S05:E24 - The Mane Attraction

[Sugar Sprinkles 48]

I do wish the show would give us some more background on AJ and Ra Ra. They also should give us more of the songs that Ra Ra did when she had her stupide manager. That one song was really cool. Though I don't understand why the unicorn had to put magic at her voice box for the first part. I could do that on my own.

[Rekon 35]

You know, I might be the only one who feels this way, but this kind of felt like a series finale to me.

Dunno why, and I know we have Season's 6 and possibly 7 confirmed, but it just gave me that vibe.

 

Also, feels. 

[OtakuBrony 349]

Howdy folks!

 

Well gotta say this episode is epic up the wazoo!

 

Amy Keating Rogers goes out with a bang in her final time as writer on the show.

 

Lena Hall is amazing as Countess Coloratura.

(Rara fer short)

 

Ashleigh Ball did great as Applejack as well.

 

Once again Daniel Ingram is DA man with the songs.

(Amy also wrote the songs too)

 

That Svengallop is a creep of a manager. (voiced by Colin Murdoch)

 

Has so many good feels it almost made me

 

Wouldnt mind seein Lena return as Rara in S6.

 

See ya!

 

Glad AJ helped out an old friend in Rara.

[Lucario14 26]

I can't decide which episode was better, this or Brotherhooves Social. Either way both get 10/10 and Lena Hall was absolutely incredible. 

 

The Magic Inside is my favourite song in season 5...sorry Diamond Tiara XD

[BrilliantVenture 335]

Alright...THIS is an episode I HAVE to post about...

Originally when the episode started, I thought I was going to hate it.

Once I realized the character was a Gaga reference, I was turned off...

I thought "oh great...a reference for reference sake with a predictable ending."

BUT...then I realized what this episode was all about. And as it went onward, it got better

and better to the point of genius.

 

Now what I'm going to say is just a theory...but I'm pretty sure I've got it 99.9% right...

This episode was a subtle expos'e on the corruption and evils of the majour labels in the

music industry. These are labels that sign artists at a young age, (too young to know what they're doing) trap them in basically a life long contract, limit their creative control to basically nothing,

force style changes, threaten venues/make outrageous demands, shelve "un-mainstream" work,

and basically rule their lives to the point of miserable madness! And if they try to leave?

They either end up dead, or with their careers ruined due to media slander.

 

This is a real life thing, and boy is it scary. A lot of people have been enslaved by labels unable to break free, and this episode kind of speaks up for them. Not only that, but the story of Gaga herself kind of is mentioned here. Before the fame, she was an opera singer. She was picked up by a label at a young age, and now well...you've seen the results.

 

I also thought the "Svengallop" character was a clever little thing, considering it's a play on of "Svengali." Now that's interesting to me for 2 reasons, one because gaga was put on a "stardom path" by a guy who went by that name, and also considering one of the most famous "svengali's" is the one known for creating the "svengalli deception deck" of gimmicked cards magicians all around the world still use today...lots of deception in the industry that's for sure. 

 

As far as the other stuff in the episode? It was all pretty solid. Good storytelling, good message, great theme, good pacing....and the song at the end? Breathtaking...(Expect a "Brilliant Venture Remix" somewhere down the line in the near future )

Overall, it was a fantastic episode, easily one of my favourites...

 

Boy was it good!

 

-8.5/10-

Edited November 23, 2015 by BrilliantVenture

[Spagem 505]

The Magic Inside is my favourite song in season 5...sorry Diamond Tiara XD

I'm feeling the same way. We got so many great songs this season (and hopefully we'll have more to come with the upcoming season finale) that it's incredibly hard to choose favorites.

 

Props to Daniel Ingram.

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Overall, this episode is a bit of a mixed bag. Coloratura is a likable enough character, and I think the audience does develop some desire to see her succeed while not being a stereotypical overproduced self-absorbed diva. "The Magic Inside" is a good song, and even "The Spectacle" is listenable. However, Svengallop is portrayed as essentially a one-note, selfish and controlling manager. Applejack's stubborn refusal to believe Coloratura has changed grows tiresome, even as it eventually leads to Coloratura's manager walking out and Coloratura being true to herself. Everyone else's impatience with Applejack in the first third or so of the episode for not knowing Coloratura is annoying. And I can't help wondering what the consequences of the events of this episode will be for Coloratura's image and career.

 

First, as mentioned above, everyone's impatience with and incredulity at Applejack not knowing who Countess Coloratura is, and Applejack's not knowing that she's "obviously" a demanding diva, is annoying. Pinkie in particular seems to have a nasty and condescending attitude toward Applejack. I can't help feeling defensive on Applejack's behalf. What, is everyone in Equestria expected to stay on top of current music celebrity culture? Is it unacceptable for someone not to listen to current pop music and know who all the current pop stars are? That seems to be the implication of everyone's reactions (e.g., Pinkie's "How-how-how-how-how have you not heard of her?!"). I could easily find myself in Applejack's position, since I essentially don't follow or listen to current pop music at all. And I also don't hold it against other people if they haven't heard of popular music artists I listen to from the '70s or '80s or whatnot, even if those artists are well-known and majorly successful.

