S06:E19 - The Fault In Our Cutie Marks

[Mentis Soliloquy 3,025]

Though only still giving the overall score of this Episode an 8 from 10 I found only one issue which was the talk of only "ponies" being able to get marks, Pssst...

 

Zercora is not a pony, nor are Saddle Arabians, so I'm gonna asume that they meant horses, not ponies.

 

Other than a few dodgy looking animations I again enjoyed myself as normal.

Here is my video review as normal (FINALLY!!)

 

[weesh 690]

Zercora is not a pony, nor are Saddle Arabians, so I'm gonna asume that they meant horses, not ponies.

 

does zecora have a cutie mark though?

I always wondered if that spiral was just zebra markings.  the fact that she doesn't have real stripes at all further muddies the issue.  

[Mentis Soliloquy 3,025]

does zecora have a cutie mark though?

I always wondered if that spiral was just zebra markings.  the fact that she doesn't have real stripes at all further muddies the issue.  

 

I can say with 100% fact that she does have a cutie mark.

[powerpuff-tsubasa 448]

liked the griffion/dashie blend art here.

 

i always thought gabby was the griffion version of pinkie pie. being preppy and excited about receiving cutie marks. other than that. the story was well written

[ManaMinori 4,145]

With Gabby an official CmC, I gotta wonder if we'll ever see Babs again...

[Ethan Tran 950]

With Gabby an official CmC, I gotta wonder if we'll ever see Babs again...

i think Gabby will go back to her job at Griffonstone, and be the founder of the Crusaders' Griffonstone branch) pretty much like Babs) so i guess we will see both of them, but hard to say when.. it's so random.

[cider float 2,538]

So basically Gabby was good at everything the Cutie Mark Crusaders tried when they were blank flank. I also wonder how much like Pinkie Pie she was like without the 4th wall breaking. She was like Pinkie Pie but good at everything. She's also the complete opposite of Gilda.

Edited September 12, 2016 by cider float

[takai 1,060]

Plenty of positives and negatives with this one. First, I really liked the continuation from the Griffenstone episode. It really helps make the show feel deeper and alive.

 

Twilight is so damn adorable it hurts.

 

The story itself was in my opinion, one of the better post-cutie mark CMC episodes. Also, Gabby's design was pretty cute; but that's about the extent of the positives.

 

Gabby was annoying as all hell, she made Pinkie Pie seem fairly tame. The song was also pretty mediocre. Does it seem like the quality of musical numbers has gone down quite a bit since the start of the season?

 

Heck, I think the quality of the show has dipped a bit, as much as I hate to admit it. Then again, this was a CMC episode. They're notorious for being "meh" at best.

[Varrack 1,080]

This was better than the Tender Taps episode, but it still had flaws. Don't get me wrong...this was good. However...Gabby's hyperactive attitude made the episode seem as though there was no conflict. No matter how far into despair the CMC were, Gabby would still optimistic, so the purpose of trying to make Gabby happy was self-defeating.

 

Also...being good at everything? What?

 

Being made a crusader too makes no sense, since she's not crusading for anything, she's just exercising her purpose of helping others. The CMC are the ones who are helping other ponies find their purposes in their lives.

 

Lastly...it was cheesy. It seemed very try-hard and thus came across to me as insincere.

[Number62 1,258]

Griffons getting a cutie mark? Let's give cutie marks to dragons, and yaks, and buffaloes, and mules. You get a cutie mark! And you get a cutie mark! Cutie marks for everyone!!

 

Good thing that wasn't the case.

 

For this episode, it was a much better follow-up to the CMC getting their marks than "On Your Marks" and whatever the hell the carts episode was supposed to be. It even answers two questions even though the answers are obvious. What will the CMC do if they can't help someone get a cutie mark, and can other creatures get cutie marks?

 

New question: How many members can the Cutie Mark Crusaders assemble?

[weesh 690]

I can say with 100% fact that she does have a cutie mark.

 

 

what is the evidence for that?

[Mentis Soliloquy 3,025]

what is the evidence for that?

 

Besides the fact there are two episodes from memory that say it out loud, it looks like one...

 

I mean that is not a birth mark on her flank, it's a cutie mark.

