Girl vs Woman

[Hive King 2,001]

Me and my friend were having a discussion on whether or not this is sexist. If a female does something good, you say things like "Awesome job, girl" or "You go, girl". If a female does something bad, it's things like "Lady, how dare you?" or "Stupid woman".

 

My friend is arguing that this is a construct of patriarchy and that it is infantilizing and trivializing women's deeds while adding responsbility to errors. I think that she is looking too far into it.

 

What do you guys think?

[Delernil 952]

She's looking too far into it. I don't say any of those things, and I've never heard anyone say them either.

 

It's really just a speech thing. Like how Adam and Alec sounds better than Alec and Adam. It sounds right to say 'Stupid woman' instead of 'Stupid girl'

[Scootalove 10,689]

Like everyone, we take responsibility for our actions and mistakes. I would say that she is looking far into from her point of view, but it still begs on the question on how people criticize someone's deeds or actions.

[Sir Fluffernutter 435]

I think she's looking a little too far into it. It's simply just a quirk of the English language. Not to mention, it can go both ways. If a guy gets in trouble for something, people are more likely to say, "Young man" than "young boy." But maybe I just have a biased opinion because I'm a dude.

[Flash Fire 386]

Why does gender need to be addressed at all? Why not just say "good job" or "good job, [insert name]"?

[Deesinn 393]

Girl rolls off the tongue smoother than woman, but in the case of "Stupid Woman", saying stupid girl instead lacks the emphasis, fullness, and thickness.  It's almost like you're actually talking to a little kid or something. 

[Hive King 2,001]

Oh yeah, my friend also says this never happens with men. She says that no one ever says "Good job, boy" or the like because it would be rude. I love my friend, but she does this so often

Edited February 16, 2014 by Evil Dragon Master

[Geek0zoid 1,468]

Your friend is probably looking too far into the subject. I guess it's a speech thing. "You go, lady!" sounds a bit odd, don't you think? But, at the same time. we could say "Girl, how dare you?" and that'd sound normal.

 

Regardless, lady and girl are both of the same gender. I honestly don't see why your friend is making such a big deal out of this.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Sound of Madness

[Onylex 2,837]

LMFAO, yeah she's defiantly looking too far into it. 

[Dsanders 5,747]

I don't even understand what she means by "construct of patriarchy" and "infantilizing (not even sure if that is a real word) and trivializing women's deeds."

 

Nothing necessarily wrong with saying "you go women!" It's just really odd to say, just by the sound of it. I'd personally prefer to say "you go girl!"

 

Just fits better.  

[Flash Fire 386]

Her issue, as it seems to me, is that you are calling out the fact that she is a girl and therefore is held to a different standard. Like it's a grander thing for her to do well because of said fact. By not addressing gender when adressing males, it seems as if it is just expected for a male to do well. It's gender equality, true and simple. Don't address women any differently than you would a guy. It's not the words, it's the connotations they carry. It may not be meant by you, but it is by some. 

[Hive King 2,001]

I don't even understand what she means by "construct of patriarchy" and "infantilizing (not even sure if that is a real word) and trivializing women's deeds."

 

Nothing necessarily wrong with saying "you go women!" It's just really odd to say, just by the sound of it. I'd personally prefer to say "you go girl!"

 

Just fits better.  

in·fan·til·ize

ˈinfəntlˌīz,inˈfan-/

verb

gerund or present participle: infantilizing

1. 1.

   treat (someone) as a child or in a way that denies their maturity in age or experience.

    

    

    

    

It is a word to answer your question. 

[Kitsunin 41]

I really think it's just that "Woman" has two syllables while "Man" has only one. I think there are definitely plenty of forms of patriarchy that we see on a regular basis, but that isn't one. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but, even if there is (And there might be for some people!) something to it, it's that kind of attitude that makes people think feminists are full of crap. Nothing wrong with it if she's not shouting it from on high though.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Kitsunin

[Mutemutt 773]

It's hard to say. I can see where she's coming from; when you compare the phrases to their male equivalents, it does seem odd. I'd say it feels so natural now, because it's been used for so long now, that happens with plenty of things. Some of you may write this off as just a language quirk but, given our past, I don't think it's ridiculous to say that some "habits" persisted. 

