Has MLP Gone Downhill

[Arctofire 225]

I'M NOT SAYING THIS SHOW IS RUBBISH NOW. IN FACT, I WANTED TO ADDRESS PEOPLE WHO SAID THAT, LOOK INTO IT, AND SEE IF IT WAS TRUE OR NOT, AND IT TURNS OUT IT WASN'T TRUE.

 

READ BEFORE POSTING!

 

So there's something which I wanted to discuss, and that is: Has MLP gone downhill over the years? Well there are numerous points we have to consider before we come to a conclusion.

 

So, as we all know Lauren Faust created the show in 2010, starting of course, with season 1. Looking back on season 1, I feel this was a very different show to the one today, but first off, let's look at it's strengths and weaknesses. 

 

Season 1 was pretty good, and I don't think there were any episodes which were massively bad. Sure, Bridle Gossip and Owls Well That Ends Well are both awful episodes, but they don't compare remotely to the horrors of Spike at Your Service and Somepony To Watch Over Me. The stories were relatively simple, but also explored a lot of interesting new places in this world, and it had a fair few adventure episodes. We got to see Cloudsdale, Appleloosa, tops of mountains were Dragons live, and loads of other really unique places in this season. The characters are fleshed out more and more as the season went on, with us learning more and more about them.

 

It also had the gala arc which in my opinion worked really well, because it was exciting and told stories within that arc, instead of devoting episodes to just wasting time with the arc (unlike season 4 with the Equestria Games.) 

 

Season 1 was not without it's flaws though. As Twilight Sparkle was the only person who could write a letter to the princess, she had to be in every single episode, even when she wasn't needed.The worst case of this is Fall Weather Friends, it's a great episode, but Twilight was so mercilessly shoehorned into it that it hurt it to a massive degree.

 

Some people may see this as a good thing since we have a clear protagonist, but she's NOT the protagonist in every episode. The other characters get a fair few episodes focusing purely on them, but Twilight always has to be shoehorned in there all the time. So yeah, that was a huge problem.

 

The two parter I thought was pretty damn good. Despite the second part being really rushed, the general lore it established and the way it introduced it's characters and world really worked for me. I though that Nightmare Moon was a fantastic villain, who's backstory is a relatable and almost like it came out of something like Lord of the Rings. She's also a great homage to Maleficent. A lot of things in this two parter pay homage to Sleeping Beauty, as well as Escape from Midnight Castle from G1. 

 

Overall season 1 was good, but it had room for improvement. 

 

Okay on to season 2. Now first off, we'll start with the two parter, it was FANTASTIC. It acts as a direct sequel to the first one, and feels epic, grand scale, and exciting. The story was very deep, and William Anderson's score plays a huge role in making this episode, it's the best he's ever done. Discord, the villain of this two parter, might just be one of my favorite villains of all time. He's scary, sickeningly intelligent, but also hilarious. While the fact that he's funny sounds like it would make him less threatening, it actually makes him more threatening, because he's so compassionless in the way he cracks his jokes. M.A Larson knew how to make a two parter feel both epic and personal, without having massive lasers firing everywhere.

 

Season 2 introduced all 6 ponies getting to write to the princess in Lesson Zero (a fantastic episode) which really helps the show, and no more is Twilight shoehorned into everything. The episodes seem to be just as good as the first one, but the flavor has slightly changed. There is less emphasis on adventure, as that seems to be saved only for the two parters, and the show attempts to pander more to an adult audience through referencing, and has more emphasis on slice of life stories.

 

Whilst this is not bad by any means, the adventure element was something I really enjoyed, but this is just my opinion and personal preference. So I would say that this season was fantastic and a step up from season 1 on a critical level, although season 1 seems more memorable to me due to the adventure. The majority of the episodes were well written and solid, the characters were well realized, and it introduced some mature topics like sistership and handling ego. Sure it had it's fair share of bad episodes, namely Baby Cakes, May the Best Pet Win, The Cutie Pox, and MMMystery on the Friendship Express, and probably more than season 1 did, but I just think that overall it was better than season 1.

 

Until a Canterlot Wedding, the two part season finale.

 

This was when McCarthy got her first hands on the show, and really started to drastically alter it's flavor. Sure season 2 felt slightly different to season 1, but season 3 and 4 were hugely different. I'm not going to go into detail with this two parter, but overall the reason why I didn't like it was because it had a huge amount of plot holes, introduced bland and flat characters, focused on Twilight a bit to much, and messed up with a lot of the lore (aka Princess Cadance, third alicorn princess.)

 

I'm going to wrap this up quickly now because this post is getting very long and I'm tired and need to go to bed. Anyway, Meghan McCarthy wrote another two parter for season 3, which was quite similar to her last one in that it focused on Twilight a hell of a lot, and I didn't like it for many reasons.