 

On a related note, it's a little strange to me that ALL the rest of the Mane Six other than Applejack seem genuinely enthusiastic about Countess Coloratura's performance; we might think that they would have sufficiently different tastes in music that at least some of them wouldn't like her kind of dance-pop.

 

Applejack's realization of who Coloratura is, and her subsequent stubborn insistence that Coloratura is an ordinary pony and not a high-maintenance diva, is also annoying and tiresome. If Applejack knows that her childhood friend Coloratura had a special talent for singing even back then, and that she wanted to go to Manehattan to make it big, wouldn't Applejack at least consider whether she's Countess Coloratura, rather than just dismissing that possibility out-of-hand? And once Applejack makes that realization, she stubbornly clings to her memory of Coloratura's personality from back then and refuses to believe that she could have changed. If we take Applejack's story at face value, Applejack and Rara spent time together at Camp Friendship as kids, and wrote to each other for a bit afterward (at least until sometime after Apple Bloom was born), but then lost touch. So Applejack probably hasn't heard from Coloratura in years, and maybe not even at all since she became a pop star. Therefore, it doesn't seem like Applejack has a sufficient basis for her repeated declarations that Coloratura isn't a demanding diva, that she's just a plain old pony, etc. Nor does it seem like Applejack should be as utterly shocked as she is when she sees Coloratura not acting like the pony she remembers - wearing a veil and "fashionable" clothes, vapidly giving out "hoofsies", performing highly-produced dance-pop, etc. Applejack's relatively brief (as far as we can tell) childhood experiences with Coloratura are no guarantee that she has retained the same personality characteristics as an adult and particularly as a celebrity. It doesn't seem too far-fetched to imagine that someone could act differently as an adult than they did as a kid. Consequently, I don't really like that Applejack's unreasonable stubbornness about this is partially responsible for Coloratura's confronting her manager and her "transformation" away from the Countess Coloratura persona.

 

Applejack's first exchange with Coloratura about Svengallop threatening to pull her from the concert if his demands aren't met is also frustrating. First, Applejack is being needlessly tactless about saying that Svengallop doesn't care about Coloratura's charity work. By denouncing Svengallop in such harsh terms, Applejack is only triggering Coloratura's instinct to defend him. If Applejack hadn't done that, then Coloratura probably would have been willing to confront Svengallop about his threat to pull her from the concert against her wishes. That could have avoided the need for Twilight for record Svengallop berating Pinkie later, although I suppose Svengallop could have just denied that he made any such threat. Furthermore, it seems a little hasty of Applejack to jump to the conclusion that Coloratura is being used/manipulated by Svengallop for his own selfish gain, and that she just can't see it. It could just be that Svengallop really believes that Coloratura would find his demands reasonable and want them satisfied, and would cancel in protest if they weren't. That would be a misunderstanding of the extent of Coloratura's loyalty to him (and her judgment of the reasonableness of his demands), as compared to her devotion to charity, but that wouldn't necessarily imply evil intent. But of course, Applejack won't let her hasty conclusion go, and she inexplicably turns out to be right.

 

Next, there are some issues around maintaining Countess Coloratura's image throughout the episode and retaining her fans. As a disclaimer, I don't follow celebrity news at all, and I know next to nothing about the backgrounds, charitable causes, political views, personal beliefs, etc. of the music artists I listen to. So my perspective on the episode's portrayal of maintaining Coloratura's image and retaining her fans may not necessarily be accurate.

 

Svengallop talks after Countess Coloratura's first arrival about how Countess Coloratura made a big, bold, absolutely stunning entrance, but I'm not quite seeing it. She showed up to the location of the concert as it's still being set up, and it appears that most of the ponies around are ones helping with the set-up. In other words, it didn't look like any big well-publicized event. Consequently, Svengallop's complaint that the interaction with Applejack ("that dusty farmpony") muddied her entrance seems strange. First, I have to wonder how much anyone would really dwell on Coloratura's and Applejack's 20-second exchange. But besides, wouldn't exchanging pleasantries with the pony in charge of setting up the charity concert be good PR, showing that she really cares about her fans and the charity she's performing for? And couldn't meeting and chatting with one of her non-famous childhood friends show how, despite her stardom, she's still down-to-earth and relatable, which would be appealing to her "ordinary" fans?

 

Coloratura and Svengallop also seem to have different understandings of what Coloratura's image is and how to maintain it. When talking with Applejack after the schoolpony meeting, Coloratura says that leaving the festival, as Svengallop threatened she would do, would "completely ruin my image". On the other hand, Svengallop is excited when Coloratura "cancels" the schoolpony contest, saying that it does nothing to promote the Countess Coloratura image that he built. Svengallop later derides "all this charity and schoolpony contest nonsense" as "just remnants of that boring little Rara I met back in Manehattan". So who's right? Are Coloratura's charity/schoolpony events hurting or helping her image? We would probably like to believe that it's the latter.

