spoiler S09:E16 - A Trivial Pursuit

StitchandMLPlover · August 20, 2019

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Getting stressed is something that tryhards do, or should I say getting psyched. They're after the sweet victory after all. You smile when it's over, or if you did something awesome. Though, in this particular case Twilight got titled. She got tilted hard. The show also exaggerates all the behavior, so there's that. Still nothing compared to some random moba games. Twilight got her shit straight when she interacted with Sunburst. I doubt that talking to Pinkie before that would do her any good. Anyhow, my original point still stands: different fun for different people. The show and the Bronies shall not dictate how and with whom one must have fun. This episode goes against my claim. My second point also stands: good friends understand how each of them likes to have fun. Twilight and Pinkie are not shown as good friends no matter the outcome of the episode.

That's exactly it. They'd only invite Pinkie when it would benefit them which is probably never. Friendship is magic HO!

Nobody is stopping you from having your own fun. That is your business. We are analyzing fictional characters who were written by other people and the character’s choices, I’m never here to judge your real life choices. I’m not dictating anything whatsoever. Only giving my opinion. Of course the show exaggerates behavior. The writers exaggerate the characters all the time to make a point. I think both Pinkie Pie and Twilight are over exaggerated and OOC here(I think this episode might have worked better with 2 members of Student 6 instead) and yes the show does have a habit of writing Pinkie Pie as being in the right quite a lot. Talking to Pinkie Pie may not have done Twilight any good but hypothetically, if you wanted to have Pinkie be more evenly in the wrong along with Twilight, a scene in which Twilight explains how badly she wants to win and that this anxiety inducing behavior is her way to have fun which Pinkie later ignores is the ONLY way them both being wrong can be written properly. Hypothetically in order to write an episode where Twilight pairs with Sunburst and Pinkie with Cranky the writers would still have to establish that disqualifying Pinkie Pie was wrong and give Twi karma in some way because even if Bronies don’t like it the show is owned by Hasbro who targets programs to 6 to 12 yr olds and Twilight’s behavior is completely inappropriate sportsmanship. Children should not be encouraged to be obsessive about winning in the manner Twi was regardless of how much “fun” Twi or Sunburst have. “Fun” doesn’t justify tricking others or hurting them and Twi had intent to disqualify Pinkie. The way the writers set up the game with it being open to any pony and Twilight not even really bothering to coach Pinkie leaves it so open ended that your idea of Pinkie screwing up Twilight’s fun barely comes across, if at all IMHO. Pinkie Pie is included in most episodes and interacts well with characters. Pinkie Pie is loyal and takes things seriously. Pinkie CLEARLY DID give a crap! Just my 2 cents.

StitchandMLPlover · August 20, 2019

5 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Things weren't actually any better with Sunburst though. Then it was just him keeping her out of the game, trying to do it all on his own. Nothing was ever going 'well' for Twilight that whole time.

How about forgetting Pinkie for a moment, bickering over whether or not she was pushing her fun over Twi's, or trying to control Twilight's definition of fun, and instead trusting Spike's judgement? For all intents and purposes, he's the Princess's closest advisor. Spike knows Twilight's breakdowns better than anyone, the episode opens with him knowing that one is coming, and he's trying to prevent it before it starts. That's not a question of his fun vs. hers. If Twilight was truly enjoying it, Spike wouldn't be intervening. How often do you suppose professional competitors have to breathe into paper bags just to keep from passing out due to hyperventilation? That's beyond tryharding. If we're going to still argue that Twilight was enjoying it, then we might as well start debating BDSM.

YES! Exactly! I think Spike could tell immediately in the cold open Twi was about to go too far and once they got to the Trivia game he tried to follow up and bring her back down to earth by reminding her of her Princess status etc. Granny Smith and some others also picked up on Twi's over doing it.

Goat-kun · August 20, 2019

16 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Things weren't actually any better with Sunburst though. Then it was just him keeping her out of the game, trying to do it all on his own. Nothing was ever going 'well' for Twilight that whole time.

How about forgetting Pinkie for a moment, bickering over whether or not she was pushing her fun over Twi's, or trying to control Twilight's definition of fun, and instead trusting Spike's judgement? For all intents and purposes, he's the Princess's closest advisor. Spike knows Twilight's breakdowns better than anyone, the episode opens with him knowing that one is coming, and he's trying to prevent it before it starts. That's not a question of his fun vs. hers. If Twilight was truly enjoying it, Spike wouldn't be intervening. How often do you suppose professional competitors have to breathe into paper bags just to keep from passing out due to hyperventilation? That's beyond tryharding. If we're going to still argue that Twilight was enjoying it, then we might as well start debating BDSM.

We might as well. Some of you might benefit. I did say she was tilting, did I not? Twilight is prone to such behavior and Spike is fully aware of that. However, if Twilight was not enjoying an activity she herself wanted to join, then Spike would comment on that and try to talk her out of it.

Let's get back to tryhards. Once they get the mid-or-feed out of their system they can enjoy the game together way more than a tryhard and some noob spamming emotes. Harmony ain't gonna send you to heaven so don't be afraid to make things fun for yourself

Ashen Pathfinder · August 20, 2019

While this is far from my favorite of season 9...I surprisingly enjoyed this a lot more than I expected I would. I mean yeah, everything was exaggerated to all hell and the lesson was one that Twilight should've already had down to heart, but complex beings being complex...I could totally see this happen. In the end, it was just a fun episode for the most part, and it's all I could ask from the given synopsis.

Goat-kun · August 20, 2019

12 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

Nobody is stopping you from having your own fun. That is your business. We are analyzing fictional characters who were written by other people and the character’s choices, I’m never here to judge your real life choices. I’m not dictating anything whatsoever. Only giving my opinion. Of course the show exaggerates behavior. The writers exaggerate the characters all the time to make a point. I think both Pinkie Pie and Twilight are over exaggerated and OOC here(I think this episode might have worked better with 2 members of Student 6 instead) and yes the show does have a habit of writing Pinkie Pie as being in the right quite a lot. Talking to Pinkie Pie may not have done Twilight any good but hypothetically, if you wanted to have Pinkie be more evenly in the wrong along with Twilight, a scene in which Twilight explains how badly she wants to win and that this anxiety inducing behavior is her way to have fun which Pinkie later ignores is the ONLY way them both being wrong can be written properly. Hypothetically in order to write an episode where Twilight pairs with Sunburst and Pinkie with Cranky the writers would still have to establish that disqualifying Pinkie Pie was wrong and give Twi karma in some way because even if Bronies don’t like it the show is owned by Hasbro who targets programs to 6 to 12 yr olds and Twilight’s behavior is completely inappropriate sportsmanship. Children should not be encouraged to be obsessive about winning in the manner Twi was regardless of how much “fun” Twi or Sunburst have. “Fun” doesn’t justify tricking others or hurting them and Twi had intent to disqualify Pinkie. The way the writers set up the game with it being open to any pony and Twilight not even really bothering to coach Pinkie leaves it so open ended that your idea of Pinkie screwing up Twilight’s fun barely comes across, if at all IMHO. Pinkie Pie is included in most episodes and interacts well with characters. Pinkie Pie is loyal and takes things seriously. Pinkie CLEARLY DID give a crap! Just my 2 cents.

That's odd coming from someone that was proselytizing about friendship lessons a few posts back. We're primarily talking about how the show is making it our business through lessons and how shit they are when one tries to apply them IRL. Placing a friend before your own fun is not something your true friend would ever want to ask of you. Of course you would do it, but that's beside the point.

And then there is this: SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN SHIT IN THE 9. SEASONS OF A SHOW THAT IS SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT FRIENDSHIP. Your entire point comes from the argument that Pinkie didn't knew, but then you tell me that she gave a shit. Either way, Pinkie was not acting as a friend since a friend would back off from screwing with something they aren't invested in. Oh the cruel irony of Brony existence.

Children should be encouraged to do the right thing. Nothing in this episode fits any example of exemplary behavior. And we're back to the first paragraph.