[Thrond 3,263]

Zebras are significantly closer to ponies than griffons are. Zecora's frank symbol doesn't look all that much like a cutie mark (from memory,) but even if it is a cutie mark, I think the statement that only ponies (or equines in general) can get cutie marks is reasonable.

[Truffles 2,033]

Unless Petunia's parents always kept her locked in her room or something, it seems like the same events could have played out with her parents realizing what her cutie mark means without the CMC being there at all.

 

That's a good point. Furthermore, in past examples of ponies getting cutie marks, it has come about due to the pony doing something important to trigger the event. Since Petunia already has her cutie mark, she must have dug up some bones in the past to make it appear. One would think she would have rushed home to tell her parents she found some old pony bones and it caused her cutie mark to appear, and they would have been able to put two and two back together then.

 

I suppose she could have been reading about paleontology/archaeology and her mark appeared, but wouldn't her parents be able to figure it out similarly and not assume she has some nefarious life ahead of her? (Or something less nefarious but just as unappealing like grave digger?)

 

 

 

If Scootaloo does have a physical disability, such that she has no prospects of being able to fly, wouldn't it be better for her in the long run not to hold onto the hope and dream of being able to fly, and instead to reorient herself toward achievable goals? Similarly, wouldn't it be better for Gabby if the CMC didn't continue to fuel her arguably unhealthy fervent dream of getting a cutie mark, when there's no reason to believe that that can happen? Scootaloo says "maybe trying for the impossible isn't so bad", but isn't it bad when done to the significant detriment of one's physical/mental/emotional well-being?

 

If it were me, I would not want to be the someone responsible for crushing their dreams. I think that's where the CMC were coming from, even if it meant they were digging themselves into a deeper hole they'd have to crawl out of later on. Instant gratification is a powerful incentive compared to worrying about the consequences for putting off something till later. I give you future Spike, who knows this lesson all too well:

 

 

When the CMC realized it was impossible for Gabby to earn a real cutie mark and started panicking, it reminded me of Spike's attitude toward future Spike a little too much!

 

 

Therefore, while the CMC's ultimate solution of making Gabby a Cutie Mark Crusader and affirming that her calling is to help others might be kind of clever and heartwarming, I can't help feeling that it might be glossing over the deeper problem of Gabby not feeling like she fits in or is making a difference in Griffinstone. Is Gabby really prepared to spend years, or the rest of her life, trying to spread friendliness and helpfulness in Griffinstone, even if she's almost alone in that endeavor and there's no sign of it having any effect? Is there any reasonable expectation that Gabby's efforts in Griffinstone will make a worthwhile difference? Or would Gabby be happier living in Ponyville or elsewhere, where her apparently considerable talents, and her innate friendliness and helpfulness, might be put to better use?

 

To me it seems like Gabby might feel like she can do the most good in a place like Griffonstone because it is in such terrible shape, even if it means she's spending years of her life on it without any guaranteed payoff. It's kind of like how worldwide charitable organizations focus on the poorest nations, rather than places where local organizations exist to help, and she might figure Ponyville already has a princess and 6 Elements to help. Plus there's the fact that she was born there, has family there, and wants to see Griffonstone turn itself back from the hellhole it is now to the prosperous nation it once was.

 

So yes, she probably could help a lot more ponies since they're more receptive to help but the effect per pony would not be as great as if she could help even a few griffons see the light. 

 

 

Twilight also tells the CMC that "you have got to get Gabby back here right away!", but what exactly does Twilight expect the CMC to do to get Gabby back "right away"? The letter says that Gabby is heading back home to Griffinstone, so it seems like the only way that the CMC could contact her would be to go to Griffinstone and find her in-person, which they couldn't do by themselves, or maybe send her a letter after she gets home, which Twilight might have to assist the CMC with anyway, and also would hardly result in Gabby coming back "right away".

 

Speaking of which, after the CMC go looking for Gabby, Scootaloo says to watch the skies because "Gabby can't have gone far". But couldn't she have?

