S08:E25+26 - School Raze

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

Pretty good.  Overall, I liked it.  Some gripes.  Some grievances that need airing.  Let's start with the good.  (Like anyone's actually gonna read this massive text wall.)

Firstly, I'm really glad that Cozy actually did come back and be a villain, simply because I was afraid that the sinister ending shot of What Lies Beneath was just going to be another Fluttershy bat fang.  That said, I find it odd that Cozy was able to do all that stuff.  I mean, I know she had coaching from T. Wrecked over there, but that's not really what I mean.  What I'm talking about is--how is a little filly so malicious, so intelligent, and so driven as to actually seek a terrifying, colossal f*ck like Tirek in the first place, and then execute this mastermind plot?  Isn't she just a frickin' kid?  Geezus, she's like, even younger than the CMC, isn't she?  How was a kid able to do that stuff?!  And that ending!  Geeze.  So creepy.  I still think there's more to her than meets the eye.  Actually, I was legitimately waiting the entire episode for her to transform into Chrysalis.  Seriously, I was!  I think it would have been an awesome, next-level move to reveal that there was never any such pony as Cozy, and every time she ever appeared, it was Chrissy.  How cool would that have been?  But man, was is her deal, really?

I liked all the writing.  The characters were good.  The dialogue was good.  No immature crap.  That's nice.  They managed to do a good job of including nearly every character, which is also nice.  Woulda been kinda cool if Ember and Steve (Thorax) could have helped, but by the time the ponies knew there was a problem, there was no way to get word to them fast enough.

I had a feeling Chancellor Racism was going to come around by the end.  That was nice, but the transformations are always too fast.  But that's okay.  They always have a limited amount of time to work with.  I actually thought that the best and most mature message of the episode was when the student six helped Neighsay by freeing him.  It would have been so easy and so tempting for them to just say, "F*ck him.  Let him rot."  I mean, he was an a**hole; wouldn't most people kinda feel like just letting him get what he deserved?  His just desserts?  But the student six knew better.  They learned better.  Revenge doesn't solve anything.  Rather than just letting Neighsay rot, thus reinforcing his prejudices of them, the students knew that the way you change someone's mind is to show them you're not what they think--you're better than that.  You don't treat someone badly just because they treated you badly.  The best way to get trust, help, and kindness is to give it.  The students really showed amazing development, there.

It was really cool that they included Tirek again.  I kept speculating that Chrissy was going to be part of it somehow, but I didn't see Tirek coming.  That was neat.  Of course, we know that Chrissy is out there, spending every waking second plotting, but I guess they're saving that, probably for the series finale.  (Please don't reform her, please don't reform her, please don't reform her, please don't reform her...)

I was also cool that we got to see Tartarus more properly.  It was never really 100% clear whether it was a physical place in the world, or some other dimension like Discord's home.  Now we know: physical place.  You can just walk there.  Interesting.  Seemed kind small.  It looked like it was just a single cave with some cages.  I was under the impression that it was a massive landscape, mostly underground.  I was basically picturing the Pit of Tartarus from God of War III, and the cave where Tirek resides is just one little bit of it.  But it didn't look like there was anything else.  Kinda strange.  I thought it was more of a land, a realm.  Is it just a prison?

Now for the gripes, starting right there with Tartarus.  That whole situation seems kinda f*cked up to me.  These critters just sit there in cages all the time?  They're just piled up, cages stacked on top of each other, thrown in a pile to rot, and that's it?  Does anyone take care of these creatures?  I don't think Cerbs is fetching them dinner.  Do these creatures get any food?!  Even maximum security prisoners irl have rudimentary beds, yard time, and food.  These creatures seriously just sit in metal cages so small they can barely move?  Many of them (possibly most of them), aren't evil like Tirek is.  They're just animals.  Fluttershy even said that.  I really don't think bugbears and cockatrices are evil.  They're just animals.  They're just too dangerous to be left to roam around near populated areas.  But should they really be stuffed in cages in a cave to rot forever?  There's gotta be a better solution than that.  I'm not sure what, but Tartarus just seems messed up.  I mean, Tirek should be executed; that much is certain.  But the others don't deserve to rot there forever.  And what about freakin' Cozy Glow?  Now she's in a cage there?!  Once again, isn't she just a frickin' kid?  They put a kid in a cage in a cave to rot forever?  Yeah, she's a sniveling little b*tch, but you don't just lock a kid in a cage forever, no matter how troubled they are.  Doesn't she have parents?!  Or legal guardians?  I mean, if she doesn't, then how did she even get to the school?  Won't somebody be pissed that she's in a cage in a cave?  Is there gonna be a conversation a week from now where AJ says, "Hey, did we remember to tell Cozy's parents that we locked her in Tartarus?" and then Twilight goes, "Oh sh*t.  Whoops."  Is there gonna be a massive lawsuit and sh*tstorm for Celestia to clean up?  The whole thing seems fishy.