 

Finally, at the end of the episode, it seems as though Countess Coloratura might change her name and the style of music she performs, in order to be more true to herself and her talents, and perhaps also because her previous persona was the creation of Svengallop, who isn't working for her anymore. And while the audience at her first performance seemed to like the song she performed, I can't help wondering whether she would maintain the same popularity and success she's had as Countess Coloratura. Would her previous fans stay loyal to her? Who's to say that her previous fans would enjoy her new persona and style of music? Is the lesson of the episode that Rara's being herself and performing to her vocal strengths would make her just as, or more, popular than her Countess Coloratura persona? Or is the lesson supposed to be that Rara should just be herself, regardless of whether doing so makes her (or keeps her) popular?

 

Now for my other miscellaneous observations:

 

Is it important that the water imported from Rainbow Falls is in glass containers? I thought the fact that Pinkie specified that they're glass containers meant that someone would break them at some point and create a problem, but nothing like that came of it. Maybe Svengallop demanded glass containers because they're more "high-class", and pointing them out was just showing the particularity of Svengallop's demands.

 

Obviously Svengallop is out of line in demanding imported Appleoosan oats and 500 pre-peeled, pre-cored apples on such short notice. What is Svengallop doing to do with 500 pre-peeled, pre-cored apples anyway? Are they for other ponies  - the dancers, make-up/costume artists, sound engineers, etc.? If so, why not send that request with the other requests that Pinkie did fulfill, in order to give sufficient preparation time?

 

Coloratura's accusation that Applejack is just badmouthing Svengallop because she's jealous seems like a non-sequitur. If Applejack were jealous of Coloratura, why would that lead to Applejack (supposedly falsely) insulting her manager? What would that accomplish?

 

Why are Pinkie and Applejack peeling and coring the 500 apples by themselves with only their own manual labor? If Coloratura's appearance at the festival is that important, couldn't they ask for others' help, or temporarily hire help?

 

In the second exchange between Applejack and Coloratura about Svengallop, Coloratura acts skeptical of Applejack's claim that Svengallop doesn't care about her charity/schoolpony events, and rather testily asks Applejack how she's going to prove that claim. Applejack then tells Coloratura to "do exactly what I say". But if Coloratura is already skeptical of and exasperated by Applejack, then why would she agree to do exactly what Applejack says?

 

Pinkie coughs up an apple core after Svengallop calls her to cancel the schoolpony contest, but why would Pinkie have swallowed an apple core? The device she's using to core the apples wouldn't necessarily even involve any use of her mouth.

 

In addition to Twilight's projecting video of her magical recording from her horn onto thin air (i.e., we don't see a screen there before or after the fact), the audio of it sounds as though it's coming out of the loudspeakers. I suppose I should know not to question how exactly Twilight's spell does this, so I'll just say that it's interesting.

 

Svengallop defiantly asks Coloratura what she can even do without him, since he was the one who made her somepony, before walking out. But she's already rich and famous, right? I wouldn't think it would be too difficult for the biggest pop star in Equestria to find candidates to be her new manager. Sure, Coloratura had probably developed at least a somewhat close working relationship with and reliance on Svengallop, but it's not as though his walking out automatically ends her pop star career.

 

Coloratura thinks the performance will be terrible, supposedly because Svengallop was in charge of everything - the lights, the visuals, the sound. But wouldn't all of that pretty much still be set up and ready to go? It's doubtful that Svengallop was personally mixing the sound during the concert, triggering the lights and visuals, etc. He would have been directing other ponies to do all of that. So, unless Svengallop took all of those other ponies with him, the work of designing, setting up, and running the show is already taken care of, right? If so, Coloratura could just perform the show as planned, and it wouldn't be a disaster as she thinks it will be.

 

Rara says that "this song may be familiar, but yet, it's totally different". So was the song reworked from some original form as a dance-pop Countess Coloratura song? If so, who did that, and on such short notice?

 

Also, were the backing string musicians and conductor already there, perhaps to perform for a different act that night? It seems like pretty short notice to book them and/or convince them to play an additional song.

 

There are several inaccuracies/criticisms that could be pointed out about Rara's piano playing, and the piano itself, during "The Magic Inside": Rara's hoof motions often are blatantly not in sync with the music; the song has many quick multiple-note runs and multi-note chords that would be very difficult, if not impossible, to play using only two hooves; lifting one's hands/hooves high above the keys while playing, as Rara does several times, would generally be considered poor technique; the piano doesn't have any pedals, but the music certainly sounds as though pedals are being used; and the keys on the piano are not laid out in the typical half-step arrangement, and don't appear to cover a very broad range of notes. It's one of those cases where ponies use something which was originally designed for use with human hands, fingers, etc., but the show's creators didn't want to alter it too much and make it unfamiliar to the audience.

 

Finally, I find it unfortunate that the backing string musicians and their conductor are behind a screen the whole time, and are lowered below the stage as the song is finishing, such that the audience never gets to see them or applaud/cheer for them specifically. This probably comes from my years spent in band, but I would have liked to see the backing musicians performing, too. Maybe the screen is supposed to ensure that the audiences' attention is on Rara, but she's already front and center and has the spotlight on her. Also, it would have been nice for the backing musicians to have been recognized explicitly. I think it could have gone well with Rara showing her "true" humble self to recognize them, especially considering that they would probably have gone unappreciated if Svengallop were still in charge.