 

*Blinks* This is why I love the attention to detail analyzers have. You're right again! Now that I think about it, considering Gabby can fly and because Twilight was the only one among the four of them that can also fly, it only would have made sense for her to delay her research for a bit and fly off looking for Gabby herself! I'm not sure what she was thinking by sending three land-bound ponies after a griffon! XD

 

And while it's true they found her anyway, it was like you said mostly due to a plot contrivance. They didn't know (though maybe the audience did) she would stop to help every creature she met along the way back to Griffonstone.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

 

 

However...Gabby's hyperactive attitude made the episode seem as though there was no conflict. No matter how far into despair the CMC were, Gabby would still optimistic, so the purpose of trying to make Gabby happy was self-defeating.

Yes, that make sense, why did i not think of it before?   Gabby is just a Genki Girl type of character with so much energy, so much talents (Mary Sue Trait), lovable by everypony she helped (Mary Sue Trait?), not my cup of tea. Pinkie is the only hyperactive character done right in this show.

I thought it would be better if they make the whole theory "griffin can get cutie mark" MORE CONVINCING, not trying deny it too directly in Act 1/2, MAKE CHARACTERS (AND VIEWERS) THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE and then Slap to our face "Just kidding, do you really think it possible?"   A.K.A False Hope, it would give more weights to the conflict  , dont you think?

[Rarity Is Best Pony 634]

Gabby was super annoying and overall I didn't enjoy the episode since I couldn't really get behind her as a character. This was probably my new least favorite episode of season 6.

[Varrack 1,080]

Yes, that make sense, why did i not think of it before?   Gabby is just a Genki Girl type of character with so much energy, so much talents (Mary Sue Trait), lovable by everypony she helped (Mary Sue Trait?), not my cup of tea. Pinkie is the only hyperactive character done right in this show.

I thought it would be better if they make the whole theory "griffin can get cutie mark" MORE CONVINCING, not trying deny it too directly in Act 1/2, MAKE CHARACTERS (AND VIEWERS) THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE and then Slap to our face "Just kidding, do you really think it possible?"   A.K.A False Hope, it would give more weights to the conflict  , dont you think?

 

I totally agree. I think the writers thought that making a "perfect" character would make her very likable with the audience, but for me and others it came across as annoying. It seemed obvious from the beginning that griffins couldn't get cutie marks, making the whole episode somewhat predictable. 

 

When Gabby faked her cutie mark I knew immediately that it wasn't a real one, and was further disappointed when she seemed optimistic immediately *after* it got washed off. A good conflict has to include some sadness/despair, but this episode doesn't seem to achieve it very well. Everyone just seemed too happy the whole time, which seems more like a g1 trait than something that should be in this show.

[Truffles 2,033]

I thought it would be better if they make the whole theory "griffin can get cutie mark" MORE CONVINCING, not trying deny it too directly in Act 1/2, MAKE CHARACTERS (AND VIEWERS) THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE and then Slap to our face "Just kidding, do you really think it possible?"   A.K.A False Hope, it would give more weights to the conflict  , dont you think?

 

I don't think it is good to toy with the audience's hopes like that, especially in a situation like this where making it possible or not is completely arbitrary since the writer can pretty much make anything they want up. It's like the writer standing there laughing at the audience, "Ha, ha - made you hope! Psyche!"

 

It was more logical to have both the audience and CMC share the doubt that another species can get a cutie mark since there's been no canon of that happening outside of equine species. The conflict wasn't so much them trying to figure out a way to make it work, but having to face the fact that there was just no way it was going to happen. The carved marks were a decent substitute and I was satisfied with their solution.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Truffles

[Regent 77]

Yes, that make sense, why did i not think of it before?   Gabby is just a Genki Girl type of character with so much energy, so much talents (Mary Sue Trait), lovable by everypony she helped (Mary Sue Trait?), not my cup of tea. Pinkie is the only hyperactive character done right in this show.

I thought it would be better if they make the whole theory "griffin can get cutie mark" MORE CONVINCING, not trying deny it too directly in Act 1/2, MAKE CHARACTERS (AND VIEWERS) THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE and then Slap to our face "Just kidding, do you really think it possible?"   A.K.A False Hope, it would give more weights to the conflict  , dont you think?

I kinda like the Marry Sue aspect. She's the only one to really have it, and I think a followup should have something to do with how unbelievably weird it is to be good at everything. She could be a villain scoping out and testing her targets by presenting them with false dilemmas.

