S08:E22 - What Lies Beneath

[JCKane 345]

I gotta say.  I enjoyed this one. Always like the whole "Test" based episodes where they need to prove their worth or what not.  This one did it fine.

And Aww The dragon I forgot her name... looked so adorable in that dress!  :3

Anyways, more curious about what's next for the tree of life.  Should be interesting.

[ShootingStar159 2,156]

First off...Ha! I called it! The Tree of Harmony is sentient and is growing and changing just like any other living thing.

 

This was a really good episode, it might even make my top ten of all time. I’ll have to see it a few more times to get all thoughts together first though.

Edited September 24, 2018 by ShootingStar159

[Steve Piranha 29,424]

Beautiful humanized episode scene

[Senko 459]

3 hours ago, ImpctR said:

^ What's the point of entering here then, does one expect to read posts and not get spoiled at the same time (if the spoilers are for the same episode)? Anyway, the past 4 episodes this inclusive has been with some of the good writers and made nice episodes, this episodes did not disappoint, it is awesome, have some small remarks. Let's see:

 

An episode focused entirely on the Student Six. I've mentioned it and will again, I find these six sooo adorable and I've been shipping them since the first episodes they had them, they are already much more interesting to me than the CMCs have ever been.

Here comes a little remark, it seems that when someone asks something (in the air), something non-natural around them will always become alive and start speaking and pointing it out. In Shadow Play it was when trying to figure out how to activate the stone pillars when placing items, here it is the Tree of Harmony suddenly can become a ghost and living being speaking to the Student Six, and in some cases the Map will magically point out or notify the ponies. Like really couldn't somepony figure things out on their own? I will accept this because nature or a tree seen as a spirit like nature's spirit has been done I guess.

Cozy Glow is such a lil manipulator, wanting to break their friendship. Does the crystal cave lead to the Tree of Harmony, is it the same cave? Like with the pond of too many Pinkie Pies?

Silverstream's place: The grunts, the face of the Storm King, more and more revealing for the movie, that anyone should have watched by now.

 

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Gallus: TFW he was just about to exit and messed up the last beam to close it entirely, ouch!

Smoulder: I had a hard time knowing she or he, now I know for sure, she has always been cute and my most/2nd fave! Those ponies were right she was cute, before putting on the make-up.

 

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Ocellus: Ahh the flashback of what Changelings looked like and Chrysalis appearance in same episode as the Storm King, feels good! 

So was Sandbar thirsty for leadership? He wants to be more important like the Mane 6.

And there I see two shipping materials that I totally dig! This, and 

 

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this 

 

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And finally, you lil devil Cozy are totally up to something (I dont watch further episodes by this time), I was only expecting this face from her:  (no not fab more like green eyes for evil)

 

Assuming that ^ is aimed it me its because I've watched the links here in the later episodes for them and know what's coming but unless someone PM's me specifically otherwise (and then only in PM's) I assume the person I'm talking to (in this case Ganondorf8) is sticking to the official releases on tv/streaming for their home. My comment above is very minor and only spoilered for general caution but in case the person I was talking hasn't seen the season finale I'm not saying anything more on that subject until its officially aired and then in its thread not this one. Afterall there is a difference between entering this thread and expecting spoilers for what lies beneath if you haven't seen it and entering it after seeing it only to have the season finale spoiled for you.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

And we already have an official name for the ship on derpibooru.

[ImpctR 155]

11 hours ago, Senko said:

Assuming that ^ is aimed it me its because I've watched the links here in the later episodes for them and know what's coming but unless someone PM's me specifically otherwise (and then only in PM's) I assume the person I'm talking to (in this case Ganondorf8) is sticking to the official releases on tv/streaming for their home. My comment above is very minor and only spoilered for general caution but in case the person I was talking hasn't seen the season finale I'm not saying anything more on that subject until its officially aired and then in its thread not this one. Afterall there is a difference between entering this thread and expecting spoilers for what lies beneath if you haven't seen it and entering it after seeing it only to have the season finale spoiled for you.

Yes of course, that's appreciated, I follow the official releases too.

[Brainstorm 4,108]

I found it cool that the Student Six overcame their fears, especially Ocellus and Silverstream. It was cool seeing that the Tree of Harmony was using images Twilight and the others to not only communicate with them, but also help them over came their problems.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

4 minutes ago, Brainstorm said:

I found it cool that the Student Six overcame their fears, especially Ocellus and Silverstream. It was cool seeing that the Tree of Harmony was using images Twilight and the others to not only communicate with them, but also help them over came their problems.

I would say it was those two that NEEDED the support of their friends to overcome their fears - The remaining four found inner strength.