P.S: This is the point where a big brain skeptic analyst enters the thread and tells me that I'm wrong cause their cousin's friend's sister was saved by Pony and starts self-promoting their blog. I can hardly wait.

Justin_Case001 · August 20, 2019

Appledash and TwiPie. I see what you did, there. :orly: This episode was basically ship names and meme faces.

What's poning, ponles?

Well, it was okay. Cute. But it was one of those where we knew exactly what was going to happen. Was there any chance that Pinkie wasn't going to f*ck everything up? And was there any chance that Twilight wasn't going to get obsessed with winning, hurt Pinkie's feelings, and then learn a lesson about having fun with friends being more important than winning? :yuck: Lol. But I liked it okay.

But it kinda grinds my gears a bit how they make the protagonist out to be a jerk for wanting to win in episodes like this. Y'know, on any show. I mean, I don't think it was unreasonable for Twilight to want to win, and I don't think it was unreasonable for her to be annoyed with Pinkie, considering that Pinkie (Celestia bless her carefree little heart) is literally incapable of doing anything like this without acting like a total buffoon. I mean, if you worked really hard to prepare for something, it's reasonable for you to be annoyed if your friend sabotages it. But I guess Twilight can't really get that angry considering that it's random partners. If they had a dedicated quiz bowl team, and Pinkie came along and destroyed it, then it would be totally reasonable to want her to get lost. I guess I just always take the contrarian position and sympathize with character's original plan. I felt sorry for Twilight putting in all the hard work and then getting torpedoed by the idiot teammate.

But I still enjoyed it.

KH7672 · August 20, 2019

21 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Snip

P.S: This is the point where a big brain skeptic analyst enters the thread and tells me that I'm wrong cause their cousin's friend's sister was saved by Pony and starts self-promoting their blog. I can hardly wait.

Close, it was my cousin's sister's friend's neighbor :laugh:

And really I'm just responding for the analysis of characters but also the analysis of the shows rules.

I don't object to your better ending. However the contrived rule book along with Twi's character, wouldn't let it happen.

For the rules, Cranky was Sunburst's partner and was only disqualified for sleeping which has a less severe penalty than cheating. Cranky could rejoin and Sunburst wouldn't even have to start back from zero. Sunburst was never actually disqualified, he just couldn't be a team of one, so in essence he was just benched instead of disqualified. As per the rules established, benched players can rejoin the game with ANY other player, but disqualified players can only rejoin with the players they were originally assigned along with any other scoring stipulations. As such Pinkie can't partner with Cranky.

Now it's not like Cranky really wants to be there and isn't going to care about competing again or not. So your ending could still hold form by Twilight offering Pinkie the chance, Pinkie turning her down and say she'll continue to sit on the sidelines cheering for Team Twi-Burst, but then we call into the question of Twilight's character. Because with her established character she wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Pinkie sit out, mostly because SHE was the cause for her disqualification, and as such would feel responsible for ruining Pinkie's fun.

So what about that as an ending that has Pinkie take into account of Twi's feelings by initially rejecting the offer, and Twi still insisting because of the reasons mentioned?

StitchandMLPlover · August 20, 2019

2 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

That's odd coming from someone that was proselytizing about friendship lessons a few posts back. We're primarily talking about how the show is making it our business through lessons and how shit they are when one tries to apply them IRL. Placing a friend before your own fun is not something your true friend would ever want to ask of you. Of course you would do it, but that's beside the point.

And then there is this: SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN SHIT IN THE 9. SEASONS OF A SHOW THAT IS SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT FRIENDSHIP. Your entire point comes from the argument that Pinkie didn't knew, but then you tell me that she gave a shit. Either way, Pinkie was not acting as a friend since a friend would back off from screwing with something they aren't invested in. Oh the cruel irony of Brony existence.

Children should be encouraged to do the right thing. Nothing in this episode fits any example of exemplary behavior. And we're back to the first paragraph.

P.S: This is the point where a big brain skeptic analyst enters the thread and tells me that I'm wrong cause their cousin's friend's sister was saved by Pony and starts self-promoting their blog. I can hardly wait.

No offense but you seemed to think that I was judging your real life choices so I was addressing that. What you do after the show airs is your choice and your choice only. Funny how you seemly judged my friend for buying a DVD in real life and then suggest I’m judging you. I’m not. Sorry! Both you and my friends have free will. No disrespect intended. All opinions are valid even when I disagree. Unfortunately friendship, just like my job and school, takes certain sacrifices. I’m not allowed to hurt my friends physically and/or mentally in order to have fun! Of course my friends want me to have fun but having fun is not the most important thing in the world. I agree, Media certainly does have certain responsibilities for what it puts out to an audience. We can agree the writing is imbalanced and not good here. I completely agree the friends should not have to explain things to each other 9 seasons in! It just seemed to me that the episode writers took time to establish the connection the other characters have to Trivia trot and then had Pinkie come in randomly like she saw a flyer outside without knowing the connections the others have to the game, or the game AT ALL which is wonky. It seemed to me that Pinkie was innocently oblivious in the beginning but felt genuinely sad and concerned when she got disqualified. I’v said that from the beginning. Contrast this with “Backstage Pass” where human Pinkie Pie shows she is FULLY aware she should be standing guard in front of the Dazzlings Van and talks herself into wandering off to get needless food when Sunset needs her the most anyway!! Human Pinkie Pie actively screwed up Sunset Shimmer and I wanted human Pinkie Pie to get serious karma for it just like I want pony Twilight to get karma for actively sabotaging Pinkie. “Backstage Pass” is better written then “Trivial” because it clearly establishes that both characters care about Post Crush and know who Post Crush are, but that human Pinkie’s only desire is “fun” to an annoying degree. I wanted to smack human Pinkie. “Trivial”s plot is not set up that well.

1 hour ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Appledash and TwiPie. I see what you did, there. This episode was basically ship names and meme faces.

What's poning, ponles?

Well, it was okay. Cute. But it was one of those where we knew exactly what was going to happen. Was there any chance that Pinkie wasn't going to f*ck everything up? And was there any chance that Twilight wasn't going to get obsessed with winning, hurt Pinkie's feelings, and then learn a lesson about having fun with friends being more important than winning? Lol. But I liked it okay.

But it kinda grinds my gears a bit how they make the protagonist out to be a jerk for wanting to win in episodes like this. Y'know, on any show. I mean, I don't think it was unreasonable for Twilight to want to win, and I don't think it was unreasonable for her to be annoyed with Pinkie, considering that Pinkie (Celestia bless her carefree little heart) is literally incapable of doing anything like this without acting like a total buffoon. I mean, if you worked really hard to prepare for something, it's reasonable for you to be annoyed if your friend sabotages it. But I guess Twilight can't really get that angry considering that it's random partners. If they had a dedicated quiz bowl team, and Pinkie came along and destroyed it, then it would be totally reasonable to want her to get lost. I guess I just always take the contrarian position and sympathize with character's original plan. I felt sorry for Twilight putting in all the hard work and then getting torpedoed by the idiot teammate.

But I still enjoyed it.

Yes it’s the fact that it’s random partners that makes Twilight more in the wrong. I remember seeing a behind the scenes interview with Lauren Faust about the season 1 episode the Ticket Master where she said Hasbro wanted the characters to apologize for wanting the tickets to the gala at all and Lauren put her foot down and said “You wouldn’t ask a girl to apologize for wanting a degree/scholarship" so the episode was correctly re written as the characters apologizing for trying to force Twilight instead of apologizing for wanting something. In general Hasbro seems to have a dislike of competition and winning and it results in weird writing…

1 hour ago, KH7672 said:

Close, it was my cousin's sister's friend's neighbor

And really I'm just responding for the analysis of characters but also the analysis of the shows rules.

I don't object to your better ending. However the contrived rule book along with Twi's character, wouldn't let it happen.

For the rules, Cranky was Sunburst's partner and was only disqualified for sleeping which has a less severe penalty than cheating. Cranky could rejoin and Sunburst wouldn't even have to start back from zero. Sunburst was never actually disqualified, he just couldn't be a team of one, so in essence he was just benched instead of disqualified. As per the rules established, benched players can rejoin the game with ANY other player, but disqualified players can only rejoin with the players they were originally assigned along with any other scoring stipulations. As such Pinkie can't partner with Cranky.

