Twilight's Kingdom -- A potential jump the shark moment for FiM?

[Cleverclover 1,526]

I detest Twilight's Kingdom with a burning passion for reasons that I could honestly write a lengthy essay over. But that's not what I'm making this topic to talk about. I'm making this topic to discuss the precedence that this episode sets, and what it will probably mean for the show going forward. 

 

To start off, let's talk about the treatment of the mane five (Twilight's friends).  

 

Season 5 seems like it's clearly going to change up the show by having the mane six going on "friendship adventures" across Equestria, so it seems to me like the slice-of-life nature of the show will be taking a backseat for the most part. We know that the season premiere will involve the mane six going to a town where all the inhabitants have equal signs for cutie marks, and the recap previews for Rainbow Dash and Rarity show that they will somehow end up with equal signs as well. It's unclear what exactly this will do to them, but judging by their reactions (Rarity: ) , it clearly can't be anything good, and this presents the issue. 

 

The mane five were reduced to complete helplessness in Twilight's Kingdom while Twilight got to have her own solo moment of heroism that she didn't have to share with anyone else. This from the same show whose theme up to that point had been solving problems and overcoming challenges through friendship, rather than through individual efforts.  

 

So with Rarity and Rainbow Dash confirmed to be stripped of power, how much of a stretch is it for me to assume that it will happen to the rest of the mane five as well? How much of a stretch is it for me to assume that Twilight will have to be the one to save them yet again? After all, Princess Twilight Sparkle actually went an extra mile to suggest that the mane five are completely useless without Twilight. It will annoy me to no end if they're reduced to helplessness again while Twilight is not, or if we're treated to Twilight being glorified above them before they all eventually solve the problem.  

 

Bottom line, I want the subtitle of the show to remain Friendship is Magic and not Twilight is Best Pony.  :okiedokielokie:

 

 

Now let's talk about Twilight herself, and what this means for her. 

 

Firstly, I view the battle as her actively attempting to take Tirek's life purely out of vengeful bloodlust, rather than out of any desire to protect Equestria from him. This is because she did not engage him until his actions affected her personally, and before then, she wasn't even angry. She engaged him recklessly, and clearly did not take into consideration any other ponies or animals that might have been in the area who may have easily been killed by her blasts. I view the battle to be her absolute lowest moment in the show, and cannot for the life of me understand why everyone loves it so much (other than how well-animated it was, and I'll admit that I was impressed with it at first).  

 

With that in mind, I know that there's going to be an episode where she laments over the loss of her destroyed library, and that's nice and all. But there's another type of episode that I would love to see more than that. I would really like to see an episode where Twilight revisits the site of the battle, sees all of the destruction (which had better not just magically disappear when season 5 starts), and then comes to a realization of just how far she had taken it. The reason I want to see this kind of episode is because it definitely seems like Twilight is going to be walking away from the battle without the slightest bit of damage to her psyche, which, in my opinion, is absurd.

 

Twilight has always been portrayed as very down-to-earth, but still very playful and fun-loving. This is something that never changed when she became an alicorn. So the notion that in a single moment, she can just snap from  into   , then just snap straight back is just utterly ridiculous to me. It's like the equivalent of an easygoing and carefree man going to war, seeing and participating in a ton of battle, and coming back and remaining the same easygoing guy he always was. It doesn't work like that. He would more than likely be struck with PTSD, and it would be quite some time before he came back to be the same guy he always was. 

 

I'm not saying that Twilight should develop PTSD or anything like that, but seeing her just come straight back to who she was directly after engaging in an intense life-or-death struggle is just something that makes her completely unrelatable. If season 5 had an episode that focused on her coming to realize just what she did and what she's capable of, it would at least make her seem like an actual person again. In fact it would probably go as far as to make me actually feel better about her.

 

And lastly, perhaps my biggest worry about Twilight's Kingdom is the notion that the bronies are running the show now. 

 

Does anyone honestly think that DHX had the original target demographic of FiM in mind (7-10 year old girls) when they animated that battle sequence? No. It was made for no other reason than to please the bronies who had been clamoring endlessly for a grimdark moment in the show. 

 

It was fine when it was just little in-show references to the fandom. But pandering to them on a level like this is just going too far, particularly when it goes against the themes of the show like Twilight's battle did. I think it's fair to assume that if bronies were the ones actually doing the writing for FiM, it would be quite a different show, to say the least. So the idea that the writers are now trying to write the show in a way that pleases the bronies is a bit disturbing to me. 

 

I'm not saying that fight scenes do not belong in FiM. But if they do happen, they need to include all of the mane six unless they're simply not present, (like with Applejack's fight in Somepony to Watch Over Me), and they should not be quite as intense to the point where I actually believe that the characters are in it to the death. 

