Theory Is Friendship "Magic"?

[Rainbow Sparkle 70]

Now that the required dr,evil airquoting has been taken care of...

 

On another site, a discussion came up between a few of us bronies about whether or not Friendship is an actual literal force of nature in the show, or in otherwords if it really is "magic" in the sense of being a tangible power. Several of us argue that the show gives more than enough evidence to support that it is indeed a power in Equestria, indeed that its a law of the very fabric of Equestria. Others contend that this is not true, and that we haven't really seen any actual proof that there is a literal magical power or force behind friendship within the confines of the show.

I figured I'd bring the debate here, and get some insight from folks here. Included is some of both sides arguments. The first is the one that brought the debate up.

 

 

 I'm not worked up in the slightest over the gothic thing. Not in an "angry" way anyway. I like
solving these sorts of problems. This is how I have fun with the
worldbuilding. I like to take what we're presented with and figure out
what it likely means, in itself. The most irritated I'll get is when
somebody will try to ruin my fun with "It's just a tv show" or any
variation of that, or, as often happens here, when I try to approach
something seriously and somebody comes in with a joke reply, either a
ridiculous account
or a non-answer. I clearly take fiction more seriously than you do.
"friendship is magic" is not an answer or an explanation of anything to
me. It's just irritating.

 

 

But it is an explanation. Friendship is a goddamn force of nature
in Equestria, as real as gravity or the atomic strong force. It can
tame the very Element of Discord even without it being
weaponized. You say that the friendship formed between the three
advisors could never seriously lead to a real unification of the tribes?
Well I say it could. Of course we can assume that events did not
play out like in the story, it being a looong time ago, but the basic
notion - that friendship is a power that can change the world - is reality in Equestria. It's the goddamn theme of the show, for pity's sake. Don't disrespect friendship.

 

 

 Thirdly, I have some very very highly irritating news for you. In MLP Friendship is Magic, friendship IS
magic. We've seen clear examples of this. Its very clear that emotions
and bonds possess an actual power in the realm of the show. Their bond
with each other (after being reminded of their adventures) was what
allowed Twilight to break free of Discords grip, it was what redeemed
Luna, and heck, we had freaking LOVE prove to be the weapon of choice in
two episodes regarding the big bads!



I hate to break it to you, but sometimes...things are really just what
they appear to be at the surface. Within the confines of the show, there
is no grey area for it. Friendship literally is magic.

 

 

 No it's not. It's just friendship.

It's never "weaponised" except in the loosest of senses. Befriending
Discord isn't some amazing physical elemental process that shows
friendship is anything other than normal friendship.

It's not certain they were even there, or that any of those events
literally happened. Hypothetically such a friendship could lead to a
unification (and it wouldn't require amazing super friendship like you
seem to think), but we are again talking about an extremely stylised
play. Not a historical documentary or reproduction of what happened.
Even within the context of FiM itself, the play is extremely suspect.

It isn't the reality of Equestria anymore than it is in actual reality.

Friendship is the theme of a lot of shows. I'm re-watching Higurashi no
Naku Koro Ni again, and the Friendship theme is far stronger there
than in FiM. That doesn't mean Friendship is an objective physical law, a
constant like gravity, in that anime. It's normal friendship.

In a metaphorical sense.

No we haven't. Unless you mean in a metaphorical sense, in which case, yes we have.

Not anymore than they do in the real world, and in standard fantasy worlds. It is standard in
fantasy to have things like "oh we were destined to meet and be
friends" and "Our friendship can beat this foe." It's metaphorical.
Unless you're going to tell me all the shonen manga have friendship as
an actual power too, which would be silly since they usually acknowledge
it's an inner strength, or strength in numbers, and not amazing literal
magic or power.

A standard plot development in practically every mind-control plot ever.
You remember who you were and you break free. That is essentially the
mind-control metaphor, that's why pretty much every time this happens in
fiction they say things like "don't you remember me?" and "remember who
you are" and "fight it, you're stronger than this."

Luna's predicament was essentially one of friendship in the first place.
Friendship solved a friendship problem, which is not astonishing and is
something that happens in the real world probably a million times a
second, globally. That it was more catastrophic for Luna is probably an
issue of her being so magically powerful.

It's not a weapon, it's a fuel source. Emotions powering magic is
something as old as time, and in modern fiction people generally make
magic work that way.

I agree. You're the one who's deciding there must be a deeper literal
"friendship is magic" facet at work here. Nothing you said would have
gone any differently were the show's title "Look at These Ponies" or
something (although I have a strong suspicion were that the case, you
and I wouldn't be having this discussion because it would never have
entered your head that friendship was supposed to be literally magic).
Or if this was the real world just with magic. Or if this was Harry
Potter. Heck, in Harry Potter you'd have a better claim because we've
seen Love do something magical just by its existence (well, and other
things I guess). We've never seen an equivalent in FiM, but we would
expect such a thing if "Friendship is literally magic." We never see it.
If we don't see it, it's not there.

