rainbow rocks Did you forgive Sunset Shimmer?

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

I forgave Sunset. She worked so hard to reinvent herself, and become someone who could understand the magic of friendship. Plus, there is this. I didn't notice it the first time I watched, but my heart went out to Sunset when I noticed something very important. When she transformed into a she-demon, she was crying. I think she knew then that she had made a terrible choice, but she had gone too far and couldn't find the way back.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

DQ, did you happen to consider that Sunset made a drastic change after exposure to the Elements because she effectively had an epiphany by their hand, even if a poorly written one? Being blasted by the Elements of Harmony could very well have prompted a drastic change in perspective, that is, she realized that she had, like Venom Snake, become a demon -- whereas beforehand she was obsessed with the power she desired and later had received.

I heard similar logic in the beginning of My Past Is Not Today (lusted for power, went down a broken path, freed by friendship). If Sunset considered redemption prior to the rainbow beam defeating her or if some flashback revealed some type of corruption when she was a pony — either by herself like Luna in the pilot or a third party like Rarity in Nightmare Rarity — then I can believe it somewhat. But Villain!Sunset harbored no conscience and regard for anybody. She had literally no interest in friendship nor did she even care enough to try. In other words, she was no less evil than Sombra, only without the intelligence. In Canterlot High, she was the one others feared while the portal was closed. She was the villain and proud of it.

 

Wouldn't the moments during her defeat be a really key moment for the audience, including myself, to see if the Elements legitimately gave her the chance to make up? EQG1 doesn't show that. The idea that Sunset elected to change as the Elements beat her doesn't work, for we're never shown at any point during those few seconds that she was going to change willingly. It's pure headcanon to assume the DEM might've given her the opportunity. Sunset before and after the rainbow aren't one of the same. The Sunset after is a completely different character, and the Elements are the ones who changed it.

 

The rest of the films thereafter can claim that she elected to change by herself, and I won't buy that bullshit. FIM continuity is season-to-season, film-to-film. Current continuity is connected to the past on the fly. To buy their logic in later canon retroactively means retconning and ignoring the brainwashing implications from EQG1.

 

One of the key attributes of the Elements of Harmony is their potential to grant insight (as seemed to be the case with Twilight in the series opener) or remove the evil shrouding one's vision long enough to regain emotional balance (as was the case with Luna).

That's partially what the Elements were supposed to be, but the film completely disregarded the show's continuity and its own. Rather than repeating ad nauseum, I'll repost what I mean:

The Elements weren't supposed to turn her into a demon or work without all of the Mane Six physically wearing it simultaneously. Consider the fact that EQG was written as a slice-of-life, high-school drama before it became a barrage of magical girl anime tributes.

 

The implication, if anything, is that Sunset was never wholly evil at her core; we were witness to the end results, within the movie, which depicted Sunset as an irredeemable alpha bitch. Once that infestation was cleansed, so to speak, Sunset proved to be a very different person. It was rehabilitation on steroids.

There's no denying what you said was the goal, but there's a difference between what they're trying to say and what they're saying. In order for me to believe the DEM was truly rehabilitating her, I must suspend disbelief and handwave all of the really broken writing as the film closed. Once the ReMane Five realized they broke up their friendship over fraudulent messages without as much as a single thought that they might've been framed, EQG's suspension of disbelief tanked quicker than the 76ers. The broken and lazy writing forces me to call what they show me, even when they try and fail to say something else.

 

Sunset wasn't interested in rehabilitation or having any resemblance of kindness. The execution of her change was a spiritual successor of Nightmare Moon, but the pilot handles this a million times better. Luna was truly in need of rehabilitation because NMM personifies anger and jealousy, and I can buy that because the pilot explicitly stated this before the opening sequence. Sunset's attitude never shifted. The only way she was going to change is by doing so against her will. In short, the Elements resetting/brainwashing her character.

 

It doesn't matter if Sunset's "redemption" was a result of terrible writing. It doesn't matter if Rainbow Rocks, Friendship Games, and the shorts paint a façade over EQG1's major flaws. The unfortunate implications are still there, and they directly affect the sequels' quality. By extension, her whole redemption arc, as well.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[simba86 1,541]

yes i do, and if they would try and build on her then she could be an amazing charactor

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

Was I willing to forgive her at first? No. Did I forgive her? Yes I did

 

Regarding the brainwashing of Sunset:

I call it subjective as I believe it is only what understanding oneself as a person makes for oneself since there was no clear indication given to what happened.

 

It wasn't explained and what wasn't explained, cannot really be labelled as canon or the truth when even the creators/writers have not done so themselves .

 

So whatever understanding one draws from the ending of the first EqG movie is one's own understanding .

 

For myself, as an example, the explanation that I have created for myself is that after Sunset's defeat, she realized that she had crossed a terrible line and that friendship was something worth fighting for, something she herself did not possess.

That is what understanding I draw from the ending (and no, that is not the understanding I first created for myself, since I didn't believe that she had changed at all and that she was only asking for forgiveness so that she would get into less trouble. But I reconsidered my understanding ).