 

I'm truly hoping that the battle in Twilight's Kingdom will be the last of its kind. 

 

Anyway, that's just my thoughts. Sorry about the tl;dr. 

[Red Cedar 1,408]

I have to disagree with you on one point. Twlight did not have a solo moment of heroism... Because she lost. Yes, she did some epic fighting (and I would say some aggression is to be expected when the fate of a nation is literally only on your shoulders) but she didn't defeat Tirek on her own, nor did she do so except with the help of her friends - even Discord.

 

In the end, I think the moment any given series jumps the shark can only be determined in retrospect. I thought that moment may have been when Twilight became a Princess, but season 4 largely proved me wrong. Time alone will tell, but one thing is for sure, I'll be watching every episode.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

I think there have been more scenes of Twilight acting alone in the season openings and finales rather than with her friends. Like it or not, she's the main character. She alone was able to unite the ponies and defeat Nightmare Moon. She healed her friends and defeated Discord. She was able to find the Crystal Heart and pass on the responsibility to Spike only after being captured in order to defeat King Sombra. As for "Twilight's Kingdom", we can see that the story was focused primarily on Twilight which is why the other ponies, which are also not powerful Alicorns, would not be able to join her until they achieved Rainbow Power.

 

As for your claim of pandering, I think that is likely not the case. What occurred in the season finale is more than appropriate for the target audience. I would be very surprised if the unconventional fanbase even affected the writing at all, to be honest.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

The only thing I will have to agree with is that the two-parters are becoming a bit too Twilight-centric. The plots are full of conveniences and forced devices that take other characters out of the story, and even when other characters are actually responsible for saving the day, the focus is still on Twilight ("The Crystal Empire").

 

This would be logical, Twilight being the main character, to an extent. However it does seem the plot is bending over backwards to ensure that it is Twilight alone that makes the weighty decisions and saves the day in the end. In a show supposedly about the collective efforts of bright, talented individuals saving the day, this unfortunately implies that Twilight's personality makes her more desirable and valuable than the others.

 

However, that's where I have to stop agreeing with you. The setup for Season 5 seems really good. There may still be room for them to mess it up by again handing the plot to Twilight on a silver platter, but the setup of the Mane 6 getting spots in Twilight's kingdom and going across Equestria to solve friendship problems is a great setup and a natural progression from the key arc. The other characters will be able to solve problems that they have had experience with. In essence, the students become the teachers.

 

There will be an episode in Season 5 about Twilight dealing with the loss of the library, so I wouldn't down the season just yet. I'd at least wait until that episode airs.

 

Firstly, I view the battle as her actively attempting to take Tirek's life purely out of vengeful bloodlust, rather than out of any desire to protect Equestria from him. This is because she did not engage him until his actions affected her personally, and before then, she wasn't even angry. She engaged him recklessly, and clearly did not take into consideration any other ponies or animals that might have been in the area who may have easily been killed by her blasts. I view the battle to be her absolute lowest moment in the show, and cannot for the life of me understand why everyone loves it so much (other than how well-animated it was, and I'll admit that I was impressed with it at first).  

 

Then this accusation...I just cannot take this seriously. Twilight did not wait until she was affected to engage Tirek. Twilight still did not know how to control her powers and was still learning to deal with the surges that occurred whenever she tried to use her magic (though I will concede it was a bit of a stretch to have her suddenly know how to handle her power against Tirek). Tirek confronted her upon finding out. He fired the first shot, thus drawing Twilight into battle.

 

I cannot go any deeper into this, but I will just leave it at this; yes MLP should be focusing more on the other characters. "Twilight's Kingdom" was misguided in its execution, but I see a good future for this series. Just like with "Magical Mystery Cure", you cannot just go out and call it a "jump the shark" moment before we've seen the rest of the story. Once we see how this is handled, then we can make a real judgement on how the show is going.

[SBaby 660]

Unfortunately when it comes to any given series, it is impossible to tell when it jumped the shark until it ends.  As it is, they said the same thing about Twilicorn.

Edited January 8, 2015 by SBaby

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

Then this accusation...I just cannot take this seriously. Twilight did not wait until she was affected to engage Tirek. Twilight still did not know how to control her powers and was still learning to deal with the surges that occurred whenever she tried to use her magic (though I will concede it was a bit of a stretch to have her suddenly know how to handle her power against Tirek). Tirek confronted her upon finding out. He fired the first shot, thus drawing Twilight into battle.

 

 

Nevertheless, there certainly seemed to be better options. After all, Twilight could fly super fast---much faster than Tirek could possibly move, so she might've been able to get away, granting herself more time to gain control. It's not like Tirek had any other goal in mind at that point but to gain control of the alicorn magic, so he would have been forced to continue to look for her. But no, at the moment his actions directly affected Twilight, she jumped right into battle, ignoring the fact that she was apparently still unable to control her power (which, by the way, only happened simply because the plot called for it, and for no other reason). 

