Twilight Sparkle Alicorn/Princess Speculation [SPOILERS]

[Cupcake Ice Cream 436]

absolute crap IMO and I will tell you why...and yes it is personal

 

I understand that Twilight Sparkle is the lynch pin of the group...that's fine...she found all the members and is the element of magic

 

My problem is (and again this is personal opinion...deal) that I don't think that gives her the right to rise above the rest. I don't think TS is any more special than any other of the mane 6. I realize this sounds whiny...and that is fine...I hate this idea

 

I hope it isn't permanent...please don't let it be

Edited February 16, 2013 by Cupcake Ice Cream

[himanuts 165]

I still find the Twilicorn thing pointless. She doesn't need a physical change to gain a title and portray what it represents.

 

But regardless. The episode was still fantastic. The songs where great and it was really emotional.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

I am completely shocked. This episode turned out to be quite good. I liked the fact that it was a musical all the way through. I actually am relieved they did this princess alicorn thing the right way. Here's hoping season 4 takes a great direction.

 

I will make a youtube video later today and explain the episode in great detail 

Edited February 16, 2013 by TheMarkz0ne

[Driz 1,552]

All I want right now is to watch Season 4 as soon as possible and see how this whole Twilicorn thing goes.

 

It feels just so weird... I mean, she just reached the peak: She perfected magic, she knows friendship, and now she is an Alicorn princess. What next?

 

I still haven't fully accepted that fact to come to any conclusions of whether I like it or not. I still need to get used to it, because it literally feels non-canon to me right now. It was a great episode and all, but boy, was that a huge bomb! :s

Edited February 16, 2013 by DrizzleSTAR

[Klick-Klack 299]

Well, it has been done... Unless the speculations are wrong, and being a representitive princess does not grant her eternal life, Twilight will live on, to see the death of all her friends, the days turning grey without time, as time loses meaning when you lose an end. Imagine living forever... a purer torture would be difficult to come across... and its kinda degrading for the others, dont you think? they all helped  equally in their own right, yet only twilight is awarded the so called honour of being a princess.... completely undeserved, IMO

[Anadu Kune 668]

absolute crap IMO and I will tell you why...and yes it is personal

 

I understand that Twilight Sparkle is the lynch pin of the group...that's fine...she found all the members and is the element of magic

 

My problem is (and again this is personal opinion...deal) that I don't think that gives her the right to rise above the rest. I don't think TS is any more special than any other of the mane 6. I realize this sounds whiny...and that is fine...I hate this idea

 

I hope it isn't permanent...please don't let it be

Ok I dont agree at all. However this right here is how an opinion should be presented. As an opinion. Even going as far to be self aware as how it could look to others. Never boldly stating it as a factual structural error.

[Metemponychosis 1,260]

This episode was better than I expected but not as good as I had hoped. Really, my biggest problem with it, aside from the obvious "rushed feeling" it had is the constant use of "destiny". They are trying to show that Twilight deserved becoming a princess but whenever they say it's destiny, it kills it for me.

 

When I think that they were going for a "looser" definition of destiny, then I love the episode.

[Cupcake Ice Cream 436]

Ok I dont agree at all. However this right here is how an opinion should be presented. As an opinion. Even going as far to be self aware as how it could look to others. Never boldly stating it as a factual structural error.

and I thank you for that..i mean no offense but a good portion of the internet loves to tout abstract opinions as fact...((hint hint...political arguments))

 

And that's cool that you don't agree...would be quite boring if all we did was agree

 

Well, it has been done... Unless the speculations are wrong, and being a representitive princess does not grant her eternal life, Twilight will live on, to see the death of all her friends, the days turning grey without time, as time loses meaning when you lose an end. Imagine living forever... a purer torture would be difficult to come across... and its kinda degrading for the others, dont you think? they all helped  equally in their own right, yet only twilight is awarded the so called honour of being a princess.... completely undeserved, IMO

I agree completely...I feel each of the mane 6 are exactly equal...yet somehow TS gets to be a princess now? what a crock...I won't lie...if they don't fix this I don't know how I will feel about the remainder of season 4

[Snowbeam 20]

HUYA! whassup? i've heard of this thing where twilight may become an alicorn (you probity know this) and i just dont like it 3: it separates her from all the other ponys like come on, all her friends element things are necklaces and she has a huge crown and 'the most important element of all'. I just think it doesnt work. I would like to know what you think about this. 

