Do you believe in capital punishment?

[ConcorDisparate 385]

Just because you can't explain it doesn't mean you can't deal with the problem it poses.

 

Of course, you can always deal with it. The point is to know whether or not it is moral to do so.

What I mean is that "we can't explain it" or "he's a monster" thing is often more of an excuse to kill without feeling like we are horrible beings.

 

 

 

I think i should have added that if you could indicate which people are beyond help then it's an entirely viable solution.

 

Yes.

 

 

 

But i believe that, execution when you can prove that this individual can and will inflict pain on others he comes in contact with regardless of the quality of therapy or consultation they receive on the other hand, is.

 

It would be fine indeed.

 

 

 

If you cannot consider capital punishment as viable, then surely you must have some alternatives to consider, and are equipped to render such alternatives when required.

 

I agree.

 

However, there is something I can't agree with.

 

 

Note that in some cases, for murderers and rapists for instance, the humane execution they get is much less painful than what they would have inflicted upon potential victims.

 

You can't judge someone for the pain he is able to cause.

Otherwise, we should all get sterilized because we will obviously give birth to people that will give birth again and again, and possibly give birth to a murderer or a rapist after some generations.

 

I completely understand why it would be necessary and why it seems a logical idea to kill these rapists/murderers, but to do this, you must support a biased and immoral Justice.

Justice is not meant to generate benefits by lowering the pain caused in our world, Justice is meant to be fair for every moral being.

 

When I say "moral being", I mean a being that is capable of making moral choices, a being that can choose to do the Good, or the Evil. That being said, insane or sick people don't apply to these rules if they are not capable of making such choices. Besides, we don't judge animals and natural disasters either.

Edited February 27, 2015 by ConcorDisparate

[Snow Frostflame 3,567]

Are you kidding me? I'm going to assume you didn't realise that you just typed that. What is the point of it being public?

yes I meant what I said when someone murdered or committed a crime worthy of death they were executed publicly so that the citizens could see justice weather it was decapitation in renaissance England and France, or hung in 19th century America... much like the others said if your going to take someones life you shouldn't have anymore human rights... murders should be slaughtered like the dogs they are... and giving them a public execution promotes fear and could prevent other murders....

[Scootaloodle 1,621]

I’m against capital punishment on humane grounds, I’m glad my country hasn’t had it since 1964.

 

Capital punishment is nothing more than barbaric murder in my eyes, and two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

Everyone has the right to a life, and that’s no matter what awful and terrible thing they’ve done. Not to say some shouldn’t be in prison but I don’t think it’s up to humans to decide what other humans should live or die.

[Gearbox10mm 794]

The fact is that some "people" just need killing.

 

When the guilty verdict is handed down they should not spend the next 10 years sitting on death row waiting on appeal. They should be marched out and executed on the court house lawn, in whatever manner the victim's family sees fit.

 

Life in prison is a waste of money and resources. Vicious murderers don't deserve three hots and a cot.

[Littlepip3000 111]

Yes; it's only the right thing to do in cases of convicted murderers, rapists, child molesters, and human traffickers. Plus it's a matter of principle; these are people who have committed horrible, heinous crimes; I am personally appalled that my tax dollars feed, clothe, and shelter them. The numbers that prove that it doesn't lower violent crime are really immaterial based on that principle alone, but if you really want to delve into the logical side of it then the fact that capital punishment doesn't deter violent crime is A: it takes 20+ years for the sentence to be carried out. And B: it's always quick and peaceful. Get rid of the needle and bring back the chair, gallows, or firing squad and I bet dollars to donuts the violent crime rate drops. Make it public, too.

You want to know why ancient Rome had such a low violent crime rate? Because they would drop murderers and rapists into a Colosseum and force them to fight tigers and shit with just a sword, AND made it a spectator-sport kind of event where people would come to watch.