 

You can't tell me that isn't reckless. Hell, since the battle apparently took place so close to Ponyville, it's probably fortunate that the library was the only home that was destroyed. What I really hate about it is that Twilight was always shown to be far more rational than just one viciously shooting deadly laser blasts. But rationality does tend to take a backseat when revenge is on the mind...

 

 

 

Just like with "Magical Mystery Cure", you cannot just go out and call it a "jump the shark" moment before we've seen the rest of the story. Once we see how this is handled, then we can make a real judgement on how the show is going.

 

 

I understand that, but like I said, it definitely seems like the style of the show is going to change going forward. So it's highly possible that it won't be as good as it always has been, which is why I thought it was fair to prematurely proclaim this as the "jump the shark" moment. 

[Arctofire 227]

Well that's your opinion. And one I don't share.

 

While I will admit that other than Return Of Harmony, that kept all 6 of its characters in an equal light, every two since then has been very Twilight heavy, and I don't think that will ever change, but that's not a problem with this episode in particular. Season 5 looks absolutely fantastic and I personally can't wait.

 

As for Twilight, if their was a giant centaur outside your house. Would you just sit and stand there.

 

Also alot of kids shows have action in them, surely you should know that.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Arctofire

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I don't see how anyone can consider this a jump the shark moment after the whole coronation thing already happened.

 

Though adding on to this, I've never found Twilight overfocus to be a problem. Every episode centered on her shows that she's as completely useless without her friends as they are without her, with the arguable exception of MMC.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Dulset Tarn

[Jangocoolguy 433]

There a many ways a shark can be jumped over and you never know when until it's happened.

 

We won't know if TK made the show jump until next season. And even then just the Season Premiere won't be enough to go on.

 

I for one have faith in the creative team. They haven't let me down before.

 

PS: Twilight vs. Tirek was awesome!

[zombienixon 333]

There's been plenty of dark moments in kids cartoons that have no older fanbase. Just because it has moments like that doesn't mean it was done for older fans.

[MechanicalDoom 300]

I loved this episode. I liked how when Tirek wanted her magic to give her back her friends, she gave away her magic because she values friendship. If her friends were useless, why would she risk Tirek destroying Equestria with the alicorn magic? Also, I thought her rage made sense. Tirek destroyed her freaking book collection along with her home. I'm pretty sure that would anger anyone.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,202]

Ironically, in almost every premiere and finale, Twilight has been the main focus. It is nothing new. She is the main character technically. The main subject of friendship in the show, now she is the princess of friendship. It makes sense to me.

 

For me, that finale was amazing in a lot of ways. I think they did so many things right. Twilight herself, Discord, Tirek, and giving Twilight a title AND building opportunities for ALL of the mane 6 to have adventures together, it all added up so well in my eyes.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

There's been plenty of dark moments in kids cartoons that have no older fanbase. Just because it has moments like that doesn't mean it was done for older fans.

Exactly. Kinda like this show here:

[smitty121325 64]

I'm not saying that Twilight should develop PTSD or anything like that, but seeing her just come straight back to who she was directly after engaging in an intense life-or-death struggle is just something that makes her completely unrelatable.

So, Princess Celestia, Spike, and the others shouldn't be relatable because they were also involved in life-or-death situations. I think you forgot that Princess Celestia was involved in a life-or-death battle with Nightmare Moon and wasn't affected at all (at least not psychologically-wise). So, by your logic, Princess Celestia isn't relatable.

 

You're also acting like this is the first grim/dark moment in the show. Each of the characters has gone insane at least once, and "The Return of Harmony" was very dark.

 

Finally, I think the only thing I agree with you on is that the episode was pandering to the bronies, but that's up to interpretation.

I feel that if shows like "The PowerPuff Girls" and "Teen Titans" can get away with having dark elements, so can this show. Our standards have changed. Most parents don't shelter their kids and therefore, aren't afraid to expose their lids to shows and movies that have grim/dark moments. Studios like Pixar have proven this. Lastly, it's a cartoon for 7-10 year old girls. Calm down and stop acting like you're entitled to have the show run the way you want. We have enough bronies who do that crap already. Your voice isn't the only one that matters.

Edited January 8, 2015 by smitty121325

[zombienixon 333]

Exactly. Kinda like this show here:

 

And wouldn't you know, that's the exact thing I was referring to!  Although the one with Somnambula got pretty dark.  Not to mention that a lot of G1 villains were straight up killed, usually by being blown up.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

I get the feeling that every finale from S3 onwards will be considered a jump the shark moment

 

Come on, wait until things actually get bad before you start complaining about the direction the show's taking

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

I get the feeling that every finale from S3 onwards will be considered a jump the shark moment

 

Come on, wait until things actually get bad before you start complaining about the direction the show's taking

Wait until something happens come season 5 that will make people claim it's a jump the shark moment without knowing what that means

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Wait until something happens come season 5 that will make people claim it's a jump the shark moment without knowing what that means

Most overused and incorrectly used buzzwords/phrases in the brony community:

 

Jump-the-shark

Out of character

Flanderization

Deus ex machina

 

Care to add any?

