Fanfiction and Kindle Worlds | Money off of fanfics!

[lardbobobo 1,591]

So Amazon completely out of nowhere launched this thing called Kindle Worlds in which fans are able to write officially licensed fanfics and make some profit off of them. As of right now they only have the licenses for three TV shows, but they have promised that they're going to try and secure licenses for more as things go on.

 

Basically as of right now once a fanfic is published, 20% of the money goes to the author of the fanfic where the rest of it goes to Amazon and the holder of the copyrighted material. I know that 20% is kind of stingy but I also think that a lot of this is just Warner Bros being Warner Bros as right now that's the only company Amazon has on board with them and that surprises me because even though this is kind of stingy this is waaaaay more kind than I've heard that company ever being.

 

But anyway, considering the massive amounts of ponyfanfics that exist on the internet that I'd actually probably argue surpass every other fandom out there I really doubt that ponies aren't coming to this service eventually... Especially if they said they're gonna try and get video games and stuff on here! I think this would be a welcomed change as a lot of fanfic writers put an extreme amount of thought into their writing and supporting them financially for their time to write something great for our own entertainment is excellent.

 

God damn it guys quit owning me whenever I post my views. I'm gonna freaking own you guys one of these days and I shall be the one laughing... I think

 

What do you guys think about this?

Edited May 23, 2013 by Lord Bababa

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea. Bad bad idea. I don't want fan-fiction to become something I have to friggin' pay for, or give companies a excuse to start pulling C&D on fanfic outside the platform. 

Edited May 23, 2013 by Shoboni

[lardbobobo 1,591]

 give companies a excuse to start pulling C&D on fanfic outside the platform. 

They won't, though. The reason I say this is that while people have thrown in Cease and Desist orders in the past, it's extremely rare for fanfiction. That and Time Warner hasn't sent out any C&D yet... and they're the freaking king of doing that.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Lord Bababa

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

They won't, though. The reason I say this is that while people have thrown in Cease and Desist orders in the past, it's extremely rare for fanfiction. That and Time Warner hasn't sent out any C&D yet... and they're the freaking king of doing that.

 

Yes, and they didn't have a official channel for it and a way to make money off of it to use as a excuse, either. Now they could say "why should we let you self-publish when we could make you use out platform and make us money?"

 

Publishers already take advantage of the creators to make money, that don't need to be taking advantage of the fans hard work too. 

[lardbobobo 1,591]

Yes, and they didn't have a official channel for it and a way to make money off of it to use as a excuse, either. Now they could say "why should we let you self-publish when we could make you use out platform and make us money?"

yes they could but, once again, I really doubt that they will. Nobody really cares about fanfiction unless profit is being made off of it, which now that this service exists and provides official licenses I think it'll be great.

 

Also once again I would gladly support being able to give the writers of fanfic some money because there is a lot of time and effort put into things and I would gladly pay them some money.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Lord Bababa

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

yes they could but, once again, I really doubt that they will. Nobody really cares about fanfiction unless profit is being made off of it, which now that this service exists and provides official licenses I think it'll be great.

 

Also once again I would gladly support being able to give the writers of fanfic some money because there is a lot of time and effort put into things and I would gladly pay them some money.

 

Once you've seen the massive amount of badfic I have, and realize how much you have to dig through before finding a good one, you won't like the idea of paying for them all, either.

 

In the entire time I've been into it, I've found exactly one good Highlander fic, and it was a crossover with X-Files. 

[lardbobobo 1,591]

Once you've seen the massive amount of badfic I have, and realize how much you have to dig through before finding a good one, you won't like the idea of paying for them all, either.

This is why reviews exist. I too have dug through several crappy novels, but once I started reading what people were saying I stopped wasting my money on crappy books and actually started to enjoy reading. Amazon has a nice little review section put up that anyone can view. 

 

Fanfics are the same way with me. IF there's good reviews I'll check it out if bad nope screw it I ain't reading it.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

This is why reviews exist. I too have dug through several crappy novels, but once I started reading what people were saying I stopped wasting my money on crappy books and actually started to enjoy reading. Amazon has a nice little review section put up that anyone can view. 

 

Fanfics are the same way with me. IF there's good reviews I'll check it out if bad nope screw it I ain't reading it.

