The "Target Audience" Argument

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

So, what do you think? Is it wrong to voice your criticism about the show because it's supposed to be a "children's cartoon" or even such a one needs to meet certain quality standards, subjective as they may be?

 

I think that the second is true.  Mostly because this was never a problem for me to star liking it. I felt it was up to the challenge of being cute and innocent while watchable by adults. Of course, I don't expect to see a graphic display about some bloody war between the pegasi and the griffons before the time of Equesria.

 

Then again, we did have an image of ponies going through famish.

 

Anyway, what do you guys think? If more options are needed, say it and I'll add them.

 

And by the way, the search function is down, apparently. Sorry, mods. Merge it with topic another as necessary.

[Sir.Flutter Hooves 2,953]

In my opinon a Children's show should have some standards. We take little kids as stupid, put them in frount of a TV and they'll watch anything. But when we do that that's what they become. A Children's TV show needs to be smart, like MLP. But not to smart to loose the attention of the kids, and that's what MLP does.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

It's not wrong to voice criticisms for the show because it's a children's show, because some people are pretty serious about it.

 

The only time I pull the "It's a children's show!" argument is when someone tries saying it should be made into one of those shows like "Bleach" or "Full Metal Alchemist," you know, those Japanese cartoons that get all violent and gory.

 

Yeahh. Anime.

 

When someone wants to make it a show not suitable for 10 year olds, basically.

 

Because that's stupid.

 

Other than that, meh. No bearing on anything.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ~Sadistic ghostfk39~

[Scootalove 10,689]

A show for children should have some standards. A show that teaches morals while at the same time allows people to analyze it, is something that isn't easy but make it so it doesn't lose their attention.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Every show on the TV should have standards...

[Rocket 30]

It USED to just be for little kids, so in the beginning of mlp, I think that it's kinda silly to criticise the show. But as time progressed, the bronies showed up, and Lauren Faust became aware of us. The show wasn't just for little kids anymore; it was for little kids AND bronies.

 

I have nothing I would want to complain about, but I think that if anyone wanted to complain about something, since we're all the way into season four, it'd be justified. Not that they should spew hate filled rants; that's not criticism, that's just being rude.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

It USED to just be for little kids, so in the beginning of mlp, I think that it's kinda silly to criticise the show. But as time progressed, the bronies showed up, and Lauren Faust became aware of us. The show wasn't just for little kids anymore; it was for little kids AND bronies.

I have nothing I would want to complain about, but I think that if anyone wanted to complain about something, since we're all the way into season four, it'd be justified. Not that they should spew hate filled rants; that's not criticism, that's just being rude.

Other than one correction agreed. Lauren Faust hasn't written every MLP since Gen 1. She just created this generation. But yes, just that the progression occured quite abruptly.

[Moonlight 7,289]

A show should have standards whether made for children or not. It's no way wrong to voice criticism about My Little Pony or any other children's show, but you also shouldn't analyze every single detail because well...it's a children's show. Some things are not going to make sense. 

[Koelath 445]

All shows need quality. Full stop.

[Shanks 10,816]

The fact that this argument is even made shows a complete and total contempt for children by automatically assuming that just because it is for children that it be some watered down piece of drivel that is not fit even for 2 year olds. Yes Hasbro didn't have us in mind when they commissioned G4 but with how much money we are making them they are clearly not complaining, Children are not as stupid as people assume, yes children entertainment has gone down the toilet but "adult" entertainment has gone down the toilet much further much faster by becoming a seemingly never ending race to the bottom. We could just as easily use this same flawed logic to give more "mature" shows a pass because "it's just a grown ups show."

[RED20 289]

One of my favorite shows is SWAT Kats: The Radical Squadron, and it's for 12 year old boys. It's basically like watching an action show, but there's no swearing or drinking or sex, but it's still an action show. It doesn't have to be "adult" to be action.

 

That made no sense.

[Megas 27,966]

It's nice for kid's shows to have high standards, but there are somethings that are never worth complaining about. For example While continuity is always a nice thing, I never expect this show, any kid's show, or any kind of general episodic show to follow it 100%, it can be annoying sometimes sure, but I don't think it'll hurt the show that much. There are some standards the show should obtain, but as long as the pros outweigh the cons(like great character writing and/or interaction making up for lackluster story), for me at least it makes the episode worth watching

Edited December 9, 2013 by Junpei Iori

[Nature's Spell 526]

I'm working on a blog post about this topic and the differences between critical reviews and analysis. Basically my thesis is that reviews are focused on the good and bad and try to provide guidance. Do I watch or not?

Analysis is a way to fill in the gaps in the show and bring greater understanding about the show. To answer OPs question I think that analysis is as worthwhile as fanfic or any other part of the fandom. Heck people are still analyzing Sherlock Homes which started out, basically, as 19th century of mass market pulp fiction and was hated by its author. Good writing is good writing.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Nature's Spell

[NavelColt 22,883]

As far as the core concept goes, there is no argument about who the target audience is; that 'Y' in the corner of the screen does not stand for 'Yo Bronies', after all :3

 

As the majority believes, it's all about balance. You can give criticisms, but you need to understand when to stop and chill out, too.

