spoiler Simple or grand? How would like your Season 5 finale?

[[NULL] 906]

Since we've had three consecutive finales that are written as very epic with plenty of stakes

Are you sure we both watched the same third season?

 

 

...Sorry, I just felt like nitpicking.

 

why not change the pace a little and revive the innocence and simplicity of season one or season two?

Again, there are plenty of slice-of-life episodes in the show. How does arranging the episodes so that it ends with a slice-of-life episode change anything? (Aside from having a perplexingly underwhelming ending to the season.)

 

 

Instead of putting heavy emphasis on Twilight, why not give them all equal focus? Remember, this show is about the magic of friendship, not magic itself.

I still don't know where everyone got the idea that Twilight isn't the protagonist of the main story. It was kind of introduced that way in the very first episode. Hell, TBNE is the only finale where she wasn't the main focus.

 

Sure TBNE may have worked as a finale at the time, for what it was worth, (assuming it was even originally meant to be the finale) but if it was made today, it would just seem like another slice-of-life episode, and an odd choice for a finale.

 

And yes, I hate out-of-place pop culture references too, but that doesn't necessarily mean every pop culture reference ever made is automatically bad. If it's a reference that wouldn't make sense in the context of the episode, and you have to get the reference in order to enjoy the episode or understand what's going on, then yes. It's a bad thing. However, I have yet to come across any like that in the show (recently).

 

 

But who am I to talk? Us bronies don't know what we want. We don't care about proper story structure, the hero's journey, character arcs, or any other fundamentals of storytelling that everyone's brains are hardwired to enjoy. All we want to escape this EEEEVIL world and go somewhere else, full of cute ponies without any pesky trials, high stakes, or MEEEEAN and EEEEVIL villains!

Edited January 29, 2015 by SpaceOnion

[Cleverclover 1,525]

I still don't know where everyone got the idea that Twilight isn't the protagonist of the main story. It was kind of introduced that way in the very first episode. Hell, TBNE is the only finale where she wasn't the main focus.

 

I was always under the impression that Twilight was the central focus of a cast of six main characters. But hey, that's just me. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me that after Twilight's ascension, people indeed began to view Twilight as the only main character of the show while the mane five are simply her support/sidekicks. Up to that point at least, the themes of FiM had always revolved around the mane six overcoming challenges and obstacles through friendship, rather than individual efforts.

 

And this is exactly why Twilight's Kingdom is a complete insult to the themes of the show. Forget "Friendship is Magic", this shit is all about Twilight now. All the mane five get reduced to helplessness while Twilight instead gets a power upgrade so that she can be portrayed as the final hope for all ponykind. And for what? So I can see the character whom I used to find relatable reduce herself to the level of trying to take a life purely out of vengeful bloodlust? Yeah, that's really the kind of "development" her character needed, wasn't it? 

 

It could have just been that Rainbow Power would have gifted all the mane six enough power to defeat Tirek together, but unfortunately, that would have just taken away from Twilight. 

 

 

 

All we want to escape this EEEEVIL world and go somewhere else, full of cute ponies without any pesky trials, high stakes, or MEEEEAN and EEEEVIL villains!

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a big reason why FiM became so popular among older audiences in the first place because it's a slice of optimism in an otherwise pessimistic world? You'll have to forgive me if I would rather watch the show for what actually drew me in about it instead for the sake of seeing "epic" anime-like laser battles. 

Edited January 29, 2015 by Cleverclover

[True Rarity 1,239]

Mash them together. Make something simple develop into something epic. I would like to see Spike end up causing the problem, and it takes Twilight to calm him down and stop destroying everything.

 

Wait... That sounds a lot like "Secret of My Excess". Okay, let's try this again.

 

More evil Discord, maybe. And maybe Twilight has to make some big decision - save Discord or leave him no mercy?

 

Wait... That's "Twilight's Kingdom". Um...

 

Either way, something epic is bound to happen if it's the series finale. But let's hope it's not. Let's hope it's just a season finale and we get something simple.

Edited January 29, 2015 by True Rarity

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

If the entire season involves them running off across Equestria to solve problems big and small like the Comic Con preview implied, than yes, a simpler episode would be a nice change of pace. What would be cool is if the episode was the cap for character threads from throughout the season. For example, if the Cutie Mark Crusaders do in fact get their cutie marks like many believe they will, than maybe the episode would contain the aftermath of that and show the CMC deciding what to do now that their series-long goal has been completed. Have Rainbow Dash officially become a Wonderbolt after being a part of the reserves during the season. If there was a romance being developed, have it pay off. Have a little scene between Celestia and Twilight reflecting on what they've gone through over the course of the season, or have a defeated villain make a quick cameo that maybe sets up the next season. Perhaps it means the episode won't stand up on its own, but I'd think that make a nice respite after whatever crazy villainy the Mane Six dealt with in the past few weeks.