 

She could also be a robot and not know it. Hey, pony tech is inconsistently presented in this universe. It could happen.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Regent

[Thrond 3,263]

It's not that "The Fault in Our Cutie Marks" is packed with narrative beats, but that the narrative beats are all intelligently paced. I think Gabby starts to become annoying around the middle, but it's worth noting that this coincides pretty closely with the Cutie Mark Crusaders becoming more and more anxious about letting Gabby down. I think that her enthusiasm growing more annoying actually helps the dramatic irony which is just dripping from this episode. Which isn't to say I ever found her intolerable - she's adorable even when her presence becomes a bit much.

 

Gabby suggesting that she could be the first griffon to get a cutie mark gives the Crusaders a tiny bit of hope, or at least enough to humour her a little longer and put off the hard conversation. It serves a thematic and emotional purpose even as it delays the payoff. For an episode which ends on such a warm, heartfelt note, it plays extensively with dread. 

 

For me, this show usually inspires dread when it's moving towards a particularly obvious bit of cringe comedy. Dread isn't really what I'm supposed to be feeling in such situations, and it often makes those episodes unpleasant viewing experiences. This is a case where dread is instead used to emotional effect - first, inspiring sympathy for Gabby and the Crusaders, and then bringing joy as the episode subverts it in its climax. When an episode uses this kind of anticipation properly, it can make the episode more watchable rather than less. It creates tension.  

 

A much smaller decision which I think really speaks to the episode's great pacing is when the Crusaders finally confront Gabby. They don't draw it out: Gabby slipping in the mud, so her fake cutie mark drips off, allows the episode to get right to the point and subvert the crushing dramatic irony which it had been banking on. Remember "28 Pranks Later," where Rainbow needs to wait for a couple minutes before she gets the hint? This is the opposite of that - not drawing things out where it's not necessary. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by AlexanderThrond

[Music Chart Fan 819]

If it were me, I would not want to be the someone responsible for crushing their dreams. I think that's where the CMC were coming from, even if it meant they were digging themselves into a deeper hole they'd have to crawl out of later on. Instant gratification is a powerful incentive compared to worrying about the consequences for putting off something till later.

 

Yeah, I guess it's a little too easy to be cool-headed and logical when suggesting what characters should do in a fictional TV show, when in reality, it's often easier said than done to tell someone an uncomfortable truth, even if it's for the better. I've been on both sides of that. On the one hand, I've done untenable things and had untenable ideas which were shot down by others. And in retrospect, I find many of those things embarrassing and would readily admit that I'm better off for having been stopped from doing them, but, especially at the time, the urge to defend myself and find some way to still feel like I was right (or at least not stupid) was strong. On the other hand, I've also had to grit my teeth and tell people things to which I knew they would react badly. And, again, in retrospect, I feel that I made the correct decision in doing that, but I did sometimes feel the urge to put it off or find some way to avoid doing it.

 

To me it seems like Gabby might feel like she can do the most good in a place like Griffonstone because it is in such terrible shape, even if it means she's spending years of her life on it without any guaranteed payoff. It's kind of like how worldwide charitable organizations focus on the poorest nations, rather than places where local organizations exist to help, and she might figure Ponyville already has a princess and 6 Elements to help. Plus there's the fact that she was born there, has family there, and wants to see Griffonstone turn itself back from the hellhole it is now to the prosperous nation it once was.

 

So yes, she probably could help a lot more ponies since they're more receptive to help but the effect per pony would not be as great as if she could help even a few griffons see the light.

 

Interestingly, while you compare Gabby's commitment to spread Crusader values in Griffinstone to charity work, I suppose I was thinking of Gabby's situation as analogous to that of stereotypical people in long-standing manipulative/miserable/etc. relationships. The advice I've often seen for those situations is that, even if it hurts, those people should stop taking the manipulation/misery/etc. and pouring their energies down the drain when there's no reason to believe that the other person will change or improve. By that advice, such people should not feel any obligation to continue banging their hands against the wall when they deserve better and can get better by leaving the relationship behind. And in that paradigm, it might be considered a tragic mistake rather than a selfless or admirable act for such a person to stay in that relationship. But after reading your comment, I'm not sure which is the better analogy, if one is to be considered better than the other. It's given me something to think some more about!

