Alicorns vs US military?

[FractalMoon 378]

I have NO idea what you just said but okay. xD

The Tl;Dr is that physics thinks your magic is cute and kills you anyway. Have a nice night

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

It's not that, I just had a decently in-depth post and it annoys me too much to re-write it. Assuming that alicorns can somehow make thermodynamics their bitch (Which shouldn't be possible, at least in this universe) then they may be able to survive the nuclear bombardment for as long as their bodies hold out without food/oxygen, but the moment they want supplies they'll have to drop the shield and face the glow (assuming the magic shield is somehow smart enough to allow some light/heat in and not the vast majority of it)

The problem here is that magic is pretty much cheating. Any field of physics means nothing when we throw "the natural" out the window. It's no wonder people started talking about the Deus Ex Machina Spell when talking about episodes. Logic goes out of the window. We are also talking about a character that has so many blanks in her development that just to make the discussion work we have to assume a lot of things. Add to that the fact that we know next to nothing about the real workings of magic in Equestria and again, we have to assume too much. To be fair, I think that a discussion about royal guards fighting the US military would be more interesting because the royal guards are not supposed to have ridiculous amounts of power, and honestly, I think that it would be them doing the fighting.

 

Just a thing: you're talking about a continuous barrage of indeterminated weapons of mass destruction. She could just teleport to a safe area after the resisting the initial bombardment. Is there a way to know she is no longer there?

[FractalMoon 378]

The problem here is that magic is pretty much cheating. Any field of physics means nothing when we throw "the natural" out the window. It's no wonder people started talking about the Deus Ex Machina Spell when talking about episodes. Logic goes out of the window. We are also talking about a character that has so many blanks in her development that just to make the discussion work we have to assume a lot of things. Add to that the fact that we know next to nothing about the real workings of magic in Equestria and again, we have to assume too much. To be fair, I think that a discussion about royal guards fighting the US military would be more interesting because the royal guards are not supposed to have ridiculous amounts of power, and honestly, I think that it would be them doing the fighting.

 

Just a thing: you're talking about a continuous barrage of indeterminated weapons of mass destruction. She could just teleport to a safe area after the resisting the initial bombardment. Is there a way to know she is no longer there?

 

The problem here is that magic is pretty much cheating. Any field of physics means nothing when we throw "the natural" out the window. It's no wonder people started talking about the Deus Ex Machina Spell when talking about episodes. Logic goes out of the window. We are also talking about a character that has so many blanks in her development that just to make the discussion work we have to assume a lot of things. Add to that the fact that we know next to nothing about the real workings of magic in Equestria and again, we have to assume too much. To be fair, I think that a discussion about royal guards fighting the US military would be more interesting because the royal guards are not supposed to have ridiculous amounts of power, and honestly, I think that it would be them doing the fighting.

 

Just a thing: you're talking about a continuous barrage of indeterminated weapons of mass destruction. She could just teleport to a safe area after the resisting the initial bombardment. Is there a way to know she is no longer there?

Assuming the barrier is translucent, yes. The naked eye may be unable to see into it due to the nukes, but a satellite could still get a nice look. I agree that we should be talking about something more like the Royal Guards vs. the military, because that's a fight that could actually occur, but in the case of Alicorns vs. Humans it honestly comes down to where the fight occurs. It's just a big crap shoot. If we had some sort of word-of-god about how the magic works I could actually run the numbers, but since we don't I can't.

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

Assuming the barrier is translucent, yes. The naked eye may be unable to see into it due to the nukes, but a satellite could still get a nice look. I agree that we should be talking about something more like the Royal Guards vs. the military, because that's a fight that could actually occur, but in the case of Alicorns vs. Humans it honestly comes down to where the fight occurs. It's just a big crap shoot. If we had some sort of word-of-god about how the magic works I could actually run the numbers, but since we don't I can't.

Since we are now talking about Equestria's Royal Guard the ponies just got ROFLstomped. Because, seriously... Those guys need a serious reformation. They couldn't handle the changelings when six civilians beat the crap out of a bunch of them. 

[FractalMoon 378]

Since we are now talking about Equestria's Royal Guard the ponies just got ROFLstomped. Because, seriously... Those guys need a serious reformation. They couldn't handle the changelings when six civilians beat the crap out of a bunch of them. 