[Silver Letter 1,830]

The season one finale was good as an episode but it lacks serious interest. Anyone could easily guess what would happen in the episode from earlier in the season. The ponies had expectations of the gala that were unrealistic and their failure was not surprising. Is it a good season finale and should this type of ending be suitable for season 5? It can happen but I recommend including something that is rather interesting for the viewer, whether it's epic or simple. Just don't forget, visiting a castle and enjoying a once a year (at least) gala isn't something a person or pony does everyday. There is nothing slice of life about "The Best Night Ever".

[Sazama Ichida 2,352]

I think I want Grogar to be the finale villain.

[[NULL] 906]

I was always under the impression that Twilight was the central focus of a cast of six main characters. But hey, that's just me. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me that after Twilight's ascension, people indeed began to view Twilight as the only main character of the show while the mane five are simply her support/sidekicks. Up to that point at least, the themes of FiM had always revolved around the mane six overcoming challenges and obstacles through friendship, rather than individual efforts.   And this is exactly why Twilight's Kingdom is a complete insult to the themes of the show. Forget "Friendship is Magic", this shit is all about Twilight now.

Right, apparently Twilight being tasked to make friends in the first episode was never meant to build up to anything significant.

Also, if they were to always make the resolution to every conflict be through friendship, don't you think that they would eventually become contrived? Is that specific resolution really the glue that holds the show together?

If the supposed lack of focus on the rest of the main six is what you're worried about, then you can rest assured that more often than not, there are episodes that don't focus on Twilight.

 

 

 

. All the mane five get reduced to helplessness while Twilight instead gets a power upgrade so that she can be portrayed as the final hope for all ponykind.

Yeah what is this? A Twilight episode? My god, this is as much of an outrage as when Rainbow Dash rescued the Wonderbolts, while everyone else watched helplessly from the sidelines! What, did the writers think that was a Rainbow Dash episode, or something?

 

Ignoring the fact that that Twilight saving the day is nothing new to the show, what's wrong with having the main character reach the peak of their struggle during the midpoint? Isn't that how storytelling works?

Oh wait, competent storytelling doesn't matter anymore. Apparently all that matters is if the episodes have enough things that remind people of Season 1 at face value. For instance, friendship lessons.

I'm sure a lot of people love A Christmas Story 2.

 

 

 

You'll have to forgive me if I would rather watch the show for what actually drew me in about it instead for the sake of seeing "epic" anime-like laser battles. 

Of course, because that one scene is the only thing that I watch the episode for. I'm obviously too stupid to appreciate Discord's properly developed reformation, Twilight being given a bigger responsibility, then finally discovering her role in Equestria, thus setting up for new possibilities for the next season. Obviously the importance of that flew over my head, so why don't I just watch Michael Bay's Transformers instead?

 

 

 

 

But who am I to talk? Us bronies don't know what we want. We don't care about proper story structure, the hero's journey, character arcs, or any other fundamentals of storytelling that everyone's brains are hardwired to enjoy. All we want to escape this EEEEVIL world and go somewhere else, full of cute ponies without any pesky trials, high stakes, or MEEEEAN and EEEEVIL villains!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a big reason why FiM became so popular among older audiences in the first place because it's a slice of optimism in an otherwise pessimistic world?

I rest my case.

Edited January 30, 2015 by SpaceOnion

[xX_PinkDragon_Xx 417]

I don't want something grand, I want something simple. Whatever they go with doesn't matter.

[King Sejong 858]

   To me, it's not either or, season five can have both. All of the seasons so far have had simple and epic moments, like any good tale, such as the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings, it is how the writers blend these styles that I wish to see, whether it is Simple Ways or The Crystal Empire, My Little Pony has those scenes that entice most of the audience, it has something to offer for everyone, looking for a good, ordinary tale or a grand journey to discovery, perhaps in the future My Little Pony Friendship is Magic would be one of those legendary fantasy stories, like the classic literary stories, for it has the potential to be remembered by those, in or out of the fandom.  

[Jeric 46,835]

Also, if they were to always make the resolution to every conflict be through friendship, don't you think that they would eventually become contrived?