 

I personally believe that both pure criticism and intense criticism is rather stupid; if you're incapable of watching the show as a fan, and instead nitpick things apart the moment an episode airs, you're doing life wrong. Criticism and intense debate should be something done after you watch and enjoy the new content of this media that's made for others' enjoyment. It's not your job to be a critic, and it's not about being right. It's about enjoying the fucking show

 

If things that you don't think were done well in an episode decrease your liking of it, that's fine, but the point I'm getting across is that way too many people can't enjoy things at face value, too. All they can do is over-analyze everything and look at each episode as 20-soish minutes of things that they liked or didn't like, as opposed to an episode of a show you're supposed to be enjoying.

[GrimCW 658]

I think its stupid to have the "target audience" in general as a basis for the ENTIRE thing.

It enforces false stereotypes and gender borders that society likes to put in place.

 

Why can't it be an in "general" with every show? while an "intended" audience may be there, why can't everyone be permitted to enjoy it?

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

I think you can to a certain point, as long as it's valid criticisms taking the shows intended audience into account. I will say there are those interesting people that throw reason out the window and say the show should be turned into Fallout Equestria or something, or give nudges to very adult fanwork and concepts. That would be crossing the line into "that's what fanfic is for you nimrod" There's plenty of things I enjoy in fanwork that I WOULD NOT want in the actual show.

 

That being said, when using the "the show can't be to smart, it's for kids" argument you need to step back and read up on Don Bluth, and maybe go watch some of his work like Secret of Nihm and All Dogs Go To Heaven. He believed that the average person vastly underestimates children and that they can comprehend quite a bit as long it's wrapped in a happy ending and the hero wins. 

I think its stupid to have the "target audience" in general as a basis for the ENTIRE thing.

It enforces false stereotypes and gender borders that society likes to put in place.

 

Why can't it be an in "general" with every show? while an "intended" audience may be there, why can't everyone be permitted to enjoy it?

 

Not if you just say the intended audience is just kids in general.   

Edited December 9, 2013 by Shoboni

[jish55 20]

Honestly, if it didn't have standards, we wouldn't be here discussing this. I personally believe that since mid 00's, most children shows went far down hill, and became idiotic and didn't hold any real intelligence. Now it's ok to indulge in idiotic shows on and off, but kids need shows that will not only entertain, but actually treat the audience in a mature matter. 

[King Sejong 859]

   The Nostalgia Critic said in his "Cat in the Hat" review, target audience and focus groups should not be an indicator to just put images on the screen, lame jokes risqué for children or immature for adults, or disrespect their intelligence, there has to be talent and appreciation for the youth, the Animaniac and the Tiny Toons were written quite well, my parents enjoyed them as well as I had, plus looking back on the shows, they predicted and warned of the weak children's shows, that blight our TV screens and are little more than candy for the soul, took much of it can be detrimental to anyone's development. I am grateful for "Avatar the Last Airbender" and "My Little Pony Friendship is Magic", they present humour, morals, and action all balanced, that had long been vacated by those who seem to exploit children as consumers only, rather than a cognizant viewer, I criticize children's programs and channels all the time, and I don't fear reprisals, all you have to do is see it for the rubbish that it is, for example "The Oogieloves and the Big Balloon Adventure", I have seen that movie, so try to watch it if you can to see the point, but do so at your our risk.     

[GrimCW 658]

Not if you just say the intended audience is just kids in general.   

 

This is sorta what I mean. Why isn't it an in general intent for it being a show for all rather than for boys or girls specifically?

Due to the themes played in the shows? 

This is where it enforces the gender stereotypes way to much IMO. Kind and friendly = girls, violent and problem solving = boys.

I agree there shouldn't be extremely adult content in a kids show, no way. But theres no reason an adult has to watch a show thats loaded with sex and violence all the time either.

 

 

Loved Don Bluth's work btw when I was a kid, and kids today still love it. Theres something to be said for that. They were mystifying and telling. Entertaining, and entrancing...

Not only for children, but also very much for adults as well.

All without being excessively preachy to one side or the other.

In a way, MLP almost borderlines this to some degree IMO. It doesn't step on the "girls only" band wagon and have exceedingly pink fru fru everything like most do/did. It keeps a fairly neutral basis on most of its design. Nor do its characters don't tread the very girly cheerleader fashion stereotypes (well.. Maybe rarity..).

Its biggest girly theme would be that its mostly non-violent, and has a mostly female cast.

whoopdy doo...

 

@, 

Helluva runon, but love the point, and nostalgia critic

Haven't been there in a bit though, he was getting very.. i dunno, just bad for a bit...

Edited December 9, 2013 by GrimCW

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

 

This is sorta what I mean. Why isn't it an in general intent for it being a show for all rather than for boys or girls specifically?

Due to the themes played in the shows? 

This is where it enforces the gender stereotypes way to much IMO. Kind and friendly = girls, violent and problem solving = boys.