Now it's not like Cranky really wants to be there and isn't going to care about competing again or not. So your ending could still hold form by Twilight offering Pinkie the chance, Pinkie turning her down and say she'll continue to sit on the sidelines cheering for Team Twi-Burst, but then we call into the question of Twilight's character. Because with her established character she wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Pinkie sit out, mostly because SHE was the cause for her disqualification, and as such would feel responsible for ruining Pinkie's fun.

So what about that as an ending that has Pinkie take into account of Twi's feelings by initially rejecting the offer, and Twi still insisting because of the reasons mentioned?

I like your ideas and analysis a lot. Yes the rules of the game and the random partnering are wonky so it throws things off. Twilight hates leaving ponies out and as we know from other episodes Twilight hates to be left out of anything herself and being left out makes her quite jealous.

Goat-kun · August 20, 2019

1 hour ago, KH7672 said:

Close, it was my cousin's sister's friend's neighbor

And really I'm just responding for the analysis of characters but also the analysis of the shows rules.

I don't object to your better ending. However the contrived rule book along with Twi's character, wouldn't let it happen.

For the rules, Cranky was Sunburst's partner and was only disqualified for sleeping which has a less severe penalty than cheating. Cranky could rejoin and Sunburst wouldn't even have to start back from zero. Sunburst was never actually disqualified, he just couldn't be a team of one, so in essence he was just benched instead of disqualified. As per the rules established, benched players can rejoin the game with ANY other player, but disqualified players can only rejoin with the players they were originally assigned along with any other scoring stipulations. As such Pinkie can't partner with Cranky.

Now it's not like Cranky really wants to be there and isn't going to care about competing again or not. So your ending could still hold form by Twilight offering Pinkie the chance, Pinkie turning her down and say she'll continue to sit on the sidelines cheering for Team Twi-Burst, but then we call into the question of Twilight's character. Because with her established character she wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Pinkie sit out, mostly because SHE was the cause for her disqualification, and as such would feel responsible for ruining Pinkie's fun.

So what about that as an ending that has Pinkie take into account of Twi's feelings by initially rejecting the offer, and Twi still insisting because of the reasons mentioned?

Such trivial things as a rule book do not matter if you are the god who holds the pen. Twilight would indeed not feel comfortable which would be fine. Pinkie urging her to do it would be the whole point of it, and since the point is the acknowledgment and acceptance of their differences, forcing themselves to try and play by each other's rules would go against the message.

Do note that this is a different message than teamwork, working together, being more than the sum of our parts and yada, yada, yada. Not sure ponies understand that one either. In fact, villains understand it better nowadays

StitchandMLPlover · August 20, 2019

27 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Such trivial things as a rule book do not matter if you are the god who holds the pen. Twilight would indeed not feel comfortable which would be fine. Pinkie urging her to do it would be the whole point of it, and since the point is the acknowledgment and acceptance of their differences, forcing themselves to try and play by each other's rules would go against the message.

Do note that this is a different message than teamwork, working together, being more than the sum of our parts and yada, yada, yada. Not sure ponies understand that one either. In fact, villains understand it better nowadays

If the partners are NOT assigned randomly and the rule book were not a factor your idea would work well. I think the reason the Villains seem better written is because they are newer, fresher writing material for the writers to chew on. The MLP staff seem to be giving plots that should go to less developed side characters like the Student 6 and the Villains, to the Mane 6 causing OOC behavior.

Goat-kun · August 20, 2019

46 minutes ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

No offense but you seemed to think that I was judging your real life choices so I was addressing that. What you do after the show airs is your choice and your choice only. Funny how you seemly judged my friend for buying a DVD in real life and then suggest I’m judging you. I’m not. Sorry! Both you and my friends have free will. No disrespect intended. All opinions are valid even when I disagree. Unfortunately friendship, just like my job and school, takes certain sacrifices. I’m not allowed to hurt my friends physically and/or mentally in order to have fun! Of course my friends want me to have fun but having fun is not the most important thing in the world. I agree, Media certainly does have certain responsibilities for what it puts out to an audience. We can agree the writing is imbalanced and not good here. I completely agree the friends should not have to explain things to each other 9 seasons in! It just seemed to me that the episode writers took time to establish the connection the other characters have to Trivia trot and then had Pinkie come in randomly like she saw a flyer outside without knowing the connections the others have to the game, or the game AT ALL which is wonky. It seemed to me that Pinkie was innocently oblivious in the beginning but felt genuinely sad and concerned when she got disqualified. I’v said that from the beginning. Contrast this with “Backstage Pass” where human Pinkie Pie shows she is FULLY aware she should be standing guard in front of the Dazzlings Van and talks herself into wandering off to get needless food when Sunset needs her the most anyway!! Human Pinkie Pie actively screwed up Sunset Shimmer and I wanted human Pinkie Pie to get serious karma for it just like I want pony Twilight to get karma for actively sabotaging Pinkie. “Backstage Pass” is better written then “Trivial” because it clearly establishes that both characters care about Post Crush and know who Post Crush are, but that human Pinkie’s only desire is “fun” to an annoying degree. I wanted to smack human Pinkie. “Trivial”s plot is not set up that well.

Feel free to judge. I don't mind. My ire is not directed at you. It is and always was directed at our glorious writers. Though, I will occasionally snap at a white knight, socialist, or "skeptic analyst". You won't see those posts since they are a bit too spicy to be left around by the mods.

One should not put a message before a hero's traveled path, and no ill-conceived rules of utopia should ever substitute that which makes us human. Perhaps our glorious writers have forgotten that children are humans too. The world is seen differently through their eyes yet it is still the same world that we are watching.

4 minutes ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

If the partners are NOT assigned randomly and the rule book were not a factor your idea would work well. I think the reason the Villains seem better written is because they are newer, fresher writing material for the writers to chew on. The MLP staff seem to be giving plots that should go to less developed side characters like the Student 6 and the Villains, to the Mane 6 causing OOC behavior.

In other words: they are shit writers who can't be bothered to learn who Mane 6 are. The animators are MVPs of FIM. Kinda sad.

StitchandMLPlover · August 20, 2019

23 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Feel free to judge. I don't mind. My ire is not directed at you. It is and always was directed at our glorious writers. Though, I will occasionally snap at a white knight, socialist, or "skeptic analyst". You won't see those posts since they are a bit too spicy to be left around by the mods.

One should not put a message before a hero's traveled path, and no ill-conceived rules of utopia should ever substitute that which makes us human. Perhaps our glorious writers have forgotten that children are humans too. The world is seen differently through their eyes yet it is still the same world that we are watching.

In other words: they are shit writers who can't be bothered to learn who Mane 6 are. The animators are MVPs of FIM. Kinda sad.

No worries, I can’t stand socialists! But I won’t get political here either.

I agree! Character should always determine plot. Not the other way around. Changing a character to fit a plot is just bad on all levels and it’s episodes like “Trivial” that make me glad season 9 is the last of MLP before the writers degrade the show and make fools of themselves. Unfortunately the animators being prioritized over the writing is not such a surprise to me since media is so global that the writing tends to change drastically in the dubbing process of MLP. Animators are priority because the animation aspect is what all countries will see. It’s a shame. Unfortunately a ton of modern media is sacrificing good writing for what it sees as quick $$$ and it drives me NUTS! I want good writing!

BornAgainBrony · August 20, 2019

7 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

We might as well. Some of you might benefit. I did say she was tilting, did I not? Twilight is prone to such behavior and Spike is fully aware of that. However, if Twilight was not enjoying an activity she herself wanted to join, then Spike would comment on that and try to talk her out of it.