[cider float 2,539]

I think Countess Coloratura is inspired by Lady Gaga. Coloratura is an italian term and in English refers to an elaborate melody. Lady Gaga is of Italian descent.

 

The word coloratura refers to many things in Italian such as color and can describe her cutie mark that has different colored musical notes together.

 

Also reminds me of that G1 MLP episode with Knight Shade and his evil manager.

Edited November 23, 2015 by cider float

[TwilightAngel 109]

Hahahaha. You're making too much sense,can't have that.

[cider float 2,539]

Hahahaha. You're making too much sense,can't have that.

Ouch, ugh can I haz cake now?

[MLPFanatic34 3,241]

I really liked this episode, it was nice to see another new character introduced and I really like Ra-Ra, I also loved the relationship between her and Applejack and how they had nicknames for each other, the music was fantastic and I loved the overall moral and lesson. Also the manager sort of reminded me of another character I'd seen in a show, and yeah I loved how Ra-Ra is based off Lady Gaga lol. 10/10 episode!!

 

Also Pinkie had the craziest faces in this episode!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cider float 2,539]

I guess the title Countess could be canon and would imply that there are countesses in Equestria.

[Cimarronboy 250]

I can see what all the "Rara" hype's about. Seriously that Equestrian anthem blew my mind. I literally like blanked  mentally and just focused on that voice, what a voice. I have difficulties thinking of anything else in the episode other than that, the gaga act, and the sodding sven manager of hers, whom I may add could use a little "Sandman"/Volbeat mashup at max with a stage full of those huge speakers. I wanna power chord his plot til her can't stop jittering, he got to me so bad. Again though that voice of Rara's...... dangerously powerful.

[Miles 2,514]

 

Insert Durarara!! joke here.

 

LOL!  Props.

(Though, Durara!! was one of my least favorites so far.  I liked it, but not as much as what else I've seen.)

http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Triton_330

 

---
 

Christopher Walken Pony: "Hey, Svengallop! You're talking to my girl all wrong; it's the wrong tone! You do it again... I'll stab you in the face with a soldering iron!"

 

YES!  

(Isn't it "smack you in the face" though?" - I could be wrong, idk).
 

---

 

I don't think you guys understand the relationship of an owner and their manager. Svengallop is RaRa's employee. He works for HER, as a she is a client. It doesn't matter what kind of relationship you have with your client, what kind of things they've done for you, it doesn't even matter if they slept with you. If your client is not acting in your best interest, you can and should let them go as a client. If the relationship is not a healthy one, then it should not be continued. Svengallop believed he was acting in RaRa's best interest, but was actually hindering her personal image. Had she caved to more of Svengallp's demands than she did, she likely would not have gone as far in the business. You get further in life with sugar than vinegar. Had RaRa succumbed to being the cold, heartless, bitch that Svengallop wanted her to be, then she would have been treated like a cold heartless bitch. And nobody wants to host a cold heartless bitch as their entertainment. 

 

Oh good, Dinos, you beat me to the point I had planned on making.  (That means less typing for me hehe).

Yes, I absolutely agree here.  Sven was Rara's emploee; Rara was Sven's employer.

What does a boss do with employees they don't like?

"Buh-Bye!"

And therefore, I see no harm no foul in this episode.

Furthermore, for those of whom suggesting AJ hurt Rara's celeb-rep...  Who cares???  Rara is happier without that prick of a manager snapping at her!  It's not about fame, it's about friends and happiness.

---

Overall this episode was fantastic.  I give it a 9/10.

~ Miles

[takai 1,060]

My reaction to Lady Gaga pony:

 

So, um....are we just going to overlook that AJ basically destroyed "Countess'" whole mega pop star career? Straight up left her without a manager to handle the performance list, stage props, lights, makeup, sound , everything. And no doubt a chunk of her fans won't like the new , or rather old her. No doubt her reputation that exceeds even Sapphire Shores as the pony of pop is ruined, now that she's content with being herself. Never considered you'd ruin your filly friend's entire career, before you intervened, didja, Apple Jack?

So we're just ignoring that whole issue? Guys?

 

(See 18:34 )

 

 

Very glad someone brought that up. While Svengallop was a grade A douche bag, having her lose her manager was pretty crappy. But she IS the number one idol in Equestria, so I can't imagine her not being able to find another one.

 

My main problem is that as soon as Applejack saw her, she judged her and pretty much said "I'm not a fan of what she looks like or how she does things. I want it to change to what I want." Perhaps Coloratura liked the lights, dancers, costumes, makeup, and music? Who is Applejack to say they're wrong?

 

When people ask me why I'm not a big fan of AJ, this pretty much sums it up. She's a buzzkill and pretty dark selfish.