[Brainstorm 4,108]

26 minutes ago, Cypherhoof said:

I would say it was those two that NEEDED the support of their friends to overcome their fears - The remaining four found inner strength.

I see.

You can't blame Ocellus and Silverstream can you? After what Crystalias and Storm King done to them, you can't blame them for feeling afraid.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Brainstorm

[CypherHoof 26,483]

21 minutes ago, Brainstorm said:

I see.

You can't blame Ocellus and Silverstream can you? After what Crystalias and Storm King done to them, you can't blame them for feeling afraid.

Not blaming them - It is a complex episode, and each had to face a different challenge.

  Ocullus was facing her own internal fear, that she wasn't worthy of her evolved "glitterbug" status, and could revert. Smolder, by sharing her own guilty secret and inviting Ocullus to join her for a teaparty, reassured Ocullus that she was wanted by her inner circle of friends still.  Ocullus is very much the group's Fluttershy though; on her own, she is likely to be dominated by her fears, but with their support could well face down dragons.  Looking forward to seeing how she develops.

  Silverstream appears to be traumatized by the Storm King period of her life, and could do with some councilling (there is a purple unicorn that could help there, methinks) but again, Gallus, who had only just overcome his own fears, was there to support her (and no doubt launch much shipping) and this WAS her worst fear; possibly against some other challenge, she would have fared better, but she was unable to overcome her worst fears (as Gallus and Yona did) on her own.

  I don't think Smolder's challenge was particularly challenging (admitting she likes cute stuff?) and Sandbar's wasn't much better (defying perceived authority figures to display loyalty to his friends, but he seemed fairly certain they weren't the real Dashie and Rarity) but as their challenges were pulled from their own psyche, presumably they just haven't had as much trauma in their lives as the others.

 

[Nye 1,652]

Something about Cozy in this episode seemed off.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

5 minutes ago, Nye said:

Something about Cozy in this episode seemed off.

[avoids giving spoilers by force of will]

 

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Where do I even start with this episode? Ughh...soooooo good!

But seriously...Cozy Glow with her antics...gotta watch that filly. So many great highlights here...

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Yona has her own tiny army, Fluttershy would be proud. In Equestria, spiders are cute creatures. I cant remember any typical fantasy that feature spiders as likable creature. Plz educate me.

Gallus is the best survivor. 

Silverstream finally overcome her fear. The funny part about it is she only talks big to the image of a dead guy. Her race is saved because of ponies, not their own determination. 

Chrysalis is just too cool for Ocellus. See Chrysalis sobbing somehow indirectly ruin her character image. If the real Chrysalis sobbing like a little girl, plz someone kill me.

Smolder finally embrace her feminism side.

Sandbar's oblivious take most of episode duration. At least, that guy stand up to his teachers, it's satisfying me.

The nuke weapon of Equestria has developed intelligence?!?!? Twilight should keep this info away from the outsiders, not lecture them like a biology lesson.

"hoho, we have the weapon that can neutralize anything and six of us are activation code. You want to know more?!"

Sparkling Twilight is sparkling. The elements used Twilight as its avatar to communicate with the Student 6 is super cool. I have nothing to poke fun at this beside Sparkling Twilight with weird face expression, it looks like some higher entities take mortal form to communicate with their kinds. (perfect)

And now we got Cozy Glowed. I know one person who still believe Cozy Glow is nothing suspicious at all, even after Friendship University. Can wait for his reaction.

Another great episode, 9/10. The combo just wont stop. 

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Overall, I'd say that this is another okay episode, and another one that I don't really have any big issues with. The episode did seem a little too direct in fulfilling its goals of setting Cozy Glow up as a villain, expanding the Student Six's characterization, laying the foundation for the finale, etc.; consequently, parts of this episode seemed a little clunky. But there were a number of other good moments throughout the episode that were interesting and/or entertaining. I don't think I knew, for example, that Ocellus has a horrible past and apparently participated in some evil deeds as a changeling, or that Sandbar has particularly admired the Mane Six. And it was nice to see, for example, Smolder's inviting Ocellus to a top-secret tea party, and Silverstream's interactions with Gallus.

One scene that I found particularly jarring is when Cozy Glow gives her patronizing and backhanded "compliments" to the Student Six. One moment the Student Six are all laughing at Ocellus's impressions, then the next moment, out of nowhere, Cozy Glow is pushing Ocellus aside to make her declaration. I'm presuming that Cozy Glow has some evil intentions to sow doubt/distrust/dislike among the Student Six, but why do that in this situation and in this kind of clumsy manner? Was Cozy Glow's little speech pre-planned, with her just waiting for the right time to say it, and for some reason, she thought that this was a good opportunity to interrupt and deploy it? Or did Cozy Glow just feel a spontaneous urge at that moment to break up the Student Six's camaraderie, and what she said wasn't planned ahead of time? And with the way that Cozy Glow's speech played out, did the Student Six say anything to each other about how weird, insulting, and condescending Cozy Glow was being? After the scene change, the Student Six are just reading silently, so I don't know.