Then there's the matter of the whole basic premise.  I don't really like the way magic works.  I never have.  Magic is apparently something that can not only be drained, but moved--taken out of the pony and relocated or redistributed.  I've never liked that.  This episode wasn't any sort of continuity error.  They stuck to the lore they've established quite well.  They established magic as functioning this way in Twilight's Kingdom.  It's not something we think about much, but this episode brought it back.  Magic functions like an independent entity, not necessarily even unique to the individual, but something that can be removed.  The other alicorns transferred their magic to Twilight, and now we saw that other magical creatures can transfer their magic to others voluntarily.  Apparently, one can just go, "Here you go," and give magic like handing someone a pencil.  Can all creatures do this?  Could any unicorn transfer magic to others?  Can they remove their magic from themselves and store somewhere?  Could Rarity remove her magic and put it in a box?  Ship it to Coco Pommel?  "Here, darling: thought you could use this."  It's just weird, and I've never liked it because I don't feel like we've ever gotten a decent explanation of how it works.  I think it makes much more sense for magic to actually be a permanent part of the individual's anatomy, literally part of their cellular physiology.  Like mutants in X-Men.  You could still have magic eaters like Tirek, (similar to Rogue) but you wouldn't be able to just pick up and move an individual's magic.  Magic should just work like normal, cellular energy--like muscles.  You use it too much, you get fatigued, you rest, you eat, it comes back.  But this magic-can-be-removed-and-now-it's-gone-forever flim flam just doesn't make any sense to me. 

Furthermore, I don't like this thing where the creatures in Tartarus apparently become regular-ass, ordinary, everyday animals, or whatever the sh*t, without their magic.  I'd have to rewatch and pause to see exactly, but I guess they can just transfer their magic away and suddenly the chimera is just a tiger, and the bugbear is just a panda, or whatever?  No f*ckin' sense, dude.  That makes NO SENSE.  They're just animals.  The chimera is a multi-headed beast.  That's its anatomy, its physiological DNA.  How could it just become some normal creature by sucking magic out of it?  *SIGH*, I guess that's how it works, but I don't like it.

To that end, I've seen some comments on here debating why the vortex didn't affect "pegasi flight magic".  To that, I would be inclined to say: THEY'RE NOT MAGIC.  They just have wings.  That's not magic.  They don't fly by magic.  They fly by muscles.  They flap their wings up and down.  Having wings does not a magical creature make.  News flash: some real animals have wings.  Horses might have, too, but they just don't.  Didn't evolve that way.  But they could have, on some other world, maybe.  There's nothing magical about an animal having wings.  Now, I know all MLP ponies have some amount of magic, because they have magically appearing cutie marks, and I know that there would seem to be some kind of latent magic involved with pegasi being able to walk on clouds, but even if that was all drained, THEIR MUSCLES WOULD STILL WORK.  They could still flap their wings.  But I can hear the counter arguments, now: "But...but...but...the Tartarus creatures!  That's proof that if you suck out the magic, everything becomes normal animals, so pegasi would lose their wings!"  Well, I dunno.  Maybe you're right, I guess.  I can't offer a good explanation as to the Tartarus creatures, but if I were to attempt to explain them, I'd say that it was a lame, inconsistent, poorly thought-out decision.  It makes no sense, and I'm not prepared to accept that as proof that all creatures will turn into normal animals by having magic sucked out of them.  The unicorns didn't lose their horns, after all!  "But...but...but...the vortex thingy didn't finish!!  They still had some magic!!"  *Sarcastic tone*  But...but...but.... the alicorns transferred ALL of their magic to Twi in Twilight's Kingdom, right down to whatever makes their cutie marks.  They had nothing left, to make sure Tirek couldn't find any of it, but they still had horns and wings, because that was part of their frickin' body.  I don't know what the deal is with the Tartarus creatures, but I don't think Pegasi need magic to fly, and I don't think every creature would start losing body parts without magic.  Pegasi are not magical creatures (besides the latent bits I mentioned).  They're mythical irl, because they don't really exist, but they could.  They're just a normal species in the pony world.

And how about the magic sucking vortex?  One thing that bothered me is this central theme of "Equestrian" magic being drained.  The writers do realize that Equestria isn't a dimension or a magical bubble that differs from the rest of the world, right?  It's just a country.  It's just a piece of land that was settled by the three pony tribes approximately 1100 years ago.  Its borders are just as arbitrary as borders in real life.  They're just lines on a map.  If you cross out of Equestria, you haven't left some magical bubble and crossed into normal space or something.  There was magic long before Equestria (for starters, the Sisters and Starswirl predate Equestria), and there's magic outside of Equestria.  But they made it sound like the vortex somehow specifically targeted Equestrian magic, as if that's a thing.  There's no such thing as "Equestrian" magic, per se.  That would be like saying that there's a difference between American mathematics and Asian mathematics.  2+2 = 4 wherever you go.  Likewise, magic is just magic.  There's naturally occurring magic all over the world (such as the mirror pool), and there's magic-using individuals all over the world (such as the Kirin).  You cannot just flip the Equestrian magic switch to the off position and suddenly there's no magic in Equestria, ever, ever.  So, what I want to know is...what the hell was the deal with the vortex, really?  Does it just have a fixed radius that happens to be approximately that of Equestria?  If so, then would all the other creatures of the world still have magic?  It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that's because the whole removable magic thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense to begin with.  It's like pony magic is an Xbox Live gamertag.  You can delete it, you can move it, but you can't copy it.