[UserNotFound 964]

Well either is fine for me

[Discordian 6,015]

I don't know why this is even an issue. Their technically synonymous, aren't they? I realize we're arguing semantics but they both technically mean the same thing and any negative connotation one takes from it is on the person hearing it or the person saying it, not the terms themselves. Not to mention that most of the English language is based on Latin (don't quote me on that, I could be wrong. I'm not exactly a linguist.) and it's not about the roles or genders of people and it's simply that this is how the language is formed.

 

It also seems rather silly to think an entire language is built around giving a specific gender power when the meaning behind most syllables comes from another language entirely.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Discordian

[TurtlesForSale 128]

I've never had any of them said to me other then 'you go girl' as a joke, I think she's just over analyzing things.    

[Flash Fire 386]

It also seems rather silly to think an entire language is built around giving a specific gender power when the meaning behind most syllables comes from another language entirely.

Consider that language was developed during times of male domination and I think you will find your answer.

[Discordian 6,015]

Consider that language was developed during times of male domination and I think you will find your answer.

I kinda feel that's irrelevant. What words in the language besides the actual terms for male and female even have anything to do with the definition of a gender?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I typically address women my age or older as "my lady" out of respect. When referring to women in passing, I usually use "women" to refer to all females in general. I only use "girl" when I'm being very specific. As in, "Pinkie Pie is a girl." So it is more descriptive than anything.

[Flash Fire 386]

I kinda feel that's irrelevant. What words in the language besides the actual terms for male and female even have anything to do with the definition of a gender?

When speaking of the masculine gender default.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

Okay. Before we start saying this is sexist, let's look at it the other way. How do we use the term boy, and how does that differ from the word man?

 

A boy is a young man, which gives the word a bit of innocence and a cutesy connotation. You're generally not going to say "that boy is a jerk," if he's actually an adult. You're going to say "that man is a jerk."

 

Likewise, if a boy is being a jerk, you're going to call him a young man, because that takes away from the idea that he's not a boy, so he should know better. "Just what do you think you're doing, young man?" sounds a lot worse than "just what do you think you're doing, boy?"

 

But what about if you use the word man in a positive way, you ask? Let's look at the following statement: "he's a nice man." Sure, that's perfectly fine. But if we say "he's a nice boy," that carries a bit of a flirtatious meaning. A nice man is probably someone who is helpful or considerate, like maybe a boss who lets you leave early on Friday afternoon. A nice man could be a mechanic who checks your car and doesn't charge you if nothing is wrong. But if we're talking about a nice boy, that means he's not only cute and innocent, but he's nice, too. It means you don't see him as being professional; you see him as being something a little more intimate.

 

So now, let's look at this from the female perspective. It's the same idea. Girls are sweet and cute and awesome, whereas women aren't viewed in that same light. If a female does something wrong, you're going to call her a woman to imply that she should be above that. If a female does something you like, you're going to call her a girl because you think it's cute, sweet, or what-have-you.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Regulus

[Discordian 6,015]

When speaking of the masculine gender default.

Do explain. Not entirely sure what you mean here.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

Do explain. Not entirely sure what you mean here.

 

If you don't know the gender, it's acceptable to assume that it's masculine. The best way I can explain it is like this:

 

Suppose you're driving a car. Suppose someone pulls out in front of you, but you can't see their face. You can see their car, but not the person inside. It could be a girl, but it could also be a guy. "This guy is driving like a jerk" is more acceptable to say, whereas "this girl is driving like a jerk" sounds kinda weird, if you don't know it's a girl driving.

[Dddrgn 450]

She's definitely looking too far into it, it's just a limitation of the English language. Regardless, I've never heard any of those phrases before...