[Lisa 5,552]

yes I meant what I said when someone murdered or committed a crime worthy of death they were executed publicly so that the citizens could see justice weather it was decapitation in renaissance England and France, or hung in 19th century America... much like the others said if your going to take someones life you shouldn't have anymore human rights... murders should be slaughtered like the dogs they are... and giving them a public execution promotes fear and could prevent other murders....

 

We've moved on from our barbaric ways such as in the renaissance period. We're not animals that slaughter each other to set an example.

[MechanicalDoom 300]

I mean when I think about it it's kinda messed up that they kill the person but if they did something like kill an entire family it could be necessary

[Guest]

If you wish to live in a society where public executions and an extreme form of capital punishment is the norm, move to North Korea.

[Envy 6,004]

The death penalty has always seemed off to me. I know that people out there commit awful crimes, but saying "Off with their head!" (or whatever equivalent phrase used) comes off as barbaric. How will taking another life solve anything? Such revenge solves nothing, and in fact I have to worry about those who are so quick to want another life taken away.

 

We like to think that our society has progressed so far beyond the middle ages and before, but little pieces of the barbarism of those eras remains in our culture, and is accepted.

[Auto Tweak 1]

I think no one can decide to take the life of other human being, but also i consider that is very expensive (no too much, but unfairy expensive) for the "good" people to mantain an useless individual living. I think that any kind of human punishment has to have the following 2 proposites:
1) Fix the path of the lossen ones, in order to bring them back to society.
2) Dissuade the bad persons to commit crimes.
Revenge is not good because it usually doesn't help anyone and doesn't recover what have been lost.
I think that any individual may like to use their remaining live to understand their error, embrace religion, or just enjoy little pleasures.
So, maybe it's a good idea to use life imprisonment instead of capital punishment, but compel the criminal to work (inside of the jail if possible) for his own food and if he wants to work more some other allowed goods, like books. As far as I know, work is a good way to avoid returning to bad habits and to encourage bad persons to redeem themselves with the society, maybe not archiving freedom but forgiveness.

[CosmicHooves 2,705]

Say a guy walked into a Burger King at a kid's birthday party and shoots up the place, killing everyone.

The cops arrive and the killer surrenders to them.

He stands in front of court and gets found guilty.

He gets life in prison with no possibility of parole.

But my question is, why should he deserve life at all?

There are people in this world who deserve to die.

People who have no respect for human life.

So yes, I am for capital punishment.

In some cases it is necessary.

[ConcorDisparate 385]

If you allow we to question your thinking,

 

 

 

But my question is, why should he deserve life at all?

You see, the way you present it, it works, and I agree with this.

But it is not as simple as that:

 

 

 

Say a guy walked into a Burger King at a kid's birthday party and shoots up the place, killing everyone.

The mind is something really fragile. Say a guy lost his mind and got completely carried away, or someone who consumed too much alcohol, or too much drugs. Is he a terrible human being ?

Well, he killed dozens of children and their parents. But was the guy that killed these the same guy that was put in jail ?

 

Let's see it differently, I wondered something someday :

Imagine a terrible evil being rampaging and killing during years.

Now imagine that he completely lost every single memory he had about that, and that, amnesiac, he became a good being that seek love and peace(yeah it's a bit weird )

Would you put him in jail for the rest of his life, or execute him ? Or would you rather let him live, considering that he became a totally different being, which means he shouldn't be blamed for the acts of another being ?

 

 

Because, you know, there are some insane people that need to be healed, and we can't do much about them.

But let's say your guy wasn't like that, I believe that he can't possibly commit such a thing without being out of his mind unless he was taught to commit such crimes, in this case, we are talking about assassins, terrorists, whatever thing like that.

 

I want to know. If this guy was a fine human being carried away and completely out of his mind, would you execute him ?

Or would you rather execute guys that are paid or taught to kill, being a permanent and obvious threat to the society ?

Sorry my questions are a bit biased, it's like I'm manipulating you , you can rephrase these questions if they feel too biased, but I think you got my point about that.

 

 

 

He gets life in prison with no possibility of parole.