Within the confines of the show, there is no grey area for it.
Friendship is metaphorically magic. I've yet to see friendship do
anything friendship can't normally do in the normal world. I've never
seen any emotion do anything that emotions aren't normally said to do
with magic in practically every modern work of fiction ever. There is nothing special
about friendship as friendship in FiM. It's just normal friendship. If
it was special, we'd see it do something that isn't incredibly banal and
normal for fantasy and the real world.

 

 

So, what is the consensus of this board? Is Friendship literally magic in the show, or is it a metaphorical thing?

[~Master~ Button Mash 2,307]

Friendship is a variation of love, which as we see with the Crystal Empire, IS indeed a fundamental force in Equestria. So I'd say yes, friendship is magic.

[Zygen 6,066]

Yeah Friendship is magic, For sure in the show. The Elements of harmony themselves run off the power of the elements of Friendship and their Friendship between each other(The mane 6) Not to mention the other times such as in Heartswarming eve where Clover the Clever releases a heart that is formed by the magic of their friendship.

 

Its also of course magical in another sense as it brings a magical happiness to the ponies in Equestria. I'd also argue it can do the same thing in the real world of applied well.

[Scootalove 10,689]

Friendship pretty much ties the bonds of Equestria together. It helps the Mane 6 band together to take on any obstacle, and pretty much helps everypony in need of danger. So yes, I'd have to say Friendship is undeniably Magic.

[~Lawful Sturdy Wing~ 522]

Age of Equestria lore here! Yes friendship is indeed a tangible force within the confines of AoE. The interactions between sentiant beings is a magical connection governed over by "unity" and her subjects Celestia and Luna, all intelligent beings are bound through unity, and their interactions produce actual effects. So yes!

 

Canon wise? It would seem so

[Reversalx 129]

Friendship is very much magic in the show, and the EofH are the physical manifestations of that. The mane6 have special connections with each other that allow the elements to be usable, and cast away evil.

 

On a special note, the mane6 may not even have to be friends to use the EofH, LOL. If i remember correctly, in Discord's first appearance, the mane6 were corrupted and their friendships, arguable, have been severed, yet the EofH was still seen to be working (but failed due to the lack of Rainbow Dash). All speculation, though.

 

One can argue that friendship is merely a gateway to a greater power, rather then it being magic itself; though there isn't enough background information to make the call, in my opinion.

[Naught Important 434]

I literally wrote a paper explaining how "Friendship" can actually be taken as "Magic," Where I explained a bunch of science-y stuff. Also, I agree with everypony else.

[Harmonic Revelations 8,835]

Well, I first started to take the whole "Friendship is magic" literally during "The Return of Harmony" when I learned that Twilight's opposite was isolation. The opposite of isolation is friendship, Twilight's element is magic, so that must mean Friendship = Magic.

[Spectrum 117 6]

Oh God.
I'm just going to spell this out nice and slow so you can do the same next time you see the people who participated in this debate:
That's. Why. It's. Called. FICTION.

It's FICTION. Therefore EVERYTHING metaphorical in the real world is REALITY and TANGIBLE in the FICTIONAL world.

The definition of FICTION is literally: something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story.
Made up, guys. It's something all the debating in the world can't change unless you change the story itself to fit real-world situations, in which case, there wouldn't be any talking, multicolored equines ruling the world, or friendship between them, for that matter.

The simple answer to end this debate once and for all is, whether or not you think it's a non-answer: IT'S JUST A TV SHOW.

So stop arguing over something you can't change anyhow!

[Betez 1,734]

You know, I have been wondering why it's called Friendahip is Magic, bit I think I just got itbright as I am typing this.

 

Twilight's element is magic, no? But, as powerful as she is, alone she possesses no true power. only with the help if her friends, and the combining of all their elements can they really have true power. So friendship is what makes magic happen. Friendship is magic.

[Rainbow Sparkle 70]

Oh God.

I'm just going to spell this out nice and slow so you can do the same next time you see the people who participated in this debate:

That's. Why. It's. Called. FICTION.

It's FICTION. Therefore EVERYTHING metaphorical in the real world is REALITY and TANGIBLE in the FICTIONAL world.

The definition of FICTION is literally: something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story.

Made up, guys. It's something all the debating in the world can't change unless you change the story itself to fit real-world situations, in which case, there wouldn't be any talking, multicolored equines ruling the world, or friendship between them, for that matter.

