for their tastes. 

[Sommar 1,289]

I personally don't find the satisfaction in viewing Grimdark stories, especially if it's about MLP. One of the reasons I like MLP is the innocent and pure nature of the show. I deal with the bad that is thrown at me on a daily basis and this show is an escape from reality. I'm not condemning people who write Grimdark; the choice is theirs to make, it's just I'm not fond of the Grimedark concept to the slightest degree.

[Erethiel 41]

Luna Games got me into this fandom. After reaading some of the gorefic attempts, I have kinda been disjointed from that. Good grimdark though...

[piece5 131]

Decidedly an excuse; and a poor one, in my opinion.  I think the very fact that the show is comprised mainly of female characters would be reason enough for anyone who didn't find violence against women acceptable to steer clear of it altogether when intent on concocting this manner of "art."  No earnest member of this fandom is under any obligation to produce Grimdark to being with; it flies in the face of the inherent and most appealing qualities of the show.  And while the series may be dominated by females, male characters DO exist.  This ultimately makes it a matter of personal choice and even deliberate selection.  Soarin, Cheese Sandwich, Bulk Biceps, Flash Sentry, Soarin, Dr. Hooves, Soarin, Discord, Big Mac, Snips, Snails, Soarin, and Soarin are all males.  Here's a more comprehensive list: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Male_characters

 

Seemingly more often than not, it is the females that are chosen for egregious mistreatment; were violent pieces involving ponywomen less popular - and therefore encountered less frequently - I might not be in the position to characterize MLP Grimdark and its contributors / supporters as I have.

 

But that's not the case.  Is it?

 

It seems to me that you believe that the artists want violence (Against women, men, fillies, colts) to happen all the time. I can't accept that as reason to not like grimdark. Many of the artists simply feel like being a bit dark and edgy. I know a couple, and I asked them if they were doing okay, and they said that they just enjoy flexing their talents in a darker manner. 

 

There are many bro characters, but how many more lady characters are there? I like to think upwards of infinity +1. Simple statistics would show that the more of one type (PonyLadies) of thing is going to be selected for use (Grimdark). When bros are outnumbered ten-to-one (Exaggeration, I know, I don't feel like getting the actual statistic), then there is going to be less grimdark with the bros than there is with the ladies. As an artist, would you rather choose a lesser-known bro character, or a well-known lady character? Many of the artists want exposure, and utilizing popular characters in their art is an effective way to do that. Are there those who actually are advocating for violence? Absolutely. Is it enough to justify a stereotype that all GrimDark artists are advocating violence? Absolutely not.

[Freewave 1,145]

When it's done well it's pretty cool. Violence or gore that doesn't have even a slight tangent to something that the show MAY have nodded off to is somewhat pointless. Stuff like Cheerilee's Garden, A Puppet To Her Fame, The Secret Life of Rarity, Rainbow Factory, And Cupcakes have enough ties to the source material to actually work. But the devil is in the details and whether the writer, artist, tumblr asker, or musician can do it with skill or if its just sloppy hatchet work.

 

Horror might seem out of place in MLP but since sex and horror are part of human interests its not that weird to put MLP thru that prism and see what you get. As long as you label it mature and keep it from the general fandom let it exist as there's a lot of fans of it.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Freewave

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

 

It seems to me that you believe that the artists want violence (Against women, men, fillies, colts) to happen all the time. I can't accept that as reason to not like grimdark. Many of the artists simply feel like being a bit dark and edgy. I know a couple, and I asked them if they were doing okay, and they said that they just enjoy flexing their talents in a darker manner. 

 

There are many bro characters, but how many more lady characters are there? I like to think upwards of infinity +1. Simple statistics would show that the more of one type (PonyLadies) of thing is going to be selected for use (Grimdark). When bros are outnumbered ten-to-one (Exaggeration, I know, I don't feel like getting the actual statistic), then there is going to be less grimdark with the bros than there is with the ladies. As an artist, would you rather choose a lesser-known bro character, or a well-known lady character? Many of the artists want exposure, and utilizing popular characters in their art is an effective way to do that. Are there those who actually are advocating for violence? Absolutely. Is it enough to justify a stereotype that all GrimDark artists are advocating violence? Absolutely not.

I'll begin by saying that you raise interesting points; it gives me an opportunity to explore the subject in ways I ordinarily wouldn't have.  Even if I don't wholly agree with you, you're taking the time to effectively express your thoughts and opinions.  Know that my strong distaste for Grimdark colors my responses (though perhaps you assumed that from the start lol).

 

Warning: Frankenstein's monster approaches.  Cut and pastes and rewrites aplenty.

 

Here I'm seizing upon your choice of words: "Dark and edgy."  Not everything has to be - nor should be - those things.  Dark and edgy has been so overdone and exaggerated that it's, well...  Lost its edge. xD  Why can't art be different?  Seek to become known through its uniqueness rather than its expected broader appeal?  I'm not saying that's a realistic expectation, but it would be the preferable outcome.  I could not enjoy my success and would surely regret the journey if my rise to the top was littered with the likes of pony corpses.  The willingness to repeatedly depict such things is even suggestive of...  Apathy.  Or the pursuit of relative fame, whatever the cost.  I think you should possess enough of an emotional connection to the characters that it hurts YOU when they come to harm.  If the emotional connection isn't there, they're simply meat.  And an unimaginative means to an end.

 

I believe the artists opt for violence (against ponywomen) while there exist any number of alternatives.  Possibly for the very reasons you stated: Exposure.  Popularity.  Am I painting all MLP Grimdark artists with the same brush?  Yes.  Why?  Because I can.  Because they have made it possible (easy, even) by honing in on precisely what it is that most disgusts me about it.  The end result is the same no matter their personal motivations; therefore the motivations do not really concern me.  I might even be convinced that pursuing your break out moment in the art community at the expense of mutilated ponywomen is even more reprehensible than simply doing it because you enjoy making dark art. :/  Grimdark artists should damn well expect negative opinions to come stampeding their way.  What they do is inherently negative, and it is reliant upon preexisting emotions that aid them in eliciting desired - and bigger - reactions (the latter is perhaps truer of written works).

 

And there's another thing about exposure: You're purposely representing yourself with what art you choose to create.  "This is me, and this is what I do."  Even if the artist doesn't intend to promote this type of violence, they are still deliberately and knowingly putting it out there.  There's no little tag attached that says, "Oh, by the way, even though I gained notice by drawing horrific scenes involving, specifically, female ponies, I do not endorse the committal of violent acts against women."  And that nonexistent tag would be BS anyway.  Because the creation and utilization of that art - for the purposes of personal success - is, in and of itself, a silent endorsement of violence against women.  Why?  Because you're missing an essential balancing component:

 

Condemnation.

 

Instead, it's meant to be "cool."  Cooler than colorful equines might normally be viewed as being.  Dark.  Edgy.  Cool.  Who wants to see cute ponies when you can see dead ponies?  And I don't begin to understand how you can see the appeal of both; not if you care at all about the characters.  I generally prefer to see those I care bout, you know, physically intact and relatively unharmed.  That's not a moral judgment: It's a genuine lack of comprehension.  It does not compute for me.