Edited November 23, 2015 by takai

[cider float 2,539]

Very glad someone brought that up. While Svengallop was a grade A douche bag, having her lose her manager was pretty crappy. But she IS the number one idol in Equestria, so I can't imagine her not being able to find another one.

 

My main problem is that as soon as Applejack saw her, she judged her and pretty much said "I'm not a fan of what she looks like or how she does things. I want it to change to what I want." Perhaps Coloratura liked the lights, dancers, costumes, makeup, and music? Who is Applejack to say they're wrong?

 

When people ask me why I'm not a big fan of AJ, this pretty much sums it up. She's a buzzkill and pretty dark selfish.

I'll be honest I liked her as Countess Coloratura more than just normal Coloratura. 

[ManaMinori 4,149]

Very glad someone brought that up. While Svengallop was a grade A douche bag, having her lose her manager was pretty crappy. But she IS the number one idol in Equestria, so I can't imagine her not being able to find another one.

 

My main problem is that as soon as Applejack saw her, she judged her and pretty much said "I'm not a fan of what she looks like or how she does things. I want it to change to what I want." Perhaps Coloratura liked the lights, dancers, costumes, makeup, and music? Who is Applejack to say they're wrong?

 

When people ask me why I'm not a big fan of AJ, this pretty much sums it up. She's a buzzkill and pretty dark selfish.

don't care much for AJ, but I'll gladly take her over Twilight, the neurotic, insta-magic solution/disaster, pincess of books and friendship bribery

[Dark Qiviut 22,681]

Very glad someone brought that up. While Svengallop was a grade A douche bag, having her lose her manager was pretty crappy. But she IS the number one idol in Equestria, so I can't imagine her not being able to find another one.

 

My main problem is that as soon as Applejack saw her, she judged her and pretty much said "I'm not a fan of what she looks like or how she does things. I want it to change to what I want." Perhaps Coloratura liked the lights, dancers, costumes, makeup, and music? Who is Applejack to say they're wrong?

 

When people ask me why I'm not a big fan of AJ, this pretty much sums it up. She's a buzzkill and pretty dark selfish.

You're wrong about this.

 

1. When Applejack saw Coloratura perform that dance and song, AJ knew something wasn't right. For one, it was out of character of Rara. Did this make her successful? Yes. But it lacked her soul. She was singing and dancing to Svengallop's vision of her, not Coloratura.

 

2. It would've been very selfish of Applejack if she let it all slide. Coloratura wasn't showing the soulful side whose emotion can really impact the melody. Everything felt mechanical. Sven emphasized the visuals and choreography over her, which she misinterpreted as a compliment. Essentially, Svengallop brainwashed her. He manipulated her into believing she had a mutual business relationship with him when in fact he only looked after for himself. The veil she wore is a visual metaphor for partially this reason.

 

This episode is about showing Applejack's best qualities: her honesty, integrity, restraint, patience, intelligence, and ability to plan. Many of her episodes show her overcoming her flaws, but TMA has her putting those lessons she learned into use so they can improve. Applejack wouldn't act and plan to reveal the fraud without a solid reason.

 

3. Coloratura is very charitable. Spending time with the school ponies was one of the events she anticipated. The only reason she decided to cancel it was because she believed he had good reasons. When he was outed as a fraud, she used her employer status to fire him. It no longer matters if Svengallop made her successful. He abused her fame to get what he wanted. Fame means nothing if you're being somepony you're not.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[takai 1,060]

You're wrong about this.

 

1. When Applejack saw Coloratura perform that dance and song, AJ knew something wasn't right. For one, it was out of character of Rara. Did this make her successful? Yes. But it lacked her soul. She was singing and dancing to Svengallop's vision of her, not Coloratura.

 

2. It would've been very selfish of Applejack if she let it all slide. Coloratura wasn't showing the soulful side whose emotion can really impact the melody. Everything felt mechanical. Sven emphasized the visuals and choreography over her, which she misinterpreted as a compliment. Essentially, Svengallop brainwashed her. He manipulated her into believing she had a mutual business relationship with him when in fact he only looked after for himself. The veil she wore is a visual metaphor for partially this reason.

 

This episode is about showing Applejack's best qualities: her honesty, integrity, restraint, patience, intelligence, and ability to plan. Many of her episodes show her overcoming her flaws, but TMA has her putting those lessons she learned into use so they can improve. Applejack wouldn't act and plan to reveal the fraud without a solid reason.

 

3. Coloratura is very charitable. Spending time with the school ponies was one of the events she anticipated. The only reason she decided to cancel it was because she believed he had good reasons. When he was outed as a fraud, she used her employer status to fire him. It no longer matters if Svengallop made her successful. He abused her fame to get what he wanted. Fame means nothing if you're being somepony you're not.

 

1. That is a completely baseless claim indeed. In fact, Applejack only knew her during that camp period when they were fillies. That's implied that was years ago. People (and poines) change over time, Applejack only knew Cloratura liked to sing. So, my point still stands.