[Stalliongrad 982]

I think you should watch the Season 3 Finale. It has happened. I personally do not agree with it. But all we can do now is see how it plays out.

[Thunderstorm 120]

I don't think they executed it right (lolwut)... I mean, it happened TOO fast. To be honest, fifteen minutes after watching the episode, I'm still very confused... but to be honest, I don't mind as much anymore.

[Snowbeam 20]

NO JUST NO... PLEASE NOOOOO twilight already annoys me by being the 'main character' i mean come on, all her friends have necklaces and she gets this huge crown thing!

[ClosetBrony 14]

Introduction

 

So season 3 has passed and with it came a lot of joy, laughs, tears and now a rage storm over the twilicorn issue. I may be new here but I feel there needs to be a calm analysis and discussion and try to get some understanding between the two sides of this argument.

 

First off I would like to say that overall I liked the season 3 finale. I give it a B rating. Good episode with some awesome moments but also some flaws (mostly pacing issues).

 

The real thing I want to discuss are the implications of Twilight now being an alicorn. Through out this topic I will be discussing the pros the cons and where we go from here. So lets get started.

 

What does it mean to be an Alicorn?

 

Lets first start off discussing about what being an Alicorn implies. From the beginning of the show we have been led to believe that Alicorns are beings far above any other pony. They wield incredible magic and ruler over a specific dominion of the physical world. Celestia and Luna together control the day and night cycle and together rule Equestria. Then along came Cadence who showed there were more than just 2 Alicorns (so Hasbro could sell pink canonical Alicorn =p). While Cadence is not on the same level as Celestia or Luna, she still hold great magic, being capable of casting a protective shield over and entire city (Crystal Empire) and her signature magical talent of bringing out the love within ponies.

 

So as we can see, there can be multiple Alicorns but they all share some things in common. They're all princesses who rule an aspect of the world and they hold great power and great responsibility. While not omniscient they do posses far greater wisdom and or knowledge than other ponies and are held in high regard because of this. So what does this mean for Twilight?

 

Twilight's status as an Alicorn

 

Twilight becoming an Alicorn and a princess is a symbol of the growth and maturity she has gained through her adventures. Over the course of the show Twilight has gained greater knowledge and in turn displayed greater magic and wisdom as evidenced in episode 12 season 3 where she didn't freak out and panic the same way she use to.

 

Twilight's transformation is similar to the Hero's Journey story structure where the protagonist after much trial and tribulation achieves the final growth in their character that cements the conclusion of their character arc. Think Luke Skywalker when he becomes a full fledged Jedi Master and after defeating the Empire dedicates the rest of his life rebuilding the Jedi Order and training the next generation (ignoring all the obscure expanded universe which is not in the minds of the mainstream audience for good reason).

 

If not for the messages from the writers that there will be a season 4, many fans would have thought that this would be the end of MLP FIM. There's a reason for that, because Twilight is no longer the same pony she was when started and she has now learned all there is to about friendship, symbolised by her Alicorn transformation made possible by the bonds she created with her friends. It is the logical conclusion to her character.

 

Which begs the question, where do we go from here. This is where a lot of the hate, fear and arguments come and I will be discussing this issue soon but for now I need a break.

 

I hope you enjoyed by amateur analysis and hope for a continued rational discussion.

Edited February 17, 2013 by ClosetBrony

[Thunderstorm 120]

NO JUST NO... PLEASE NOOOOO twilight already annoys me by being the 'main character' i mean come on, all her friends have necklaces and she gets this huge crown thing!

 

...She had it before she was an alicorn princess, so I don't see what you mean. She always had it since episode one basically, while her friends got necklaces...

To be honest I prefer the necklaces.

[Vengeance 84]

This is a really greatly detailed topic, but I think you could have added it to the Alicorn Speculation thread, or even the Magical Mystery Cure episode discussion thread.

