What Is Your Opinion on Occultism?

[Altastrofae 933]

17 minutes ago, Yamet said:

A, you could repeat the same ritual multiple times to prove that it wasn't a coincidence. B, I'm not expecting them to immediately break into a song and dance routine, if they simply recovered over time without the help of medicine as a result of this spell, then you'd have more than proven that it works.  

I-I guess that could work... But I'm still not gonna run around trying to convince people. Like I said, I couldn't care less

[Hazard Time 1,127]

Got into this discussion late, but I have mixed feelings on witchcraft.

As a skeptical atheist, if you can't demonstrate scientific evidence of supernatural phenomena, then witchcraft is about as harmful as live action roleplaying.  The only time I would see witchcraft as harmful is when people assert that magic spells, crystal healing, yoga, or other forms of alternative medicine trump actual modern medicine and convince other people to stop chemotherapy in favor of woo.

Although there have been incidents where various satanic cults got a little too immersed in their roleplaying and actually started sacrificing animals, from what I've seen, they tend to be outliers, and the majority of witches are atheistic in nature.

[Altastrofae 933]

26 minutes ago, Hazard Time said:

Got into this discussion late, but I have mixed feelings on witchcraft.

As a skeptical atheist, if you can't demonstrate scientific evidence of supernatural phenomena, then witchcraft is about as harmful as live action roleplaying.  The only time I would see witchcraft as harmful is when people assert that magic spells, crystal healing, yoga, or other forms of alternative medicine trump actual modern medicine and convince other people to stop chemotherapy in favor of woo.

Although there have been incidents where various satanic cults got a little too immersed in their roleplaying and actually started sacrificing animals, from what I've seen, they tend to be outliers, and the majority of witches are atheistic in nature.

I agree with you on the first part, that stuff should really only be used as an addition to medical treatment. It isn't very predictable in some situations, and it really just doesn't work quickly enough in serious situations. Really, it should only serve as an added precaution. Also, yoga isn't really about healing, it's more of a form of meditation.

But, I can't help but be bothered by you comparing it to roleplay. Animal sacrifice isn't something I agree with, for my own reasons. And I'm not sure how true that last part is. Most witches I've known are either Eclectic-Pagan or some kind of Neo-pagan. I've known like 1 or maybe 2 who were athiestic. As for me personally, I consider myself Wiccan though my practices involve some more eclectic attributes.

[Hazard Time 1,127]

7 minutes ago, CrystalBloodMoon said:

I agree with you on the first part, that stuff should really only be used as an addition to medical treatment. It isn't very predictable in some situations, and it really just doesn't work quickly enough in serious situations. Really, it should only serve as an added precaution. Also, yoga isn't really about healing, it's more of a form of meditation.

But, I can't help but be bothered by you comparing it to roleplay. Animal sacrifice isn't something I agree with, for my own reasons. And I'm not sure how true that last part is. Most witches I've known are either Eclectic-Pagan or some kind of Neo-pagan. I've known like 1 or maybe 2 who were athiestic. As for me personally, I consider myself Wiccan though my practices involve some more eclectic attributes.

Roleplay might not have been the best word to use, and I was a little distracted while writing that, so my apologies.  It was a bit disingenuous to suggest that practitioners of Wicca and other forms of witchcraft don't believe that their rituals hold any sort of power.

For clarification, when I mentioned atheistic witches, I was insinuating that they held a New Age belief system.  This system, which I've heard most commonly from ideologues such as Spirit Science, does believe in supernatural phenomena, such as telekinesis, crystal power, sacred geometry, etc but doesn't assert the existence of permanent divine beings.  Although some do assert the existence of divine beings, they aren't quite the same as what we would recognize as a god, but rather that they're transdimensional hyper-intelligences, the remnant of a mortal being who ascended to a higher plane of existence.

To elaborate further on my opinion, although I don't believe in supernatural phenomena, the occult is still a fascinating subject that I've dabbled in.  I have two OCs with psychic powers, one who practices yoga and believes in crystal healing, and I've had thoughts about integrating some occult ideas into the tabletop roleplaying games I run.

[FizzyWind 64]

When I was going through a phase of researching and thinking about religion, Gods, Demons, Angels, etc. I found out more about Occultism. I believe that occultism is a form of Esotericism but uses a spiritual medium to full fill it’s needs with rituals, alignments, and spells. I think the general held view of the occult is wrong and convoluted by Hollywood to where people perceive it as Evil dark practices. I don’t practice it because I honestly see little point in doing so and it should a subject handled carefully.