 

Well, anyway, if he was completely conscious during it, he will deny the facts, and if he wasn't, he will also deny them and he will probably never understand why it happened. I'm pretty sure it would drive him even crazier honestly. Unless he isn't judged before years and years of help from doctors, friends, and family; which honestly won't even be possible considering the hunger to revenge of the victims.

 

 

 

There are people in this world who deserve to die.

 

Well, I'm pretty sure that's what some of these guys think before murdering -_- .

Sorry, that was mean, I didn't mean to compare you to them .

Honestly, do they deserve to die ?

It's often a shortcut that everybody uses, but did you think about it ? Did you spend some hours trying to think about that ? Not saying this isn't the case , but why would it be the case ? You know, looking for arguments, and trying to find answers, to open our minds and to think about it. Don't forget it's Death we are talking about, not an everyday topic, we can't afford to make shortcuts only because it makes us feel better.

 

 

 

People who have no respect for human life.

 

If we were to kill every people that don't have any respect for human life in this World, we should begin by getting rid of half the very rich people out here living through the misery of others, and not giving a damn if they die working for them.

I'm pretty sure there are much more of them than murderers.

 

But we won't kill them. And, sorry if you get mad about what I'm going to say but, your example show exactly why it won't happen. Humans don't judge with facts, they judge with feelings. We would better get rid of a rapist that killed 3 children than a guy enslaving and killing hundreds of people through other people. Because, to us, killing children is much more horrible, because we are much more afraid of someone that we don't understand(killing at a birthday party for no reason at all) than someone we "understand" : killing and enslaving to generate profit.

 

 

 

Sorry if I disturbed you about that, I'm just trying to open debates, we won't go anywhere if nobody listen to each other You are free to agree or not about what I have written, and you are free not to reply too if you don't feel like it.

Edited February 28, 2015 by ConcorDisparate

[SCS 7,445]

I definitely believe in capital punishment, and we have every right to judge people who do horrible shit. People who rape anyone should be executed, they do not deserve life. People who kill anyone with malicious intent should be executed, because they don't deserve life either. 

 

And this system we have in which it takes 40 years to execute these losers is ridiculous. Just shoot them and get it over with instead of spending millions of taxpayer dollars on keeping their sorry, worthless asses alive. 

 

And then take that money and use it on things and people that are actually worthwhile, like education and law enforcement.

[Poetic Stone 1,040]

Of course, you can always deal with it. The point is to know whether or not it is moral to do so.

What I mean is that "we can't explain it" or "he's a monster" thing is often more of an excuse to kill without feeling like we are horrible beings.

 

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

It would be fine indeed.

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

However, there is something I can't agree with.

 

 

 

You can't judge someone for the pain he is able to cause.

Otherwise, we should all get sterilized because we will obviously give birth to people that will give birth again and again, and possibly give birth to a murderer or a rapist after some generations.

 

I completely understand why it would be necessary and why it seems a logical idea to kill these rapists/murderers, but to do this, you must support a biased and immoral Justice.

Justice is not meant to generate benefits by lowering the pain caused in our world, Justice is meant to be fair for every moral being.

 

When I say "moral being", I mean a being that is capable of making moral choices, a being that can choose to do the Good, or the Evil. That being said, insane or sick people don't apply to these rules if they are not capable of making such choices. Besides, we don't judge animals and natural disasters either.

I must say that I must agree with you there on everything you have said. You pretty much said it all I am a "moral being", and have a high moral standard for myself. I hate we think we have to put people to death as a solution to some crime, or as a punisment to said crime.

Yes; it's only the right thing to do in cases of convicted murderers, rapists, child molesters, and human traffickers. Plus it's a matter of principle; these are people who have committed horrible, heinous crimes; I am personally appalled that my tax dollars feed, clothe, and shelter them. The numbers that prove that it doesn't lower violent crime are really immaterial based on that principle alone, but if you really want to delve into the logical side of it then the fact that capital punishment doesn't deter violent crime is A: it takes 20+ years for the sentence to be carried out. And B: it's always quick and peaceful. Get rid of the needle and bring back the chair, gallows, or firing squad and I bet dollars to donuts the violent crime rate drops. Make it public, too.