 

Season 3 was very lackluster and lazy for an MLP season. Sure, it had some great episodes like: Sleepless in Ponyville, Wonderbolts Academy, Too Many Pinkie Pies, Magic Duel, and Keep Calm and Flutter on, but those are only 5 episodes out of 13, and the rest of them were crap. This is completely different to the previous seasons, where there were much more good episodes than bad ones.

 

This season also had 2 Spike episodes (which is basically synonymous with BAD episode,) and it rushed Twilight's Princess ascension HUGELY.  It was just really short and disappointing overall, and I think this is because they were working on that movie trainwreck. (JUST MY OPINION.)

 

So after the infamous movie, season 4 came out, and I consider this to be the renaissance period for MLP. It was 26 episodes, and had a positive good to bad episode ratio like S1 and S2. Albeit it returned with a much different flavor. It had two two parters, like season 2, but it also had an overflowing story like season 1, two in fact.

 

Now this season I liked a fair bit, sure it had it's fair share of awful episodes, namely: Daring Don't, For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils, and Somepony to Watch Over Me, but it also had some memorable classics, such as: Pinkie Pride, Rarity Takes Manehatten, Flight To the Finish, Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3, and Inspiration Manifestation.

 

It had a lot of just meh episodes, contrary to season 1 and 2 when it was either good or bad, but I feel this was okay. It focused a lot on the Equestria Games and the Tree of Life key arcs. I didn't like the Equestria Games arc, I thought it was just filler and didn't really add anything to the seasons. The keys on the other hand I thought were very well executed for the most part (except Rainbow Falls,) and Twilight's Kingdom was pretty good.

 

What's more important is. What do you think? I personally feel currently it's about the same, although it may have dropped a little bit if you compare the two parters back then to the ones now, and it's quite a Twilight centric show as far as two parters go since McCarthy took over. I do prefer Return of Harmony to Twilight's Kingdom any day, but I think that the normal ,single, slice of life episodes have maintained their quality and have not changed one bit.

 

So, DISCUSS.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Arctofire

[Dulset Tarn 441]

The only thing I can really say about all 4 seasons that isn't incredibly subjective is this.

 

In season 1, the stories were quite often not even long enough for their own episodes! This led to many many scenes where no real story happens, and the characters often just talk to each other with no urgency or worry. Heck, pretty much the whole first 5 minutes of Griffon the Brush Off could have been cut and the story would be unaffected, but damn was it fun! It amazes me that most people seem to have forgotten this was the case, because these scenes were one of the biggest factors in the show's appealing tone, giving us a glimpse at the characters you just don't get from seeing them try to solve a problem. And many of these scenes are some of the best parts of the show!

"What if she exploded, and then she exploded again??"

"FOREVER!"

"I zipped my mouth closed, then locked it with a key, then dug a hole, and buried the key, and then I built a house on top of the hole where I buried the key!"

Flutterguy singing

Among many others! Oh and hey, look at that, they're pretty much all Pinkie Pie, and for very good reason.

Opinions ahead:

If you ask me, these little scenes were almost exclusively where Pinkie shined brightest. She wasn't much more than a gag machine at the time, but even still her gags were fantastic because they weren't interrupting the story, they were in a place that needed comedy, and delivered! In Season 2 she had a few great parts (It's About Time is a fantastic example of using her hilariously without relying on gags) but if you're like a lot of people and think Pinkie's jokes have only fallen flat these past two seasons, it's precisely because there aren't any more of those simple, conflict-less scenes where she excels. Now, every time she shows up with some silly gag it's interrupting what was already going on. You know, the episode.

 

Ok so season 1 had lots of unnecessary but signature scenes that added character, gave the world and characters depth and relatability, and allowed Pinkie to thrive.

 

Season 2 saw the rise of bigger stories, and so those scenes kind of fell out of favor. Honestly, I should have seen this as a big loss, but for some reason it just wasn't. They replaced those scenes with actually great story scenes, so it wasn't all that big a loss, or at least it didn't feel like one. I honestly don't know if this is just me or what. Pinkie especially got more real character, which hadn't even existed in season 1 until Party of One. Somehow they got her to be great without gags, don't ask me how. But the important part is that the level of story to runtime was pretty much perfect.

 

In Season 3 however, I've seen much of the season routinely referred to as "rushed". Taking another step from Season 2, the stories in Season 3 were even bigger than before. But the adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rears its head, because the bigger stories just no longer fit into the episodes! Not only are the quiet, simple character scenes completely gone but a lot of episodes have glaring pacing or resolution issues. It doesn't help that these episodes are some of the most important in the whole series.