Let's get back to tryhards. Once they get the mid-or-feed out of their system they can enjoy the game together way more than a tryhard and some noob spamming emotes. Harmony ain't gonna send you to heaven so don't be afraid to make things fun for yourself

Well, alright, if we're going to take it that deep into Twilight's behavior though, the very premise of the game doesn't sound like something she'd be into. Trivia in general, yes, but not where the strength of the teams is so blatantly determined by a luck of the draw. Twilight likes order, and the game deviates from it greatly, despite having an abnormally complex book of rules for an event that looks like it barely has any prestige outside of those who play it. It's still most certainly a bad thing if something that Twilight is doing for fun, is causing the same degree of freakouts as questions like... I dunno... "Are we going to be able to save the world from destruction?"

4 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

If the partners are NOT assigned randomly and the rule book were not a factor your idea would work well. I think the reason the Villains seem better written is because they are newer, fresher writing material for the writers to chew on. The MLP staff seem to be giving plots that should go to less developed side characters like the Student 6 and the Villains, to the Mane 6 causing OOC behavior.

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Such trivial things as a rule book do not matter if you are the god who holds the pen. Twilight would indeed not feel comfortable which would be fine. Pinkie urging her to do it would be the whole point of it, and since the point is the acknowledgment and acceptance of their differences, forcing themselves to try and play by each other's rules would go against the message.

Do note that this is a different message than teamwork, working together, being more than the sum of our parts and yada, yada, yada. Not sure ponies understand that one either. In fact, villains understand it better nowadays

That's part of the deus ex that gave the villains such a great episode. They feel the need to de-evolve the characters now just so they can relearn things again? That's what I'm getting from it, especially the past two episodes which seem more blatant about it than I've seen in a while. The villains are coming from so far behind that them learning ANYTHING is an improvement without having to force them out of character. So while "Frenemies" was a wonderful episode, the premise was also a total no-brainer.

The presence of the villains would've also have made this episode a no-brainer. The last one too in fact. All they'd need to do things like this and get it to make sense, is if one of the villains is pulling strings to manipulate the Mane 6 into turning on each other, which was even alluded to in Cozyglow's song. That the villains have been almost completely ignored, after a persistent antagonist "organization" was introduced in the first episode, is the saddest thing of all here. We've never seen a villain who wasn't sent packing within two episodes of being introduced, but they've still been left out of the story. Having them around, slowly drawing up their plans, presented SO much new territory that's never been done before. Not just for the villains, but for the heroes. The number of new and original stories they could've told by keeping the villains ever-present, is immense. Such a missed opportunity. Instead we get two episodes, back-to-back, of the keepers of the elements, suddenly not caring who gets hurt.

Ganondox · August 21, 2019

This was a fun episode. The rules of the game were pretty asinine from a game design standpoint (given a new team could be formed at any time, Twilight could have held out the first round with a mutually chosen partner and they could have joined together, avoiding the whole selection problem), but they did make for some pretty entertaining events, especially when combined with the character dynamics. The rule book fills like it was put together ad-hoc in response to specific complaints given while playing the game in the past, which may have been alluded to when Twilight requested to make a new rule specifically to bar Maud and Mudbriar. I really liked just getting a silly episode that worked with the character, and I appreciated how they didn't reveal a winner at the end because it really doesn't matter.

StitchandMLPlover · August 21, 2019

7 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Well, alright, if we're going to take it that deep into Twilight's behavior though, the very premise of the game doesn't sound like something she'd be into. Trivia in general, yes, but not where the strength of the teams is so blatantly determined by a luck of the draw. Twilight likes order, and the game deviates from it greatly, despite having an abnormally complex book of rules for an event that looks like it barely has any prestige outside of those who play it. It's still most certainly a bad thing if something that Twilight is doing for fun, is causing the same degree of freakouts as questions like... I dunno... "Are we going to be able to save the world from destruction?"

That's part of the deus ex that gave the villains such a great episode. They feel the need to de-evolve the characters now just so they can relearn things again? That's what I'm getting from it, especially the past two episodes which seem more blatant about it than I've seen in a while. The villains are coming from so far behind that them learning ANYTHING is an improvement without having to force them out of character. So while "Frenemies" was a wonderful episode, the premise was also a total no-brainer.

The presence of the villains would've also have made this episode a no-brainer. The last one too in fact. All they'd need to do things like this and get it to make sense, is if one of the villains is pulling strings to manipulate the Mane 6 into turning on each other, which was even alluded to in Cozyglow's song. That the villains have been almost completely ignored, after a persistent antagonist "organization" was introduced in the first episode, is the saddest thing of all here. We've never seen a villain who wasn't sent packing within two episodes of being introduced, but they've still been left out of the story. Having them around, slowly drawing up their plans, presented SO much new territory that's never been done before. Not just for the villains, but for the heroes. The number of new and original stories they could've told by keeping the villains ever-present, is immense. Such a missed opportunity. Instead we get two episodes, back-to-back, of the keepers of the elements, suddenly not caring who gets hurt.

I completely agree! If Twilight wanted to play the Trivia game with that intensity and skill level she should have sought out a trivia game where it was professional players only. NOT a game with random teams. Twilight's anxiety level was way too high.

Exactly! Rainbow Dash was definitely OOC last episode in “2,4,6 Great” too! The writers have tons of newer less developed characters like the Student 6, Starlight, and the Villains to work with that they almost never use to their advantage. I love the idea of the Villains causing the Mane 6 to act uncaring similar to the idea of “Mean 6”. That would have made “Trivial” a fantastic episode that doesn’t feel like wasteful filler. It would be so in-character, and on point, for the villains to divide and conquer the elements they so despise. They even had the map to introduce new characters like the Kirin and the Indian Ponies from “Spice Up Your Life” up until the Tree Of Harmony got destroyed and the map was so awfully underused. I would have had a field day with a concept like the cutie map if I were DHX. For that matter I would rather they use the last episodes of the series on exploring whether the map still works rather than making Mane 6 act like jerks. HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES!

Edited August 21, 2019 by StitchandMLPlover

Goat-kun · August 21, 2019

17 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Well, alright, if we're going to take it that deep into Twilight's behavior though, the very premise of the game doesn't sound like something she'd be into. Trivia in general, yes, but not where the strength of the teams is so blatantly determined by a luck of the draw. Twilight likes order, and the game deviates from it greatly, despite having an abnormally complex book of rules for an event that looks like it barely has any prestige outside of those who play it. It's still most certainly a bad thing if something that Twilight is doing for fun, is causing the same degree of freakouts as questions like... I dunno... "Are we going to be able to save the world from destruction?"

She's a Princess of Friendship now so dunno. They're trying to get the feeling of the old Twilight back but I guess that making Nerd Horse fun and experienced at the same time is way above their pay grade. Though this is the kind of prestige Twilight would go for. She was always the logical one but she was never Spock level. There was always a sort of hot-headedness to her that fights with her compulsive and organized nature. Sometimes the other side prevails.

And yes, putting lessons before everything and the cynical lol-so-random hipster non-humor have destroyed FIM's action adventure side. I see these characters "struggle" with villains the same way they struggle with their social kerfuffles and I feel nothing. Then Pinkie starts throwing cupcakes at the enemy and Rarity starts bitching about fashion. You may not be able to see it but I'm doing Picard wtf hand gesture at the screen.

But Goat-kun, for the kids ....

S was Batman.

18 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

That's part of the deus ex that gave the villains such a great episode. They feel the need to de-evolve the characters now just so they can relearn things again? That's what I'm getting from it, especially the past two episodes which seem more blatant about it than I've seen in a while. The villains are coming from so far behind that them learning ANYTHING is an improvement without having to force them out of character. So while "Frenemies" was a wonderful episode, the premise was also a total no-brainer.

The presence of the villains would've also have made this episode a no-brainer. The last one too in fact. All they'd need to do things like this and get it to make sense, is if one of the villains is pulling strings to manipulate the Mane 6 into turning on each other, which was even alluded to in Cozyglow's song. That the villains have been almost completely ignored, after a persistent antagonist "organization" was introduced in the first episode, is the saddest thing of all here. We've never seen a villain who wasn't sent packing within two episodes of being introduced, but they've still been left out of the story. Having them around, slowly drawing up their plans, presented SO much new territory that's never been done before. Not just for the villains, but for the heroes. The number of new and original stories they could've told by keeping the villains ever-present, is immense. Such a missed opportunity. Instead we get two episodes, back-to-back, of the keepers of the elements, suddenly not caring who gets hurt.

