Celestia: Princess or Queen?

[Dark Qiviut 22,213]

Although her appearances have been sparse over the past season, Princess Celestia is nevertheless one of the most prominent characters. She's the one Twilight idolizes and the reason why she worked her hardest to enter The School for Gifted Unicorns. She wants to be as great as Celestia, if not better, and will try her hardest to achieve.

 

But before the show started, there was a concept of Celestia that was rejected by Hasbro because they thought having a Princess may equal more toy sales.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The image in the spoilers in Faust's sketch of Celestia as a Queen. Instead of a Princess, Faust wanted to break the mold of clichés in fairytale/fantasy marketing and television by introducing a benevolent Queen in the FIM canon. Hasbro, however, deemed it too much of a risk.

 

The fact that Celestia was supposed to be a Queen was fantastic, and how Hasbro recommended Faust to backtrack the idea is royally disappointing. Part of what FIM is about is to turn the typical fairytale trope upside-down in the form of more unique, fresh ideas. Queens in fairytales and fantasies are very uncommon because of the decade-old marketing perception that Princesses are protagonists while Queens are villains. Queen Celestia would be great to break the mold and send a message to families, especially ones of little girls, that it's possible to have a benevolent queen in family-friendly fairytales, yet still not only be popular as a character, but also a toy. I love the idea of Queen Celestia much more than Princess Celestia and wished the concept was fulfilled.

 

What about you? Conceptually, do you like Celestia as a princess or a queen? Explain why below.

 

P.S.: To encourage discussion better, I won't include a poll.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Dark Qiviut

[Mywas 687]

I would like her as queen. For the reasons that you mentioned. Why should ALL Queens be evil? Thats pretty stupid if you ask me.

Also if she was a Queen it would confirm that shes the highest pony in canterlot. But right now she has the same rank as Cadence and Blueblood.

 

Something tells me that Hasbro seems to follow Disneys every step about cartoons for little girls, because it fears that if they tried there own way The Soccer moms who are used to Disneys style would complain.

[Scootalove 10,684]

I would prefer Celestia as a Queen. The stereotype of all queens being evil, is something that has been around for a while. Not all queens have to be evil, instead Hasbro rejected a great idea.

[CornBreadGang 513]

I prefer to have Celestia as a queen. Why? Because apparently "all queens are evil". I hate that stereotype. Plus, I've always thought of Celestia as a queen.

Bur who knows? Maybe Celestia is her last name and princess is her first name.

[Mr Dash 1,818]

I would much prefer her as Queen Celestia. It sounds better, and it would help break the mold of queens as villains that Disney pretty much created (or at least had a big hand in it). Even though Celestia is called a princess, I feel like that her character that Lauren wanted is still there. She feels more like a queen to me than a princess.

 

It's too bad Hasbro rejected the idea, but then again, Hasbro is a business and to them having a character called Queen Celestia might deter sales. But it would of been great if Hasbro didn't fear the stigma of queen.

[dekutree64 711]

It all depends on your definitions of the words. Ponies have lots of minor language variations compared to the real world, so it's perfectly fine for me if "princess" means something a little different to them than it does to us.

 

The way she acts and is treated is more consistent with "queen" in the real world, but we really don't have anything equivalent, because none of us can survive for 1000+ years. So "goddess" may be the more accurate term by real world standards.

 

I kind of prefer the sound of princess. Plus there's all the tyrant Celestia stuff in the fandom. If she had been called queen, bronies would make up even more negative things about her, and then whine about it in relation to the evil queen stereotype.

 

In-show, I like that she doesn't have a higher title than Luna/Cadence/Twilight, even though she acts like the big boss of them. Gives her a more humble appearance, and hopefully is literal as well, that she doesn't have any higher authority than them to command the guards and such.

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

@@Dark Qiviut, As you said, and I agree, it would have been a good thing to let Celestia be the queen of Equestria. Mostly because of the reasons you mentioned, I think. It was a waste of potential and could have been a good way to actually be "brave" and act against conventions in the Disney-shaped land of children entertainment.