But, it is what it is, and the story was still enjoyable.  I care more about the characterization than I do the lore details, anyway.

By far my biggest disappointment, however, was the fact they didn't end up destroying the school.  I think they absolutely should have.  No, no, hang on, hear me out on this.  One of them (forget who), said that pulling the artifacts out could cause a feedback loop that could destroy the school.  And given the title, School RAZE, I totally thought that's where they were going with it.  When the students made the decision to remove the artifacts and told the others to get clear, I was so sure that it was going to blow up.  (And....like, maybe Starlight would have somehow saved the student six or something.)  But I thought that the whole point was going to be that the students were prepared to sacrifice their school to save the world, thus being this really noble decision.  I wanted the whole school to be reduced to rubble.  And then here would be the ending:

Twilight walks through the smoldering rubble with the mane 6 and the Sisters.  The student 6 then approach and apologize for what happened.  Twilight would say, "It's okay.  This school is...just a school.  A building.  It's just four walls, a floor and a ceiling.  It's not that important.  You knew what was more important.  You were ready to sacrifice the school, and maybe even yourselves, to save magic in all of Equestria.  That's real friendship, and it's more than I could have ever hoped to teach you in a classroom.  I'm so glad you learned that, and I'm so proud of you."  Then Celestia would ask Twilight, "What will you do now?"  Twilight would think for a moment, and  then with a determined little glimmer of hope in her eye, she'd say, "We'll rebuild it.  Just the way it was.  Brick for brick."  The mane 6 would gather around her and say, "And we'll all be here to help."  And then the student 6 would say, "You can count on us, too."  Pretty soon all the other students would gather 'round and chime in, all eager to help.  It would be at this moment that Neighsay would come forward and surprise everyone by saying, "And I will help, too.  I was wrong, and I'm sorry.  I see now that there is no better pony for this job than you, Princess Twilight.  The EEA would be proud to help you rebuild your school, just as it was."  Twilight would thank eveycreature, then we'd pan out on the wreckage with all of the hopeful students and faculty gathering, then tilt up to see the setting sun, and fade out.

THERE'S your ending, bi-atch!  That would have been sooo much better.  That would have rocked.  Man, I'm so bummed they didn't do it that way.

Another possible, much darker but still awesome ending, would be that the vortex finished, and magic was permanently removed from the land, or so it would seem.  Everypony is devastated, and they all go home in defeat.  Then for the last shot, Celestia is sitting in a park in Manehatten at a little table with a cup of tea, wearing a coat and hat on because she's now ashamed to recognized.  She looks sort of sullen, then closes her eyes and concentrates hard, and we see the faintest flicker of a soft yellow glow on her horn, so small and brief you could miss it if you blink, and then her teacup would wobble just the tiniest hair, and BAM, cut to the credits.  So, yeah, I just love that X-Men: The Last Stand ending so much.  Even though the movie on the whole was crap, that ending was so awesome, and I've always wanted that scene with a unicorn or alicorn on Pony.  That'd be so cool.  Anyway, pay me no mind.  I'm just a goof.

All in all, I'm pleased.  I mean, at least the finale was up to normal Pony standards, unlike Non-Compete or Fake It, or some of the other crap this season.

Well, that's it for the reviews for now.  Before I go, it's time for one last important thing: my season 9 wishlist!! 

• Sisters spotlight with backstory (Royal Problem was okay, not great, and I want Sisters backstory)
• Zecora spotlight (I know--hell will freeze over first.  I can still dream...)
• Limestone and Marble Pie co-star spotlight (I know, right?!  How AMAZING would that be??!!)
• Spike finds his real parents.  Preferably an epic two-part season premiere in the dragonlands.  (Probably never gonna happen.  They kinda shut the door on this.  )
• Ponytones reunion
• Futtershy's bat fang resolution
• Learn how Bright Mac and Pear Butter died
• CMC open the Cutie Mark Counselor's office in Ponyville.
• Rainbow spotlight where we actually get to see her fly with the 'bolts for more than 2 seconds.
• Flurry Heart is eaten by a hydra.  (  What?  Yeah, so sue me...)
• Confirm my headcanon that Starlight is the descendant of Starswirl.  (Her cutie mark is a star with a swirl around it...)
• The mane 6, the Sisters, and Starswirl learn of the Tree's sentience and commune with it.  (This is a serious one.  Gonna be super pissed if this doesn't happen.)

I know--I'll be lucky if I get just one of these.  (Please be the Flurry Heart one, please be the Flurry Heart one...)

Good freakin' Celestia, that was a long one.  Alright.  Till next time.

[ImpctR 155]

On 10/17/2018 at 4:08 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

While Yona and the other non-pegasus ponies fall through the clouds when Starlight's spell gives out, Smolder, Silverstream, Gallus, and Ocellus don't. So dragons, hippogriffs, griffons, and changelings all have the inherent ability to walk on clouds? Earlier, when Ocellus said "Wow! I've never stood on a cloud before!" and Starlight said "You can't normally. But for our trip, I cast a spell that lets us walk like Pegasi", did that "you" and that "us" not actually refer to Ocellus or the other three? Has Ocellus never stood on a cloud before just because she's never tried it before?

