Which pony least lives up to her element?

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

 

I actually didn't see your list since I wasn't all that focused on it(no offense). Now, your list is a lot better thought out and while I disagree with a few of the points on whether or not they represent generosity, I get your point. My problem is that Rarity breaks her own Element far more than the others, but that is a matter of opinion. 

Alright. Let's just make this you and me, then. I'll show you that you're wrong in a heartbeat. Everyone else, stay off for a little bit, please.

 

K. You read my list. After reading that, how do you not find her worthy of the element of generosity? I mean, I'd love to see your shining examples of how the others, barring Twilight, represent their element every episode.

Edited November 6, 2013 by ghostfacekiller39

[Whatevs 377]

Wow, quite a lot to sort through

 

I don't dislike Rarity as a character, I simply don't find her worthy of the Element of Generosity

 

I actually didn't see your list since I wasn't all that focused on it(no offense). Now, your list is a lot better thought out and while I disagree with a few of the points on whether or not they represent generosity, I get your point. My problem is that Rarity breaks her own Element far more than the others, but that is a matter of opinion. 

 

You on the other hand, really irk me for some reason. Raging and derision are interchangeable over the internet as they both are insults. As for facts, ghostfacekiller29's list had more facts than your opinion riddled list. Like I said, calm down

My list is factual actually. No reasonable person can disagree with the facts on it (beyond a few editing issues) unless they are simply ignorant of them.

Everything on that list happened, accept it.

[Hive King 2,001]

Alright. Let's just make this you and me, then. I'll show you that you're wrong in a heartbeat. Everyone else, stay off for a little bit, please.

 

K. You read my list. After reading that, how do you not find her worthy of the element of generosity? I mean, I'd love to see your shining examples of how the others, barring Twilight, represent their element every episode.

They don't represent it every episode and I'm not saying they do, I just think that Rarity has gone greedy more than others. I'm not trying to convince you, so I'm not going to come up with a list. I'm not in the mood for a huge battle(unless it's Whatevs, he I will gladly battle).

 

My list is factual actually. No reasonable person can disagree with the facts on it (beyond a few editing issues) unless they are simply ignorant of them.

Everything on that list happened, accept it.

Good lord you're stubborn. Anyway, not everything on your list was factual, some of it was, but not all of it

[Luffyiscool 397]

 

I don't dislike Rarity as a character, I simply don't find her worthy of the Element of Generosity

 

Fine, i respect your opinion. Just thought i'd try and introduce you to the line of thinking that Rarity is being generous every single day just by putting her dreams on hold to live with her friends.

[Hive King 2,001]

Fine, i respect your opinion. Just thought i'd try and introduce you to the line of thinking that Rarity is being generous every single day just by putting her dreams on hold to live with her friends.

I respect that, thank you for not jumping down my throat about unlike some people above me who shall remain unnamed lest I lose my mind

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

They don't represent it every episode and I'm not saying they do, I just think that Rarity has gone greedy more than others. I'm not trying to convince you, so I'm not going to come up with a list. I'm not in the mood for a huge battle(unless it's Whatevs, he I will gladly battle).

 

Good lord you're stubborn. Anyway, not everything on your list was factual, some of it was, but not all of it

Ignore Whatevs. No offense to him, but I want to take care of this myself. I'm a pro at this.

 

Hmph. If you're entire argument is that she's gone greedy more than the others, you're still wrong. You're just looking at what you want to see, and that's why you're wrong.

 

I have a feeling Sweet & Elite is going to be your weapon against me here.

 

You can say she was greedy for a good, good part of that episode; she was chasing her dream, and was caught up in it, IMO, but you could still say she was being greedy, because it's reasonable.

 

What you're not taking into consideration is that she threw all of that aside and stood up for her friends in the end. In the end, she chose her friends...

 

...? So, she chose her friends over her dreams and felt remorse for her actions...but she's an awful pony.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Artemis

[Whatevs 377]

In fact, I'm going to go over why you're wrong
>25. She said the gems were ruined, that was why she didn't take them off
This is the only correct one, I meant to edit it out after I rewatched the scene to verify.
 