 

But let's also see it from a different perspective. The benefits of her being a princess. It's one of the things that still helped the show to alter the image of princesses in opposite to fairytales and other things in pop-culture. I don't know what's better. Do that with queens or with princesses? Of course, that could have been done with Luna only then and other movies and shows already did that, but still...

 

And we don't know how the relation between Celestia and Luna would work if Celestia was a queen. Maybe a bit too imbalanced. But the latter is just my opinion, of course.

[Katana 298]

The humorous take: She's essentially a Queen, and was coronated as such but using her dictatorial powers, demanded everyone refer to her as Princess, since it sounds nicer. Anyone who questions this is banished.

[Commander_PonyShep 349]

I would've liked Princess Celestia, and in some regard Luna, Cadence, and even Twilight to be queens.  The reason is because "queen" denotes being above and beyond everyone else, compared to the word "princess", which subordinates a female to a higher ruler.

 

Even to this day, business executives like the ones from Hasbro are stuck in this regressive notion that all women are, and should be, subordinate to men.  They're also stuck in the notion that if any time a woman was a "queen", it means that she's dominant over men, and that would be a bad thing to said men.  Yes, it's more marketable to denote princesses as the protagonist, and queens as the antagonists.  But had Hasbro allowed Lauren Faust and her writing staff to let Celestia remain a queen, I would've accepted Twilight Sparkle becoming a leader to all of Equestria, but as a queen rather than a princess.

 

I mean, Twilight became a princess through hard work and effort (though, ironically, it was her friends who did most of the brunt work, while Twilight herself barely did anything).  Shouldn't that mean she earned the title of queen rather than princess?

[Princess Periwinkle 3,774]

Even to this day, business executives like the ones from Hasbro are stuck in this regressive notion that all women are, and should be, subordinate to men.  They're also stuck in the notion that if any time a woman was a "queen", it means that she's dominant over men, and that would be a bad thing to said men.  Yes, it's more marketable to denote princesses as the protagonist, and queens as the antagonists.  But had Hasbro allowed Lauren Faust and her writing staff to let Celestia remain a queen, I would've accepted Twilight Sparkle becoming a leader to all of Equestria, but as a queen rather than a princess.

 

This is not true. The actual reason Equestria has princesses and not queens is due to the fact that in most little kids' stories (think Disney) the queens are evil and the Princess is the protagonist.

 

In my mind the term "Princess" in Equestria is identical to the word "Queen" on Earth. I don't have a big problem with the terminology.

[Smarts 1,621]

I like the idea of Celestia being a queen instead of a princess. It would have definitely broken the stereotype of all queens being evil. Also, Queen Celestia sounds awesome. It has a nice ring to it.

[Genepool 224]

I would like her as queen. For the reasons that you mentioned. Why should ALL Queens be evil? Thats pretty stupid if you ask me.

Also if she was a Queen it would confirm that shes the highest pony in canterlot. But right now she has the same rank as Cadence and Blueblood.

 

Something tells me that Hasbro seems to follow Disneys every step about cartoons for little girls, because it fears that if they tried there own way The Soccer moms who are used to Disneys style would complain.

 

Well, Disney isn't too clean when it comes to their princesses.  I caught the tail end of something, didn't follow it through, about that Brave movie.  They took the main character/protagonist/heroine and "fixed/doll'd her up a bit" which caused some people to into a bit of a flurry. 

 

As with Queens, there was a queen and king in the Sleeping Beauty movie if I remember right.  To be honest, I like Celestia as a princess vs a queen.  If she were introduced as a queen in the beginning however, I wouldn't have any problem with it.  I want to see Hasbro branch out, but I guess they want to follow Disney.  If that is the case, I believe Disney has a current total of 9 to 10 princesses which trumps Hasbros 4 with miss pretty, pretty Princess Twilight Sparkle being added.  If they add in Twilight's friends as princesses, it'll cause a crap storm #1, but it will flush out the ranks to 9. 

 

Part of me expects Princess Skyla to make an appearence to add another princess to the whole thing.  Each season seems to add a new princess with Princess Luna coming back in S1, Princess Mi Amore Cadenza (Cadence) being add in at the end of S2, and Twilight's little ascension at the end of S3.  Either Skyla will make an appearence, we get distant princess from another land, or one of Twilight's friends might ascend if not all of them (maybe some element's of harmony thing as Twilight shares her power with her friends to represent her devotion to them, blah blah blah).