 

Not every resolution. Remember the focus of the thread is to ask two simple questions: Do you want a finale that is low key and personal? If this were to happen, would you be OK with it? So the question does not preclude action or adventure plots throughout the season. It is the views on the final note to the piece that the question asks. Do I think that a low key resolution would be contrived? No. Many are pointing to The Best Night Ever. The ending to that went against the grain, and was not contrived in the least. 

 

As far as the comment about story structure, proper dramatic structure would allow for what I proposed - a denouement loosely connected to the penultimate episode(s) where the adventure arc's falling action occurs. The adventure fans (which I count myself among) get their epic, and the SoL fans get 22 minutes of the Mane Six easing back into their lives. 

 

It's been a while since that sort of finale aired, and the last time it did, it was well received. I see no objective reason why it would be bad. 

 

 

 

so why don't I just watch Michael Bay's Transformers instead?

 

Please for the love of all that is good and holy, NO! 

[[NULL] 906]

Not every resolution. Remember the focus of the thread is to ask two simple questions: Do you want a finale that is low key and personal? If this were to happen, would you be OK with it? So the question does not preclude action or adventure plots throughout the season. It is the views on the final note to the piece that the question asks. Do I think that a low key resolution would be contrived? No. Many are pointing to The Best Night Ever. The ending to that went against the grain, and was not contrived in the least. 

I didn't mean to imply that every episode solved with friendship was automatically bad. What I meant was if the writers were restricted to making every conflict solved with friendship, they would probably run out of ideas fast.

And like I said earlier, I'm not entirely against a slice-of-life finale, and I would be fine with it as long as it's really really good. By that I mean so good that it would make me forget about the misleading trailers.

 

As far as the comment about story structure, proper dramatic structure would allow for what I proposed - a denouement loosely connected to the penultimate episode(s) where the adventure arc's falling action occurs. The adventure fans (which I count myself among) get their epic, and the SoL fans get 22 minutes of the Mane Six easing back into their lives.

Yes, that's what I meant by a big epilogue. I guess I should've just said ending.

 

Please for the love of all that is good and holy, NO!

Relax, I wasn't going to watch it.  I'll be fine. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by SpaceOnion

[Cleverclover 1,525]

 

 

Right, apparently Twilight being tasked to make friends in the first episode was never meant to build up to anything significant.

 

I never said that. What I said was that I was under the impression that there were six main characters with one being the central character who's development receives more focus than the others. To me, that's a lot better than there just being one main character while the other five serve as, as the TC put it, "stepping stones narratively to approach her epic goal." 

 

In any case, Twilight being an alicorn has definitely created an imbalance between her and her friends, which was not nearly as prominent before she became an alicorn, despite still being the main focus of the two-parters. 

 

 

 

Also, if they were to always make the resolution to every conflict be through friendship, don't you think that they would eventually become contrived?

 

 

No more contrived than all these villains just coming out of the woodwork in the last two episodes of a season to put their plans to conquer Equestria into motion, as if they'll be any more successful than the last one. Perhaps not every conflict should be resolved through friendship, but the fact remains that it's still the main theme of the show. Which is why I hate Twilight's Kingdom for instead putting focus on single-character glorification to the point where the mane six taking him down together was really more of an afterthought due to how utterly anticlimatic it was in comparison.  

 

 

 

Of course, because that one scene is the only thing that I watch the episode for. I'm obviously too stupid to appreciate Discord's properly developed reformation, Twilight being given a bigger responsibility, then finally discovering her role in Equestria, thus setting up for new possibilities for the next season. Obviously the importance of that flew over my head, so why don't I just watch Michael Bay's Transformers instead?

 

 

Now you're just putting words in my mouth as well as being condescending for no good reason. I was talking about what I watch the show for, not what you watch it for. 

 

Also, just to let you know, that battle scene had absolutely nothing to do with Twilight's development in that episode aside from the fact that it took the rational and level-headed pony she was always portrayed as and reduced her to a vengeance-driven pony with a thirst for blood. The episode could have easily skipped over that scene and Twilight still would have ultimately come out of it learning the same thing. 

[[NULL] 906]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth as well as being condescending for no good reason. I was talking about what I watch the show for, not what you watch it for.

You're right. It was wrong of me to jump to conclusions like that. My apologies.

 

Of course, because that one scene is the only thing that I watch the episode for.

Also, just to let you know, that battle scene had absolutely nothing to do with Twilight's development in that episode

Shows how good I am at being sarcastic.