[Genepool 224]

I still find the Twilicorn thing pointless. She doesn't need a physical change to gain a title and portray what it represents.

 

But regardless. The episode was still fantastic. The songs where great and it was really emotional.

 

Agreed Himanuts, and it would have been an awesome lesson to show that "princess" is just some title bestowed onto any individual like Shining armor or Blue Blood having the title of prince.  Sadly, this is 100% Hasbro work because all princesses that have been show thus are are alicorns.  Even the story book from Hearts and Hooves day was changed from where she was a unicorn to a 2nd image where she displays wings.  Only time that we've seen a non-alicorn princess was the holiday episode for Xmas where Rarity played Princess Platinum, but that's just one vs 5 confirmed Princess alicorns. 

 

I do agree that the episode was quite up to snuff, reminding me of Mary Poppins where songs help to convey an eloquent story.  Also, like a song in that movie, a spoonful of good songs helped the bitter pill of Twilicorn go down the hatch.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Genepool

[ClosetBrony 14]

This is a really greatly detailed topic, but I think you could have added it to the Alicorn Speculation thread, or even the Magical Mystery Cure episode discussion thread.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I Wanted to start a new thread to avoid all of the baggage and getting lost in sea of posts but I'll move this post and future posts over to those threads and see how it goes.

[NavelColt 22,879]

Introduction

 

So season 3 has passed and with it came a lot of joy, laughs, tears and now a rage storm over the twilicorn issue. I may be new here but I feel there needs to be a calm analysis and discussion and try to get some understanding between the two sides of this argument.

 

First off I would like to say that overall I liked the season 3 finale. I give it a B rating. Good episode with some awesome moments but also some flaws (mostly pacing issues).

 

The real thing I want to discuss are the implications of Twilight now being an alicorn. Through out this topic I will be discussing the pros the cons and where we go from here. So lets get started.

 

What does it mean to be an Alicorn?

 

Lets first start off discussing about what being an Alicorn implies. From the beginning of the show we have been led to believe that Alicorns are beings far above any other pony. They wield incredible magic and ruler over a specific dominion of the physical world. Celestia and Luna together control the day and night cycle and together rule Equestria. Then along came Cadence who showed there were more than just 2 Alicorns (so Hasbro could sell pink canonical Alicorn =p). While Cadence is not on the same level as Celestia or Luna, she still hold great magic, being capable of casting a protective shield over and entire city (Crystal Empire) and her signature magical talent of bringing out the love within ponies.

 

So as we can see, there can be multiple Alicorns but they all share some things in common. They're all princesses who rule an aspect of the world and they hold great power and great responsibility. While not omniscient they do posses far greater wisdom and or knowledge than other ponies and are held in high regard because of this. So what does this mean for Twilight?

 

Twilight's status as an Alicorn

 

Twilight becoming an Alicorn and a princess is a symbol of the growth and maturity she has gained through her adventures. Over the course of the show Twilight has gained greater knowledge and in turn displayed greater magic and wisdom as evidenced in episode 12 season 3 where she didn't freak out and panic the same way she use to.

 

Twilight's transformation is similar to the Hero's Journey story structure where the protagonist after much trial and tribulation achieves the final growth in their character that cements the conclusion of their character arc. Think Luke Skywalker when becomes a full fledged Jedi Master and after defeating the Empire dedicates the rest of his life rebuilding the Jedi Order and training the next generation (ignoring all the obscure expanded universe which is not in the minds of the mainstream audience for good reason).

 

If not for the messages from the writers that there will be a season 4, many fans would have thought that this would be the end of MLP FIM. There's a reason for that, because Twilight is no longer the same pony she was when started and she has now learned all there is to about friendship, symbolised by her Alicorn transformation made possible by the bonds she created with her friends. It is the logical conclusion to her character.

 

Which begs the question, where do we go from here. This is where a lot of the hate, fear and arguments come and I will be discussing this issue soon but for now I need a break.

 

I hope you enjoyed by amateur analysis and hope for a continued rational discussion.