I don't think I have any other big points to make, so here's the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

I missed this myself, but I saw it pointed out that when Twilight reminds the class about the test tomorrow, Cozy Glow is the only student who's excited about it; even smartypants Ocellus groans with the rest of the class. Maybe that behavior on Cozy Glow's part should be viewed as suspicious in itself - after all, what kind of student gets excited about taking a test, even if it's a subject that one likes and is good at?

Why is there a grate by the tree in the courtyard that leads to this underground cave system? And then why is there another grate in the school library that apparently leads to the same cave system? At first I thought that the outside grate was like a storm drain or something, but then it wouldn't make much sense for a grate in the school library to lead to the storm drain system. Are the grates supposed to be an outlet to prevent natural buildup of gases in the underground cave system? But then why would they want to vent such gases indoors in the library? Were the underground caves repurposed to be part of the school's ventilation system? Are they another emergency exit or something, similar to the secret passage to the swamp we saw in "The End In Friend"?

Ocellus's impressions of Twilight and Applejack are almost scary in their accuracy; Ocellus could probably do some real damage impersonating them if she wanted to.

The Tree of Harmony seems to be making the Student Six believe that if they don't pass its test, then they'll be forced to stay in the underground cave system with no one else knowing that they're down there. And Gallus, at least, appears to be in a legitimately dangerous situation. But maybe we're supposed to assume that the Tree of Harmony wouldn't have actually allowed the Student Six to come to harm.

The two tea party ponies suggest that Smolder is afraid to be cute and adorable, or afraid to admit that she likes it. But Smolder would seem to have good reason not to want to sit and make idle (and vapid) conversation with strangers at a tea party, regardless of how "cute and adorable" it is - she wants to find her friends and find a way out before sunrise, and she might think that sitting and chatting wouldn't help her to do those things.

The whole thing about Smolder's being afraid to admit to not minding cute stuff brought to mind one of the dragons back in "Gauntlet of Fire" that wanted to become Dragon Lord in order to pillage Equestria for all of their pillows, because the dragons just sleep on rocks. Couldn't wanting nice, soft, comfortable pillows made by ponies also be viewed as "wussy" or whatever? But that shows that there's at least one more dragon (other than Smolder, Spike, and Ember) who likes at least that aspect of pony culture.

Regarding Gallus's and Yona's tests, I think those would be scary for plenty of other people, too. We don't need to be claustrophobic to find a shrinking room that threatens to crush or trap us scary, nor would we need to be arachnophobic to find a giant swarm of spiders pursuing and cornering us scary (as evidenced by the other Student Six's reactions when Yona comes running in with the swarm of spiders). And sure, this particular swarm of spiders turned out to be friendly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that other spiders that Yona encounters later will be the same way.

In Sandbar's test, it would seem well within reason for Sandbar to ask where he and "Rarity" and "Rainbow" are going, or how long it's going to take to get there. It's also funny that Sandbar is "tempted" by the prospect of going on a friendship adventure, and perhaps making a name for himself in the process, when he seems to be fairly widely viewed as the most forgettable of the Student Six.

For Silverstream's test, if the Storm King and his minions are just shadows on the cave walls, then what was supposed to be making the menacing growling noise?

The events of "Princess Twilight Sparkle" would probably have gone a lot more smoothly if the Tree of Harmony were able to make this kind of projection and, say, tell the Mane Six where it is and that it was in danger. But I guess the Tree didn't have enough power or hadn't grown enough yet to be able to do that.

At the end of the episode, Cozy Glow begs the Student Six not to tell the Mane Eight about this, because she doesn't want to get in trouble and get expelled. So what, the Student Six can't even say that they saw the grate open in the library and discovered the underground cave system, and once they were down there, the Tree of Harmony talked to them and tested them on their friendship? I guess the idea is that if the Student Six told that story, then the Mane Eight would ask about why the Tree of Harmony was poking up from under the school and felt the need to test the Student Six, and then they would have to say that Cozy Glow's words to them planted doubt and caused their friendship to suffer.

On 9/22/2018 at 5:23 PM, Truffles said:

At first blush, Sandbar's issue with trying to impress the Mane 6 seems trivial. However, now seeing this episode again after seeing the finale does create a bit of an "Aha!" moment for future events. I hope that's obtuse enough to not be a spoiler.