I agree there shouldn't be extremely adult content in a kids show, no way. But theres no reason an adult has to watch a show thats loaded with sex and violence all the time either.

 

 

Loved Don Bluth's work btw when I was a kid, and kids today still love it. Theres something to be said for that.

 

@, 

Helluva runon, but love the point, and nostalgia critic

Haven't been there in a bit though, he was getting very.. i dunno, just bad for a bit...

 

 

 As someone who's Dad got the idea to get me into TMNT as a kid because my sister was obsessed with it, I can attest to how bullshit that stereotype is, I also don't like how it's fine(and even considered cool) for girls to like boy stuff, but the inverse is considered creepy.

 

I love NC to, to bad he's gotten a little mean-spirited in some of the reviews since the reboot. As someone who grew up with it, his Sailor Moon review was just painful to watch, granted from what Dog said on Facebook it's clearly the Critic talking more than his own views, but still. It seems like that point made in the Show Must Go On about realizing that the people that make and watch these shows are human to, and the implication that the Critic would develop to be more understanding as a person was wasted and thrown out. 

[Mr. Critical 434]

Oh boy, this old chest nut. Okay first off. I critisize because I care and want to see it get better. It is not because of spite, its just professionalism.

-Second, depending on popularity, a target audience can be rendered null and void. Hence why I mostly encountered eight year olds on my run on modern warfare.(not a joke)

-Third, I hold mlp to certain standards because miss Faust and her team created what seemed to be a living breathing world. Its not just a setting for wild antics to be had. Except pinkie, she gets both.

So inconclusion, I know its a "kids show", but if whoever wants to tell me to stop watching it because of this. They are free to go sit in the corner and numb there minds with "jersey shore".

[IlikeBoris 13]

Season four is because of bronies, if rumor holds true.  So that season should hold up to great writing that you can show to the children.

 

I caught one or two episodes of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Ness:_Secret_of_the_Loch when it aired, and it seemed a poor merging of Smurfs and My Little Pony.  As far as I can tell, it was for Kinder-gardeners in American 80's standard.

 

My Father was a Doctor Who fan in the 80's, and argued that he liked a children's show.  Further arguments how it was better than American children shows because of the lack of coddling.

 

I'm a little out of touch with modern cartoons since I guess it's been about four years since I've had the convenience of having constant noise broadcast into my tv instead of having to seek it out on the internet.  (Long explanation short... I could probably receive broadcast channels with a little monkeying.)

 

Avatar: The Last Airbender was another show that seems to have surpassed it's demographic.... If the sequel has mature teenagers, that means the original demographic ranged from not noticing the difference between girls and boys to expressing that awkward stage where you're confused about whether they have cooties or you actually want to be friends.

[GrimCW 658]

I also don't like how it's fine(and even considered cool) for girls to like boy stuff, but the inverse is considered creepy.

 

I've heard that often girls will tease each other over watching/liking boys things, but aside from general " why do you like that?" I've personally seen little of it ever happen. Not being female though, I've little input that works there.

 

But thats actually one of my bigger gripes on the way society thinks.

If your a guy into "girly" things your automatically either homosexual or a pedophile.... There is no middle ground for us here according to most. 

Never got that.

[Dark Qiviut 22,534]

The concept of "audience" hasn't been and will never be a good excuse. If you're working professionally in the field, then it's your duty to deliver high-quality material to the masses regardless of the roadblocks. Friendship Is Magic stood up to the scrutiny and, for the most part, delivered because Faust and DHX made sure that the product is capable of attracting multiple demographics regardless of "audience." The brony fandom is able to sustain quantitative popularity in part because the quality is still up there in some capacity. I'm still watching the show and am heavily involved in the community because the show is still high in quality; I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that. If Season 1 was run-of-the-mill horseapples like G3 and many of 4Kids's anime dubs were, the fandom and show would've figuratively died the before the second episode aired. I review and scrutinize because I intend to see if FIM's standards of quality and respect for the general audience are fulfilled.

[Pixel Stick 927]

I'm in the "It's a kid's show, but it should have some semblance of logic and standards" camp - as in, I believe ANY show made for children should have standards, ESPECIALLY if you want that show to have any sort of educational quality.  But at the same time, I'm keenly aware of the fact that this show is made for children, NOT for adults, and as such I should not judge it as I would a show meant for adults.

 

Basically, what it means is that I feel I should be able to enjoy the show as it was intended - as a little child.  It's a rare show that makes me feel comfortable doing that, but FiM does.  And the fact that FiM is also sophisticated enough to appeal to the adult in me makes it about 20% cooler.   As such, my favorite episodes are the ones in which both parts of me are charmed and satisfied by the end.

 

But I think it's naive for someone to say we shouldn't criticize it because it's meant for kids - that's not a reason to be critical of it, IMO.  If anything, the fact that it IS meant for kids should be a reason to be MORE critical of it than, say, stuff on Adult Swim, simply because shows that DON'T have high standards tend to not serve as good examples.