Could the writers pull of an Anti hero/Extremist Villain?

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

I mean a villain who isn't Really evil and actually has a valid point to why hes a villain and thinks he is right and perhaps even has a cult of followers as minions. Or Maybe someone who is an extremist and is willing to do what it takes to win. i think it would be interesting because all of the four villains were outright evil and for the minor villains there was Iron Will but he did not appear that much.

[RWB 229]

It might be a tough topic to tackle.

 

"Sometimes, you want to do what you think is the best for everyone, but if you aren't careful, you might force the very same ponies you want to help into terrible trouble."

 

That could be the lesseon.

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

That would be difficult. Since the show is still targeted at little girls in the first place, they can maybe understand emotional reasons, or the classical 'evil'. But awry idealism or such things are maybe a bit too above children's heads and would require a solid characterization, too. Some kind of build up. And that would take several episodes.

Implement that in this show? I don't think so, even though it is the best kind of villains, in my opinion.

[Blue Moon 6,342]

I think it's possible Trixie could do this. She is apparently reformed, but I'm pretty sure she would have her mean spirit and could work as an anti-hero.

 

Another candidate could be Discord. I could see him being an anti-hero.

 

 

Even though we don't know too much about her, I think Sunset Shimmer could be an extremist-villain.

[Veylon 255]

You could have some conspiracy of ultra-loyalist guards who want to take down Luna, fearing that she may become Nightmare Moon again. They'd see themselves as self-sacrificing heroes: they don't want power or glory or even honor, they want only to fulfill their duty of seeing their beloved Princess safe from a deadly enemy whom she's mistakenly taken into her home.

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

I don't know. I'm sure they could pull off something like someone is doing something bad for the right reasons (like stealing from the rich to give to the poor) Something like that would be interesting to see.

[ColdGoldLazarus 8]

This is what I'd been hoping for from Sunset Shimmer, but the leaked photos pretty much tore that theory apart. Ironically, while everyone else is saying that maybe EQG will be cool after all, my opinion hs gone from "cautious optimism" to "incredibly disgruntled."

Edited June 8, 2013 by ColdGoldLazarus

[~Squishy Skies~ 756]

The villains in MLP are all very... strange...

 

They don't last very long, and they don't exactly pose a life-threatening...threat to the ponies. I don't know. I'll think about this more.

 

As for an anti-hero-like thingy-guy, that'd most certainly be interesting. I don't think it'd be too hard to pull this off. Gilda was kinda-sort of an anti-hero in that she was against the ways of which are good, (Pinkie Pie) but I think it'd have to be a little more complex than that. She was more of a rival than an anti-hero.

 

I DON'T KNOW. MLP villains are very... strange...

[hawkflame 3,310]

"Morally gray" does not fit into the worldview of MLP.  It's not material that would really be appropriate for the series, and part of the appeal of the show is its simplicity.  Friendship is magic harkens back to a time when things weren't as complicated as they are today.  We have enough moral complexity in the real world, I think that we need a place like MLP as a respite.

[Shanks 10,816]

It is possible to pull off but I highly doubt they are going to do it because for one thing it will take a lot more buildup to pull off such a concept than the show typically spends on villains and there is a huge risk with introducing such villain in a "girls show" because it is viewed as a bit too complicated a subject though I personally believe that is not the case. An extremist villain would especially be risky due to it covering very grim subject matter that many would not view as appropriate and could end up causing another situation like Derpygate.

[Wingnut 7,005]

"Morally gray" does not fit into the worldview of MLP.  It's not material that would really be appropriate for the series, and part of the appeal of the show is its simplicity.  Friendship is magic harkens back to a time when things weren't as complicated as they are today.  We have enough moral complexity in the real world, I think that we need a place like MLP as a respite.

For the most part, I agree.  With that said, MLP:FiM isn't afraid to push the boundaries at times of what's expected for a kiddie show.  All Mane 6 ponies have been shown to have well-rounded, complex psyches.  Since major characters are shown to be multifaceted, it follows that minors would be as well.  I'm thinking along the lines of Gary Oak, a simple anti-hero type from the Pokemon series.  Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh is somewhat darker and more complex.  Someone like him might be a bit much for this series. 

[Stellafera 3,836]

*cough cough* Lightning Dust *cough cough*

 

I think it works better to do this with the minor villains in this show; it fits the general slice of life mood better.

[Scootalove 10,689]

Maybe we could give the minor villains a chance to shine as anti-heroes and extremists.

 

They could have plenty of candidates to choose from like, Lightning Dust or Sunset Shimmer.

[Akemi Homura 7,681]

They can, but this series doesn't go by arcs. The concept would work quite well but it would ruin the free-flowing nature of the series. Who knows, though? In later seasons they could start experimenting with story arcs rather than one-shots.

[Astrobrony 655]

The villains in MLP are all very... strange...