Edited January 30, 2015 by SpaceOnion

[Drunk Cheerilee 130]

Hmm.. with Discord now an honorary member of Team Harmony, there is a whole new world of possibilities for the writers to go with in Season Cinco. The finale? If their going for a glorious battle, it will be hard to top Twilight v. Tirec. Old Goat Face was unable to defeat the Magic of Friendship, despite having absorbed the summation of practically all remaining magic in Equestria, so.. it's gonna be fairly difficult to come up with a villain who stands a reasonable chance of giving Ms. Magic Pants a royal challenge (and again, the deceitful draconequus is on her side now).

 

As far as epic Alicorn photon beams go, that would be pretty cool. However,

I'd honestly rather just see Apple Bloom do pretty much anything      .  

So.. I'll take the SoL option

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,694]

I personally disagree. I think that a big finale is better, read my other post if you need to know why.

 

The Best Night Ever was great, but the show was different then. Back then it was a girls show that could be enjoyed by all ages, now its a show for all ages. While it did have a wonderful innocence that has yet to be replicated, the fantasy driven plot is part of what is so good about this show, and if you lost that at the end of a newer season, I personally would be disappointed.

Well, I'm not against a "big" premiere or finale on principle; this idea is marvelous when it's used effectively. The problem is that it's becoming kind of predictable. It doesn't have the same impact anymore because everyone expects a big thing to happen, and in turn the show's writers feel pressure to come up with the next big thing--if possible, an even bigger thing than last time.   

 

It's a cycle. It's also a formula, one that I don't think MLP needs to fall into. They're not a primetime show, and they're not going to lose viewers just because they don't begin and end every season with a bang. I think it's a valid concern that some of the same bronies who went " " at The Return of Harmony and A Canterlot Wedding, went "  " at Twilight's Kingdom. This pattern, coupled with the subtle shift in the show's target audience that you speak of, carries an inherent risk. It doesn't matter how big the shows look if it comes at the cost of that special, intangible quality that made many of us bronies in the first place. That something--innocence, simplicity, whatever you call it--is not gone, but I worry that it could gradually disappear if the show continues along this road.

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

As someone who has been watching more Mad Men than could possibly be healthy, I have learned that bigger isn't always better.

 

Best Night Ever is one of my favorite episodes for a reason. Hell, the concept of ending each season with an epic climax didn't even come about until the massively overrated Canterlot Wedding. FiM, like most shows, is at its best when it slows down and smells the roses. I'm fine with epics when they're nuanced and smart (see: Return of Harmony), but that's hardly ever the case.

 

Give us something simple for S5, and take us back to the roots of the series.

[cmarston1 5,951]

I would be fine with a simple finale if the season is more about adventure and solving problems all across the land or so have you as seen by the trailers. But if it isn't and is slice of life besides the two parters than I would be a little disappointed. But eh I still love the show so I don't think I would too disappointed.

A season all about that would actually be nice to see a low key finale as a sort of epilogue to the whole adventures.

Personally for a finale like this and assuming that this is the final season due to the 2017 movie and the Hub becoming Discovery Family I would generally like to see the characters all reflect on everything they have done and how they all have grown and changed over the seasons.

Their lives would start to change like the Cakes considering giving Pinkie Sugarcube Corner when they retire, Rarity getting some sort of deal with Fancy Pants to improve her business, Twilight getting new duties as a princess and more.

They would eventually come to terms with said changes and even though they begin to have less time to spend with each other they will always be friends and end the episode with some kind of moral to that extent or something.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Are you sure we both watched the same third season?

We definitely did. From my OP:

Magical Mystery Cure is slice of life with the stakes as high as The Crystal Empire. Twilight's friends' memories and lives were at stake, and the musical aspect thrust forward Twilight's will to persevere and "reward."

 

Magical Mystery Cure is slice of life, but it's in no way low key.

 

Again, there are plenty of slice-of-life episodes in the show. How does arranging the episodes so that it ends with a slice-of-life episode change anything? (Aside from having a perplexingly underwhelming ending to the season.)

I already made my point twice, and I'll say it again. A strength of Friendship Is Magic is character-driven stories.

 

Take a look at all of the top-tier episodes in the entire show. Sisterhooves Social, Sonic Rainboom, Party of One, Testing Testing, Suited for Success, Hurricane Fluttershy, Green Isn't Your Color, Lesson Zero. Character-driven character studies. Slice of life episodes with simpler storylines emphasize more on the characters rather than the action.

 

The last three finales are more action-based circulating on one moment. The Best Night Ever is a character-driven, simpler story that concludes a three-part arc spaced out in twenty-six episodes.

 

I still don't know where everyone got the idea that Twilight isn't the protagonist of the main story. It was kind of introduced that way in the very first episode.