[NocturnalTwilight 32]

I would rather her be a Queen, but I'm okay with her being a Princess. 

I read something forever ago that Hasbro made her a Princess because something about Disney portraying Queens as evil? Blah, I dunno. But still, I'm okay with how it is!

[Zygen 6,065]

Well, she doesn't look any different to me in that sketch.

 

And frankly whether shes a queen or princess isn't a huge deal to me.

 

Sure i don't really think that the fact that queens are normally evil for some reason, and princesses are what all girls want to be, even if queens is technically the more politically correct term, where was Princess would be more of a term for the successor, like maybe Twilight.

 

but honestly, its not something that bothers me alot really.

 

If i had to choose queen is more politically correct.

 

However on the same token i'm so use to calling her Celestia, or Princess, that i dunno if i'd feel right calling her queen.

[Misty Shadow 7,246]

She's the ruler of Equestria and has full control of everything as such. So yeah, though I understand why Hasbro prefers for her to be called a princess, she's definitely a queen. Like the Nostalgia Critic would say, "QUEEN IT UP, BITCH!"

[Forlong 1,725]

 

Lauren Faust is exempt from blame; she wanted Celestia to be a queen.  Hasbro said "no" because queens are usually evil in fiction and "princess" is more marketable.

[Sky Warden 2,243]

Queen sounds majestic. Princess sounds cute. Girls like cute things. Princess then.

 

Celestia has no husband. Queen has to have a king husband. Princess then.

 

Celestia has no parents (not introduced). Princess has king and queen parents. Problem then.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

She should be a queen, since she is the ruling monarch of her country / land / nation / whatever-the-buck-Equestria-is. However, I personally find the phrase "Princess Celestia" simply rolls off the tongue better when one of the ponies says it. So I'm happy to have it be "Princess Celestia," even if technically the term Queen would be more fitting.

[Venomshank 120]

Equestria politics

 

-----Different-species-----

 

Earth politics

 

Notice the line? I notice a line. People are constantly wondering about this stuff... What if the meaning of "Princess" was just lost in translation at some point and now just means "Leader"?

[Whofch 128]

I like it as is. Mainly because I'm used to fantasy novels and the queens are just boring characters who are just there, while the princes and princesses are the ones who actually do interesting stuff. Simplified a little but more or less how I look at it.

 

Plus making her a queen just puts her above Luna too much which I just can't like unless they turned here into a queen also and we ended up having some Narnia nonsense going on.

 

Who really cares at the end of the day anyway, it's just a title. The rulers are stull rulers nomatter what people call them. They can always bring in a good queen for another nation somewhere along the line if they want to 'break the mold' or whatever.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Soggy Salamander

[Sig Hoovestrong 837]

Princess Celestia, is ruler of equestria. So why is-ant, she named queen? Thought proper title would be queen, Yet she call here self princess. Anyhow there probably allot of discussions abut the topic, what i would like to know. If you where a pony, how would you address her, go with rest of herd calling her the princess, our call her queen.

 

I would like hear how you would address her, and even share some thoughts on the topic in general.

 

 

[Scootalove 10,684]

I would address her as a princess because, a queen tends to become greedy with power when their subjects are under her rule. So, it would be like comparing Celestia to Chrysalis.

[Rough Pathway 157]

I would address her as queen. I don't like the title, "Princess" because its shallow. /: The reason shes called, "Princess Celestia" is because of Hasbro. Lauren Faust wanted to call her, "Queen Celestia" but Hasbro said no because of Disney with the evil queens and how princesses appeal to little girls.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Rough Pathway

[cuteycindyhoney 13,285]

Hasbro stepped in on that and made her have the title of Princess. In my mind she is Queen, and that's how I would address her. Luna, Cadence and Twilight are Princesses of various ranks after her. Twilight is the newest and the third, but in my opinion, she's number three with a bullet! The kid will go far!

(Yes, I LOVE Alicorn Twilight!)

[Bendy 1,819]

Well, there has been some fan fictions (out of character) out there where Celestia declares herself Queen. Often going mad with power and being evil.