Also, changelings allegedly are natural fliers (even reformed) like pegasi, alicorns and gryphons and dragons, and hyppogryphs. Those should probably have never been having trouble flying without magic.

 

And yes, as some said why would she be put near Tirek? For plot of course. One that would be interesting if it involved more villains at once. I post a little more about it here.

[Thrond 3,263]

12 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

 To that end, I've seen some comments on here debating why the vortex didn't affect "pegasi flight magic".  To that, I would be inclined to say: THEY'RE NOT MAGIC.  They just have wings.  That's not magic.  They don't fly by magic.  They fly by muscles.  They flap their wings up and down.  Having wings does not a magical creature make.  News flash: some real animals have wings.  Horses might have, too, but they just don't.  Didn't evolve that way.  But they could have, on some other world, maybe.  There's nothing magical about an animal having wings.  Now, I know all MLP ponies have some amount of magic, because they have magically appearing cutie marks, and I know that there would seem to be some kind of latent magic involved with pegasi being able to walk on clouds, but even if that was all drained, THEIR MUSCLES WOULD STILL WORK.  They could still flap their wings.  But I can hear the counter arguments, now: "But...but...but...the Tartarus creatures!  That's proof that if you suck out the magic, everything becomes normal animals, so pegasi would lose their wings!"  Well, I dunno.  Maybe you're right, I guess.  I can't offer a good explanation as to the Tartarus creatures, but if I were to attempt to explain them, I'd say that it was a lame, inconsistent, poorly thought-out decision.  It makes no sense, and I'm not prepared to accept that as proof that all creatures will turn into normal animals by having magic sucked out of them.  The unicorns didn't lose their horns, after all!  

I'm thinking more about Dash being able to deal with the clouds. That seems like some kind of magic to me. 

[CypherHoof 26,482]

1 minute ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I'm thinking more about Dash being able to deal with the clouds. That seems like some kind of magic to me. 

I think "wingpower" is a form of equestrian magic - pegasi can not only use it to fly themselves, but to support other things (such as carts and entire moving vans) against the force of gravity. Clearly the wings themselves couldn't support their weight (look at the tiny wings on bulk biceps, for example)

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:02 PM, gingerninja666 said:

My theory is that Pegasi and Earth Pony magic (along with Cutie mark magic) exists in the same class of magic as the sort that kept those creatures in Tartarus together. It's a magic that makes up what they are on a fundamental level. It's not an overt form of magic that they emit or cast like magical items or unicorn spells or cockatrice stone stares. This type of magic wasn't covered by the scope of Cozy's ritual because it's too deeply ingrained.

Yes good thought. I just noticed in the MLP Movie that even after Twilight has her magic taken by the Storm King she retains her Alicorn flying ability and cutie mark, so some types of magic as well as the spells to remove magic must be different. Since Twilight uses Tirek's magic to remove the creature magic, and when Tirek stole magic in season 4 the flying of pegasus ponies,  strength of earth ponies, and cutie marks, were removed Tirek must be powerful enough to remove what you describe as "fundamental magic" what I call "internal magic". Starlight and the Alicorn princesses may also be powerful enough to move and remove "internal magic" because we saw the princesses lose their cutie marks when they transfer magic to Twilight in season 4 and obviously Starlight flat out removing cutie marks and switching cutie marks of princesses. But Cozy must only have the ability to remove what I call "external" magic which are spells and artifacts.  The limits to Cozy's power likely have to do with the artifacts and obviously the fact she lacks a horn. 

[Cash In 22,214]

It was fine. The Cozy Glow twist was okay, but I already knew something was off after "What Lies Beneath." It got a bit difficult for me to keep up here, because this finale was absolutely bloated with characters. The Mane Six, Student Six, CMCs, Starlight, Cozy Glow, Tirek, Chancellor Neighsay. I mean, Jesus Christ. I will say that The final scene does have my quite intrigued for things to come. We can only see where it goes...

Edited November 7, 2021 by Cash_In

[YoshiAngemon 223]

17 hours ago, Cash In said:

The final scene does have my quite intrigued for things to come. We can only see where it goes...

How about a season premiere that has the two teaming up and escaping, and meeting the villain of the final season: Grogar? And it evolves into a story arc that would be HALF as epic as any seen on Dragon Ball Z, because it would involve the ULTIMATE Bad Guy team-up, between Tirek, Grogar, Cozy Glow, Chrysalis, Flim and Flam, Lightning Dust, and even Garble and his band of jerks! Like how they would cause Twilight Sparkle to turn evil, and go against all that she has learned and taught! It might lead to her Friends trying to restore her through a CLIP SHOW! And it would resolve an Epic Pony War in a way similar to Sailor Moon, and would end with Twilight becoming HIGH PRINCESS OF EQUESTRIA, taking Celestia's place, and the story of Twilight Sparkle being read by her daughter, or a student of her teachings in the future. Now I'm in the mood for some Sailor Moon Crystal!