 

You want to know why ancient Rome had such a low violent crime rate? Because they would drop murderers and rapists into a Colosseum and force them to fight tigers and shit with just a sword, AND made it a spectator-sport kind of event where people would come to watch.

This isn't ancient Rome my friend although I do understand the point you make. We are a more advanced culture, and I know Rome in its day was the same. I look as it as a moral choice than anything killing some one as a punishment for a said crime, just seems as bad as the crime. Also your saying make the punishment more violent, and the crime rate will go down, that just seems kind of like backwards thinking. Also buy your sig. there I say your a policeman am I correct in my thinking?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Poetic Stone

[Overdrive 5,366]

I, for one, believe in capital punishment. I believe in today's society, that a criminal truly needs to pay for that they have done. Getting a life sentence in prison is just a copout, an excuse if you will. When that criminal hears they're being sentenced to death, they learn really quick that they messed up. To me, it's also fair in the sense that a murderer took someone's loved one away, and they should have the same fate to truly understand their actions.

[Troubleshoes Clyde 107]

I am against Capital Punishment for the simple reason that killing people because they killed someone is not how it should be done. A life long stay in prison would make them regret there actions and if they happened to be wrongly convicted, they may get out of prison. Plus, killing people for a crime they did is inhumane. If I did get prosecuted for a crime, I think I rather died than be in prison for the rest of my life, and one must give the criminal the least de desirable one if they are to change their ways.

[nolongerabout 403]

Although capital punishment is not the answer to every problem, it can sometimes be a necessary evil. The sheer amount of fear/intimidation that it can cause is an effective deterrent, and sometimes the person truly deserves it. I would much prefer Gulag-style work camps where criminals are put to work to, uh, 'benefit the community'.

But that's just me.

[ConcorDisparate 385]

 

 

When that criminal hears they're being sentenced to death, they learn really quick that they messed up.

 

Depends on the crime.

 

Actually, no, it does not. When you come to the point of killing someone, you either have solid reasons, or you are not in control of yourself.

We are not talking about kids that need to be punished so they understand that they messed up.

About rapists, it's a different story though.

 

 

 

To me, it's also fair in the sense that a murderer took someone's loved one away, and they should have the same fate to truly understand their actions.

 

Is it ?

If you trust in such fairness, you should take the murderer's family away. Same fate.

 

Don't confuse vengeance and justice. By following such logic, we should kill the judge and all the people in the trial because the mother of the murderer loved the said guy deeply.

You don't judge someone because he "hurt" someone that way. You judge someone because of its actual acts -> He killed/raped someone. Feelings are important, it is true. But the humans created the Justice because of that. Humans shouldn't judge each other, it only leads to chaos.

 

I know it's just your opinion, though, you should really consider these criminals as thinking and reasoning humans, not as kids or animals that need to be put down. If you kill someone because he destroyed your entire life and hopes during years, you don't care about being killed and nothing will change it. Killing you will only satisfy the people that don't understand who you are, what you have done, and why, while giving you the years to reconsider your life and acts would help you.

 

 

 

and sometimes the person truly deserves it

 

Who is able to say whether or not he deserves it ?

[Blackshirt Brony 415]

Apart from being completely irrational, I generally see "capital punishment" as a sort of missed opportunity. We should be using violent criminals for research so that such criminal instincts can be better detected in the future.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I'm a little up in the air on the subject. I certainly won't protest to a serial killer getting the axe, but I think for all other cases we should strive for restorative justice rather than retributive justice. Put the convicted to work. It's better than having them sit around doing nothing and wasting money on just keeping them doing nothing!

 

Entropy is nature's way, in all things we as sentient beings must build, construct, and reinforce. Capital punishment, while something I'm not against on principal, only looses another potentially useful set of hands and another perspective.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Littlepip3000 111]

This isn't ancient Rome my friend although I do understand the point you make. We are a more advanced culture, and I know Rome in its day was the same. I look as it as a moral choice than anything killing some one as a punishment for a said crime, just seems as bad as the crime. Also your saying make the punishment more violent, and the crime rate will go down, that just seems kind of like backwards thinking. Also buy your sig. there I say your a policeman am I correct in my thinking?