 

A fantastic post, truly, very nice job, very insightful. As it so happens though, since your topic is more or less discussion about Alicorn Twilight and all themes related to that about the finale, your topic actually best fits inside the topic I've merged it into; 'Twilight Sparkle Alicorn/Princess Speculation [spoilerS]'.

[ClosetBrony 14]

Alright time for the next part of my critque.

 

Part 2 Moving Forward

 

Now that Twilight is an Alicorn there is a huge shift in the dynamic of the show and this is where people start yelling "jumped the shark" but why is that?

 

Twilight becoming an Alicorn is the biggest game changer in the histroy of the show for better or worse and you would have to be in denial to not admit that. No other season finale, premiere or episode in general has greater fundamentally changed one of the main cast than this episode. 

 

As metioned before in my previous post, this is a more mature level headed and wise Twilight Sparkle with new responsibilities. If she was still the socially awkward, over analysing, prone to exaggerating the situation twilight we know and love then what was the point of her becoming and Alicorn, why didn't they just make her a princess in the beginning, is all it takes to be an Alicorn just invent a fancy new magic spell? It would be very strange for Twilight, now an Alicorn and a princess still living in ponyville in the library, studying magic and friendship by herself and getting into the same mundane problems and slice of life comedy she was before. It would be taking one step forward and 2 steps back.

 

How not to go forward, the risks and fears

 

Let me illustrate with two examples, a show I loved and a movie I enjoyed.

 

The first is DBZ, through out DBZ it was hinted that Gohan had a great hidden surpassing his farther's and all other and that one day he would become the hero he needed to be. Come Cell saga this build up come to fruition. Gohan lets go of all his doubts and fears and becomes the legendary super saiyan he was meant to be and defeats a villan who has all the powers of the z warriors and then some. Goku passes the torch onto his son and even though life becomes peaceful, if ever dark forces show up again, Gohan will take his father's mantle to save the day. This was meant to be the conclusion to Gohan's character arc, then Majin Buu saga happened. Now don't get me wrong, DBZ after cell saga had some great moments and there was a great opportunity to explore Gohan adjusting to life after Goku. But what happened, Gohan gets regulated to be the punching bag to show off just how powerful Majin Buu is and when he finally becomes Mystic Gohan and gets his chance to save the day and show everyone just why he is the one to inherit his father's legacy, he blows it and Goku has to come save the day with his spirit bomb.

So much for passing the torch and a new and better Gohan.

 

Lets move on to my next example, Kung Fu Panda. This movie is a story about how the everyman becomes the legendary warrior he was meant to be and become the savior of the valley. Po starts off as goofy, uncoordinated and clumsy with no talent in martial arts. However his master Shifu after much soul searching learns that Po is meant to be the dragon warrior and that he just had to change his methods. By working together, Po overcomes his overeating and confidence issues and by the end of the movie, defeats the villan who was Shifu's greatest mistake becomes the dragon warrior. While he still has elements of being goofy and overexcited, he is far more wise and mature than he once was. Then comes the TV series and all the growth and character development he gained has dissappeared. He's still a great fighter but it implies that things just comes to him naturally and even then he has difficulty defeating low level mooks and has just as tact and wisdom as he did at the start of the first movie. For the sake of continuing his story Dreamworks decided to undo almost everything Po learned in the first movie.

 

What does all this have to do with Twilight and MLP: FIM? The examples I gave above shows the danger of continuing the story of protaganists who already reached the conclusion of their character arcs. In order to use the same stories and plots that made us love the franchise in the first place, they have to undo all of the character development the characters gained previously. One of the ways MLP could now stuff up in season 4 is to regress Twilight's growth or treat becoming an Alicorn as no big deal and she will still end up getting into the same antics as she did previously, making the princess coronation completely pointless.

 

The only good way to move forward now is to take the show to the next step go off into new story arcs and ideas. But this means changing the format of the show and sailing into unchartered waters. Hasbro has stated before that they prefer a show format with limited continuity, not requiring viewers to go too deeply into previous episodes and focusing on self contained slice of life comedy. How can this be maintained with such a fundamental change in Twilight's character? Even if the new changes to the show turn out to be great, it still means that there is a difference in style between when the show started and post season 3 and this can get people worrying.