 

They don't last very long, and they don't exactly pose a life-threatening...threat to the ponies. I don't know. I'll think about this more.

 

As for an anti-hero-like thingy-guy, that'd most certainly be interesting. I don't think it'd be too hard to pull this off. Gilda was kinda-sort of an anti-hero in that she was against the ways of which are good, (Pinkie Pie) but I think it'd have to be a little more complex than that. She was more of a rival than an anti-hero.

 

I DON'T KNOW. MLP villains are very... strange...

 

I always believed the long term consequences of eternal night (no sun = no food) made Nightmare Moon pretty dangerous.  Chrysalis could be considered dangerous as well since she and the changelings are essentially parasites feeding off of ponies emotions.  Discord was just IMHO, a prankster who took things a bit too far so his antics would be more annoying than dangerous in my books.  I have to think more about Sombra before I can come up with a conclusion for him.

[Cwanky 17,643]

I'm not really sure what you mean. Quite a lot of the main villains in the show were extremists that went all out to do what they could to win. Queen Chrysalis was the prime example of this. She had a simple goal: to conquer Canterlot and Equestria and feed her children at ANY and ALL costs. Thus far she's actually probably the only villain, aside from Discord that pulled out all the stops necessary to win, though of course Discord was a god of sorts.

 

Let's see what she did right shall we?

 

1. She sent a whole army that practically overwhelmed Canterlot.

2. Successfully deceived Canterlot, Celestia and the Mane 6, save Twilight.

3. Devised an elaborate scheme that sealed her main threat Cadence away.

4. Effectively neutralized the Elements of Harmony by blocking them off from their bearers.

5. Defeated Celestia in a head on battle and neutralized her too.

 

All that to ultimately feed and expand her colony of changelings. Pretty extreme and successful if you ask me. King Sombre can also be considered extreme, considering how much more malicious his intents were compared to other villains, slavery, ruthless dictatorship through coercion that mindf****ed the entire crystal pony population for centuries and banished them with him, that's pretty hardcore right there. Also given that he himself nearly broke Twilight and it was Spike in the end that saved the day. Both Queen Chrysalis and King Sombre showed that a lot of MLP villains can not only be extreme, but there methods can be surprisingly effective.

 

And now for a mini rant on Discord and how he's basically the Nolan Joker of MLP as an anti-hero:

 

Whether the creators of the show and Hasbro actually realize and acknowledge it, Discord is far more the anti-hero than even the audience (us bronies included) may suspect. For the record this not just because Celestia managed to "convert" Discord as an ally, but we'll get to that soon enough. My biggest gripe about the show, and perhaps they play upon this humorously though unwittingly too, is that Ponyville, and by extension Equestria, are so caught up being happy, peaceful and harmonious in their society that it almost seems utopian, to a heavily flawed extent. 

 

The ponies consistently show that they can't react remotely calmly or in an organized fashion to disasters of any scale, whether it be Nightmare Moon, a cow stampede, parasprites, or even a bunny invasion. Do the pegasi, unicorn and earth ponies responsibly team  up and take their respective social roles as volunteers to clean up and deal with the crises? No in all the situations listed they predictably fall back on Twilight or one or more of the Mane 6 to save the day. Lily's reaction here summarizes how the Equestrian folks might react neither Celestia, the Mane 6 or anybody came to save the day:

 

 

The ponies you might say, are too comfortable with their status quo of "harmony and peace" kinda like us with our well groomed lawns and work outfits, national security obsessions, traditional family values and nuclear families. The ponies rely so much on having control to achieve harmony and peace it becomes painfully silly. They've manipulated their environments to the point that they regard the actual natural environment and world as unnatural, again in a sense like modern society with our urban cities and limited exposure to nature and world outside our bubbles. The utopian bubble they confine themselves to even extends to xenophobia, AGAIN like us, fearing "different" people and concepts like Everfree and Zecora, mules and other nonponies. You might even say that the ponies choose to worship Celestia because as a goddess of sorts, she's "supposed" to give them a sense of security and maintain their utopian status quo.

 

Enter Discord, the embodiment of chaos. 

People are often quick to point out that Discord is overpowered and could easily destroy Equestria. But think of it this way. In his major appearance in The Return of Harmony did Discord ever once deliberately harm anyone? Think about that carefully. Yes he manipulated and brainwashed people but he regarded this all as "fun" and even as a game. He threw Ponyville upside down but he didn't actually destroy anything. He merely twisted and distorted what was already there. Compared to Chrysalis and Sombre, Discord was pranking his foes with toy guns and rubber snakes, the same can't be said for the former 2. 