>3. I don't remember this but it's not exactly a huge leap of generosity, that was just recompensating
yea, it is small, but it happened.
>4. Rarity only joined because she didn't have a choice, it had nothing to do with making Twilight happy
Wrong. Rarity specifically attended the slumber party because Twilight wanted it. Rewatch the scene.
Incontrovertible.
>5. AJ was uncouth but it was Rarity who pointed out the flaws and instigated fights, just as much as AJ
I said that Rarity did it to. The difference is that Rarity spent more time with Twilight.
>10. True, but a minute later she's prancing around like a moron
Irrelevant. People don't hesitate to point that out but want to try and bury what she actually did at the beginning.
>17. Did she ever discover that Sweetie stole supplies?
Yes. If you don't know, don't have an opinion.
>29. She chose her own wants over the dress She was not lusting for more, she was afraid of being rejected.
>30. Tries rather pathetically before going back to the Elites
That is rank interpretation. In that scene she specifically goes back with the Elites because they guilted her into doing so. They played on her generous nature.
Seriously, this is a joke.
>34. This could taken as selfish as well. If she had handed it over, Spike would have been placated, even if only briefly.
No, it really can't. Unless you automatically assume she's lying whenever she says something even with nothing to contradict it.
She specifically says, I won't let you have this because of who gave it to her.
>37. It's her job to dress up ponies
No it wasn't, she wasn't getting paid for it. 
>38. Twilight also defended Spike and how could she not know her baby talk would irritate him?
Hypersketpicism is not an argument. Prove she knew.
>39. I didn't see incredible eagerness beyond the others and the Crackle costume was a necessity for the dragon country, anypony would have done that
Her being the most angry when they were going to fight? Her being the most distraught over his decision to leave? Her cooing when he comes back and they hug at the end.
And she donated the supplies freely, done.
>40. She didn't do anything the others didn't
I specifically listed things she did that were above and beyond the others.
>42. She still conned the stallion. What if the stallion was in a similar situation to Fluttershy where he needed the asparagus?'
What if? That's your argument when faced with the fact that she did what she did purely to help Fluttershy after he cut her off and still paid him back despite not having to. In reality what she did was she bought the asparagus for Fluttershy when you consider the fullness of the transaction.
>44. We don't see her reaction until after the apology, she was very angry at Sweetie
I never said she wasn't angry, merely that her anger was simply a scolding. She was the only one who handled the situation reasonably.
>46. It was either that or be a slave to Trixie
Again, that doesn't change that she used her supplies to help.
 
Give me a break.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Artemis

[Luffyiscool 397]

I respect that, thank you for not jumping down my throat about unlike some people above me who shall remain unnamed lest I lose my mind

No problem, i always make an effort to be sincere and polite with people. I was raised by my family to show common courtesy whenever i can.

Insults and bitterness only lead arguments in circles, after all.

 

 

Ignore Whatevs. No offense to him, but I want to take care of this myself. I'm a pro at this.

 

Hmph. If you're entire argument is that she's gone greedy more than the others, you're still wrong. You're just looking at what you want to see, and that's why you're wrong.

No offense, but this amused me slightly.

 

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

In fact, I'm going to go over why you're wrong

>25. She said the gems were ruined, that was why she didn't take them off

This is the only correct one, I meant to edit it out after I rewatched the scene to verify.

 

>3. I don't remember this but it's not exactly a huge leap of generosity, that was just recompensating

yea, it is small, but it happened.

>4. Rarity only joined because she didn't have a choice, it had nothing to do with making Twilight happy

Wrong. Rarity specifically attended the slumber party because Twilight wanted it. Rewatch the scene.

Incontrovertible.

>5. AJ was uncouth but it was Rarity who pointed out the flaws and instigated fights, just as much as AJ

I said that Rarity did it to. The difference is that Rarity spent more time with Twilight.

>10. True, but a minute later she's prancing around like a moron

Irrelevant. People don't hesitate to point that out but want to try and bury what she actually did at the beginning.

>17. Did she ever discover that Sweetie stole supplies?

Yes. If you don't know, don't have an opinion.

>29. She chose her own wants over the dress

CONGRATULATIONS! You clearly didn't understand what happened in that ep. She was not lusting for more, she was afraid of being rejected.

>30. Tries rather pathetically before going back to the Elites

That is rank interpretation. In that scene she specifically goes back with the Elites because they guilted her into doing so. They played on her generous nature.

Seriously, this is a joke.

>34. This could taken as selfish as well. If she had handed it over, Spike would have been placated, even if only briefly.

No, it really can't. Unless you automatically assume she's lying whenever she says something even with nothing to contradict it.

She specifically says, I won't let you have this because of who gave it to her.

>35. Accidental, if I accidentally do the same thing, am I generous or just lucky?

Idiotic, because you earlier criticized her for Sonic Rainboom....which was also something she didn't know she was doing. So you have to either take one or the other.