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by YoshiAngemon

[Dabmanz 2,139]

I just finished season 8 and wow this was actually pretty good.

Spoiler

I suspected Cozy Glow would have something to do with it except the thing I hypothesized wrong is I thought she was working for Queen Chrysalis. 

 

[rainbowdashacademy 114]

Everypony,  do you think I'm right that the JUDAS PRIEST song fits Cozy Glow well ? "DEVIL'S CHILD"  I believe Cozy Glows is the devils child she'll never let me go ohhhh no she's so damn wicked she got her claws stuck in me that bitch will never let me go !!!  I believe she's the Devil's Child !  What do you think ponies and Pegasus ?

[Kevin Tang 2,426]

Cozy Glow is a great villain

I wonder what the future of Equestria would be if they lost all of their magic. they might become just like us. XD

I wish I can see the alternate universe of that scenario.

[Sh Pie 65]

This was a tolerable season finale, probably the least satisfying so far. It had a lot of problems. Like the S6 finale, the Mane 6 were useless and in the background. Even worse, their attempt to escape made it seem like they were still going to be important later, but after using the creatures' magic to unlock the door, Twilight immediately declares they failed. They could have been trapped in Tartarus and the climax wouldn't have changed. With magic restored, they would have escaped anyway and Twilight could just teleport everypony to the school. Their focus was meaningless. These are the protagonists we're talking about here, surely they should be in the foreground for these important end of the world plots. Even Starlight and the CMC were useless. The Student 6 shouldn't have been the heroes to save the day since they're essentially supporting characters like the CMC used to be and they haven't been around for longer than a season.

I am left with more questions than answers. So Cozy Glow isn't Chrysalis or a relative of Neighsay, rather she's just a random filly who for some reason is on a power trip and tried to use friendship to conquer Equestria? Where is the backstory? Why is she evil? Unlike the S5 finale, which explained why Starlight was a villain, we don't actually learn anything about Cozy and her motivations. Also, doesn't locking her up in Tartarus:

1) Contradict the moral of the S7 finale that bad guys can be redeemed without banishment or imprisonment?

2) Reduce her chance of rehabilitation by putting her in a cell adjacent to one of the most evil bad guys ever?

3) Seem extreme considering she's just a poor misguided filly?

After restraining the Student 6, Neighsay declares himself headstallion and that the school will be pony only "as nature intended". I'm not sure what he meant by this considering that creatures besides ponies do exist in nature. Perhaps he thought he was enforcing some kind of natural order of society by running the school according to the EEA's rules. Although, enforcing something doesn't really sound natural and sure enough, the students instantly mutinize him. He should choose his words more carefully. On an unrelated note, I thought Sandbar maybe could have gave his friends a wink wink gesture to let them know his bluff. At least Yona had faith in him.

Overall, this finale has left me wanting more, not in a good way. Usually, a finale would end with an upbeat song about friendship or everypony being happy and closer together. Instead, it's almost like the show itself acknowledges how anticlimactic this all is, by Cozy taking the focus in the last scene before the credits. Whatever the writers may have in store for this character next season, I feel like I should have seen it already, like her arc is deliberately being stretched out when it could have been resolved more smoothly. Despite my heavy criticism of this finale, I did like Cozy's callback to Neighsay's line about using friendship as a weapon and that's exactly what happened. If only her plan was better executed.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

2 hours ago, Sh Pie said:

This was a tolerable season finale, probably the least satisfying so far. It had a lot of problems. Like the S6 finale, the Mane 6 were useless and in the background.

At least they had more lines.

[gingerninja666 487]

I honestly think that giving the Mane 6 more focus harmed this finale. It's like they only included more of them to try and curb complaints similar to the ones in To Where and Back Again. I feel like they weren't needed much after the end of part 1. Where Tirek reveals Cozy Glow's true nature.

The writers wanted the student 6 to save the day, so they should've just gone with that. Cut the Tartarus plot and give that time to either the students or Cozy or NEighsay. They're the ones who are really important to the story.

I liked the finale well enough, but I really didn't need the Mane 6 butting in just to remind us they exist when it isn't important to the story.

[Truffles 2,033]

First swing at some replies. More in coming day(s):

On 9/9/2018 at 8:42 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Tirek looked for revenge and got it. But he had a major flaw in the plan: The RM7 were going to be stuck with him, and without his magic, they're free to make fun of him and harass him.

It's easy to imagine his plan was something along the lines of expecting the Mane 6 to be feeling completely hopeless trapped in Tartarus with no magics and he'd be the one tormenting them. Since he doesn't understand friendship, he wouldn't expect they'd be able to keep each other's spirits up and figure out a way to escape, allowing Pinkie to fulfill her role as Mane Annoyance. XD

So the flaw in his plan is completely plausible.

 

On 9/10/2018 at 10:57 AM, gingerninja666 said:

When we hear this line, we're already into day three of the spell (as seen by how NEighsay's medalion struggles to work). So the magic drain on these creatures should be complete already. Yet this internal magic remained. I think this is what Earth Pony and Pegasi magic is like. It makes them up, rather than being a projected expression of magic like unicorn spells, enchantments and stuff like the ray of a cockatrice's stare.