 

Chaos as you see, isn't strictly a destructive force, but rather a disruptive force. Like the Joker in The Dark Knight, really all Discord was doing was disrupting the status quo of Equestria and quite frankly I cheered him on for what he did and I'd pay good money to see him turn the whole Equestria and Ponyville upside down again. You can hate me for saying that but its the honest truth. Chaos just as much as harmony, is a necessary part of society and life, much like death. It can teach us happiness, tragedy, failure, success, laughter, and it surprises us. If we lived in a safe bubble all our lives, we likely wouldn't learn to adapt, survive, explore, learn and yes have fun.

 

In many ways that's what Discord was truly trying to show the ponies and his contempt for them might be explained as to how they can go about living such boring, sheltered and overly "happy" lives. Its enough to give even me diabetes sometimes from the excess of harmony and happiness that goes around. Its not a wonder that Discord would despise such a world. And his conversion on Celestia's request. And how! On the face value it just seems like Celestia trying to recruit a powerful ally. But again it shows that Discord wasn't truly evil or an actual villain if at all to begin with. The symbolism is quite strong here. Celestia comes to acknowledge that chaos is something that Equestria needs to learn to live with, learn a lot from and use as a force of balance. Perhaps even Twilight in the future will have much to learn from Discord as well as a princess now. And instead of trying to overcome chaos by suppressing it with a false sense of harmony, its quite fitting that someone like Fluttershy, who's not just kind but understanding and open, would be the first to try and understand chaos and have it as a part of her life.

 

Discord thus truly is the anti hero of MLP:FIM, a neutral force that can be swayed to good or bad and plays a significant role in everyone's worlds. My rant is done for now. Goodnight and adieu to all.

[Spring Storm 276]

Sombra definitely felt like an extremist to me, with his wanting to enslave the Crystal ponies and all. But I do understand why there would be a want for another extremist, as Sombra had about as much character development as my big toe. Chrysalis and Nightmare Moon were extremists to an extent as well.

 

However, I definitely think the show has room for a villain who is even more of an extremist. It can still get darker without having to delve into PG13 territory.

 

As far as anti-heros go, I really feel like it might be too early to tell if Discord or Trixie are anti-heros. We don't know what Celestia even has planned for Discord, nor do we know for certain why he caused chaos in the first place. As for Trixie, we don't know if she'll even show up again (though I really hope she will). I think a character who is definitely an anti-hero would be interesting.

 

And I don't think either of these concepts are too big for a kids' show. Don't underestimate the intelligence of kids.

 

A bit aside from the point, I don't really understand why Iron Will is so often considered a villain. He wasn't mean and he didn't cause Fluttershy to be mean - she just took his advice a little too literally. Yeah, he was pushy, but to a reasonable extent.

[Dreadmallon 353]

   Well, I'm not sure about the writers, but I'm trying to make one.

 

   The writers could probably make a new character that is an anti hero. It doesn't seem like that difficult to create.

[Shanks 10,816]

As far as anti-heros go, I really feel like it might be too early to tell if Discord or Trixie are anti-heros.

I probably would in part because they are really not all that evil, Trixie lied about her defeating an Ursa Major with no consideration whatsoever for the potential consequences of such a lie which in and of itself is not too evil but is incredibly stupid, reckless and irresponsible. Sure she did try to get the alicorn amulet to one up Twilight but her turning full blown tyrant was due to the influence of it which dosen't entirely excuse her but still dosen't put her in the full blown evil camp. As for Discord the only thing that made him "evil" was that he as a force of nature which in his case is chaos is not inherently good or evil but is in fact neutral. Discord's goal was not to hurt anypony but just to spread chaos though he did have a complete and total disregard for whether or not it hurt anypony.

 

They do fall short though of the kind of anti hero the OP has mentioned though precisely because they are not really motivated by any sort of ideology or good intentions gone awry. The closest villain we had to that was Nightmare Moon who was likely born in part due to some legitimate grievances which Luna had grievances which maybe could have been handled a bit better but still for the minor antagonists the closest would have to be Iron Will. Sure he took his "assertiveness training" a bit too far but as we saw at the end of Putting Your Hoof Down he did keep his word "if you are not completely satisfied you do not have to pay" so he clearly has some sense of honor and possibly might have even had some good intentions for his seminars even if he did go about it the wrong way.

[PoniesPlease 365]

'One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist'

 

By that logic, isn't Chrysalis technically doing what's right for her people (I mean seriously, they only feed off love? Come on.) when she attacks Canterlot?

[Shanks 10,816]

By that logic, isn't Chrysalis technically doing what's right for her people (I mean seriously, they only feed off love? Come on.) when she attacks Canterlot?

True, she was acting in the best interest of her people which of course was not good for the ponies. But what made her evil was not so much the deception that was necessary to get food for her subjects but it was the cruel and sadistic pleasure she took from making the ponies suffer that made her evil. It is one thing to do what you must in order to survive even if that task is a tad grim but to actually go out of your way to make someone suffer goes heavily into evil territory.

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

I mean Like that Prince from Hellboy 2. He wasn't evil and he only did what he did because the humans were destroying his lands