>37. It's her job to dress up ponies

No it wasn't, she wasn't getting paid for it. 

>38. Twilight also defended Spike and how could she not know her baby talk would irritate him?

Hypersketpicism is not an argument. Prove she knew.

>39. I didn't see incredible eagerness beyond the others and the Crackle costume was a necessity for the dragon country, anypony would have done that

Her being the most angry when they were going to fight? Her being the most distraught over his decision to leave? Her cooing when he comes back and they hug at the end.

And she donated the supplies freely, done.

>40. She didn't do anything the others didn't

I specifically listed things she did that were above and beyond the others.

>42. She still conned the stallion. What if the stallion was in a similar situation to Fluttershy where he needed the asparagus?'

What if? That's your argument when faced with the fact that she did what she did purely to help Fluttershy after he cut her off and still paid him back despite not having to. In reality what she did was she bought the asparagus for Fluttershy when you consider the fullness of the transaction.

>44. We don't see her reaction until after the apology, she was very angry at Sweetie

I never said she wasn't angry, merely that her anger was simply a scolding. She was the only one who handled the situation reasonably.

>46. It was either that or be a slave to Trixie

Again, that doesn't change that she used her supplies to help.

 

Give me a break.

 

Please let me handle this, Whatevs. I'm asking you kindly. You're just going to piss him off even more than you have. That'll get you reported, and I don't want to see someone defending Rarity get in trouble

 

Allow me to take this, dude. It's cool, I can handle it. I have it all under control.

[Whatevs 377]

Ignore Whatevs. No offense to him, but I want to take care of this myself. I'm a pro at this.

 

Hmph. If you're entire argument is that she's gone greedy more than the others, you're still wrong. You're just looking at what you want to see, and that's why you're wrong.

 

I have a feeling Sweet & Elite is going to be your weapon against me here.

 

You can say she was greedy for a good, good part of that episode; she was chasing her dream, and was caught up in it, IMO, but you could still say she was being greedy, because it's reasonable.

 

What you're not taking into consideration is that she threw all of that aside and stood up for her friends in the end. In the end, she chose her friends...

 

...? So, she chose her friends over her dreams and felt remorse for her actions...but she's an awful pony.

 

That'd make sense to anyone, given everyone is a 5 year old and you're giving them a free sticker if they say they agree with you.

That's not entirely true. If you actually listen to what she says, the specific reason she gave for her choice was that if she didn't go she would never be invited into high society again.

So she wasn't simply chasing her dream, she was trying to prevent its dissolution. Which is an entirely different motivation.

 

And I was serious when I asked for your critique on my list. Everyone who has critiqued it before simply misunderstood everything (or in the rare case above, the fault was my oversight).

[PonyBoy15 428]

Lol so much hate in this thread.

 

Well in my opinion the most generous thing Rarity did was cut off her stylish tail for the queer dragon,

 

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

 

No problem, i always make an effort to be sincere and polite with people. I was raised by my family to show common courtesy whenever i can.

Insults and bitterness only lead arguments in circles, after all.

 

 

No offense, but this amused me slightly.

 

 

Heh. Yeahh. Everyone makes a typo sometimes I wonder if he's going to pull that spelling mistake out of the bag in his counter-argument. If he makes one...I hope he does. Not in a bad way, but I really just think he's hating on her due to a lack of insight to her character, and I want to prove this to him that you gotta look into it to see the best in Rarity.

[Whatevs 377]

Please let me handle this, Whatevs. I'm asking you kindly. You're just going to piss him off even more than you have. That'll get you reported, and I don't want to see someone defending Rarity get in trouble

 

Allow me to take this, dude. It's cool, I can handle it. I have it all under control.

okay. I will do just that. Unless he specifically tries to misrepresent my words and you don't call him on it (I don't expect you to nor would I be mad if you didn't, just to be clear)

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

That's not entirely true. If you actually listen to what she says, the specific reason she gave for her choice was that if she didn't go she would never be invited into high society again.

So she wasn't simply chasing her dream, she was trying to prevent its dissolution. Which is an entirely different motivation.

 

And I was serious when I asked for your critique on my list. Everyone who has critiqued it before simply misunderstood everything (or in the rare case above, the fault was my oversight).

 

...? What are you blabbering about?

 

If you don't chase your dream, it's going to fall apart on its own. The two are the same thing, pretty much. That's really just nitpicking, anyway. That's what got us here to begin with, remember?

[Hive King 2,001]

Ignore Whatevs. No offense to him, but I want to take care of this myself. I'm a pro at this.