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I didn't dislike this episode, but it wasn't my favorite CMC episode either. I loved the overall moral of this episode and while Gabby was rather loud and a tiny bit annoying she was still a decent overall character and simply didn't want to be let down about receiving her cutie mark. I loved the CMC in this episode, they tried so hard to make Gabby happy and not let her down and they tried everything. I also loved Twilight this episode, seeing her nerd out was both funny and cute. 8/10 episode!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Truffles 2,033]

Interestingly, while you compare Gabby's commitment to spread Crusader values in Griffinstone to charity work, I suppose I was thinking of Gabby's situation as analogous to that of stereotypical people in long-standing manipulative/miserable/etc. relationships. The advice I've often seen for those situations is that, even if it hurts, those people should stop taking the manipulation/misery/etc. and pouring their energies down the drain when there's no reason to believe that the other person will change or improve. By that advice, such people should not feel any obligation to continue banging their hands against the wall when they deserve better and can get better by leaving the relationship behind. And in that paradigm, it might be considered a tragic mistake rather than a selfless or admirable act for such a person to stay in that relationship. But after reading your comment, I'm not sure which is the better analogy, if one is to be considered better than the other. It's given me something to think some more about!

 

As you have for me! Just to expand a bit on my thinking, when the CMC announced they were adding Gabby as a member, I immediately thought back to Babs Seed and how she became the Manehatten branch of the CMC and figured Gabby would follow in her hoofsteps and chair the Griffonstone chapter.

 

The funny thing is, now that I think about it, the two situations aren't that comparable because back then, the purpose of the CMC "branches" were to try to get their own marks and not necessarily help other ponies like Gabby has been tasked with. (At least that's my recollection)

 

So even though thinking of her as being part of a charitable organization has merit,  the spark of that idea wasn't accurate. You're right that she can only do so much before giving up; I suppose it is up to her in such an outcome to decide whether the years of effort was worth it if it fails to bear fruit.

 

As a side note, Ember is kind of in a similar situation as Gabby in that Twilight can now push her to socialize the dragons. The advantage Ember has however, is she is their leader and holds a staff that seems to have some amount of control over them. Gabby is pretty much on her own, save for any help she can secure from Gilda and perhaps Greta. 

[Twilight Frost 271]

I finally got caught up after getting left back for a couple of weeks. I cannot say this was a great episode but I did enjoy it. It just felt, awkward. I didn't care too much for the miss perfect griffon character. She was way too cheerful for me to like her. I know she was suppose to be the opposite of other griffons but they over did it a lot. 

[Batbrony 16,054]

 

Good evening everypony, and welcome back to another edition of "Batbrony Reviews."  First of all, I need to apologize for being so late on this one; I was busy last week travelling for a job interview, and this week just got away from me.  That said, I'm very happy to be getting this written up now, because me oh my this was a DELIGHTFUL episode!  Without further ado, let's begin.

 

So first things first, I don't think this was so much a Cutie Mark Crusaders episode as it was a Scootaloo episode.  Don't get me wrong, they were all involved from start to finish, but there was a clear focus on Scootaloo as the primary actor pushing them throughout the episode, mostly because she drew many parallels with the episode's new character.  That said, it was still a phenomenal CMC episode overall, because at no point did any of them come off as needlessly stupid or malevolent.  The writing was phenomenal namely because everyone behaved realistically; they were presented with someone they really wanted to help, but an awkward situation because they really didn't know how.  This will lead into a bigger point I have to make later on, but a resonating theme with the group in this episode was optimism and hope, how far those can take you, and what their limitations are.  The episode tries to answer how does one balance boundless optimism with logic and realism, especially in a crummy situation, and it answers it spectacularly I thought.  For the Crusaders, it gave us a chance to see that they continue to mature and grow; they're no longer trying ideas they know are probably bad, they think things through carefully and have a system, and I love seeing that.  This was exactly what the successor to their first Season 6 ep needed to be, and I couldn't be happier for it.

