Who will change their tune about Hard to Say Anything?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

HtSA gets a lot of heat, for some reason.  Many people cll it the worst episode of season 7 so far, but ironically enough, those people are also praising The Perfect Pair for being the best of season 7, in spite of both couples being the same. Sugar Belle has curly hair and bakes, just like Pear Butter, Big Mac woos Sugar with a song, like Pear did to Bright Mac, they both nose booped in an awkward moment, and both wound up with their loves in the end, despite difficult circumstances.  

 

I like that so much of Pear and Bright's love story played out in a prequel in episode in episode airing/continuation in pony timeline scenario. These two episodes go hoof in hoof. So do you guys think anyone who hates  Hard to Say Anything, but loves The Perfect Pair might change their tune with the former episode? 

[Will Guide 21,325]

Despite H2SA still being an awful episode, I don't hate it as much as I did when I first saw it. In fact the bad Jabs at Fairy Tales could lead my main OC to an existential crisis, leading the other OC to help remind him what's important, leading to character development for the both of them.

Finding some little good out of a lot of bad is what I like to do.

[Thrond 3,257]

No, because "Hard to Say Anything" is irritating and tedious whereas "The Perfect Pear" is cute and emotional. 

Seriously though, it seems like you don't understand why people don't like "Hard to Say Anything." In that episode, Big Macintosh acts far more obnoxiously than his father ever did, and stuff like him leaning in to kiss Sugar Belle while she's sleeping isn't funny or charming in the least bit. Plus, Bright Mac and Pear Butter had to overcome the feud between their families, whereas all Big Mac had to overcome was some lame rival and his own worst impulses. The two episodes really aren't that similar at all. 

[Ganondorf8 11,120]

I like Hard to Say Anything because it finally gives Big Mac a chance to experience proper romance without it being forced onto him. Granted, some of his actions were questionable and he could have done things a lot differently had the CMC not influenced him. A lot of people have shown disdain towards the episode because Sugar Belle came out of left field. She and Big Mac have never had any on-screen time or interactions with each other until the episode in question so some feel that their romance doesn't make sense--they also prefer him being with Cheerilee despite that being the result of a potion.

[Jeric 46,835]

41 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Many people cll it the worst episode of season 7

Let me rephrase what I said earlier. It is the worst episode in the series. I did watch it again recently since one of the kids didn't see it. So I've had watch it four times. It's not a well constructed story. 

41 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

in spite of both couples being the same.

You've said some things that surprised me, but this is probably one of the more surprising. You write, see, or read romantic fiction or films? It should be obvious how they are unique if you pay attention to how the characters interact. 

They are very different romances and characters. That analysis has nothing to do with enjoyment either. You can love both episodes and both romantic pairs, that's perfectly fine with me ... but there is a lot of differences between the two couples and their dynamic. 

Now, my enjoyment and elevation of Perfect Pair is colored by my personal experiences with love, romance, family, and loss. It also didn't help that Perfect Pair featured a secret wedding and a musically inspired "I love you" reveal. It didn't help that the playful banter between Bright Mac and Pear Butter was very genuine. It was a personal episode. So if you're question is why I liked Pear better than the SugarMac episode ... it's because it felt better. 

There is also this. If I go back in time to 1994 - 1999 and I acted like Big Mac in front of my wife  ... I would probably still be single. My wife certainly would have had none of that nonsense. Trust me, they are different. I lived through 60% of what you saw in Perfect Pear. 

And yes, I actually like SugarMac, in spite of the episode ... not because of it. 

 

[joshyang908 85]

40 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

HtSA gets a lot of heat, for some reason.  Many people cll it the worst episode of season 7 so far, but ironically enough, those people are also praising The Perfect Pair for being the best of season 7, in spite of both couples being the same. Sugar Belle has curly hair and bakes, just like Pear Butter, Big Mac woos Sugar with a song, like Pear did to Bright Mac, they both nose booped in an awkward moment, and both wound up with their loves in the end, despite difficult circumstances.  

 

I like that so much of Pear and Bright's love story played out in a prequel in episode in episode airing/continuation in pony timeline scenario. These two episodes go hoof in hoof. So do you guys think anyone who hates  Hard to Say Anything, but loves The Perfect Pair might change their tune with the former episode? 

No the couples are absolutely NOT the same. Despite Sugar Belle being very similar in design to Buttercup (Oedipal complex anyone?), the story is completely different in all respects. HtSA was about being outright and honest about your feelings to your crush without neglecting their feelings. The entire story revolved around a competition in getting the mare.

Perfect Pair was a Romeo & Juliet mutual love story where the conflict is circumstantial around feuding families and forbidden fruits (apples & pears). There was immediate chemistry and mutual love between the two main characters. The story also was framed around flashbacks which gave the reminiscent episode memorial feelz.

[Storm 199]

My guess is because many ships sank in Hard To Say Anything. Mine did as well but I ended up loving both episodes. Though I do love The Perfect Pear more.

[ManaMinori 4,144]

55 minutes ago, joshyang908 said:

No the couples are absolutely NOT the same. Despite Sugar Belle being very similar in design to Buttercup (Oedipal complex anyone?), the story is completely different in all respects. HtSA was about being outright and honest about your feelings to your crush without neglecting their feelings. The entire story revolved around a competition in getting the mare.