 

Hmph. If you're entire argument is that she's gone greedy more than the others, you're still wrong. You're just looking at what you want to see, and that's why you're wrong.

 

I have a feeling Sweet & Elite is going to be your weapon against me here.

 

You can say she was greedy for a good, good part of that episode; she was chasing her dream, and was caught up in it, IMO, but you could still say she was being greedy, because it's reasonable.

 

What you're not taking into consideration is that she threw all of that aside and stood up for her friends in the end. In the end, she chose her friends...

 

...? So, she chose her friends over her dreams and felt remorse for her actions...but she's an awful pony.

 

That'd make sense to anyone, given everyone is a 5 year old and you're giving them a free sticker if they say they agree with you.

She's not a terrible pony, I just don't think she's worthy of the Element. She got greedy and while she got over that, she still did it.  I understand that she changed but in my recollection, she seems to be the one violating her Element more. This could just be because of Secret of My Excess but hey, I am biased towards Spike. And to Whatevs, no, I won't report you because that would be acting like a jerk. I do find it funny how you're arguing with Whatevs though

Edited November 6, 2013 by Evil Dragon Master

[Luffyiscool 397]

I really just think he's hating on her due to a lack of insight to her character, and I want to prove this to him that you gotta look into it to see the best in Rarity.

 

To be fair, he said "i don't dislike rarity as a character, i simply don't find her worthy of the element of generosity."

 

So he's not really hating on her, just providing skepticism for her elemental position.

[Whatevs 377]

She's not a terrible pony, I just don't think she's worthy of the Element. She got greedy and while she got over that, she still did it.  I understand that she changed but in my recollection, she seems to be the one violating her Element more. This could just be because of Secret of My Excess but hey, I am biased towards Spike. And to Whatevs, no, I won't report you because that would be acting like a jerk. I do find it funny how you're arguing with Whatevs though

Except Larson said that was wrong though. You're simply believing something that is wrong because you prefer it. Here I'll even link it for you

http://derpibooru.org/9797

[Hive King 2,001]

For the tenth time, I don't dislike Rarity! I dislike Discord and Trixie, but not Rarity. I actually like Rarity quite a bit but if she was a different Element(perhaps bonding friends?) I think she would fit better. ^I've seen that but still, I believe what I see with my own eyes. I may sound stubborn, but I am. I am a believer of this chain of canon.

 

What we see>Author intent

Edited November 7, 2013 by Evil Dragon Master

[Whatevs 377]

...? What are you blabbering about?

 

If you don't chase your dream, it's going to fall apart on its own. The two are the same thing, pretty much. That's really just nitpicking, anyway. That's what got us here to begin with, remember?

Nothing, I'm just actually citing what she says and her specific motivation. Because I feel the more honest we are about her motivations the better, distorting her motives is what they do.

 

As for Evil Dragon Master, if that's your issue then consider her the Element of Inspiration.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Whatevs

[Hive King 2,001]

Nothing, I'm just actually citing what she says and her specific motivation. Because I feel the more honest we are about her motivations the better, distorting her motives is what they do.

 

As for Evil Dragon Master, if that's your issue then consider her the Element of Inspiration.

That actually fits pretty well. I apologize for calling you a fanboy and retcon my insults about you just for that awesome suggestion(my complaints on her greed still stand though)

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

She's not a terrible pony, I just don't think she's worthy of the Element. She got greedy and while she got over that, she still did it.  I understand that she changed but in my recollection, she seems to be the one violating her Element more. This could just be because of Secret of My Excess but hey, I am biased towards Spike. And to Whatevs, no, I won't report you because that would be acting like a jerk. I do find it funny how you're arguing with Whatevs though

 

K. I'm staying on topic here.

 

Putting Your Hoof Down.

 

Fluttershy broke her element here, obviously.

 

The Best Night Ever.

 

Fluttershy broke her element here by *attempting* to force the animals in the garden to love her. I don't find bursting into a room, violently screaming "YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE ME!!!" very kind.

 

Dragon Quest.

 

She kicked RD's ass (not really intentionally, but still, I can make the same arguments you are to make it still wrong.), simply because she was afraid to go see dragons. Now, that has nothing to do with kindness, but what has to do with it is that RD went to go see her Butterfly migration with her, and RD didn't want to go. Not returning favors doesn't represent kindness very well.

 

I have 3 instances off of the top of my head of Fluttershy being unkind. 3. But, the only facts and not perceptions in your argument is around that number.