The simple answer to end this debate once and for all is, whether or not you think it's a non-answer: IT'S JUST A TV SHOW.

So stop arguing over something you can't change anyhow!

 

Unfortunately, one of the bronies who was part of this debate not only takes fiction very seriously but he also ignores the just a tv show comment as well.

[hawkflame 3,310]

 

Oh God.

I'm just going to spell this out nice and slow so you can do the same next time you see the people who participated in this debate:

That's. Why. It's. Called. FICTION.

It's FICTION. Therefore EVERYTHING metaphorical in the real world is REALITY and TANGIBLE in the FICTIONAL world.

The definition of FICTION is literally: something[/size] [/size]feigned,[/size] [/size]invented,[/size] [/size]or[/size] [/size]imagined;[/size] [/size]a[/size] [/size]made-up[/size] [/size]story.

Made up, guys. It's something all the debating in the world can't change unless you change the story itself to fit real-world situations, in which case, there wouldn't be any talking, multicolored equines ruling the world, or friendship between them, for that matter.[/size]

The simple answer to end this debate once and for all is, whether or not you think it's a non-answer: IT'S JUST A TV SHOW.[/size]

So stop arguing over something you can't change anyhow![/size]

 

hey now, just because a work is fiction doesn't mean we can't get into interesting debates about the foundations of that world and how it works.  Isn't that the whole point of discussing the show to begin with?

Edited February 11, 2013 by hawkflame

[Spectrum 117 6]

  

hey now, just because a work is fiction doesn't mean we can't get into interesting debates about the foundations of that world and how it works.  Isn't that the whole point of discussing the show to begin with?

Actually, discussing the show to begin with isn't debating whether the contents of the show are tangible or not, unless that's some sort of science experiment they want a certain character to test. Discussing what to do to make a new show or a new episode for an existing show is coming up with ideas, not debating on old ones unless someone suggested an old idea as a new one. There's your difference.

[decoherence 183]

 

It's FICTION. Therefore EVERYTHING metaphorical in the real world is REALITY and TANGIBLE in the FICTIONAL world.

 

You hit the nail on the head, at least regarding MLP. Let's think about what this means...

 

First of all, regarding whether friendship actually is magic and a tangible force in the show, I think the most obvious example that it is, is any time the Elements are used. It's laid out perfectly clearly at the end of the second episode when Twilight realizes that she has friends, causing the spark that activated the Elements. As far as I'm concerned, that lays the question to rest.

 

But the reason I quoted Spectrum is to restate it backwards: Tangible things in a fictional world are often metaphors for intangible things in the real world. When someone asks me if friendship is magic, out here in this hard place, I say 'yes, god, yes' and it is real and it is a force with tangible effects just like gravity.

 

Personally, I think that's a more interesting question. How is friendship magic, out here IRL?

 

There you go, Spectrum. Now you're roped in to the discussion and I expect an answer <3

[Spectrum 117 6]

Oh boy. lol

I believe friendship in the form of magic IRL appears as the chain of events that occur due to a bond between one person and another, from the smallest change in attitude, to the largest change such as unity between nations, which is exactly how North America was formed: Democracy and the unity of the people of Earth. 
As another example: The Allied Forces wouldn't have won WW2 had they not joined together against a larger power. This effect also applies to S1 Ep 1 and 2 and S2 Ep 1 and 2 of MLP, in which, had Twilight not met her friends, there would be no harmony within Equestria.

There you go. Can you untie me now? xD

You hit the nail on the head, at least regarding MLP. Let's think about what this means...

 

 

 

But the reason I quoted Spectrum is to restate it backwards: Tangible things in a fictional world are often metaphors for intangible things in the real world. When someone asks me if friendship is magic, out here in this hard place, I say 'yes, god, yes' and it is real and it is a force with tangible effects just like gravity.

 

Personally, I think that's a more interesting question. How is friendship magic, out here IRL?

[Replicant 113]

The characters can't seem to solve problems until some element of friendship is reinforced. On that basis, I would say friendship is "magic" because its presence automatically leads to the characters' success.

 

You know, I have been wondering why it's called Friendahip is Magic, bit I think I just got itbright as I am typing this.

Twilight's element is magic, no? But, as powerful as she is, alone she possesses no true power. only with the help if her friends, and the combining of all their elements can they really have true power. So friendship is what makes magic happen. Friendship is magic.

Also, this... the show makes a point to emphasize how necessary the presence of Twilight's friends are to her success.

[decoherence 183]

I believe friendship in the form of magic IRL appears as the chain of events that occur due to a bond between one person and another

 

Well I could not have put it better myself! Once again I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

There you go. Can you untie me now? xD

 

Well... Yes, I suppose you can go now 

 

cheers!