 

I still stand by this being a horrible and greedy idea. There's a reason why I don't link people to FF.net and tell them to have at it, because of all the down-right embarrassing fanfic. 

Edited May 23, 2013 by Shoboni

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 777]

Basically as of right now once a fanfic is published, 20% of the money goes to the author of the fanfic where the rest of it goes to Amazon and the holder of the copyrighted material. I know that 20% is kind of stingy but I also think that a lot of this is just Warner Bros being Warner Bros as right now that's the only company Amazon has on board with them and that surprises me because even though this is kind of stingy this is waaaaay more kind than I've heard that company ever being.

 

This is a terrible idea that Amazon is doing, I just don't see an actual market for this and I have no idea what's going through their heads when they thought the conception of this was good. Besides, how the hell do you protect something like this? How do you prevent users from simply copy/pasting the text itself, making what shouldn't be charged free once more? Sure, you could use images to prevent the whole copy/pasta issue, but nothing stops me from doing print screen.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Accellerant

[Winona the Dog 1,981]

I respect fan fic writers as itb does take a lot of time. Not mention I'm a writer myself. The main purpose of writing fan fiction is to get a sense of accomplishment from making something. People mostly write stories because it's something they like doing even though they know they wouldn't get paid for it at the end.

 

Honestly I think it should stay that way.

[Zygen 6,065]

Idk, I feel like it'll cause a lot of trouble, more then it's worth. And I certainly dont want it to come to having to pay for fanfics.

 

Plus If someone does make money on a fanfic hasbro might get angry. I guess long as they can't without a lisence though, just feel its not worth it.

 

Although I'm not a fanfic writer so idk, I dont think people are going to be able to make money off writing fanfics for mlp since hasbro probaly won't allow it.

[MadPointer 75]

I think fan fic writers should carefully read the terms of use before clicking "I agree" in case there are some nasty surprises. It doesn't even have to be money related.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

So, I looked at the submission rule, my take on each one:

 

 

• Pornography: We don't accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.(Ca
• Offensive Content: We don’t accept offensive content, including but not limited to racial slurs, excessively graphic or violent material, or excessive use of foul language.(Tackling both these at once, it looks like a good idea on paper to establish these rules, but what about works that the source material contains these things, especially the later for horror works. Does that mean people can't have things lopped off in a Highlander fic, despite that happening in even the prime-time Tv Show?)

 

• Illegal and Infringing Content: We take violations of laws and proprietary rights very seriously. It is the authors' responsibility to ensure that their content doesn't violate laws or copyright, trademark, privacy, publicity, or other rights.(I really have no idea what this means when the fanfic does that by nature)

 

• Poor Customer Experience: We don't accept books that provide a poor customer experience. Examples include poorly formatted books and books with misleading titles, cover art, or product descriptions. We reserve the right to determine whether content provides a poor customer experience.(Nice rule)
•  
• Excessive Use of Brands: We don’t accept the excessive use of brand names or the inclusion of brand names for paid advertising or promotion.(Define Excessive?)

 

• Crossover: No crossovers from other Worlds are permitted, meaning your work may not include elements of any copyright-protected book, movie, or other property outside of the elements of this World.(So, you're alienating about have of all fanfic, then)?

 

   It also says: 

 

when you submit your story in a World, you are granting Amazon Publishing an exclusive license to the story and all the original elements you include in that story. This means that your story and all the new elements must stay within the applicable World. We will allow Kindle Worlds authors to build on each other's ideas and elements. We will also give the World Licensor a license to use your new elements and incorporate them into other works without further compensation to you.

 

and:

 

World Licensors have provided Content Guidelines for each World, and your work must follow these Content Guidelines. We strongly encourage you to read the Content Guidelines before you commit the time and effort to write.

 

 

 

So, yeah, the fine print almounts to "we're going giving you so many limitations it will make your head spin and give you the shaft as far as author's rights"

I think fan fic writers should carefully read the terms of use before clicking "I agree" in case there are some nasty surprises. It doesn't even have to be money related.

 

Speak of the devil, that's exactly the case, see my above post for the full run down of what the terms of use page says about the rules of the service. 

Edited May 23, 2013 by Shoboni

[RockinRarity 1,605]

If Amazon promised to only have good fanfiction on their website to pay for, I would totally buy fanfiction and read it on my Kindle.

 

Two things that I hate about reading fanfiction:

Reading it on a computer screen

Sifting through an endless amount of garbage before finding something decent.