Have Mane 6 ever actually worked together to beat a villain? First episode was the only time they came close. And whoever is thinking about the friendship beam should go sit in the corner of shame.

Villains should have been just below Mane 6 as far as episode priority is concerned. S08 should have happened instead of S05 with more Cozy & Tirek episodes. But for such a thing to happen in G5 we need to get rid of friendship lesson compulsion first. That could potentially also solve the OOC problem. Heroes can learn to be virtuous just fine within story arcs.

BornAgainBrony · August 21, 2019

19 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

I completely agree! If Twilight wanted to play the Trivia game with that intensity and skill level she should have sought out a trivia game where it was professional players only. NOT a game with random teams. Twilight's anxiety level was way too high.

Exactly! Rainbow Dash was definitely OOC last episode in “2,4,6 Great” too! The writers have tons of newer less developed characters like the Student 6, Starlight, and the Villains to work with that they almost never use to their advantage. I love the idea of the Villains causing the Mane 6 to act uncaring similar to the idea of “Mean 6”. That would have made “Trivial” a fantastic episode that doesn’t feel like wasteful filler. It would be so in-character, and on point, for the villains to divide and conquer the elements they so despise. They even had the map to introduce new characters like the Kirin and the Indian Ponies from “Spice Up Your Life” up until the Tree Of Harmony got destroyed and the map was so awfully underused. I would have had a field day with a concept like the cutie map if I were DHX. For that matter I would rather they use the last episodes of the series on exploring whether the map still works rather than making Mane 6 act like jerks. HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES!

It's a little weird just how much the Mane 6 have been dragged backwards mentioning the map, yeah it's interesting, so much of this seems to have been the result of them being funneled into a kill zone by plot. It was established pretty early on these the Mane 6 had something special, a better-than-average understanding of whatever Harmony was trying to accomplish. In addition to the typical "guild of super heroes" daring deeds, they had the cutie map sending them on away missions to right wrongs in the spirit of Doctor Who, Quantum Leap, Star Trek, etc. They released the friendship journal as a guidebook for the entire nation and it would at least appear to have gained as much popularity as the Bible in human western culture. They had a castle ordained by Harmony, and then the school of friendship. While all of this was going on, the Mane 6 were in the position of teachers, much like the Care Bears descending on troubled people to help them get through it and come out stronger. All of that has been absent this season. The Student 6 were figuring everything out on their own. And the Mane 6 seem to have gone back to re-learning their lessons through experience. They're not moral leaders any more, and at the present time, it seems like no characters are. If anything, it's the Young 6 who have been going off on them, being like, "What the heck do you think you're doing?" It's all a fine idea. We generally expect a good student to essentially surpass the teacher, but not by downgrading the teacher first.

9 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

She's a Princess of Friendship now so dunno. They're trying to get the feeling of the old Twilight back but I guess that making Nerd Horse fun and experienced at the same time is way above their pay grade. Though this is the kind of prestige Twilight would go for. She was always the logical one but she was never Spock level. There was always a sort of hot-headedness to her that fights with her compulsive and organized nature. Sometimes the other side prevails.

And yes, putting lessons before everything and the cynical lol-so-random hipster non-humor have destroyed FIM's action adventure side. I see these characters "struggle" with villains the same way they struggle with their social kerfuffles and I feel nothing. Then Pinkie starts throwing cupcakes at the enemy and Rarity starts bitching about fashion. You may not be able to see it but I'm doing Picard wtf hand gesture at the screen.

But Goat-kun, for the kids ....

S was Batman.

Have Mane 6 ever actually worked together to beat a villain? First episode was the only time they came close. And whoever is thinking about the friendship beam should go sit in the corner of shame.

Villains should have been just below Mane 6 as far as episode priority is concerned. S08 should have happened instead of S05 with more Cozy & Tirek episodes. But for such a thing to happen in G5 we need to get rid of friendship lesson compulsion first. That could potentially also solve the OOC problem. Heroes can learn to be virtuous just fine within story arcs.

There also seems to be a higher priority being placed on slapstick recently. I feel like manes are frizzing far more frequently than they used to, and as everyone has been pointing out, bizarre troll meme faces are becoming quite common; crazy cartoon physics were something that used to strictly be Pinkie's domain except in very rare cases, but lately it's been spreading out. Twilight's paper bag might as well be a fashion accessory now, and that might be another reason her freakouts bother me more. She NEVER freaked out this much before. Not even in S1. Yeah, she was on the verge of it a lot, but also had enough coping skills to keep it in check. Research projects, making lists for the lists, reorganizing the books, etc always seemed almost like meditation, a thing she did when her anxiety started getting the better of her. It meant something then. It was a good 'flaw' that complemented her character. These days it's just used as a throwaway gag.

You nailed it about the sacrifice of the adventure side of the show. I was actually just reading through the show bible last night and thinking on that. It talked a lot about maintaining a balance between adventure stories and relationship ones; this was by design from the very beginning as something that would set the show apart from other girl-centered cartoons. The adventure has all but vanished this season and one of the few adventure episodes was given to the villains. There's the two Premiere episodes, and Sparkle's Seven (which probably only happened because it happened to be E200). The only others that even come close are Twilight's quest to return an overdue book (which ended up being a panic over nothing, because of course it was), and the visit to the Dragonlands. Yeah... I don't know if this is a censorship/ratings thing or if it runs deeper than that. Of what we've been given as far as battles go, S9 Sombra ranks pretty high among them. He was intense, scary, and had a lot of firepower. His defeat was pretty disappointing though. There are other times it could be argued the same because it always ends with the rainbow deus ex, but other times it at least felt earned, someone had to do something as a catalyst to get the elements working. This time around it just 'sort of happened' with a speech to explain it.

I'd love to see them all having to work without magic to defeat a villain. It'd be a fresh take on the adventure, and you still get to send an obvious message about teamwork. Heh, as much as I love the Elements, I'd rather it be used as a solution less frequently. It's like a stubborn piece of the magical girl formula that just won't let go.

It could have worked just as well to keep both parties in the same episode. The hunt for Grogar's bell could easily have been stretched across the season with a "race across the world" story that would be every bit as fun as Indiana Jones vs. Nazis. This would easily provide all the adventure and classic friendship problem episodes to fill an entire season.

StitchandMLPlover · August 21, 2019

2 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

It's a little weird just how much the Mane 6 have been dragged backwards mentioning the map, yeah it's interesting, so much of this seems to have been the result of them being funneled into a kill zone by plot. It was established pretty early on these the Mane 6 had something special, a better-than-average understanding of whatever Harmony was trying to accomplish. In addition to the typical "guild of super heroes" daring deeds, they had the cutie map sending them on away missions to right wrongs in the spirit of Doctor Who, Quantum Leap, Star Trek, etc. They released the friendship journal as a guidebook for the entire nation and it would at least appear to have gained as much popularity as the Bible in human western culture. They had a castle ordained by Harmony, and then the school of friendship. While all of this was going on, the Mane 6 were in the position of teachers, much like the Care Bears descending on troubled people to help them get through it and come out stronger. All of that has been absent this season. The Student 6 were figuring everything out on their own. And the Mane 6 seem to have gone back to re-learning their lessons through experience. They're not moral leaders any more, and at the present time, it seems like no characters are. If anything, it's the Young 6 who have been going off on them, being like, "What the heck do you think you're doing?" It's all a fine idea. We generally expect a good student to essentially surpass the teacher, but not by downgrading the teacher first.