[Altastrofae 933]

Just now, The Whiteraven said:

When I was going through a phase of researching and thinking about religion, Gods, Demons, Angels, etc. I found out more about Occultism. I believe that occultism is a form of Esotericism but uses a spiritual medium to full fill it’s needs with rituals, alignments, and spells. I think the general held view of the occult is wrong and convoluted by Hollywood to where people perceive it as Evil dark practices. I don’t practice it because I honestly see little point in doing so and it should a subject handled carefully.

Bro, the Catholic church did that long before. During the witch trials they changed words in the Bible as propoganda.

For instance, it says that witches are commiting sin just by being witches

Originally, that said, one who poisons another has commited sin

They never changed that line back

Same with the crap about homosexuality being a sin

Eventually the lies passed over into pop culture D¦

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

2 minutes ago, CrystalBloodMoon said:

For instance, it says that witches are commiting sin just by being witches

Originally, that said, one who poisons another has commited sin

They never changed that line back

Same with the crap about homosexuality being a sin

Eventually the lies passed over into pop culture D¦

Do you mind if I ask for a source on this? 

[Altastrofae 933]

Just now, Yamet said:

Do you mind if I ask for a source on this? 

Uh sure. I mean, I'll have to look, but the words were changed, I'm certain. Give me a minute

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

4 minutes ago, CrystalBloodMoon said:

Uh sure. I mean, I'll have to look, but the words were changed, I'm certain. Give me a minute

Are you by any chance referring to the fact that church translated the Greek work "Pharmakeia" into witchcraft? I mean, said word can also be translated into the  either "the use or the administering of drugs" or "poisoning".  

[Altastrofae 933]

2 minutes ago, Yamet said:

Are you by any chance referring to the fact that church translated the Greek work "Pharmakeia" into witchcraft? I mean, said word can also be translated into the  either "the use or the administering of drugs" or "poisoning".  

THAT'S THE WORD!!!

That was driving me NUTS! Thank you!

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Just now, CrystalBloodMoon said:

THAT'S THE WORD!!!

That was driving me NUTS! Thank you!

Alright, but witchcraft is still a valid translation of the word. And judging by the context that the word is used, I doubt it's used to refer to either of the two other translations. 

[Altastrofae 933]

3 minutes ago, Yamet said:

Alright, but witchcraft is still a valid translation of the word. And judging by the context that the word is used, I doubt it's used to refer to either of the two other translations. 

*shrug*

[KatonRyu 1,026]

On 5/23/2018 at 6:10 PM, CrystalBloodMoon said:

You won't see evidence unless you're there. That, or I curse you, but I don't want to get into hexes and all that just to prove a point.

My point is, I've seen things you wouldn't believe anyway. I could take that as proof, but no one would believe me (who would), or I could try photographic evidence, but people would say I photoshopped it, or there was a smudge on the lenses. I could try experimentation to calculate how the success rate is too high to be a coincidence, but do you think anyone would take me seriously? No.

You have to be there as it's happening. I personally don't mind that people don't believe it, but this shit changed my life. SO much easier to physically talk to your dieties than leaving it all to guesswork.

The thing is, I and a lot of other people would be better off continuing to believe it isn't real. If I knew magic was real, I sure as hell wouldn't use it for the good of the world. I'd use it to become fabulously rich, because I'm shallow enough to go for that. Well, that, and I have just about everything else I could possibly want in life. I have the best girlfriend ever, I've got my own house, I have a car, everything. Magic, to me, would be a way to obtain money, quit my job, and focus on writing. I'd use it for the betterment of me, and those very close to me, and nothing else.

Considering the one time I actually attempted to curse someone in the way legends sometimes say curses are placed, basically by speaking the curse itself with all the evil intent I could muster, it seemed to backfire spectacularly and hit me, I'm guessing any deities that do actually exist were trying to teach me a lesson, just like the time I tried to battle karma and lost horrifically. I still think both cases were, in actuality, coincidences, but in neither case I tried again just to be on the safe side.

Bottom line, I'll go on believing it doesn't exist because otherwise I'd seriously become a Saturday morning cartoon villain and go mad with power.

[Altastrofae 933]

59 minutes ago, KatonRyu said:

The thing is, I and a lot of other people would be better off continuing to believe it isn't real. If I knew magic was real, I sure as hell wouldn't use it for the good of the world. I'd use it to become fabulously rich, because I'm shallow enough to go for that. Well, that, and I have just about everything else I could possibly want in life. I have the best girlfriend ever, I've got my own house, I have a car, everything. Magic, to me, would be a way to obtain money, quit my job, and focus on writing. I'd use it for the betterment of me, and those very close to me, and nothing else.