Not to mention that it canonically requires ponies to train for many years to become royal guards (based on the idea of magic kindergarten and 'flight school') whereas you can just give a human an AK-47 and spend five minutes teaching them how to use it before you have just created a veritable killing machine. 

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

Not to mention that it canonically requires ponies to train for many years to become royal guards (based on the idea of magic kindergarten and 'flight school') whereas you can just give a human an AK-47 and spend five minutes teaching them how to use it before you have just created a veritable killing machine. 

It would go beyond that. Magic kindergarten and flight school sound like basic education. Royal Guards must have an academy of sorts, like the Wonderbolts.

 

And you're right.. The advantage of the humans lie more in their tools than anything. In the show, the only weapon (outside of magic) would be spears and cannons (it's a stretch, but if Pinkie has a party cannon, I hope that the military would have actual cannons). Bullets have been mentioned, but I never saw anything that resembles a musket or early rifle in the show. I'd think that the royal guards would be carrying them in Canterlot Wedding if they had this sort of weapon, so they probably don't have anything like that.

 

To me, it sounds like the ponies could hold their own against forces from the Renaissance, and even them, I think they'd have trouble with the actual cavalry. Well, they have an air force... Something that didn't exist at that period. All their advantages however vanish with modern times. And even if magic would be a big game changer, I doubt that, even if they have the numbers, the ponies could field a force capable of making a stand against a serious effort to drive them back. It's just ridiculous.

[GXPBlast 597]

I really dont understand this though, the worse these ponies have faced are Chysalis and NMM.

I understand this "its magic" which is all well and good but the MLP universe as it stands now has yet to encounter such large devastation of many nuclear bombs going off at once. I mean even cluster bombs and coordinated airstrikes against the Alicorns in an overwhelming fashion would do the job if planned right and went undetected until it was to late.

The MLP universe has yet to see such devastation seen in other television shows or the crap we see in human history.

Arguments like "she can lift the sun" is like saying Broly from DBZ has wiped out an entire galaxy of planets, yet he was still defeated. Until I can see the Alicorns show the capability of doing what we have seen in other shows like in the Marvel Universe or DBZ and do more than shoot magical lasers out of their heads I might agree with some of the arguments here.

What i do agree is that they could possibly win, but its not super likely against a military that could overwhelm them in sheer weaponry that the ponies have never seen. Even if the Alicorns were to escape the initial blast, they would come back to a planet that is pretty much lifeless and with so much radiation that lasts for thousands of years, that they may die from radiation.

But in uncannon fanfiction Alicorns have similar powers to marvel characters and have survived things that no human would be able to fight against even with nukes. The only way the Alicorns would be defeated in uncannon stories is by another character with similar magic/power or by causing a star to go supernova onto of the Alicorns.

Cannon Alicorns have a chance in the 40/60 area. But I have yet to see the MLP universe face the destruction of multiple bombs and nuclear weapons which is basically replicating the sun on a planet which can go up in the millions of degrees and depending on the blast yield can expand many miles.

Edited March 27, 2014 by FurzVette

[Twinkfeather 54]

Nope. Always something that can pass through wards, and i'd love to see them even attempt to survive a hydrogen bomb, wards or no, the hydrogen in your cells will fuse and you are dead.

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

Do you think that an alicorn like Celetia or Luna could beat our military? I believe they can!

 

I believe The Flood would pwn everybody, because they can infect brainz and are amazingly fast and brutal.  Durrrrp.

[GXPBlast 597]

Nope. Always something that can pass through wards, and i'd love to see them even attempt to survive a hydrogen bomb, wards or no, the hydrogen in your cells will fuse and you are dead.

How about not one hydrogen bomb but possibly thousands of them in order to get a first strike advantage or to just overwhelm them. If the Alicorns find out about what is happening before the U.S military has a time to strike, I don't think its impossible for the U.S military to win, but it will be much harder. First strike and overwhelming force is key in this fight. Their planet may become inhabitable with millions of dead ponies and possible extinction of their race along with other species, but hey the job will be done.

Edited March 23, 2014 by FurzVette

[Twinkfeather 54]

How about not one hydrogen bomb but possibly thousands of them in order to get a first strike advantage or to just overwhelm them. If the Alicorns find out about what is happening before the U.S military has a time to strike, I don't think its impossible for the U.S military to win, but it will be much harder. First strike and overwhelming force is key in this fight. Their planet may become inhabitable with possibly millions of dead ponies and possible extinction of their race along with other species, but hey the job will be done.