 

And Season 4... well it's no secret what I think about it. I don't even know how it fits into this list. I think they must have realized that they can't tell complete stories anymore, so they just completely stopped trying to write a complete story in the first place, and just throw in as much "fun" as possible. This eventually led to episodes filled with exposition that turns out to be contradicted later, or Pinkie Pie episodes completely devoid of humor. This is all speculation on my part, but I'd only be able to describe these episodes as "not even rushed".

[ArcheoPony 76]

Season 4 is what fully "killed" it for me. The Mane Six have to be shoved into everything and the characters haven't really grown or gone further in their lives outside Twilight's forced Princess hood. Nothing really feels new. The only thing that made that season bearable was a couple of the new characters introduced.

 

The show has a vast library of characters, and it's letting it rot in favor of the "Princess Twilight and her Five Friends Show".

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

I personally think season 4 is a step up for the show. Not a downgrade. They take bolder risks with season 4. I also personally ADORE "Sweetie Belle Toils" because it made Sweetie so interesting despite her huge mistakes. Twilight's princess arc was too repetitive though. Season 3 was rushed and messy but not horrible in my opinion. 

[Tom Snyder 4,111]

Season 4 is what fully "killed" it for me. The Mane Six have to be shoved into everything and the characters haven't really grown or gone further in their lives outside Twilight's forced Princess hood. Nothing really feels new. The only thing that made that season bearable was a couple of the new characters introduced.

 

The show has a vast library of characters, and it's letting it rot in favor of the "Princess Twilight and her Five Friends Show".

Twilight being forced into an alicorn for some unknown reason, but Celestia's explanation was enough for me; it just adds confusion. Twilight wouldn't have known what it would take to become one, but yet seemed to not accept it right away. Twilight still has her episodes, but short ones. Applejack, being the most shoehorned character n the show is really depressing; i loved her. But seeing all but Twilight being shoved aside in the S4 finale? don't get me started.

[ArcheoPony 76]

Twilight being forced into an alicorn for some unknown reason, but Celestia's explanation was enough for me; it just adds confusion. Twilight wouldn't have known what it would take to become one, but yet seemed to not accept it right away. Twilight still has her episodes, but short ones. Applejack, being the most shoehorned character n the show is really depressing; i loved her. But seeing all but Twilight being shoved aside in the S4 finale? don't get me started.

Pretty much this is how I felt about the S4 finale. Everyone glorifies it, but it's flawed as heck, so I can't praise it. I think the finale is in part an example of what is now wrong with the series.

[Tom Snyder 4,111]

Pretty much this is how I felt about the S4 finale. Everyone glorifies it, but it's flawed as heck, so I can't praise it. I think the finale is in part an example of what is now wrong with the series.

Yeah, i hear ya.  They could have gone more in depth with all seasons, showed us what makes these characters special; or how they spend their times together when the world isn't in danger. We only got half of what we wanted to see, i wanted to see Applejack get an equal share of episodes, as well as the rest; Twilight got the special treatment.  No saying i hate her, but in fanfics, each is given a special place; but here? not seeing it.

For example, i give each of mine an equal opportunity to prove themselves. Each got a challenge to overcome; even if its not within cannon standards, i appreciate the OC's i do. But not much love i given to any of the cannon cast, just downright awful. 

[rpc8169 228]

I believe it has gotten better over time. The reason Twilight was made an alicorn (other than Hasbro of course) was for more world building, which the show needs. I also think having a full season story arc was a step up for s4 over previous seasons. Then there's Twilight's Kingdom, my personal favorite episode, to bring it all together, Other than some episodes, which are just like, there's a viillian, lets banish it, THE END, TK has a clear story and and an incredibly quotable villain. I do, however, think S3 was a miss and seemed rushed though. MMC made no sense to me. Why did Celestia give Twilight a spell that Celestia prob knew would en up causing chaos!? But I believe S4 improved over S3 alot and I think the show will just keep getting better and better,

Edited March 1, 2015 by rpc8169

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

If by "going downhill" you mean "quickly gaining momentum with each passing season", then yes.

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

No I think you're just growing up. I think All seasons are pretty equal but that's because I started getting into this show after Season 4. In fact I didn't even notice Twilight had wings when I saw a few S4 episodes. I thought this show got more expansive after Canterlot Wedding.

[Ruddboy Olaf 10,627]

No. It's going uphill,in my opinion. Season 4 is definitely the best season so far.

While it has duds like "Equestria Games" and "Rainbow Falls," it also has pretty enjoyable episodes like "Castlemania" 

and "Power Ponies."

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

Season 4 has been my favorite thus far, though not every episode was of great quality. You have wonderful episodes like Twilights Kingdom and Rarity Takes Manehatten, rotten stinkers like Twilight Time, mediocre episodes like Castle Manea, and enjoyable but weird ones like Bats.