Even though Twilight's the "key" to activating the Elements of Harmony, she's not treated as the main protagonist. Or at least, supposed to. Twilight wrote the lessons, but the others' focus was just as important, for they had the learn the values of friendship just as much as her.

 

The Return of Harmony capped that journey by having Twilight realize how much she and her friends learned the magic of friendship together. No one was going to defeat Discord without all six cooperating. As the moral goes, friendship isn't easy, but it's worth fighting for. Lesson Zero subverts the "Twilight's-the-true-lead" concept more by having everyone write lessons of friendship, a tradition extended into seasons three and four.

 

However, in the last three finales and two premieres, what was supposed to be equal attention to the Mane Six has suddenly become more of a focus on Twilight Sparkle. Her friends and Celestia are now treated as secondary or even background characters in those episodes. Consequently, as I already told you, that puts Twilight on much higher a pedestal and makes them look like inferior beings in favor of Twilight's more ambitious goals.

 

Episodes like TBNE buck this trend: All seven are equally focused on, and none are given any special treatment. This has been missing in the corner episodes since RoH.

 

Regarding the pop culture references, I didn't say all of them were bad. There are definitely some references that are cleverly inserted into the story, like the Western tropes in Pinkie Pride and Star Wars conclusion in Return of Harmony. Some teeter the line, yet don't cross it, like Pinkie's hilarious rap. But there were at least three from last season that were definitely obnoxious.

1. The obvious Dragon Ball "inspiration" from Twilight's Kingdom.
2. The Grumpy Cat cutie mark in Rarity Takes Manehattan.
3. Every single Batman reference in Bats!

It's one thing to be extremely subtle with your references and blending them in cleverly. It's another to be empty.

 

BTW, sarcasm doesn't legitimize your opinion. It weakens your whole opinion and strengthens the ones you respond to.

 

The season one finale was good as an episode but it lacks serious interest.

I disagree with you completely. Even though it was obvious the Mane Six's dreams were going to fail, no one knew how much they were going to fail. As TBNE progressed, their dreams initially looked good, but then not just failed, but hilariously so. The comedy in it is excellent. Each corner of the humor is fresh with plenty of satirical subtext. The great comedy keeps the audience attentive; each joke hits their mark because you never expected their expectations to blow up this badly. Thematically, it's easily the best executed story, which I explained already in this thread.

 

There is nothing slice of life about "The Best Night Ever".

You're objectively wrong about this. The Best Night Ever is as pure a slice of life episode as Green Isn't Your Color, A Bird in the Hoof, and Winter Wrap Up. The characters went to the annual event and looked forward to merely typical things while there. AJ waited for her sales. Pinkie wanted to party with others and make them happy. Twilight wanted to talk with Celestia. Dash wanted to meet the Wonderbolts. Rarity courts Blueblood. Fluttershy met the animals and wanted to spend time with them.

 

Atypically, they don't belong there, and the welcome mat was pulled under them. And unlike the others, TBNE ages better and better after every season. Again, ACW, MMC, and T'sK rely a lot on eye candy or the one scene. TBNE pays closer attention to every single scene; it's a simpler plot, but it's both fuller and more satisfying. A fantastic ending to a three-part arc.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Old King Q

[Silver Letter 1,830]

 

 

You're objectively wrong about this. The Best Night Ever is as pure a slice of life episode as Green Isn't Your Color, A Bird in the Hoof, and Winter Wrap Up. The characters went to the annual event and looked forward to merely typical things while there. AJ waited for her sales. Pinkie wanted to party with others and make them happy. Twilight wanted to talk with Celestia. Dash wanted to meet the Wonderbolts. Rarity courts Blueblood. Fluttershy met the animals and wanted to spend time with them.

Perhaps I am wrong but I am still confused and I hope that it is clarified but I will try to explain my reasoning. With this episode, even the title alone implies something special and unique, not the average and everyday. That is what "slice of life" comprises. If those things contradict at the title then it's probably not a slice of life episode. That doesn't even get into the very concept that the girls were invested in which was this grand gala that only happens once in a while. I was going to say once ever but I think Princess Celestia does infer that it happened more than once. Their reasons for going were extravagant and their excitement was unmatched. Fluttershy wished to go to the Gala because she believed that she would never see the animals in the garden otherwise. How is never being able to do something a part of the everyday? Aren't they objectively opposite?

 

It's certainly a good episode with great scenes. Does it make for a good season finale? I think that is hard to say. I am not even certain enough to decide firmly.

[A goat 323]

I think it should have high stakes. Twilight being a major political leader can lead to many intense situations.