I was thinking more along the lines of a covert operation utilizing a Davy crockett modified with a smaller nuclear payload and converting it into a hydrogen bomb...it'd fit right under someones bed

[Icedog68 71]

It really depends. I think that candance and twilight sparkle would be unable too, but I think that maybe luna and for sure celestia, could defeat the military. I'm pretty sure celestia's magic could shield her against a nuke and bullets

[FractalMoon 378]

It really depends. I think that candance and twilight sparkle would be unable too, but I think that maybe luna and for sure celestia, could defeat the military. I'm pretty sure celestia's magic could shield her against a nuke and bullets

Yes, her magic could shield her, but she would still die. There exist in this world many things for killing things behind shields

[Scootalove 10,684]

It depends. If the military has something that can defeat magic, which they would need something nuclear to at least try to weaken them. Other than that, it could be a draw.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

I remember arguing over this in another thread. If we look solely at the power Celestia and Luna have canonically shown, they could probably take on individual soldiers, but would fall to any coordinated assault by a troop of men or the like. But I'd like to think a mare with the power to move their planet's celestial body has additional powers we haven't seen.

[Hive King 1,998]

Okay, the alicorns are getting heavily wanked in this thread. An RPG is enough to turn Celestia and Luna to red mist....that's it, just one lucky shot with an RPG. Considering that Twilight was keeping up with Celestia in the past, Celestia and Luna aren't exactly the best fliers. 

 

Here's what happens, Celestia and Luna get treated like tanks or airplanes and probably get taken down with a Surface to Air Missile.

 

God, the amount of fanboys in this thread is insane.

 

BTW, shields don't make a damn difference when freaking bugs can headbutt them to pieces

It depends. If the military has something that can defeat magic, which they would need something nuclear to at least try to weaken them. Other than that, it could be a draw.

Why? Celestia was floored by Nightmare Moon's energy blasts, but those blasts were barely capable of destroying stone pillars.

 

Sure, they could use magic to turn the missiles into oranges, but they won't be able to react fast enough for that to happen

[Scootalove 10,684]

Why? Celestia was floored by Nightmare Moon's energy blasts, but those blasts were barely capable of destroying stone pillars.

 

Sure, they could use magic to turn the missiles into oranges, but they won't be able to react fast enough for that to happen

Then, Celestia and Luna could stand a small chance until the missiles or any heavy artillery start coming in.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Scootalove,

Not really. An RPG could do the same thing as their beams. Celestia and Luna are about tank level in terms of durability 

[Scootalove 10,684]

@@Scootalove,

Not really. An RPG could do the same thing as their beams. Celestia and Luna are about tank level in terms of durability 

So they can handle tanks, maybe?

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Scootalove,

Not really. An RPG could do the same thing as their beams. Celestia and Luna are about tank level in terms of durability 

 

Not what my source from OBD wiki said before as last I checked they were rated at star level durability mainly because Celestia was actually banished to the Sun by Nightmare Moon upon her return and survived just fine.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Scootalove,

Maybe. They won't be taking tank shells...but with their greater mobility, they can take them down 

Not what my source from OBD wiki said before as last I checked they were rated at star level durability mainly because Celestia was actually banished to the Sun by Nightmare Moon upon her return and survived just fine.

That's fanon and even if it did happen, that means little. When Nightmare Moon was imprisoned on the Moon, it was only symbolically, since I don't think her face would fit on the Moon

[Scootalove 10,684]

@@Scootalove,

Maybe. They won't be taking tank shells...but with their greater mobility, they can take them down 

So we could rule this as a draw?

[Adente 1,000]

Alicorns lose. Period. A flying unicorn against intercontinental ballistic missiles, stealth bombers, heavy tanks, and thousands of infantry? Please, all four princesses together would be turned into glue within minutes. 

 

However, that's all speculation, because we don't know what those shields are capable of blocking. I'm still siding with the US Military.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Scootalove,

No, the alicorns have a greater chance of winning. I think treating them as aircraft is accurate 

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

I came to the conclusion that this whole discussion is pointless comparison between oranges and apples. Way too many blanks on the Equestrian side of the equation. I pull a Deus Ex Machina spel out of my flank and I win. The universe is now mine! MWAAHAHAHAHA!

 

This kind of thing works in fictions where the author determines, for starters, how is it that pony magic works.