There also seems to be a higher priority being placed on slapstick recently. I feel like manes are frizzing far more frequently than they used to, and as everyone has been pointing out, bizarre troll meme faces are becoming quite common; crazy cartoon physics were something that used to strictly be Pinkie's domain except in very rare cases, but lately it's been spreading out. Twilight's paper bag might as well be a fashion accessory now, and that might be another reason her freakouts bother me more. She NEVER freaked out this much before. Not even in S1. Yeah, she was on the verge of it a lot, but also had enough coping skills to keep it in check. Research projects, making lists for the lists, reorganizing the books, etc always seemed almost like meditation, a thing she did when her anxiety started getting the better of her. It meant something then. It was a good 'flaw' that complemented her character. These days it's just used as a throwaway gag.

You nailed it about the sacrifice of the adventure side of the show. I was actually just reading through the show bible last night and thinking on that. It talked a lot about maintaining a balance between adventure stories and relationship ones; this was by design from the very beginning as something that would set the show apart from other girl-centered cartoons. The adventure has all but vanished this season and one of the few adventure episodes was given to the villains. There's the two Premiere episodes, and Sparkle's Seven (which probably only happened because it happened to be E200). The only others that even come close are Twilight's quest to return an overdue book (which ended up being a panic over nothing, because of course it was), and the visit to the Dragonlands. Yeah... I don't know if this is a censorship/ratings thing or if it runs deeper than that. Of what we've been given as far as battles go, S9 Sombra ranks pretty high among them. He was intense, scary, and had a lot of firepower. His defeat was pretty disappointing though. There are other times it could be argued the same because it always ends with the rainbow deus ex, but other times it at least felt earned, someone had to do something as a catalyst to get the elements working. This time around it just 'sort of happened' with a speech to explain it.

I'd love to see them all having to work without magic to defeat a villain. It'd be a fresh take on the adventure, and you still get to send an obvious message about teamwork. Heh, as much as I love the Elements, I'd rather it be used as a solution less frequently. It's like a stubborn piece of the magical girl formula that just won't let go.

It could have worked just as well to keep both parties in the same episode. The hunt for Grogar's bell could easily have been stretched across the season with a race across the world story that would be every bit as fun as Indiana Jones vs. Nazis. This would easily provide all the adventure and classic friendship problem episodes to fill an entire season.

Again I completely agree! The Mane 6 were having great growth as mentors. My mentors are flawed and still learn from experience but with a better level of life experience and build on top of what they know. The Mane 6 could and should learn new lessons because in real life learning never ends, but NOT stuff they already know as with “Trivial”. Heck even the CMC tutor at the school! The writers seem to want to put the Student 6 in the right over the Mane 6 to fit their own narrative on diversity so it feels artificial. The Twilight freak out joke is getting old fast. About the humor in “Trivial”, the only jokes I really liked were the Applejack and Rainbow Dash jokes, and the one joke where Pinkie Pie swallows the plate along with the food especially since its been mentioned in other episodes like "Cutie Map" that Pinkie has inadvertently swallowed non food items in the past. Pinkie's other gags in "Trivial" had me rolling my eyes. The gags during other fight scenes like throwing cupcakes is probably Hasbro’s doings since Hasbro banned DHX from doing episodes that directly address death etc. Starlight and Trixie had an episode where they didn’t use magic to save the day and even the Mane 6 got a little taste of that sort of plot in season 8 where they worked together to get rid of the bugs on the way to Tartarus and get magic out of other creatures so why not do it again? Thanks!

Cash In · August 22, 2019

Well, I enjoyed this episode a lot more than I thought I would. I liked the overall premise of the Trivia Trot, as it was a unique idea that definitely opened up a lot of possibilities. The character interactions were actually pretty solid, which added to the experience, despite the episode not necessarily being based upon them. I enjoyed the gags in the episode - particularly Cranky Doodle Donkey sleeping the middle of the game. There were a couple of issues. Twilight may have taken things a bit too far at points - especially when she purposely got Pinkie Pie kicked out. The ending also appeared out of absolutely nowhere after having very little build up, aside from Sunburst's realisation when he attempted to get Twilight removed. Aside from that, I enjoyed this.

Sonic5421 · August 22, 2019

Sorry I'm late posting my thoughts on the episode if I did not post them earlier when I was supposed to either on Saturday or Sunday, but the way Twilight gets obsessed with wanting to become a three-time Trivia Trot champion was pretty much her going overboard on what most considered just a game, but to her, it was a livelihood.

The way she, in a desperate bid to win, even used the rules to her advantage, was definitely going too far, especially breaking Pinkie's heart with getting her disqualified and having Sunburst take over. Glad Sunburst was able to give Twilight a dose of her own medicine and make her realize just how much of a jerk she had been to Pinkie and force her to admit she messed up big time and had disgraced herself as the Princess of Friendship in the process before making amends with Pinkie and rejoining the game, but at a blank slate, meaning that, while Twilight won't get her third consecutive win, she and Pinkie can still have fun.

Overall, I enjoyed this episode, so I'll give it an 8, maybe 8.5/10.

Music Chart Fan · August 22, 2019

Overall, I would describe this episode as exasperating. For one thing, it's exasperating to have Twilight going into crazy freakout mode yet again, complete with wacky distorted facial expressions, and to have this occur from the beginning of the episode. I just think that Twilight in crazy freakout mode is way too overplayed at this point; I just find it frustrating, and unbecoming of someone whom the show appears to be setting up as the soon-to-be leader of Equestria. However, another thing I find exasperating about the episode is how it focuses on Twilight as being essentially the only one in the wrong. Yes, it basically goes without saying that Twilight's rules-lawyering is obnoxious, that Twilight's purposefully tricking Pinkie into getting disqualified is underhanded, and that if Twilight is going to act this way, then she probably should learn not to do that. But I don't derive any pleasure or entertainment from seeing Twilight get her comeuppance in the last third of the episode; I just feel like Twilight shouldn't have been written to misbehave so badly in the first place. (And I sympathize with Twilight's frustration; if getting randomly paired with a bad partner for Trivia Trot is frustrating, try getting randomly and permanently paired with a bad partner or partners for a semester-long laboratory class, which happened to me multiple times.)

Moreover, I think that the lesson of this episode also implies that it was bad and/or wrong for Twilight to take Trivia Trot seriously, and to try to achieve three wins in a row. Instead, apparently, Twilight should have, and is made to, adopt Pinkie's attitude of "just having fun" and not taking the Trivia Trot game seriously. Meanwhile, there are evidently no lessons to be learned from anything Pinkie does, and no attempt is made to point out anything that Pinkie could have done better; she's essentially a pure victim, to whom Twilight is made to conform in the end. But I think Pinkie could have observed that many other players are taking this game more seriously than she is - particularly Twilight, who told Pinkie that winning this game is very important to her. And after Pinkie sees that this game is being played differently than she might have expected, then I think Pinkie could have either tried harder to do what Twilight asked her to do in order to win, or, if that turned out to be impossible, concluded that this game isn't for her, and voluntarily stopped playing. Finally, there's also a significant amount of weirdness concerning the rules of Trivia Trot and how the game was conducted, which contributes to the conflict and isn't really addressed in the episode.

-----

First, I'll try to talk about the rules of Trivia Trot and how the game was conducted, and how those probably contributed to the whole conflict of the episode. To start off, we see that there's a literal book's worth of rules to the game, and those rules are laid out in a formal and complex way. So I would think, with the rules being as involved as they are, that it would be prudent to have potential players, and particularly new players, give some acknowledgement that they've read, understand, and agree to abide by all of these rules. And yet many of the players, and sometimes even Granny Smith as host and referee, don't seem to know or particularly care about the rules, which serves to fuel Twilight's rules-lawyering later in the episode. Even Sunburst, who cites rules by chapter and verse later in the episode, seemed not to notice or care that his teammate Cranky was sleeping (and snoring) right next to him, which is a rules violation worthy of disqualification, and results in Sunburst's being sidelined from the game until Twilight teams up with him. Why are there all of these rules if many of the players don't seem to be familiar with them, or seem to particularly care about following them?