 

 

So now we come to our new character.  Gabriella.  Oh my.  Gabby, Gabby, Gabby.  I don't think words can do justice to how cute this little ball of fluff and feathers was, so I'll just leave this instead...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYzjSlw3rwY

 

Yeah, seriously.  New best griffon?  Oh buck yes, new best griffon!!!  And you know what the funny thing is?  I bet this was a hard character to write.  No, I'm not even joking.  It would have been SO easy to make her a Mary Sue, because of how bubbly, and optimistic, and cheerful, and just plain adorable she is, but somehow they avoided that trap and color me impressed that they did!  As with Scootaloo not being able to fly (which the episode phenomenally wove into the story), there was an unspoken pain lying beneath the surface with her.  We either are this person or we know a person like this, someone who tries going through life as cheerful as possible, not for their own sake, but just to try to make other people happy.  That's Gabriella in a nutshell.  You think at first that it's some sort of mask to help her cope with how crummy Griffonstone is, but no, it wasn't!  As the episode plays out (especially once we reach the end), we learn she's as genuine as could be in her constant cheerfulness and optimism.  Yet at the same time, one can still tell that there was a hidden pain to this character for multiple reasons.  For starters, she's gone her whole life, naturally cheerful and upbeat, dedicated to making other griffons happy, but unfortunately for her that is not a natural inclination for her kind.  So basically, she's been surrounded by distrustful curmudgeons her whole life.  On top of that, she's never felt like she belongs nor knowing what her purpose is.  So basically, she has no rewarding outlet for all her cheerfulness up until she went to Ponyville.  Not that we should expect something for doing good things, but Gabby's situation was extreme; she had nothing, NOBODY in her life giving her so much as a smile or a thank you for her efforts.  To say her situation was depressing is an understatement.

 

 

This leads me finally to the themes of the episode.  While some may say the episode was just about finding your purpose, I'd say it was more than that.  Finding your purpose is a theme that has gotten recycled for multiple CMC episodes at this point and will continue to do so, after all, it's what they do.  No, I would say that boundless optimism was at the center of this episode, very much akin to, believe it or not, "It's a Wonderful Life" or "Forrest Gump."  These are movies that, while simple in certain respects, are effective mostly because, at the heart of them, is a simple but powerful theme that resonates with many people: the power of just being a genuinely decent person.  That was very evident in this whole episode.  You felt for Gabby, even if you weren't sure just like the CMC weren't what the answer to her dilemma was, because she was just so genuine and decent and good, and to make matters worse she lived in a country that didn't appreciate or encourage those qualities of hers.  She didn't just want to find her purpose, she wanted to find her place, although surprisingly she never attempted to or thought of living in Equestria (though I guess I couldn't see her abandoning her home).  But you could tell, in many respects, that this was someone who on the inside was probably running on fumes of hope at this point, and she oftentimes came off as almost desperate to find the answer she was looking for.  You can't help but feel for such optimism and hope, and it just sucked me in from the second she showed up.  I didn't think she was gonna get her cutie mark, but I wanted her to find her purpose, and more importantly, just find pride in who she was.  She didn't just find purpose in learning that her purpose is to simply help others however she can, she found self-worth and a reason to just keep going for herself, because such a good person shouldn't be asked to just keep going for others, even if it comes naturally to them.  She could probably spend the rest of her life impoverished and destitute and she'd still be totally satisfied knowing that alone, and that's what made the episode so powerful.  A genuinely decent character found the one thing she was looking for that was missing from her life, and there was something really powerful about getting to see that because I think it's easy to forget that it's not always hard to be a good person in life, much less like Gabby, especially growing up where she did.  So like I said, for an episode that didn't exactly have many tears, this was a powerful one, and I loved it for that, especially because I think it handled its themes with nuance, grace, and poise.

 

 

Besides that, this wasn't exactly a laugh-heavy episode, but that's fine; there were some good ones here and there, particularly getting to see Twilight nerdgasm, but that's about it.  There was a good song in the middle but nothing mindblowing for this show.  It was nice getting a simple slice-of-life Ponyville episode again, and I was super happy to spot Derpy with Dinky again (further confirmation of her being Dinky's canon mom this season!!!).  But like I said, when I think back on this episode and return to it, I'll always think first and foremost about it's wonderful writing, handling of its themes, and of course, the wonderful, wonderful, WONDERFUL new character that is Gabriella the Griffon!  That's all I've got this week everypony, until, well, tomorrow, this is Batbrony signing off.  I'm off!!! *cue dramatic exit*

 

 

Cutest griffon?  BUCK YES CUTEST GRIFFON!!!