I'll have to keep this in mind, it's more fun to have a sort of mystery to look out for when watching an episode in the future!

[Sonic5421 423]

I forgot to post my thoughts on this episode back on Saturday due to other obligations, but despite my blunder, I really enjoyed the episode myself.

It was interesting to see the Tree of Harmony test the Young Six to ensure that their broken self-confidence caused by Cozy instilling seeds of doubt in their heads could be overcome by having them conquer their worst fears. Out of all of them, I really liked Silverstream and Ocellus the most as they dealt with their pasts regarding the Storm King and Queen Chrysalis.

Silver was fearful that the Storm King would return and capture Novo, Skystar, Terramar, and everyone else after failing to do so last time when Tempest tried to steal Novo's Pearl of Transformation and had the Storm Guards lay waste to Mount Aris, but with Gallus' support, she was able to find the courage, and anger, to tell the visions of the Storm King and his Storm Guards off, proving that she was no longer scared of them, and her kind would not have to fear them any longer as well.

Ocellus was fearful of the face that some may still see the Changelings as the love-craving monsters they were under Chrysalis, despite having Thorax as their new leader and having made amends with the Mane Six and Royal Family, but with Smolder's support, she was able to accept that the Changelings truly had changed for the better, there was no need to fear her past anymore, and was able to overcome her trauma.

As for the end, there was something suspicious about Cozy with how she interrupted the Young Six with their intent to tell the Mane Six about what happened with the Tree of Harmony and then looked down at where the Tree's roots were after they all fell asleep. Something tells me she has a sinister plan in store, and her cute innocent act is a ruse for her true personality. Only makes sense because her cutie mark is a chess piece, and chess requires strategy and cunning to win.

Overall, great episode that focused on the Young Six, so I'll give it a 9.5/10, maybe a full 10/10 as my final rating.

[Princess_Bellalatanya 1,053]

Just watched what lies beneath, although confusing the tree of hsrmony physically being located deep in evergreen Forest, apparently using a visual manifestation of twilight to test the "next generation" of it's elements,as being shown as in school raze. Interesting to see the tree manifest itself as a pony though,letting it "talk" in a way

•  

[Twilight Luna 31,360]

I’ve already seen the finale. So I’m keeping my mouth shut as to what will happen. As for this episode, I like that the episode title has a double meaning. Not only does it explode what lies beneath the school but also what lies beneath the tough exterior of the student six. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

16 minutes ago, Twilight Luna said:

I’ve already seen the finale. So I’m keeping my mouth shut as to what will happen. As for this episode, I like that the episode title has a double meaning. Not only does it explode what lies beneath the school but also what lies beneath the tough exterior of the student six. 

Also the lack of truth shown by a certain little filly...

[ImpctR 155]

I don't know what's in the next episodes so based on the guesses, I like the idea of the School 6 becoming the new Element bearers of harmony, though something tells me they could be new symbols of the Tree, while the Mane 6 still keep their role.Cozy Glow's cutie mark, the two rooks, I didn't pay attention it means manipulation like a chess board until now. I thought it was some sort of 'logic' mark. Though, pawns would have conveyed that meaning better.

Spoiler

 

On 8/29/2018 at 6:03 AM, TwilySparky said:

Want to know how I came to this realization? Right at the end of the episode she goes to look in the vent where three of harmony was. I remember earlier in the season that Chrysalis wanted the tree of harmony. It all makes sense now.

I thought so too but she doesn't have the green eyes we saw the photographer in the Mean 6 had, not that she couldn't be for the sake of camouflage, still think she's like a pawn to Chrysalis for some promises that Chrys won't fulfill for her.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by ImpctR

[CypherHoof 26,483]

49 minutes ago, ImpctR said:

I don't know what's in the next episodes so based on the guesses, I like the idea of the School 6 becoming the new Element bearers of harmony, though something tells me they could be new symbols of the Tree, while the Mane 6 still keep their role.

Cozy Glow's cutie mark, the two rooks, I didn't pay attention it means manipulation like a chess board until now. I thought it was some sort of 'logic' mark. Though, pawns would have conveyed that meaning better.

Applegeek has a lot to say about this, as per usual

Just finished watching his blind react, and he has a theory that Cozy isn't a pawn, but also isn't a queen...  but is somewhere in the middle, hence the rook.

 

 

[Cirrus. 1,089]

"Well, somebody but me gets to be a tree...again."

"But that's OK I guess."

Edited September 26, 2018 by Cirrus.