Edited January 9, 2015 by LZRD WZRD

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

Most overused and incorrectly used buzzwords/phrases in the brony community:

 

Jump-the-shark

Out of character

Flanderization

Deus ex machina

 

Care to add any?

You basically for it down. So many times I've heard critics overuse these words when reviewing something without knowing what they mean. I heard reviewers claim the Rainbow Powe was a Deus ex machina. Did they not pay attention to any of the build up?

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

You basically for it down. So many times I've heard critics overuse these words when reviewing something without knowing what they mean. I heard reviewers claim the Rainbow Powe was a Deus ex machina. Did they not pay attention to any of the build up?

The funniest thing has been the people calling the Elements of Harmony a deus ex machina

 

Get out of jail free card? Yes. Easy solution for lazy writers? Perhaps. But not deus ex machina

 

I can't believe some of them get paid for their sophomoric "analysis"

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

The funniest thing has been the people calling the Elements of Harmony a deus ex machina

 

Get out of jail free card? Yes. Easy solution for lazy writers? Perhaps. But not deus ex machina

 

I can't believe some of them get paid for their sophomoric "analysis"

Now, I don't knock people for analyzing the show. I analyze stuff from this show too and it is a fun thing. I just prefer the type of analysis like coming up with headcannons or theory. Not the kind where everyone tries to see who can be the best critic by finding the most unnecessary thing to complain about. And then the comments will just be blindly agreeing with them and then parroting what they say to the rest of the fandom.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

Ironically, in almost every premiere and finale, Twilight has been the main focus. It is nothing new. She is the main character technically. The main subject of friendship in the show, now she is the princess of friendship. It makes sense to me.

 

It's not Twilight being the focus that's the issue. The issue is her being continuously glorified over her friends, and their being reduced to utter uselessness so that she can shine. It could have easily been that the Rainbow Powered up mane six could have had a lengthy battle with Tirek, but that would have simply taken away from Twilight. 

 

Oh, and it's not just the mane five either. It's now to the point where even Celestia and Luna (but mostly Celestia) keep getting knocked down so that Twilight can look better. I'm now concerned that these two parters will become non-stop Twilight glorification fests. 

 

 

 

I think you forgot that Princess Celestia was involved in a life-or-death battle with Nightmare Moon and wasn't affected at all (at least not psychologically-wise). So, by your logic, Princess Celestia isn't relatable.

 

We didn't see anywhere near enough of the aftermath of Luna's banishment to say that Celestia wasn't affected at all. We do know that she was affected for a while, but after a millennium, it's probably fair to say that her mental state had recovered quite a bit.  

 

In Twilight's case, she was forced into an intense battle using borrowed power that she didn't have control over where losing would have likely meant not only her death, but the imprisonment of all Equestria. She was brought down to a point where she was legitimately out for blood and likely wanted to kill, and yet she will still be overcoming it without so much as a single painful memory other than the loss of the library (though this admittedly remains to be seen). I certainly would not have thought that her mind was in any state for to simply walk away completely unaffected from such a traumatic event, and yet she probably will. So yes, I think that makes her unrelatable. 

[Blazebolt 122]

I thought Twilight's kingdom excellent especially  the epic battle with tearack and twi getting her key. 

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Now, I don't knock people for analyzing the show. I analyze stuff from this show too and it is a fun thing. I just prefer the type of analysis like coming up with headcannons or theory. Not the kind where everyone tries to see who can be the best critic by finding the most unnecessary thing to complain about. And then the comments will just be blindly agreeing with them and then parroting what they say to the rest of the fandom.

Oh that's just the worst lol. If I had a nickel for every time someone said "A Canterlot Wedding sucks, go watch Antony C and Tommy Oliver's review" lol

 

Look I'm cool with analysis and reviews as long as it doesn't suck (I dabble in it myself), but when people just nitpick things or make lazy reviews of them just saying "I liked ___ because it was awesome" it's hard not to take jabs at them. The most telling sign of a bad critic is one who can rant all day long about "bad" episodes but has almost nothing intelligent to say about "good" ones.

[Nature's Spell 526]

Most overused and incorrectly used buzzwords/phrases in the brony community:

 

Jump-the-shark

Out of character

Flanderization

Deus ex machina

 

Care to add any?

You forgot my personal favorite Mary Sue.