Perfect Pair was a Romeo & Juliet mutual love story where the conflict is circumstantial around feuding families and forbidden fruits (apples & pears). There was immediate chemistry and mutual love between the two main characters. The story also was framed around flashbacks which gave the reminiscent episode memorial feelz.

Um, I am well aware that the stories are different.  Hence the reason I didn't bri in g it up in the op. 

But some of the couple's appearances, actions, behavior, and romantic gestures are. Some. 

 

SOME. 

 

If you look past all the CMC suggested speil, you'll see it. 

11 minutes ago, Tangle said:

My guess is because many ships sank in Hard To Say Anything. Mine did as well but I ended up loving both episodes. Though I do love The Perfect Pear more.

They should know better than to put headcanon as gospel truth

They brought it on themselves

[Jeric 46,835]

1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Um, I am well aware that the stories are different.  Hence the reason I didn't bri in g it up in the op. 

Um, no. You don't get to do that so easily. You don't get to call someone out for answering a call to action you made with the framing that you gave him. You said:

 

2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

in spite of both couples being the same.

Then you went on to do a direct comparison of elements of the actual story. 

 

1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

But some of the couple's appearances, actions, behavior, and romantic gestures are. Some. 

You said they are the same. Same. Your implication is that individuals who like Perfect Pear for it's romantic couple, yet dislike Say Anything, are being hypocritical. Every reply is indicating the opposite detailing the differences in the story ... in the romance. There are similarities, yes. You didn't say that though. You chose the word same. Similar is used instead of same if two items you are comparing were not identical, but have some similarities. You say same if they are identical. Every response is framed in a way that it is based on your choice of words. You said that SugarMac is the same as PearApple. 

You may have forgotten the appropriate qualifier in your OP, but if you said, "similar" you would have answered your own question. The response would be "Yeah but they are not the same". And, if it was deliberate, you followed up suggesting that the response was somehow invalid because they didn't read the OP correctly. 

The OP is completely understood. They are not the same couple. People like one pairing over another because they are not the same. They like a key difference that they see in the parent's story. 

Sigh. 

Here's the thing -- it's ok to like SugarMac more, but when you imply that the opposing view is inconsistent, and then create a call to action based on a faulty premise, you open your point to dilligent criticism.

So, in fairness you should clarify. Do you believe that the romance is the same and people should like Hard to Say Anything, or do you believe that the two couples are similar and there are differences? If it is the former, you are wrong. They are not the same, as several have cogently demonstrated. Akums Razor should be applied to the later. They aren't the same, therefore one is liked more due to the differences. This is the simplest explanation. 

Here's my call to action. Be specific.

1) How are the couples appearances similar? In each example can you list a difference between the two?

2) How are the couples actions similar? In each example can you list a difference between the two?

3) How are the couple's behavior similar? In each example can you list a difference between the two?

4) How are the couple's romantic gesture's similar? In each example can you list a difference between the two?

Answer those questions Nightmares Muffins and you may understand why people like what they like. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Hard to Say is so cringe worthy , CMC look like their S1 version, Big Mac is a bit dumb to follow their advices, this love triangle story is so cliche and cringeworthy. Star-crossed couple kind of story is cliche too (Mac x Butter), but that not all about that episode, it's about family grugdes (Apple vs Pear), regrets (Grand Pear), stand up to your family (Buttercup). 

Both of them are cliche romance couple but one of them is incredibly cringeworthy (Hard to Say), i blame the execution of that episode, not cliche because A lot of FIM eps are cliche and predictable.

Big Mac x Sugar Bell couple is a great idea but they need better wtiters.

[Megas 27,086]

Even as someone who doesn't hate HtSA like a lot of people here, The Phantom Pain beats the shit out of it and it hasn't changed my thoughts on the former, it's just better constructed story and romance with more reason

HtSA had a grown man taking romance advice from children and fairy tales

Edited June 27, 2017 by The Undefeated of the Weast

[Shrug 9,922]

I would have to agree with the general consensus here. I do think that HtSA is the worst of S7. However, the weird thing about this episode is that the MLPFORUMS seems to be the only place where it is getting panned. Everyone else seems to like it. 

That said, I still hate this piece of crap.

The comedy is all either creepy, forced or stupid.

The characters (including BM) are all incredibly stupid and out of character.

Feather Bangs is one of the worst characters of the franchise. If that isn't bad enough, his entire character is just a dated pop culture joke. Hey, DHX! 2009 called! They want their joke back!

The crush is poorly developed and there is very little chemistry between BM and Sugar.

The moral is pedestrian and really obvious.

 

This episode deserves the hate it gets, but not the worst of the series. I could think of about 15 episodes worse than this.

Edited June 27, 2017 by King Clark

[cmarston1 5,952]

I actually kinda like Hard to Say Anything so I don't really need to change my tune about it.

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

lmao That was one of my favorite episodes so far. I guess I'm softer on the show, but still.

You know what I don't have anything too add. I loved this episode. And yes I have shit taste. I litterally can't defend it because I don't even entirley dissagree with what people are saying. I guess I just watch FiM for diferent reasons.