Maybe we don't have to execute murderers(I still say an eye for an eye is fair) but we should execute rapists, child molesters, and human traffickers. Those are all levels of horrendous beyond simple murder.

 

And no, I'm not a police officer. I want to be one someday soon, though.

[AccountNoLongerUsed 741]

Sort of off topic, we must make sure prison is NOT desirable. I heard that a homeless man actually committed a crime SPECIFICALLY to get in prison because "he would get food and shelter"

[Hovershy 3,813]

I think it is very wrong, I'm very opposed to it. Doesn't make sense to punish someone for murder... by murdering them. I don't know, just seems inhumane and immoral to me. We aren't living in the middle ages.

 

And you can never know for sure if someone is 100% guilty. There have been quite a few cases where someone was killed for a crime they did not commit.

[Blackshirt Brony 415]

Maybe we don't have to execute murderers(I still say an eye for an eye is fair) but we should execute rapists, child molesters, and human traffickers. Those are all levels of horrendous beyond simple murder.

 

And no, I'm not a police officer. I want to be one someday soon, though.

 

If someone commits such an abhorrent crime as one of those that you mentioned, why exactly is it the appropriate response to kill them? It doesn't make the victims feel any better, nor does it reverse the crime. It's also a threat to the rights of any wrongly accused individuals, and attributes a sort of divine authority of judgement to Big Brother that most religions would associate with only God.

 

Not to mention that executions are a very busy process... Lots of paperwork and can be more costly for the taxpayer than imprisonment.

 

"Even when a trial wasn’t necessary (because of a guilty plea), those cases where the death penalty was sought still cost about twice as much as those where death was not sought. Citing Richard C. Dieter of the non-partisan Death Penalty Information Center, Fox News has reported that studies have “uniformly and conservatively shown that a death-penalty trial costs $1 million more than one in which prosecutors seek life without parole.”"

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/

Edited April 9, 2015 by RadioSilence

[Littlepip3000 111]

If someone commits such an abhorrent crime as one of those that you mentioned, why exactly is it the appropriate response to kill them? It doesn't make the victims feel any better, nor does it reverse the crime. It's also a threat to the rights of any wrongly accused individuals, and attributes a sort of divine authority of judgement to Big Brother that most religions would associate with only God.

 

Not to mention that executions are a very busy process... Lots of paperwork and can be more costly for the taxpayer than imprisonment.

 

"Even when a trial wasn’t necessary (because of a guilty plea), those cases where the death penalty was sought still cost about twice as much as those where death was not sought. Citing Richard C. Dieter of the non-partisan Death Penalty Information Center, Fox News has reported that studies have “uniformly and conservatively shown that a death-penalty trial costs $1 million more than one in which prosecutors seek life without parole.”"

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/

Because they've demonstrated themselves to be a menace to society. Because I don't want money coming out of my taxes going to feed and house these abominable sub-humans. Because I don't believe in the "rehabilitation" process of prison. Yeah I'm just one person, so it doesn't really matter what I believe, but this is a forum of opinions. Yes, wrongful convictions occur, which is why the death penalty should only be sought with abundant, definitive evidence. I'm not some frothing-at-the-mouth paranoid nut, who thinks that anyone who is accused of committing a violent crime should be burned at the stake; I have faith in our(American) justice system. The reason why the death penalty is so expensive is because there's the 20+ years the condemned spends on death row, plus the appeals they continuously make, plus the cost of the chemicals and drugs used in the injection. Drop death row time to 5 years MAX and use cheaper alternatives like the firing squad(currently used only by the state of Utah), and the cost would drop drastically. Really the cost is immaterial to me; it's the principle of the matter. I don't want my money being used to feed and house rapists, murderers, child predators, and human traffickers.