At first I didn't understand why (or how) Cozy Glow wouldn't realize by draining all the magic she'd be clipping her own wings as well. I suppose the inference is that perhaps she just didn't care that she'd never be able to fly again and having the popular power to overthrow all the now-impotent princesses was more important? A fair trade, I reckon. She was essentially turning Equestria into something more akin to our world, where physical power, physics and chemistry are the rule of the day instead of magic.

 

On 9/10/2018 at 7:35 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

The vortex was supposed to eventually drain Equestria of its magic, and in the climax, it was revealed that Celestia, Luna, or their army were likely unable to fly. So why were Cozy, Dash, and some pegasi able to fly at all? Is the magic drained here related to pony flight or not at all? This is really confusing and borders on plot hole territory.

I saw this and @KH7672's reply. Both good points. I can think of one in-universe explanation and that's they were flying but since it was now the third day they all decided to land out of precaution in case their flying ability failed early. Of course, it didn't appear they had gotten very far from the capitol so I'm not sure it's an ideal solution.

 

On 10/13/2018 at 12:16 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Everything she does is calculating. Manipulative to the core, cunning, intelligent, competent.

She's a villain that utilizes the most powerful weapon of all: Her brain.

 

[gingerninja666 487]

9 minutes ago, Bas said:

I meanwhile got some mindflashes and wonder;

- Why did she care so much for helping the CMC episodes earlier? Was that to get energy off from friendship?

- Then if so, why did she start a fighting between the y6 in What lies beneath? This looks counter-intuitive with what I concluded above.

- Also, were her thoughts honest when she tried to make them arguing? As in, did she believe what she said or was it just a measure to get them fighting internally?

- And, assuming Cozy Glow did have anything to do with them going underneath the school to the tree, why did she? What did she gain from it?

- Weirdly, why did the spirit of the tree of harmony test the young 6, but not her? And how was she able to control it's power so easily then?

Based on this finale alone, I don't think Cozy glow is thinking of power in terms of "If I gain friends I can blow up cities with lasers". She's thinking that if she gains lots of people who will listen to her, she's functionally powerful. Which she proves several times by leveraging the students to do her bidding. If the entire country listens to her, then she IS the most powerful being in Equestria. Especially if there's no other magic.

• With the CMC, I think either she genuinely didn't get the theory of friendship at first and needed their help, or she was trying to do something special that would make her stand out. If she could help the CMC get into the school, they would be proud of her and Twilight would be impressed with her.
• I think she turned the Student 6 on each other so that they would be further inclined to listen to her, actually. She was trying to make them doubt themselves, make them think they didn't know as much about friendship as they thought, so that she could swoop in and help him. Be a good friend.
• The tree helping them wasn't what she expected, so she had to improvise an apology and a new way to "help" them.
• Based just on the lines in What Lies Beneath, the tree seemed to have some kind of blind spot when it came to Cozy. It didn't know why the Students had turned against each other.

Quote

"It is as I feared. You are not one. What has happened?"

 

[Singe 2,111]

Neighsay gives up too easily on his trust issues with other creatures and on Twilight. Everything he was right to question given the history of past seasons and her mistakes gets swept under the rug. Instead of completely bowing down they come to a middle ground agreement view..  

Edited October 29, 2018 by Singe

[Truffles 2,033]

On 10/14/2018 at 1:08 AM, bwrosas said:

heck she was already technically killing Starlight by having her kept in that orb, tricked the Mane 6 and Spike into traveling into Tatruas and trapping them there

The orb was a vehicle to send whatever was in it to another dimension (like the EqG universe or the sock puppet dimension Discord was going to send Tree Hugger). So Starlight wouldn't have died since it presumably would have opened when it reached its destination. And all of the captured magic would have been released there, so Starlight would have gotten her magic powers back when she arrived.

I don't know how long the Mane 6 and Spike would survive in Tartarus. There isn't any detail on whether there's food and water available, or whether Luna has to resupply it via portal - which wouldn't be possible anymore. However, with magic gone Tartarus would just become another cave so presumably everyone could have been dug out at some point.

 

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Do none of these students question or think it a little strange that they're doing all of these things at the behest of a kid? And yet it apparently took the Student Six's "sacrificing" themselves trying to save each other to cause the students to question Cozy Glow and what they've been doing.

It's possible Cozy was "greasing the hooves" of the other students all year long off-screen like we saw her do early in this episode, and that's why most of the other students were enamored with her and didn't question her actions. Cozy is so manipulative with her words, she's more like a cult leader than a student. Fellow former cult leader Starlight even noticed this in Cozy's first appearance, so I get the feeling this was DHX's intent with her.

Even if Cozy did the same favors for the Student 6, it took a student like Smolder to be suspicious of her. Either dragons really are naturally suspicious (now I'm being racist, lol), or Smolder was still on guard for such shenanigans after the incident with Sludge. Since the rest of the Student 6 are close friends with Smolder, they didn't take too kindly to Cozy's racist remarks about their friend and so they because suspicious, too.