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

The rest of the films thereafter can claim that she elected to change by herself, and I won't buy that bullshit. FIM continuity is season-to-season, film-to-film. Current continuity is connected to the past on the fly. To buy their logic in later canon retroactively means retconning and ignoring the brainwashing implications from EQG1.

 

Not to place too fine a point on it, but you have been asserting that Sunset's brainwashing was definitively demonstrated to be canon, whereas now you're a.) claiming there was the implication that the Elements brainwashed Sunset Shimmer and b.) lurching toward cherry picking from canon. I would more or less agree with your view on retconning in this case, if not for your dismissal of the poor writing as a factor, when it most certainly is.

 

Really, the only way we can reconcile the strangeness and inconsistencies in the third act is to accept the shortcomings of the writing. The story was meant to show the characters and the audience the healing power of friendship, albeit literally empowered by magic. The ideal outcome was for Sunset to realize the error of her ways, just as the cast had done throughout the movie; however, we were treated to an incomplete redemption arc. The narrative never gave any indication, even if through an info dump*, that Sunset Shimmer was once a good or well-intentioned person. I think that's the point you're homing in on, and all told, your assessment really isn't so far off the mark.

 

*(I just remember the scene from Equestria Girls in which there are pictures of Sunset Shimmer crowned as Fall Formal Princess. The first shot may be a hint that Sunset wasn't always power hungry; rather, she genuinely liked receiving recognition from her peers. It was through the passage of time that she became increasingly obsessed with amassing further influence, until she was willing to commit heinous acts to get the adoration she desired.)

 

That said, I also think that same perspective is prompting you to make a face value conclusion about the story's events. For my own part, dissatisfied with the poor writing though I may be, I'm prepared to accept the handwave of Rainbow Rocks and move on. It's not that I believe this discussion is irrelevant -- or else I won't have replied! -- but sometimes there's no avoiding early installment weirdness.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I forgave Sunset. She worked so hard to reinvent herself, and become someone who could understand the magic of friendship. Plus, there is this. I didn't notice it the first time I watched, but my heart went out to Sunset when I noticed something very important. When she transformed into a she-demon, she was crying. I think she knew then that she had made a terrible choice, but she had gone too far and couldn't find the way back.

Like how human Twilight was crying and screaming when the magic engulfed her in Friendship Games, I wonder if magic does that when someone uses it in a negative way?

[Magic Note 2,738]

I do forgive her. I didn't like EG1's version of Sunset Shimmer because I thought she was bland and very one-dimensional as a villain. I didn't notice she was crying when she was transforming.

 

That said, I think EG2's version of her was better written in my opinion.

[Izanagi 176]

i love her. shes my favorite character now. and it's nice her clothing changed..and her hair got paler..never understood that.

[joshuachasseur 6]

Depends how mean was she in the first movie?

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Well to be honest, only after Rainbow Rocks, mostly cause I sort of forgot about her after EQG 1...And now she's second best pony, go figure. 

 

i love her. shes my favorite character now. and it's nice her clothing changed..and her hair got paler..never understood that.

I've sort of assumed it was because they had better computer assets as well as not wanting her to be as bold as she was (color wise). Other than that I got no idea. 

[KatonRyu 1,026]

Of course I did. Sunset only began to become an actual character in RR, and that development was so strong she went from the blandest villain ever to one of my favorite characters. So obviously, I forgive her.

[----- 476]

At the end of the first movie I thought it felt unrealistic that Twilight and her friends forgave her on the spot, but after I saw what the writers did in Rainbow Rocks I could forgive her as well.

[Dawning Demon 950]

I forgave her easy.

 

She's the awesome and adorable Sunset Shimmer!

[Britney Biskit 55]

Like, yeah of coarse I do. Shes like, my 2nd fav character in EG.

[PinkieAwesome 65]

Of course, she is my 2nd fav of the eqg just behind pinkie

[RirePink 30]

Why not? People change and Sunset totally changed. She wanted to, that's why we love her isn't it? (And because she's cute, but Pinkie's cuter. Sorry, sorry, I couldn't help myself)

[Horseboy223 34]

She's one of the members of the horned 3, So Denied until further notice.

Sunset shimmer might be cursed, and the only way to get rid of her curse is to use a potion for her to drink. Any ideas?

It's all her fault, She should be teached a lesson.

On 2015-12-26 at 3:31 PM, cuteycindyhoney said:

I forgave Sunset. She worked so hard to reinvent herself, and become someone who could understand the magic of friendship. Plus, there is this. I didn't notice it the first time I watched, but my heart went out to Sunset when I noticed something very important. When she transformed into a she-demon, she was crying. I think she knew then that she had made a terrible choice, but she had gone too far and couldn't find the way back.

It's her own fault, I would give her a punishment for what she has done. AND BESIDES, SUNSET SHIMMER IS IN HUGE TROUBLE FOR ATTEMPTED MURDER AND BRAINWASHING!