 

I can make the exact same case you're making, about how Fluttershy doesn't represent kindness very well. Because, right now, we only want facts, not opinions. You should agree, based on facts, that Fluttershy represents her element as well as Rarity does.

 

We only want facts, because they eliminate any bias from the argument. Opinions are biased. Facts aren't arguable.

 

Off Topic: I don't think you dislike Rarity, you hammered that into my head pretty well I just don't think you're looking at her element from the right angle to understand how generous she really is. I'm just trying to prove my point here, that she does deserve to represent her element No problems between us, dude

[Hive King 2,001]

K. I'm staying on topic here.

 

Putting Your Hoof Down.

 

Fluttershy broke her element here, obviously.

 

The Best Night Ever.

 

Fluttershy broke her element here by *attempting* to force the animals in the garden to love her. I don't find bursting into a room, violently screaming "YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE ME!!!" very kind.

 

Dragon Quest.

 

She kicked RD's ass (not really intentionally, but still, I can make the same arguments you are to make it still wrong.), simply because she was afraid to go see dragons. Now, that has nothing to do with kindness, but what has to do with it is that RD went to go see her Butterfly migration with her, and RD didn't want to go. Not returning favors doesn't represent kindness very well.

 

I have 3 instances off of the top of my head of Fluttershy being unkind. 3. But, the only facts and not perceptions in your argument is around that number.

 

I can make the exact same case you're making, about how Fluttershy doesn't represent kindness very well. Because, right now, we only want facts, not opinions. You should agree, based on facts, that Fluttershy represents her element as well as Rarity does.

 

We only want facts, because they eliminate any bias from the argument. Opinions are biased. Facts aren't arguable.

 

Off Topic: I don't think you dislike Rarity, you hammered that into my head pretty well I just don't think you're looking at her element from the right angle to understand how generous she really is. I'm just trying to prove my point here, that she does deserve to represent her element No problems between us, dude

I could probably counter the Fluttershy points given some time(Fluttershy fanboy)but I see your point. It's just that ever since episode 1, I've always had a sort of nagging feeling that Rarity doesn't deserve it. I have no clue why

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

I could probably counter the Fluttershy points given some time(Fluttershy fanboy)but I see your point. It's just that ever since episode 1, I've always had a sort of nagging feeling that Rarity doesn't deserve it. I have no clue why

No, you couldn't Those are facts. And I know this was a low blow, but I did know that you were a Fluttershy fanboy before I posted this. That's why I chose her. But, hey, you pretty much said the same things about Rarity, and I'm a Rarity fanboy, so I could say this makes us even.

 

...but, even though those are facts, Fluttershy deserves to represent her element just as much as Rarity or any of the others, because there's about that many facts for each of the 5, barring Twilight, probably, about how they broke their element. Your argument was based on perception, which is easy to see why you don't think Rarity deserves her element as much as the others, because of how easy she is to misjudge. If you looked into her character a little more, you'd understand how generous she really is.

 

It all comes down to it being perception isn't fact, unless it can be backed up with facts, and we need facts here Perception is useless at times like this.

 

I hope you get my point now, dude

[Hive King 2,001]

No, you couldn't Those are facts. And I know this was a low blow, but I did know that you were a Fluttershy fanboy before I posted this. That's why I chose her. But, hey, you pretty much said the same things about Rarity, and I'm a Rarity fanboy, so I could say this makes us even.

 

...but, even though those are facts, Fluttershy deserves to represent her element just as much as Rarity or any of the others, because there's about that many facts for each of the 5, barring Twilight, probably, about how they broke their element. Your argument was based on perception, which is easy to see why you don't think Rarity deserves her element as much as the others, because of how easy she is to misjudge. If you looked into her character a little more, you'd understand how generous she really is.

 

It all comes down to it being perception isn't fact, unless it can be backed up with facts, and we need facts here Perception is useless at times like this.

 

I hope you get my point now, dude

Alright, I accept defeat but as for Fluttershy

 

1. Yeah, okay, that was a good example

2, 3. Fluttershy wan't being cruel as that implies causing pain with the intention of causing pain. With the animals, that was the exact opposite of what she wanted and with Rainbow, she didn't intend to hurt Rainbow. 

 

Please don't argue back, I accept defeat

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

Please don't argue back, I accept defeat

 

Meh. I wasn't trying to win. I was trying to open your mind, dude As for 2 and 3, as you said it for Rarity: It doesn't change the fact she did it...

 

...but we're done here I don't like having to do this, but...it gets really neccessary sometimes. I mean, so much unfounded Rarity hate all of the time...it really can bother a person, you know?