 

The Amazon World thing would solve my problems, if they are able to pay super close attention to everything that gets submitted.

 

I may also actually finish unfinished fanfiction.

 

Guess we will have to see what happens.

[lardbobobo 1,591]

Welp it appears I made a fool of myself in this thread. Just posting in here again because some wackjob I had added on skype sent me all sorts of funny threats regarding what I said in here which while it was funny it made me realize that "hey I made the thread and I am clearly in the wrong here.". I was wrong; you guys win this round.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Lord Bababa

[NavelColt 22,876]

I don't see the point in it, seeing that written text is even easier to post somewhere for free than music, which is often required payment. This is the internet, folks. We might as well make a new amendment to the Rules of the Internet that says, 'If it requires payment, you can find it for free through Google, somewhere.'

[MadPointer 75]

I don't see the point in it, seeing that written text is even easier to post somewhere for free than music, which is often required payment. This is the internet, folks. We might as well make a new amendment to the Rules of the Internet that says, 'If it requires payment, you can find it for free through Google, somewhere.'

 

It got me thinking is fanfiction different from music in this regard? I know some musicians sell remixes on Bandcamp. I wonder how Bandcamp works around licensing requirement.

[RockinRarity 1,605]

Welp it appears I made a fool of myself in this thread. Just posting in here again because some wackjob I had added on skype sent me all sorts of funny threats regarding what I said in here which while it was funny it made me realize that "hey I made the thread and I am clearly in the wrong here.". I was wrong; you guys win this round.

I don't think that there is a whole lot to be wrong about here... and the stuff that can be right or wrong, well, hasn't even happened yet.

 

Doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong anyways. This is an interesting topic.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

I don't think that there is a whole lot to be wrong about here... and the stuff that can be right or wrong, well, hasn't even happened yet.

 

Doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong anyways. This is an interesting topic.

 

My problem with the system is how bad it screws the authors over. Not only do you only get a 20%(oops, I guess it's 35%, the 20% is for something else) cut, but it also forces strict content limitations and forces you to give up all rights to the original characters and ideas you use in the fic. It literally says the company can use your story, original elements and all without paying you for the new content. 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Shoboni

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Welp it appears I made a fool of myself in this thread. Just posting in here again because some wackjob I had added on skype sent me all sorts of funny threats regarding what I said in here which while it was funny it made me realize that "hey I made the thread and I am clearly in the wrong here.". I was wrong; you guys win this round.

 

You weren't egregiously wrong. There were some aspects that didn't occur to you at first. That's natural for a debate, so don't beat yourself up over it, or let others beat you up. 

 

It's neat idea, to be honest. But it's also an extremely abusable idea, with lots of gotchas. And from what @@Shoboni found in the submission rules, Amazon's already gone some distance down the bad path of claiming ownership of any fanfic published under their service.

[RockinRarity 1,605]

My problem with the system is how bad it screws the authors over. Non only do you only get 20% cut, but it also forces strict content limitations and forces you to give up all rights to the original characters and ideas you use in the fic. It literally says the company can use you story, original elements and all without paying you for the new content.

Huh... must have missed that last part. In that case it's too bad that they are putting up those kind of tight rules. I think that with something like fanfiction the rules need to be tight anyway, but I wonder if there is a better way to make up the rules. I am not a legal expert, so I don't have any solutions.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

Huh... must have missed that last part. In that case it's too bad that they are putting up those kind of tight rules. I think that with something like fanfiction the rules need to be tight anyway, but I wonder if there is a better way to make up the rules. I am not a legal expert, so I don't have any solutions.

 

I might one mistread, I guess it's 35%, but that's still horrible the rest of the problems still stand. You pretty much have the sell your soul to them to get on the platform. 

 

Huh... must have missed that last part. In that case it's too bad that they are putting up those kind of tight rules. I think that with something like fanfiction the rules need to be tight anyway, but I wonder if there is a better way to make up the rules. I am not a legal expert, so I don't have any solutions.

 

Letting you retain full rights over you're work(making it so Amazon only has the rights to sell the work), and putting clause that the creators of the parent work have to get permission and credit you for using your original elements would be start. 

 

I don't even care about money, I just want to get credit for creating something and be able to keep the rights to my own damn OC content and be able to use it later in a non-fanfic work in some-form if I wish. 