And, in what might be an even bigger problem with this complicated rulebook, Pinkie appears to just walk in off the street and put her name in as a player with no questions asked. Is she aware that there's a literal book's worth of rules to the game that she has to follow? On the one hand, I wonder why neither Granny Smith nor anyone else asked Pinkie to acknowledge that she's read, understands, and agrees to abide by the rules, before she entered as a player. But on the other hand, perhaps it's known that Trivia Trot has this rulebook, and it's incumbent on any new players to learn and abide by the rules. And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to have some idea of how Trivia Trot is played before they enter as players. Pinkie demonstrates in the episode that she doesn't even know that a team can have negative points, and doesn't even know that answers must be specific and exact. Those seem like pretty basic things to know before starting to play the game. So it seems to me like there's blame to go around to both Pinkie and the people who are running the Trivia Trot game for this issue of Pinkie's not knowing and abiding by the rules.

It also just seems like the way that the rules are set up and that the game is played is asking for trouble. Trivia Trot has: (1) a complicated book's worth of rules; (2) the ability for anyone off the street to join the game, without any apparent demonstration of understanding and agreeing to abide by the rules; (3) having randomly and permanently assigned partners for the whole night, regardless of seriousness or skill level, unless your partner is disqualified and you find another person to take that partner's place; and (4) at least several players who take the game quite seriously and are looking to achieve or maintain difficult records. I would be kind of surprised if something like the events of this episode hasn't happened before. Maybe Trivia Trot was enough of a niche thing that the regular (and serious) players didn't have novices throwing a wrench in the works who don't know the rules and aren't taking it seriously, at least until Pinkie showed up and changed all of that. And just from observing this episode, is there really much to be gained from having randomly assigned partners, anyway? Trivia Trot appears to consist only of questions in which all teams try to answer as soon as possible; that format doesn't seem conducive to consulting with partners to come up with answers, particularly when those partners could be strangers who don't know anything about each other's knowledge bases or strengths and weaknesses.

Finally, there are at least a couple of other rules that seem strangely not well-thought-out. Why is sleeping during the game cause for disqualification and removal, but getting outside help to answer a question only results in the loss of a point? And if this game is going with having randomly and permanently assigned partners, then it seems like a significant oversight to allow, say, two players teamed with partners they don't want to trick or goad their partners into disqualifying themselves, and then allowing those two players to team up with no penalty. Does that make for a fun, fair, and entertaining game if players with partners they don't want end up more concerned with finding ways to dump their partners - or quitting - than playing the game? So I think that these Trivia Trot rules, and the way in which the game was conducted, are a significant contributing factor to the conflict of the episode.

-----

Now I'll talk a little more about Pinkie's and Twilight's behavior in this episode. To start off, just after it's announced that Pinkie and Twilight will be partners (and after Pinkie does her "name the shipping names of Twilight x Pinkie" shtick), Twilight directly tells Pinkie that this is a special game for Twilight, that she's trying to get her third win in a row, which no one has done before, and that she's really hoping to do so. And Pinkie replies "You don't have anything to worry about. I'll do everything I can to be the bestest and most funnest teammate ever". Since it's established that winning this game is very important to Twilight, I might think that being the "best and most fun teammate ever" would mean letting Twilight - the veteran player who probably knows what needs to be done to win - to take the lead, and for Pinkie to try hard to do what Twilight wants her to do.

But then we get Pinkie not knowing the rules, and ringing in with overeager, long-winded and/or vague answers that result in a point loss. (I might also add that those things are a nuisance to everyone, not just Pinkie's teammate.) We also see that Pinkie can't even concentrate on the topic of apples for more than 2 seconds, and is distracted from ringing in by a normal body function. So what are we supposed to take away from that? Is Pinkie just not even trying to concentrate? Is she actually incapable of concentrating on a topic for more than 2 seconds? And in either case, why shouldn't we consider that Pinkie might just not be equipped or suited to play this game? In fact, I can't help noticing that four of the Mane Six are here playing Trivia Trot, and appear to be regular players, and yet this episode is Pinkie's first time playing. Had these four invited Pinkie to play before, but Pinkie was just always busy or declined for other reasons, and all of a sudden, in this episode, she decided to take them up on the offer? Or did the four of them choose not to invite Pinkie to Trivia Trot for a good reason - namely, that they think Trivia Trot (as it's being played) is ill-suited to what Pinkie normally likes to do?

And so, after trying to deal with Pinkie's behavior, I'm not surprised that Twilight resorted to tricking Pinkie into disqualifying herself. What should Twilight have done, if tricking Pinkie into being disqualified was underhanded? I don't know. I find it hard to believe that talking to Pinkie or continuing to try to coach her would have worked. By that point, I think that Pinkie had demonstrated that she couldn't be relied on to concentrate, ring in at the right time, and actually give correct answers, even if she might know them. And she also probably couldn't be relied on to contain herself, not be distracting, and generally refrain from ringing in, either. Maybe, if Cranky is sleeping during the game, and Pinkie doesn't have the requisite mindset (or knowledge of the rules) to play the game without being a nuisance, both of them could be asked not to play any more, and then perhaps Twilight and Sunburst could be made into a team, or something.

But the solution that this episode seems to come up with is that Twilight should just give up on her hope and dream of achieving 3 wins in a row, stop taking the game seriously, and conform herself to the way that Pinkie wants to play the game. And that's reinforced by Spike's telling Twilight that this is "just a game", and even by the pun in the title of the episode, which implies that the record which Twilight is pursuing is trivial. But I don't think that it's inherently bad or wrong to take a game (or other activity) seriously. In many cases, the fun and enjoyment of a game (or other activity) can come from taking it seriously, playing hard to try to win, and even striving to achieve and maintain records. So I don't like the implied message of this episode's resolution. Perhaps a point could be made that it's a fool's errand for Twilight (or anyone else) to strive to achieve or maintain records in a game where her teammate is randomly assigned, and could be a total novice who doesn't take the game as seriously as she does. But I would argue that there are potential solutions other than deciding that nobody should take Trivia Trot seriously. I could imagine, for example, having separate competitive and casual games of Trivia Trot, with the competitive games perhaps having stricter rules or standards about who can play or how teams are chosen, while people like Pinkie could just choose to play casual games.

-----

Now here are the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

I didn't realize at first that Trivia Trot is being held in the Hay Burger as seen in "Twilight Time". Does the restaurant get any particular benefit from hosting Trivia Trot, or are they doing it just to be nice?

In the ongoing saga of trying to figure out when and why characters draw their cutie marks to represent themselves, as opposed to just writing their names, we see that Twilight and Pinkie drew their cutie marks to put in the bowl, but at least some other players did opt to write their names. However, we don't know who chose to write their names, or why.

When Rainbow tells Sunburst "I hope you realize not every category is gonna be 'Spells So Old, Not Even Star Swirl the Bearded Remembers Them', it took me a little bit to realize that that's not just a figure of speech; Star Swirl the Bearded is living right now in-universe and could actually be consulted about which spells he does or doesn't remember.

When Spike begins to roll up Twilight's scroll outside, he's rolling it with the writing facing inward, but when Spike opens the door and brings the scroll in, the writing is facing outward.

After Spike comes back in from outside with the rolled-up scroll, Twilight looks at it and we see a chart with 11 potential players down the side of it, including Mudbriar, Sunburst, and Pinkie. But how did they, and particularly Pinkie, get on the scroll? Twilight's bar graphs of potential teammates shown previously only had 7 people - Fluttershy, Applejack, Dr. Whooves, Rainbow, Bulk Biceps, Matilda, and Maud - and Twilight explicitly says that she hadn't anticipated Pinkie as a potential player. And we never see Twilight or Spike write on the scroll at any time between Pinkie's entering herself as a player and our seeing the scroll with 11 potential players on it. There is a jump cut between Spike's being teleported outside and when he walks back in, so perhaps he could have written on the scroll then, but Twilight only asked him to "find the part on matchups", not to write up new matchups including Pinkie (and the others).

Would an air horn of the size that Pinkie uses really be capable of making that loud or low-pitched of a blast?

Why did Applejack and Sunburst say that the scorekeeping job is intense, and try to dissuade Spike from doing it? As far as we see, he's not tasked with looking for rules violations or making judgement calls; essentially all he does is flip the digits representing each team's score.