 

I for one am hopeful for new and better things for MLP: FIM but I cannot deny that this is an uncertain future.

 

Next time i will be discussing what I think are the appropriate steps forward and the potential good story arcs that could come from season 4, (though that may be off topic).

Edited February 17, 2013 by ClosetBrony

[Lunar Follower 86]

Let me guess that video was made by someone on /mlp/. The whole bronies are going to leave and the fandom is dieing thing is bs. If DC comics fans can survive the crap we've had to put up with the bronies will. How about star wars fans? Had to put up with three of the worst movies ever. Even if this were garanteed to be bad it would be a tenth of what those fandoms had to go through and they are still very much alive and very active. 

At least Twilight will never go nuts and kill all of the ponies and then be replaced with another character.

I hope the fandom doesnt just go up in flames and die. This fandom actually makes a nice amount of sense. Im not sure what i would do bc first they would mess something else up and then something else and who knows where theyd stop. They might even go as far as to change luna for the worst, then it would be game over man, game over. I still have very mixed feelings about this change (twilight shouldnt be a flier. It just doesnt work) but as long as theres no other changes that threaten the fabric of space and time (like this one, there was an entire singing scene for it this time) I personally will be fine.

 

I thnk thats enough characters.

[Anadu Kune 668]

I hope the fandom doesnt just go up in flames and die. This fandom actually makes a nice amount of sense. Im not sure what i would do bc first they would mess something else up and then something else and who knows where theyd stop. They might even go as far as to change luna for the worst, then it would be game over man, game over. I still have very mixed feelings about this change (twilight shouldnt be a flier. It just doesnt work) but as long as theres no other changes that threaten the fabric of space and time (like this one, there was an entire singing scene for it this time) I personally will be fine.

 

I thnk thats enough characters.

Even if the show were somehow just ruined the fandom wouldnt just up and die. The star wars fandom has endured the horrors known as the prequels which destroyed continuity in both old and new films. Seriously have you tried watching them back to back its super confusing and jarring. Those movies are generally regarded as.. well...not good....really really not good. Ok they are regarded as absolutely horrible with stale characters, composition and nonsensical story. Point is people still watched them even knowing that, people still love the franchise and characters despite that horrible misstep. Same with DC comics. The amount of baffling horrible decisions they make on a yearly basis is just mind boggling  I mean just look up All Star Batman or Amazons Attack or *cringe* Countdown to Final Crisis. Recently they just decide to negate some 70 years of continuity or most of it kinda. DC fans are still alive and kicking despite constantly being beaten into submission with horrible choices. Look at what Transformers fans had to go through with the bay movies. How about Highlander fans they consider 90% of what the fanbase is based on to be bad. So I think ponies will be fine. Heck we are in a much better state than them. What have we had to endure? A pony getting wings and a few episodes that may or may not have been up to par. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[NeverAgain653289he32 285]

      I have a speculation about season 4 and about Twilight. Since Luna and Celestia rule almost everything  maybe they give Ponyville to Twilight, and she rules near her friends and they still have adventures together. However I believe that the most probable thing to happen would be for something to happen to her and she would lose her princess hood. What do you guys think? 

[Veylon 255]

I'm going with the "loss of princesshood". I think that the desire to restore the status quo will win out despite all logic and reason to the contrary. I'd be flabbergasted if the whole Twilight Princess thing is actually taken seriously in Season 4.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,350]

The loss of princesshood thing would be quite stupid in my opinion. For one, they spent some time hyping this up. They have it happen in a rushed episode, then they decide 'Hey, let's just throw it away.'. I don't know what will happen, but honestly, that is the last thing I want now. I want to see Princess Twilight stay and the possibilities that can come with it.

[~Vallo~ 409]

I predict that she's going to be excited about being a princess at first, but soon realizes that it's a lot of work and requires great responsibility, which would lead her to either screw up and lose her princesshood, resign and return to her friends, or stay a princess while her friends move to Canterlot to be with her.