[Cash In 22,305]

I liked it. I'm not a huge fan of the Student Six, but this was a good episode for them. Good jokes and good development. Also, I guess I'll address the elephant in the room - what's with that Cozy Glow? She's sending me...mixed signals.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Cash_In

[Justin_Case001 4,888]

 

Wow.  This was big.  So, the tree is intelligent and self aware after all...

 

Holy hobgoblins, Batman, that's amazing.  What a huge development, and what a great episode.  I think this was an excellent decision, and a great development for the tree.  It explains everything.  It was my headcanon from the beginning that Starswirl somehow planted or otherwise created the tree and, by extension the elements (apologies for the self horn tooting ), but that didn't explain how it was able to do many of the things it has done, chief of which being Twilight's castle, which was obviously designed specifically for them even though old Beardo couldn't have known about them.  My further headcanon was always that Starswirl, whether intentionally or not, made the tree to be able to learn, grow, and adapt.  I hypothesized that anything that the tree, or that which was born of the tree (i.e. the castle and the map), "sees" would cause it to learn.  I saw examples of this, such as the map being able to call Spike.  How would the map know how to activate his glow-y scales?  Then I remembered that the map "saw" that happen when the former dragonlord called Spike, and the map then learned how to do it and remembered.  It would seem that this episode confirms that heacanon, so I'm two for two on the tree.  (My horn's gonna get worn out from all this tooting.  )

Maybe I'm biased because this episode confirmed a headcanon, but I think it was great regardless.  This development explains everything that the tree was able to do, and it all makes sense, now.  I'm speculating that it didn't start out sentient, but became so somewhere along the way.  Whether that was before or during the show is uncertain.  But now it is, and that's pretty crazy, and pretty cool.

There's just one thing--I feel kinda bad for the others, especially Twi.  They have no idea that the tree is literally sentient at this point, let alone the fact that it can communicate.  Sure, Twilight said that it's "like" it has a mind of its own, but she doesn't know the full extent of it.  She's just speculating, as I was.  I really hope that the tree communes with Twilight at some point, not to mention the Sisters (who's cutie marks are also on the friggin' thing), and Starswirl, who made the friggin' thing.  They all deserve to talk to it, and I hope that happens.  Maybe they're saving that for the series finale.  That would be a great series-long lore tie-in.  I hope that happens.

The story was great.  The tree's trials were great.  The whole seeing-their-fears thing was great.  (Creepy Dagobah cave from Empire Strikes Back, anypony?  There's nothing in the school basement, except what you take with you...)  The episode made me like the student six more.  I love Smolder to pieces.  She's heart-attacking-ly adorable, and the fact that she likes cute things makes her even more adorable.  I love the fact that they made her like cute things.  Do I detect a hint of meta brony awareness?  I saw a bit of us, there.  We like cute things, but the world tells us we shouldn't.  Smolder makes for a good role model--it's okay to like stuff even if some people don't get it or want to make fun of you for it.  And even though Smolder is precious, she simultaneously manages to be awesome and badass, which I'm sure would delight her to no end.  Another good lesson--we're not just one thing.  We can have many different sides to us.

I do hope the students tells Twilight about their experience with the tree.  Why wouldn't they?  They intended to, and then things seemed to shift when Cozy Glow cooked up this story about why they weren't prepared for the test.  Why would Cozy lie like that?  And furthermore, what the f*ck is up with that psycho filly?  Is she Chrysalis, or is she just a psycho?  When she was trying to sow the seeds of doubt among the student six, I theorized that she was Chrissy, but I guess not.  She's just whacked.  I mean, what was with her at the ending, there?  Lookin' all ominous, lookin' at the basement door like she's got some sinister plot.  The hell?  I'm tellin' ya, that chick is evil.  That pony ain't right at all.  They'd better watch out for her.  If they don't nip this one in the bud, the School of Friendship is gonna make the headlines for the next school shooting.

Spoiler

 

 

[NavelColt 22,880]

Very, very neat episode. Seeing the Tree of Harmony's sentience in action feels like a minor subplot idea that's finally been confirmed, and in a satisfying way, no less. We've seen the map carry a mind of its own, but now we have confirmation that the tree is a far more than just a magical plant; it could have been acting as a silent guide behind the scenes for the Mane Six and many other characters from the getgo. A tad creepy, but extremely awesome.

Of course, this all the more makes me crave seeing Discord further interact with the Tree of Harmony in the future. If the tree is sentient, then what does it think of Discord? Discord may be air quotes 'reformed', but he is still the tree's polar opposite in every way, the opposite representation in nature, and lest we forget, Discord tried to undermine and cease its power four seasons ago. 

My guess? They have a love hate relationship.