Cranky actually goes from looking to be perfectly fine and awake to being fast asleep in about 3 seconds.

There are times throughout the episode when two characters just talk to each other for 10 seconds or more, even in the middle of the game, and all the while, seemingly nobody else is doing or saying anything. Does everyone else just wait silently and patiently for the two characters in focus of the camera to finish talking?

Some of the Trivia Trot questions seem quite vague, and I wonder if there would be more than one potential correct answer. For example, is there really only one place in the world that "used to be a cavern, but after thousands of years of erosion, is now a gorge"? Are Lord Tirek and Scorpan really the only ones in all of Equestrian history who "traveled to Equestria from a distant land seeking to steal the magic from its pony inhabitants"?

Throughout the episode, we only ever see teams earning 1 point for a correct answer, and sometimes losing a point for wrong answers or rules violations. Yet by the end of the episode, the 5 remaining teams have scores in the 40s and 50s. That seems to imply that at least 250 questions or so have been asked, and the game is still going on, with Twilight not even totally ruling out the possibility that she and Pinkie could still win starting from zero. So how long do these Trivia Trot games go? How many questions are asked by the end of a typical game? And since an intermission occurred earlier when the teams had 3-11 points each, how many more intermissions occur in a typical game?

qwerE · August 24, 2019

This episode was excellent compared to the one that came before. The lesson didn't feel forced, the jokes were funny, and the process in which Twilight learned her lesson made sense. What I didn't like about the previous episode was that RD seemingly randomly changed her mind and learned her lesson. In this episode, TS realizes how mean she had been to Pinkie by being treated by Sunburst the same way and getting apologized afterwards. This makes her change in heart much less forced, and even gets the lesson across in a more convincing manner.

The theme and storyline felt original, too. I loved the theme of a quiz show, as it brought in a whole new fun of trying to get the answers into the episode. The questions were mostly easy, but there were some that I couldn't remember and added to the challenge.

Finally, the slapstick style jokes were simple but worked well. The whole of the episode was filled with exciting and interesting moments. I can see why some people dislike the freaky Twi part of the episode, because I usually do too. However, Twi actually turns to relying on a unfair strategy of using the rulebook in this episode, and that part was hilarious. It was like seeing what an 'evil' version on Twi would be like. The scene where she tells Fluttershy "rule x.x - no help from pets!" was my favourite.

Edited August 24, 2019 by qwerE

Sh Pie · August 24, 2019

This was a humorous and novel Twilight and Pinkie focus episode. Pinkie was great. I really liked her comedic and optimistic portrayal in contrast to Twilight Twilighting over what should have been an innocuous game of general knowledge. Pinkie just wanted to try her best and have a good time regardless of the outcome and Twilight's obsession with perfection, streaks and winning ruined that for her. Everybody likes to win, but victory is hollow without the Element of Laughter.

There was a question about apples and a question about Daring Do's hat and somehow, AJ the apple and hat enthusiast was unable to answer either of them. It's not surprising that Granny Smith's look of disappointment prompted her to hide in her hat in shame.

Out of the Mane 6, Rarity is the only pony absent. Maybe they should have had a category about fashion.

The interactive potential was cool with some of the questions being about stuff bronies may know and that allows us to participate in the game as well. I was impressed that some of the questions were kind of obscure like the inclusion of Scorpan in addition to the more notorious Tirek as a 2 part answer. I like how it rotated between a range of diverse categories instead of grounding itself in a single absurdly specialized category that expects ponies to know completely arbitrary and pointless details about random stuff. This was actually interesting and educational, especially for ponies who are a little rusty with the lore.

After Sunburst immediately apologized for his failed attempt to get Twilight disqualified, Twilight realized she had been a hypocrite and a bad friend to Pinkie due to putting her own personal success above the happiness of her friend. Fortunately, they were able to work it out and rejoin the game from zero, a handicap that probably cost them the game. Twilight stopped Twilighting about her streak and let Pinkie play as she saw fit. We don't know who won but it's unlikely TwiPie made a comeback which is okay since the moral was about having a good time. Winning is just a bonus and it's important to remember why we play games at all, for the experience and the gratification that comes from giving it everything you got without trying to manipulate or cheat the system to artificially mitigate the difficulty.

StitchandMLPlover · August 24, 2019

On 8/19/2019 at 5:45 PM, BornAgainBrony said:

Things weren't actually any better with Sunburst though. Then it was just him keeping her out of the game, trying to do it all on his own. Nothing was ever going 'well' for Twilight that whole time.

How about forgetting Pinkie for a moment, bickering over whether or not she was pushing her fun over Twi's, or trying to control Twilight's definition of fun, and instead trusting Spike's judgement? For all intents and purposes, he's the Princess's closest advisor. Spike knows Twilight's breakdowns better than anyone, the episode opens with him knowing that one is coming, and he's trying to prevent it before it starts. That's not a question of his fun vs. hers. If Twilight was truly enjoying it, Spike wouldn't be intervening. How often do you suppose professional competitors have to breathe into paper bags just to keep from passing out due to hyperventilation? That's beyond tryharding. If we're going to still argue that Twilight was enjoying it, then we might as well start debating BDSM.

On 8/20/2019 at 10:16 AM, Goat-kun said:

We might as well. Some of you might benefit. I did say she was tilting, did I not? Twilight is prone to such behavior and Spike is fully aware of that. However, if Twilight was not enjoying an activity she herself wanted to join, then Spike would comment on that and try to talk her out of it.

Let's get back to tryhards. Once they get the mid-or-feed out of their system they can enjoy the game together way more than a tryhard and some noob spamming emotes. Harmony ain't gonna send you to heaven so don't be afraid to make things fun for yourself

I re watched the episode on TV today before the new episode to see if I missed anything in my previous analysis. From the very first scene Spike can tell Twilight is already at an usual level of “Twilighting” and her behavior is WAY different from the other 2 times she played “Trivia Trot” and multiple times he tries to bring her back down to earth and talk her out of it, by reminding her she is Princess of Friendship and to focus more on how she herself is playing. Sunburst even tells Twilight she’s “out of the zone” compared to previous games. On a rewatch I did notice Twilight said “This game is special, I’m hoping to win” to Pinkie Pie so she did try to get across to Pinkie that it was important to her but I think Twilight should have said “I need to win” more directly to Pinkie since it seems like Twilight just smiled and told Pinkie not to worry every time she(Pinkie) started to notice Twi having trouble, and we know Pinkie does not read subtle body language well. Twilight also rarely let Pinkie Pie even answer so Twilight kinda sabotaged herself in the end either way. Just my 2 cents again.

BornAgainBrony · August 24, 2019

1 hour ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

“This game is special, I’m hoping to win” to Pinkie Pie so she did try to get across to Pinkie that it was important to her but I think Twilight should have said “I need to win”

Hmm... that line actually says a lot. It's possible that she WAS playing just for fun this whole time and she only got all unhinged when she realized she had a chance to break a record. Maybe Pinkie wasn't so much in the wrong here after all.

Sign In

spoiler S09:E16 - A Trivial Pursuit

How was the episode? 78 users have voted

1. How was the episode?

Recommended Posts

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Jeric

TheAnimationFanatic

Dark Qiviut

Posted Images

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Goat-kun 2,527

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Ashen Pathfinder 16,161

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Goat-kun 2,527

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Justin_Case001 4,881

Link to comment

Share on other sites

KH7672 1,604

Link to comment

Share on other sites

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Goat-kun 2,527

Link to comment

Share on other sites

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Goat-kun 2,527

Link to comment

Share on other sites

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

BornAgainBrony 2,397

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Ganondox 899

Link to comment

Share on other sites

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Goat-kun 2,527

Link to comment

Share on other sites

BornAgainBrony 2,397

Link to comment

Share on other sites

StitchandMLPlover 930

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Cash In 22,216

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Sonic5421 423

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Music Chart Fan 819

Link to comment

Share on other sites

qwerE 96

Link to comment

Share on other sites

How was the episode?
78 users have voted