Considering the one time I actually attempted to curse someone in the way legends sometimes say curses are placed, basically by speaking the curse itself with all the evil intent I could muster, it seemed to backfire spectacularly and hit me, I'm guessing any deities that do actually exist were trying to teach me a lesson, just like the time I tried to battle karma and lost horrifically. I still think both cases were, in actuality, coincidences, but in neither case I tried again just to be on the safe side.

Bottom line, I'll go on believing it doesn't exist because otherwise I'd seriously become a Saturday morning cartoon villain and go mad with power.

I completely understand that. I don't use it to achieve physical desire, there's little I could possibly want. But it helps to aid who I am as a person. An aid to a spiritual path.

Often curses won't work if you don't have good reason or intent. If you intend to harm the other person, you might get what you seek if it's reasonable, but you better be ready to pay off that karmic dept. Fighting karma is like trying to defeat a punching bag in battle. There's nothing to really "defeat" persay.

And yeah, gluttony isn't something you want to get sucked into when working with the ethereal. You'd end up pissing the Universe off (for lack of a better analogy) and you'd end up having just as much taken away from you. Karma basically works like a failsafe in that sense

[Earl Grey Ghost 444]

Couldn't answer your poll because it says "Support it in every way shape and form?" Yes and no.

As a Pagan with an Altar, who does rituals, I support Occultism, but-----I do not support Black Magic. I support White Magic, which is healing, helping and protection. Black Magic is evil, manpulative, twisted, and dangerous and only hurts others. And anyone who is familiar with Paganism knows the three fold rule.

[Altastrofae 933]

10 minutes ago, Memento Mori said:

Couldn't answer your poll because it says "Support it in every way shape and form?" Yes and no.

As a Pagan with an Altar, who does rituals, I support Occultism, but-----I do not support Black Magic. I support White Magic, which is healing, helping and protection. Black Magic is evil, manpulative, twisted, and dangerous and only hurts others. And anyone who is familiar with Paganism knows the three fold rule.

I don't believe White and Black magic. All energy is neutral. I think what one person sees as Black magic can be used by another with positive intentions. Like your view on death compared to that of others. It's all relative ¦D

[Earl Grey Ghost 444]

4 minutes ago, CrystalBloodMoon said:

I don't believe White and Black magic. All energy is neutral. I think what one person sees as Black magic can be used by another with positive intentions. Like your view on death compared to that of others. It's all relative ¦D

True, you make a point. Any energy can be wielded for good or evil, but that's when it crosses that line into being able to label  it. "Oh you're doing a bad thing with that power/force/energy, therefore you are doing Black Magic." and of course visa versa: "Oh, you did a good thing with that power/force/energy! Therefore it is White Magic!" because certain deeds are labeled under circumstances. But no, truely, I see your viewing on it. Completely fair enough, my dear. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Memento Mori

[Peppermint Larry 203]

I'm actually a Wiccan with a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to what most people call "witchcraft". If I were to, say, carry crystals around, or make a meal or drink with certain ingredients with the intention of helping myself through something- I personally see those things as placebos. And I'm a firm believer that if it takes a placebo to get you through something, there's nothing wrong with that! I feel like that is why many witches will say that magick lives not in our tools, but within ourselves. 

I think divination is nothing more than a card saying, "keep this thing in mind and be on the lookout for it". Which, again, isn't a bad thing. It's just a tool we use to examine and evaluate the situations in our lives. The use of dowsing rods, pendulums, ouija boards, etc. focus on the idiomotor effect- those aren't spirits communicating with you, it's just your unconscious mind communicating with you. That doesn't make them any less helpful tools, though.

As far as doing spells with the intention of changing something outside ourselves goes, I can't really say I believe in them or not. It's not something I really focus on in my path, and it's not something that makes as much sense to me. I do believe, however, that there's nothing wrong with trying, and if people believe in it and are successful at it, so long as they aren't harming anyone, all the more power to them!

[Altastrofae 933]

8 minutes ago, Pepper Mint said:

I'm actually a Wiccan with a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to what most people call "witchcraft". If I were to, say, carry crystals around, or make a meal or drink with certain ingredients with the intention of helping myself through something- I personally see those things as placebos. And I'm a firm believer that if it takes a placebo to get you through something, there's nothing wrong with that! I feel like that is why many witches will say that magick lives not in our tools, but within ourselves. 

I think divination is nothing more than a card saying, "keep this thing in mind and be on the lookout for it". Which, again, isn't a bad thing. It's just a tool we use to examine and evaluate the situations in our lives. The use of dowsing rods, pendulums, ouija boards, etc. focus on the idiomotor effect- those aren't spirits communicating with you, it's just your unconscious mind communicating with you. That doesn't make them any less helpful tools, though.