 

2. This goes back to point number one. Perhaps Coloratura enjoyed singing this type of music? While Svengallop was indeed the problem using his lies and deceit to get his way, Applejack was clearly not a fan of this type of music. Does that mean it's wrong? Applejack doesn't like all of Rarity's frilly dresses, does that mean they're wrong too? While Applejack exposing of Svengallop was indeed a good thing, Applejack was selfish in the judging of which a song that Coloratura more than likely wrote, as it was confirmed Svengallop did not write the song. I think they could've written this in a much better way to make Applejack be a lot less judgmental in this episode.

 

3. A moot point.

[roptiriolg 49]

There are several inaccuracies/criticisms that could be pointed out about Rara's piano playing, and the piano itself, during "The Magic Inside": Rara's hoof motions often are blatantly not in sync with the music; the song has many quick multiple-note runs and multi-note chords that would be very difficult, if not impossible, to play using only two hooves; lifting one's hands/hooves high above the keys while playing, as Rara does several times, would generally be considered poor technique; the piano doesn't have any pedals, but the music certainly sounds as though pedals are being used; and the keys on the piano are not laid out in the typical half-step arrangement, and don't appear to cover a very broad range of notes. It's one of those cases where ponies use something which was originally designed for use with human hands, fingers, etc., but the show's creators didn't want to alter it too much and make it unfamiliar to the audience.  

 

 

Sorry to point it out but.. it's a cartoon show of 20 mins... I dont think even the greatest movies of that time have such perfections, sometimes Im wondering... what did you guys expect from it? 

Edited November 23, 2015 by ImtR

[Cloud Strife 928]

1. That is a completely baseless claim indeed. In fact, Applejack only knew her during that camp period when they were fillies. That's implied that was years ago. People (and poines) change over time, Applejack only knew Cloratura liked to sing. So, my point still stands.

 

2. This goes back to point number one. Perhaps Coloratura enjoyed singing this type of music? While Svengallop was indeed the problem using his lies and deceit to get his way, Applejack was clearly not a fan of this type of music. Does that mean it's wrong? Applejack doesn't like all of Rarity's frilly dresses, does that mean they're wrong too? While Applejack exposing of Svengallop was indeed a good thing, Applejack was selfish in the judging of which a song that Coloratura more than likely wrote, as it was confirmed Svengallop did not write the song. I think they could've written this in a much better way to make Applejack be a lot less judgmental in this episode.

 

3. A moot point.

 

1. It was definitely not completely baseless. Number 2 will describe that in more detail.

 

2. Firstly:

a - When did it reveal that she wrote the song? I rewatched the scene with her talking to AJ about her manager and she mentions nothing of the sort.

b - The problem isn't that she likes that clothing or the flashing lights, the problem is that her manager clearly doesn't give a shit about what she likes or wants and is doing it for his own sake. If she likes those lights and colors then that's completely fine, but as it stands she's not the one who made that image of herself, as her manager asserts at least three times during the episode. It's very obvious that he made those decisions himself, whether she liked them or not. She did say that she was okay with it, but it's pretty heavily implied the reason she's doing that is because she's grateful for the hard work he put into making her a big name - the hard work she realizes was not in interest of her, but for himself. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that she herself wanted this image and the whole episode practically hammers it in that it was his idea.

 

Besides, it's clear at the end of the episode that AJ was right that it wasn't really her actual style, because by the end of it she doesn't use it, which dismantles your entire argument. You can play "what ifs" all you want, but the episode itself confirms several times over that she'd rather do it a different way, but went with what her manager said because she thought he was doing her a favor.

 

3 - It's not a moot point. You (or someone else in this thread idk) brought up the idea that AJ apparently "destroyed" her career. Dark Qiviut said, in a direct counterargument to that, that that's not important. That there's no point in her having a career if she's being used, abused, and will dislike what she's doing in the future. She doesn't deserve that. She deserves her integrity, to feel like she's worth something, rather than her brand name.

 

You note how he compliments his own work constantly? You note how when she's finally about to go on stage without his help, she feels she's absolutely nothing? That he practically made her a good singer, even though she already was one before he got his hooves on her? That's what the episode is putting on display here. That is a dysfunctional relationship between a director and their singer. Tearing down her self esteem, whittling away at it to the point she feels she's nothing without him, so of course she goes along with his ideas because he knows better than she does, and she becomes complacent. For her to have become a big name stuff like this has to have gone on for years. For years she's been going along with what somepony else tells her, and the only demand she makes is that she continues charity work (something AJ knows she loves), and even that he resents her for and is waiting for the day she'll cave to give even that up for his own sake. He's a greedy, money-mongering corporate who wants to use an artist for his own gain.

 

If all the flashing lights were her idea and he was just the tech support, then all of your arguments would be valid. But they weren't, and they aren't.

 

The song at the end, which is incredible, beautiful, and brought a tear to my eye, is more than enough proof of that.

 

Besides, I'd argue that her career is not destroyed as there is no displeased pony anywhere within her audience.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Lady Bow

[takai 1,060]

1. It was definitely not completely baseless. Number 2 will describe that in more detail.

Do we have actual proof that Coloratura hates this kind of music. No? Then it is baseless.