 

Then there is a personal favorite called Daring Don't. <3

 

In the end it seems like the Mane 6 AND the CMC have largely grown and matured; though the development could've been a little deeper; possible. In any case I have largely enjoyed what we got so I don't see it going downhill yet. ^^

[Cleverclover 1,525]

Other than the rise of gimmicky episodes and the fact that Twilight annoys me to the point that I find her to be insufferable....not really. Then again, I'm still holding onto my belief that Twilight's Kingdom is the potential "jump the shark" moment for FiM 

[Megas 27,069]

No

 

My expectations haven't changed either

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

One thing I'd like to say is that I honestly don't expect epic or complex stories in most episodes like Avatar. I see it as more of a relaxing show with some slice of life lessons thrown in like Winnie the Pooh, Thomas & Friends, or Arthur with a few Disney-esque moments thrown in. So I think the show is just fine as is.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

I'm gonna say something that will piss some people off apparently.

 

I think the show is actually getting better.

 

DUN DUN DUN!

 

Yeah I said it. The show is getting better. Maybe this might be due to my tastes in entertainment but I see the show improving it's animation and story telling techniques in order to expand it's audience without completely selling out. Yes, they may not always succeed in that in the writing department, but I see way more hits than misses. There is the argument on characrer flanderizations, particularly with Pinkie, but I would rather have this minor flanderiztion than seeing Spongebob crying every 2 seconds or Brian Griffin acting as a mouth piece for a writer's political views. And yes, I am actually looking forward to season 5 (save for the 100th episode).

[Megas 27,069]

Personally I'm sick of everyone and their mothers spewing out "FLANDERIZATION!!!" "OOC!!!" "MARY SUE!!!" "JUMPING THE SHARK!!!" every goddamn second

[LeafFerret 3,382]

I don't think the show itself has gone downhill, I think I just grew tired of the characters of the show, I have nothing against their fans but they are just no longer appealing to me. Unless they're a major change to Season 5, then it's hard for me to get excited if it is no different to Season 4. I'm more interested in OCs now and I don't even think about the mane 6 or any of the other ponies in the show for a second. There is one change I do want although it's unlikely to happen, but I wanted the whole mane 6 to be replaced, I know it's a risk but it's what I want, I'm just getting tired of seeing the mane 6 in every fan made video I see when it could be some cool looking OC.

[baba_booey 4,299]

People say this about almost every show that exists. It really hasn't.

 

Sure, Season 4 had Rainbow Falls and Trade Ya which I wasn't a big fan of either, but S1-S2 had even more meh episode and duds, i.e. Boast Busters, Baby Cakes, The Show Stoppers just to name a few. In fact, I actually think the show has improved since the first season.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Miles Tails Prower

[LeafFerret 3,382]

Season 4 is what fully "killed" it for me. The Mane Six have to be shoved into everything and the characters haven't really grown or gone further in their lives outside Twilight's forced Princess hood. Nothing really feels new. The only thing that made that season bearable was a couple of the new characters introduced.

 

The show has a vast library of characters, and it's letting it rot in favor of the "Princess Twilight and her Five Friends Show".

This is how I feel, I haven't even thought about Season 5 if it's just going to be no different to previous seasons. I can't stand seeing the mane 6 and their designs. Their personalities I can live with though. I would love some episodes without any member of the mane 6. I hate how they have to be in everything.

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

Oh, please god no, not this thread again.  I'm getting sick of all the "this show sucks" threads.

 

 

I would love some episodes without any member of the mane 6. I hate how they have to be in everything.

I've got it.  Let's have George R.R. Martin direct FIM.  He'd kill off the mane 6, and everybrony would be happy.  (sarcasm)

[Venomous 18,813]

I think that the show is just getting better.

[Snow Frostflame 3,567]

the show is far from going downhill personally I think it has improved greatly since S1

hehehe has anyone looked at the Poll its hilarious

[~SadisticFluttershy~ 779]

For me, The show is definitely going up in popularity.

 

Season 4 is one of my fave seasons for several reasons. Though some people may agree that a few of the episodes could've been done better. Every season has its flaws and you can't change that. For example, Equestria Games. It was basically a spike episode.

I don't like spike that much but I watched it anyway.

 

The Season 4 finale was the most epic thing I've ever seen for a kids show.... like.. oh my celestia.

 

I'm hyped up for Season 5 for its reasons. (Won't spoil for people).

 

I became a brony in 2012. I'm still one to this day with the love for the show still going strong! It's what keeps me happy sometimes.

[Singe 2,109]

I actually liked Twilight more during Season 1 and 2 when her character was more rough around the edges. Spike was a lot better during Season 1, as he had a bit of sexism going on of staying away from girly things and he was less of a joke.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Singe