Heh, if it really was Sludge that was the catalyst for Smolder to question Cozy's authority, does that mean he inadvertently saved the world?

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

The Student Six see Cozy Glow come out of the catacombs underneath the school, and apparently none of them think to investigate what she was doing down there first. (Later on, Yona even asks why Sandbar is leading the Student Six back into the catacombs, even though they all saw Cozy Glow suspiciously emerging from there earlier.) If the Student Six do think that Cozy Glow is up to something, wouldn't it be better to try to find out what she's up to while she thinks that nobody knows what she's doing?

I was wondering why the Student 6 didn't decide to check out the catacombs instead of following Cozy. I didn't think it was necessarily a bad decision on their part per se, but it seemed like a viable option and would have gotten to the bottom of things quicker than what they did by eavesdropping on her and Neighsay. Though I have to admit, a lot of that thinking is due to my playing the Elder Scrolls games like Skyrim, where the first order of business is to wait for the NPC to leave the area and then rummage around in all their belongings to see what they're up to, lol.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Also, what is the mechanism by which Neighsay believes that the non-pony Student Six - probably the equivalent of teenagers, no less - are stealing all of Equestria's magic? Is it just a reflection of his ignorance and arrogance that he would assume that they're behind this even without any plausible theory of how they would be doing it?

Sadly, Neighsay probably believes his own rhetoric, even if it's illogical. Just watching the news the past week makes me more convinced than ever politicians get caught up in their lies and believe their own stories about outsider bogeymen who are coming to "invade."

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Rainbow matter-of-factly tells Tirek that the Mane Seven are out of magic keys and that nobody can open the door, and the rest of the Mane Seven seem to react as though this is news to them. So did this only occur to Rainbow after the doors had closed?

Yeah, this was a bit of a stretch. When Twilight realized the key was single-use only, she should have thought that was suspicious - especially since she saw first hand she couldn't open the door with her magic. I'm not sure what she was thinking the mechanism would be to re-open the doors to get back out again. Usually, prisons are locked on the inside to keep whoever is in there from getting out, right? XD

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Cozy Glow thinks that if she's the headmare of the School of Friendship, then no one will have more friends than she will, and that will therefore make her "the most powerful pony in Equestria". But we've only ever seen at best a couple dozen or so students at the school. Does no one else in Equestria have more than a couple dozen or so friends? How many friends or ponies loyal to Celestia and Luna does Cozy Glow think there are, to give the most obvious example?

I imagine that as a "cult leader," she would have her followers evangelize her virtues in hopes of turning enough of the citizens to her side so as to make it difficult for Celestia and Luna to rule. Whether this would actually work is questionable, but it's enough that she believes she has that ability for her plan to make sense.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Is Starlight supposed to have been a student of friendship under Twilight for a significantly longer period of time than the Student Six have been students at the School of Friendship? Were the friendship lessons that Starlight completed supposed to have been significantly more rigorous than those that the Student Six have completed so far?

My guess is Twilight simply had more one-on-one time to teach Starlight than she does with a school full of students, where she (and the rest of the Mane 6) have to spread their time across dozens if not more students attending the school. So the possibility that Starlight's lessons were more rigorous seems likely.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight says that Cozy Glow is like her "right-hoof pony", which leads me to wonder how many "right-hoof creatures" Twilight is juggling at this point. Spike is Twilight's original #1 assistant, of course, and at least at one point, Owlowiscious was also supposed to be Twilight's helper. But now apparently Cozy Glow makes for the third one that Twilight has.

Yeah. That was a little off-putting to hear her say that, though I don't think she meant any disrespect to Spike. It may even be Spike has his claws full helping keeping the school running, even though there hasn't been mention of what that job is, exactly. I suspect he has too do a bit of everything whenever the Mane 6 or Starlight need some extra help, including filling in as a substitute teacher - which he has done on at least two occasions.

Of course, seeing him picking up after Discord in "A Matter of Principals" makes me think he also has janitorial duties, similar to his cleaning duties at the castle.

Speaking of which, I'm surprised it hasn't become a mess due to his absence. Then again, it was in pretty bad shape in the HWE special.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Has Ocellus never stood on a cloud before just because she's never tried it before?

Considering her young age and how she was under the control of Chrysalis, it wouldn't surprise me if she hadn't gotten the opportunity to every do that until now.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight briefly considers closing the school and sending the students home, but quickly abandons that idea. If this doesn't qualify as enough of an emergency to close the school and send the students home, then what would?

Heh, good question. I suppose there would be some risk in sending everyone off unexpectedly like that, since without magic there would be no way to communicate to the parents their children were returning home and some of the kids could get lost.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

I'm a little surprised that a Sapphire Shores concert was still being held even as magic was disappearing all across Equestria. I might think that that would be a little bit of a national emergency, and that people would be concerned about security and their ability to travel and whatnot.

Another good catch. Though the concert tickets Cozy was promising may have been worthless and the students she was promising them to simply didn't think ahead to realize that the concert might be cancelled. Alternatively, Sapphire Shores does strike me as the type of pony who believes "The show must go on," so perhaps her concert would be more acoustical and less spectacle? If it has been the other celebrity, Rara, she would have no problem doing a glitz-less concert since that what the point of her episode.