 

2. Firstly:

a - When did it reveal that she wrote the song? I rewatched the scene with her talking to AJ about her manager and she mentions nothing of the sort.

It is common knowledge that an artist writes his or her own songs, I rewatched the scene to be sure Svengallop didn't compliment himself on writing the song, but he was only responsible for the lights, choreography, and voice sound effects. Anyone with a pulse could probably tell you at that juncture that she probably wrote the song herself.

 

b - The problem isn't that she likes that clothing or the flashing lights, the problem is that her manager clearly doesn't give a shit about what she likes or wants and is doing it for his own sake. If she likes those lights and colors then that's completely fine, but as it stands she's not the one who made that image of herself, as her manager asserts at least three times during the episode. It's very obvious that he made those decisions himself, whether she liked them or not. She did say that she was okay with it, but it's pretty heavily implied the reason she's doing that is because she's grateful for the hard work he put into making her a big name - the hard work she realizes was not in interest of her, but for himself. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that she herself wanted this image and the whole episode practically hammers it in that it was his idea.

 

Besides, it's clear at the end of the episode that AJ was right that it wasn't really her actual style, because by the end of it she doesn't use it, which dismantles your entire argument. You can play "what ifs" all you want, but the episode itself confirms several times over that she'd rather do it a different way, but went with what her manager said because she thought he was doing her a favor.

I would say she has more than one style to offer, as a lot of people seem to really like her first piece. The song change at the end signaled a change that she would not be used by someone else for their own personal gain. But just because she changed her song dismantles nothing.

 

3 - It's not a moot point. You (or someone else in this thread idk) brought up the idea that AJ apparently "destroyed" her career. Dark Qiviut said, in a direct counterargument to that, that that's not important. That there's no point in her having a career if she's being used, abused, and will dislike what she's doing in the future. She doesn't deserve that. She deserves her integrity, to feel like she's worth something, rather than her brand name.

 

You note how he compliments his own work constantly? You note how when she's finally about to go on stage without his help, she feels she's absolutely nothing? That he practically made her a good singer, even though she already was one before he got his hooves on her? That's what the episode is putting on display here. That is a dysfunctional relationship between a director and their singer. Tearing down her self esteem, whittling away at it to the point she feels she's nothing without him, so of course she goes along with his ideas because he knows better than she does, and she becomes complacent. For her to have become a big name stuff like this has to have gone on for years. For years she's been going along with what somepony else tells her, and the only demand she makes is that she continues charity work (something AJ knows she loves), and even that he resents her for and is waiting for the day she'll cave to give even that up for his own sake. He's a greedy, money-mongering corporate who wants to use an artist for his own gain.

Nope. There is no "counter argument" as there is no "arguement" to be had in the first place. In no way, shape, or form did I indicate losing Svengallop would hurt her career, in fact I stated that given her popularity she could easily find another manager. I went on to use the transition "my main problem is" implying I didn't have an issue with Svengallop's firing. So really, the poster above and I are technically agreeing. Which from my standpoint was moot. If he had quoted the other poster I wouldn't have said anything. Reading comprehension is key.

 

If all the flashing lights were her idea and he was just the tech support, then all of your arguments would be valid. But they weren't, and they aren't.

"Flashing lights" and tech support are the same thing. He outright stated those were his ideas, but does that necessarily mean the music was his? No, it does not. Artists usually have more than one style of music in their repertoire anyway.

 

Besides, I'd argue that her career is not destroyed as there is no displeased pony anywhere within her audience.

Still can't figure out for the life of me why you think the topic of her career being destroyed came up. It didn't. Once again, reading comprehension is important.

 

The fact remains that Applejack was judgmental on a pony she didn't know well at all. That's the main issue, while I'll reiterate my point that it is great she caught Svengallop, I believe it could've been written better to make it seem like Applejack wasn't as judgemental as she was.

Edited November 23, 2015 by takai

[Truffles 2,033]

Okay, enough horsing around.

I see what you did there!

 

 

I don't know anything about it, and I don't want to know. I'm sure Starlight will be a big part of it. But I do have this dreadful feeling that one certain white pony, Luna's sister, whose name probably escapes everypony at the moment, is not going to show up at all

Without giving away any spoilers, I will say from the promo you at least won't have to make face confetti. Whether or not That Pony Whose Name Is Forgotten will have a positive character portrayal or not remains to be seen...

 

 

Coloratura's accusation that Applejack is just badmouthing Svengallop because she's jealous seems like a non-sequitur. If Applejack were jealous of Coloratura, why would that lead to Applejack (supposedly falsely) insulting her manager? What would that accomplish?

Oooh, ooh, ooh... I think I can answer this!!!

Perhaps RaRa wasn't saying AJ was jealous of her fame, maybe she was hinting AJ was jealous of Svengallop being with her? You'll note RaRa never actually specifies what she thinks AJ is jealous of, and in fact only brings up the notion of jealousy after AJ throws Sven under the bus.

 

The implication being... AJ felt something a little more than just friendship for RaRa back at Summer Camp. Maybe she confessed that to her at the end of the stay, but RaRa told her she didn't feel the same and they should only be friends? It would explain why they stopped writing letters after a while - it was just too awkward.