[Mr. Jaguar 1,402]

So, I looked at the submission rule, my take on each one:

 

 

• Pornography: We don't accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.(Ca
• Offensive Content: We don’t accept offensive content, including but not limited to racial slurs, excessively graphic or violent material, or excessive use of foul language.(Tackling both these at once, it looks like a good idea on paper to establish these rules, but what about works that the source material contains these things, especially the later for horror works. Does that mean people can't have things lopped off in a Highlander fic, despite that happening in even the prime-time Tv Show?)

 

• Illegal and Infringing Content: We take violations of laws and proprietary rights very seriously. It is the authors' responsibility to ensure that their content doesn't violate laws or copyright, trademark, privacy, publicity, or other rights.(I really have no idea what this means when the fanfic does that by nature)

 

• Poor Customer Experience: We don't accept books that provide a poor customer experience. Examples include poorly formatted books and books with misleading titles, cover art, or product descriptions. We reserve the right to determine whether content provides a poor customer experience.(Nice rule)
•  
• Excessive Use of Brands: We don’t accept the excessive use of brand names or the inclusion of brand names for paid advertising or promotion.(Define Excessive?)

 

• Crossover: No crossovers from other Worlds are permitted, meaning your work may not include elements of any copyright-protected book, movie, or other property outside of the elements of this World.(So, you're alienating about have of all fanfic, then)?

 

   It also says: 

 

when you submit your story in a World, you are granting Amazon Publishing an exclusive license to the story and all the original elements you include in that story. This means that your story and all the new elements must stay within the applicable World. We will allow Kindle Worlds authors to build on each other's ideas and elements. We will also give the World Licensor a license to use your new elements and incorporate them into other works without further compensation to you.

 

and:

 

World Licensors have provided Content Guidelines for each World, and your work must follow these Content Guidelines. We strongly encourage you to read the Content Guidelines before you commit the time and effort to write.

 

 

 

So, yeah, the fine print almounts to "we're going giving you so many limitations it will make your head spin and give you the shaft as far as author's rights"

 

 

Speak of the devil, that's exactly the case, see my above post for the full run down of what the terms of use page says about the rules of the service. 

 

 

So basically the fanfic has to work with the canon lore of the original author's universe? Well, that's probably a crap ton of fanfics that will never be allowed to published. I guess I see the logic, the original author only wants stuff that adds onto his or her lore will not contradicting it, but eh, when I'm reading fanfiction I don't care that it contradicts canon, because it's fanfiction. It's a good idea tho, the author get's more lore added to his or her fictional world without having to write it themselves, and they get to control what gets in and what doesn't, AND they get to use that new lore if they want for their own future works.

 

Sucks for all the fanfic writers who want their stories published but they can't because it contradicts the original author's canon, but they could just write their own fictional setting and characters and apply whatever plot they had in their fanfic, and get that published. Maybe. You'd be getting 100% of the profits too.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Mr. Jaguar

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

 the author get's more lore added to his or her fictional world without having to write it themselves, and they get to control what gets in and what doesn't, AND they get to use that new lore if they want for their own future works.

 

 

 

Yes, and the author gets the shafted because the IP holder doesn't even have to so much as credit them for the new elements, and they retain no ownership of the fanfic's they submit. 

[RockinRarity 1,605]

I might one mistread, I guess it's 35%, but that's still horrible the rest of the problems still stand. You pretty much have the sell your soul to them to get on the platform.

 

 

 

Letting you retain full rights over you're work(making it so Amazon only has the rights to sell the work), and putting clause that the creators of the parent work have to get permission and credit you for using your original elements would be start.

 

I don't even care about money, I just want to get credit for creating something and be able to keep the rights to my own damn OC content and be able to use it later in a non-fanfic work in some-form if I wish.

I wonder if Amazon can have feedback for all of this. Make a logical argument that compares what regular publishing companies do in regards to how the publishing company and the author hold the rights to stories and ideas. Again, with fanfiction it does get tricky because the worlds and characters belong to someone else entirely, but there may be a way to work around that.

 

I do think that allowing people to publish fanfiction is a step in the right direction when it comes to out outdated copyright laws and the way technology and the Internet have to work around them, but if Amazon doesn't improve what they have in regards to this particular setup, we go nowhere with that issue.