On 10/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

The door to the room that the rest of the Student Six were locked into looks as though it's made of wood, so couldn't Smolder try to burn it down? Or if not the door, then is the window frame burnable? Or even the wooden floor? Is Smolder supposed to have lost the ability to breathe fire at this point?

If she still had her fire, that would be a great opportunity to burn down the school like Rockhoof feared. XD However, since neither she nor Spike used their fire until magic returned, we can't say either way whether their fire is magical or physical.

Speaking of which, I'm confused more than ever now about Spike's message sending ability. First of all, at the beginning when Celestia's message got stuck in his throat, was that because of his magic failing or Celestia's magic failing? The episode isn't clear on this. Even more confusing is the scene of him giving the diplomas to the students. Everything we know about his messaging ability indicates someone like Celestia has to send the scroll. But here, he's conjuring them up, seemingly out of nowhere! If that's not the case, then who was working with him to send the diplomas via his fire breath? And since he stopped before he could finish giving out all the diplomas, if someone was sending them how would they also know to stop? The mystery of this ability deepens.

 

On 10/18/2018 at 4:17 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Do these creatures get any food?!  Even maximum security prisoners irl have rudimentary beds, yard time, and food.

I would think a guard pony (or maybe Cerberus if he's intelligent enough) would go around and feed the prisoners. Where the food comes from is a mystery. Is there a massive stash somewhere of insta-meals that can be restored by adding water? Or perhaps that portal Luna opened at the end is how food is delivered? Presumably without magic Tararus would have to be closed or rebuilt into a more standard prison.

On 10/18/2018 at 4:17 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Is there gonna be a conversation a week from now where AJ says, "Hey, did we remember to tell Cozy's parents that we locked her in Tartarus?" and then Twilight goes, "Oh sh*t.  Whoops." 

Cozy's parents are a significant blind spot in her character arc, and not just in this episode.  I can just imagine if Sludge was the one telling this tale of Cozy Glow to a bunch of random ponies, some of them might question it at the end. Asking obvious questions like, "So just how did Cozy arrive at the school and why haven't we ever seen her parents? Do they even care she's in Tartarus right now?" 

[Singe 2,111]

If I would make some changes, Cozy Glow is Flash Sentry's little sister and he's also involved because he wants Twilight to be his special some pony. Huge surprise twist that would have rocked the fans.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

All while watching the finale i was like 'So...why can the pegisi fly?" if all the magic is gone? seems rather inconsistant. however, Cozy manipulation wa so eary to watch so there is that plus.

Also ...did Cozy forget that Celeatia nluan NEED magic to reais the us nan dmoon. Cozy is damning the world to freeze/burn

YOung Six become elements of harmony? eh...roles already taken by the mane six why change it last second. Sure they can embody them, but taken over the roles...eh no thinaks. I"m not going ot jsut roll over an accept young six as new cast ut of nowhere.

Edited November 8, 2018 by BlinkZ

[Singe 2,111]

This episode was also missing Neighsay calling it on the line Twilight's school would doom Equestria. He was right. No school meant no Cozy Glow power grab. He was also right to question if the Mane 6 would run off while their school was in session as they did that, it gave Cozy the opening to enact her master plan.

So Neighsay, was proven right on some points. Just that the show will never acknowledge it.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Singe

[heavens-champion 1,905]

On 11/25/2018 at 6:08 PM, Singe said:

This episode was also missing Neighsay calling it on the line Twilight's school would doom Equestria. He was right. No school meant no Cozy Glow power grab. He was also right to question if the Mane 6 would run off while their school was in session as they did that, it gave Cozy the opening to enact her master plan.

So Neighsay, was proven right on some points. Just that the show will never acknowledge it.

So they should just close it down?

[Singe 2,111]

11 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

So they should just close it down?

Or Twilight should have someone else not her friends manage the school. Princess Celestia would have someone under her manage the schools while she's doing daily royal duties.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Singe

[DubWolf 17,247]

-Where's Discord in all of this  ? I feel like either his magic was drained so he was trapped in his own realm, or he'd be too easy to use as a cop-out.

-You put a little filly in Tartarus  ? Also her motive seems.... I don't really know it  . Like just being power-hungry is kinda boring  . Surely something else motivated her  .

-Pinkie's da best, how friendly she could be even around Tirek albeit trying to frustrate him.

-Ending sort of implies we're not through with her, sort of, so that's one loose end to tie or just forget about. Like is that the end of it; have her stuck in Tartarus forever  ?

[heavens-champion 1,905]

Why am I the only one wondering why Nicole Dubuc wrote part 1 while Josh Haber wrote part 2?

[BlinkZ 1,151]

Still sort of bugs me hwo the Tree of harmony Just does nothing while Cozy Glow does her master plan RIGHT in front of its roots. Yet, when the young six wonder down by accident in What lies beneath it is all "Who goes there!"

The tree saving the young six at the end just felt like the writers wrote themselves into the corner.