[A Glimpse of Everything 129]

It depends. I try to look at life as if I were a spectator. I'm not claiming that I'm perfect, or that I myself am not a part of this world. But, I try my best to try and look through someone else's eyes, and I try to imagine what life is like for them, and how I would react to that.

 

If I were raised in an environment where I had no friends, a desolate relationship with my parents or siblings, and I was bullied in school and such. And then, a person came, one that finally showed kindness towards me, and one that cared and would help me through times of hardship. It would help my emotional position by a considerable amount.

 

Therefore, metaphorically, friendship can be 'magic' in another person's life.

[poniesforfun 716]

It would be interesting if a certain evil leader of an evil nation appears and attempts to build his own "Friendship is Magic" as a metaphor for developing his own nuclear arsenal to threaten Canterlot but realize it doesn't work even though he got all the specs down. Because it's not really a tangible form of power. It's power is undisputed however capable of taking down magically powerful enemies like Discord and Nightmare Moon. It's like you don't buck with Friendship.

Edited February 15, 2013 by poniesforfun

[Batbrony 16,055]

First of all, I couldn't help but laugh when I realized that nopony's actually ever started a thread about this until now!  Kudos! 

 

Second, I do actually think that friendship is actual magic in the show, and I'll provide an explanation as to why in the space below  with a response from an earlier thread I'd made that focused more on the importance of friendship in Equestria's history.

 

Explanation:

 

This realization in turn led me to re-evaluate the importance of friendship in the show itself, and develop a second point that made me realize even more than I had previously that "MLP" is a fantastically well-written and very smart show. As I previously stated, "Hearth's Warming Eve" teaches the ponies and, in turn, the audience, that the foundation upon which all order and harmony in Equestria rests is friendship. This, although maybe not apparent at first glance, considering the first 1 1/2 seasons had already dwelt upon the magic of friendship extensively, lifts the importance of friendship in the show itself to a whole new level!!! Before, we'd seen that friendship was simply the binding element between the Mane Six, and while certainly a powerful element, in that through its power they were able to wield the Elements of Harmony, its relevance was relegated to the present. "Hearth's Warming Eve," however, showed that throughout history and in all times, past, present, and future, friendship had been, is, and always will be the binding element upon which all harmony and order in Equestrian society is established!

Friendship, essentially, allows Equestria to be what Plato in his "Republic" calls the "best city". First of all, in "The Republic," Socrates defines justice as people minding their own business, literally, each person sticking to doing what they do best, to the benefit of themselves and society. Prior to Equestria's founding, while the three races of ponies certainly stuck to their tasks, they only did it for themselves, and only cooperated with each other at the bare minimum out of the utmost necessity. It could not be said that they had one "city" even (i.e. one society); they all had their own distinct cultures and societies. The pegasi were essentially timocrats in that they placed the greatest value on honor and martial glory, the unicorns were more or less oligarchs with their love of wealth, riches, and gems, despite their access to great knowledge as well, and the earth ponies were basically (degenerated) democrats (in the sense of the classical definition of democracy) in that they placed a great deal of value on equality (more so than freedom, and as such were all equally poor) and clearly had elected representatives (i.e. Chancellor Puddinghead... like I said, degenerated democracy. HA!  ).

However, after the events of the first Hearth's Warming Eve, all three races, due to friendship, truly united and established one society in Equestria, a society where each and everypony does whatever they are best at, mind's their own business, and as a result, both the individual and society are benefitted. This is justice according to Plato and Socrates! Furthermore, it can also be said that in many ways Celestia and Luna are essentially the guardians, or philosopher kings (rather philosopher queens), that Socrates speaks of in "The Republic" as well, for while they certainly allow each and everypony to mind their own business, their own business appears to be ruling the state on account of their wisdom, for they have made their business knowing truth and knowledge, which is the business of the philosopher. In Equestria, logically, the highest knowledge and truth must surely be that which has to do with the magic of friendship, since that is the very foundation of Equestrian society, and who other than Celestia and Luna have been shown to have greater knowledge of the magic of friendship? Therefore, it can be accurately stated that, due to knowledge of friendship, along with all other things, Celestia and Luna are Equestria's philosopher queens, and in conclusion, friendship as the theme of "MLP: FiM" is even more important to this show than I even previously thought it was!!! Seriously, when I came to these conclusions, my mind was blown away!!!

Edited February 15, 2013 by Batbrony

[Appetite4Democracy 452]

Friendship, love, hate, sadness, etc. All are magic. Emotions in general are magic. They are used in many shows as a tangible power.

 

Changelings feast upon love energy, so it must be a tangible power.