As far as doing spells with the intention of changing something outside ourselves goes, I can't really say I believe in them or not. It's not something I really focus on in my path, and it's not something that makes as much sense to me. I do believe, however, that there's nothing wrong with trying, and if people believe in it and are successful at it, so long as they aren't harming anyone, all the more power to them!

I actually agree with you completely on that, except for the Tarot part. I've literally gotten the same general message before on the same spread on the same day. Some of them were even the same cards in the same position.

Science shows that if you keep getting the same results, then there's at least a correlation

[Monsoon 1,648]

I don't really care, I do enjoy spooky stuff but I don't really care outside of having some fun

[TheOpticsDuck 189]

It sounds like an interesting hobby or cool lore building stuff, but I don't think it works.
So I am just neutral over it. I don't care much.

[Rosebuds 123]

I am for witchcraft, although I can't agree with those sects that practice animal sacrifice since it's such an old and outdated practice.

Now I'm no vegan or anything, but sacrificing animals for the sake of a practice only to discard them is just....cruel. like if you're gonna sacrifice a chicken for example at least use the animal for food instead of throwing it away.

[Altastrofae 933]

5 hours ago, Rosebuds said:

I am for witchcraft, although I can't agree with those sects that practice animal sacrifice since it's such an old and outdated practice.

Now I'm no vegan or anything, but sacrificing animals for the sake of a practice only to discard them is just....cruel. like if you're gonna sacrifice a chicken for example at least use the animal for food instead of throwing it away.

Well some gods and spiritual beings prefer meat, and while I wouldn't sacrifice an animal, if one of my guardians would appreciate meat as a thanks, I'd get raw meat and give it as an offering.

What most people seem to do with offerings is leave it in nature and make sure that the one who they're offering it to knows it's for them and simply leaves without looking back. Three days later, you come back and it will be gone. I've even had people tell me that they found their offerings just torn apart, like something tried to eat it but was having difficulty doing so. It isn't really "throwing it away" that would be counterintuitive.

I understand why people used to do animal sacrifice though, because it was easier to just kill the animal fresh, rather than drying out and treating the raw-cut meat, back in those days. Today, however, it is very outdated, yes. But understand the reason people did that.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Altastrofae

[Rosebuds 123]

1 hour ago, Altastrofae said:

Well some gods and spiritual beings prefer meat, and while I wouldn't sacrifice an animal, if one of my guardians would appreciate meat as a thanks, I'd get raw meat and give it as an offering.

What most people seem to do with offerings is leave it in nature and make sure that the one who they're offering it to knows it's for them and simply leaves without looking back. Three days later, you come back and it will be gone. I've even had people tell me that they found their offerings just torn apart, like something tried to eat it but was having difficulty doing so. It isn't really "throwing it away" that would be counterintuitive.

I understand why people used to do animal sacrifice though, because it was easier to just kill the animal fresh, rather than drying out and treating the raw-cut meat, back in those days. Today, however, it is very outdated, yes. But understand the reason people did that.

I'm not trying to bash the people of the past. What's done is done and there's nothing else to it. I won't condemn an entire past people for doing animal sacrificing, our kind was so much younger then. I'm sure back in the day it was done with good intentions in mind, but being aware as we are now in this modern age one would think we don't need such a barbaric practice such as animal sacrifice. 

I like to call myself a witch, but I am very amateur. I'm still collecting material and books to learn. Though I do practice a form of protection by naming my succulents after friends, so perhaps my care for the plants will reflect on their well being.

Also I'd be eclectic, since I am not a part of ANY religious denomination and I'm atheist.

[Altastrofae 933]

1 minute ago, Rosebuds said:

I'm not trying to bash the people of the past. What's done is done and there's nothing else to it. I won't condemn an entire past people for doing animal sacrificing, our kind was so much younger then. I'm sure back in the day it was done with good intentions in mind, but being aware as we are now in this modern age one would think we don't need such a barbaric practice such as animal sacrifice. 

I like to call myself a witch, but I am very amateur. I'm still collecting material and books to learn. Though I do practice a form of protection by naming my succulents after friends, so perhaps my care for the plants will reflect on their well being.

Also I'd be eclectic, since I am not a part of ANY religious denomination and I'm atheist.

Oh okay, that makes sense. I'm technically ecclectic myself, but I'm more inclined towards Wicca.

But let me ask you something. What do you use witchcraft for exactly. I mostly use it in a religiously inclined manner as a method of leaning about both myself and the universe through experience rather than pure loore. But you're intentions are not spiritual, so I always failed to see the motivation behind atheist witches.