 

Of course, I would think AJ would remember her "friend" a little more than she did in the episode if there were still feelings. But maybe AJ moved on?

 

 

First, Applejack is being needlessly tactless about saying that Svengallop doesn't care about Coloratura's charity work. By denouncing Svengallop in such harsh terms, Applejack is only triggering Coloratura's instinct to defend him. If Applejack hadn't done that, then Coloratura probably would have been willing to confront Svengallop about his threat to pull her from the concert against her wishes.

 

I agree with this. The episode would have resolved itself a lot quicker if AJ had been more tactful. And for those who say AJ isn't tactful? Hello? She, the Element of Honesty, lied multiple times this season to be tactful!

 

 

Pinkie coughs up an apple core after Svengallop calls her to cancel the schoolpony contest, but why would Pinkie have swallowed an apple core? The device she's using to core the apples wouldn't necessarily even involve any use of her mouth.

 

I think the joke here is she got so buried in apple cores during the work that she accidentally swallowed one. I for one found it funny, at least.

 

 

And while the audience at her first performance seemed to like the song she performed, I can't help wondering whether she would maintain the same popularity and success she's had as Countess Coloratura. Would her previous fans stay loyal to her? Who's to say that her previous fans would enjoy her new persona and style of music? Is the lesson of the episode that Rara's being herself and performing to her vocal strengths would make her just as, or more, popular than her Countess Coloratura persona? Or is the lesson supposed to be that Rara should just be herself, regardless of whether doing so makes her (or keeps her) popular?

 

And this flows nicely into the next topic. But yes, this is the big question being debated now!

 

 

1. When Applejack saw Coloratura perform that dance and song, AJ knew something wasn't right. For one, it was out of character of Rara. Did this make her successful? Yes. But it lacked her soul. She was singing and dancing to Svengallop's vision of her, not Coloratura.

Like @@takai said in his reply, AJ really only got to know RaRa for a few weeks, or maybe a month or so during that Summer, plus whatever they wrote about in letters. I can say from personal experience I've had friends move away that I knew in grade school only to come back in high school totally different than when I knew them.

 

Is it my business to say to them they're not who they should be anymore? I think not. They still seemed happy, and it would actually be more selfish of me to try and turn them back into what I knew them as simply because it would have made me feel better.

 

Granted, RaRa was in a bad situation with a domineering manager, so he had to go. But I think everyone agrees on this point.

 

The debate is actually about what this means for her fans in how AJ "unplugged" the Countess and whether this is really in her best interests for her career.

 

AJ doesn't like pop music. I get it. I actually liked the unplugged RaRa's music stylings a lot better, myself. (Though I have to admit that darn "Spectacle" song is stuck in my head... argh.) And it's not clear in how the episode is written whether this is permanent for RaRa or whether it was done just for this performance due to the lack of a manager. I hope it's the latter, because:

 

Besides, I'd argue that her career is not destroyed as there is no displeased pony anywhere within her audience.

 

Well, at least not in Ponyville. Remember however, Ponyville is a rather rural town. Who is to say there aren't fans in Manehatten or any of the other large metropolises that won't be devastated that the Countess is dead and RaRa is all they're left with if this is indeed a permanent change?

 

Maybe she still has fans if she drops the glitz and autotune, but considering that's what made her popular, I don't think it will be as many as she had when she was the Countess. Her best course of action would be to integrate both ponysonas inter her act. If she's all about charity, then doing both should maximize the amount of help she can give to school ponies everywhere, even if it means not being true to herself 100% of the time.

 

Remember, she's an entertainer - her first duty is to entertain. We don't see Chris Pratt showing up as himself to sick kids in hospitals - we see him going as Starlord! The Countess is a character she plays, and if she's in show business she should have no qualms playing it for her audience. (And yes her manager was trying to make her personal life the same way, and that's why I said he had to go above.)

 

But, you say, the Countess isn't her true self - it doesn't matter what the fans of the "Countess" think - she has to be like who she was. What that's analogous to is how MLP G1 isn't like MLP G4. If someone like AJ came in and said MLP needs to go back to its roots and be more like how they remembered it as a kid and they go on to introduce all sorts of G1 elements in S6 like grimdark and... gasp - humans - into the show, I think a lot of bronies would be very upset at that. (And some would love it, too, I suppose! )

 

The same can be said for the fans of the Countess.

 

Anyway, sorry if this sounded too hateful towards AJ, I don't mean it that way. I actually love AJ a lot, but she can be too judgemental at times. But, as we know, nopony's perfect, right? It keeps her interesting!

Edited November 23, 2015 by Truffles

[Betelnut 13]

I loved the really bad pop song that Rara performs during rehearsal--all auto-tune, synthesizers, etc.  It was hilarious and AJ's response was spot on.  As I hear a lot of contemporary pop due to my daughter, I can attest that a lot of contemporary music is that over-produced and fake sounding.

 

Also, "Sven-gallop"--what a great name based on the famous Svengali character.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svengali

 

Other loves: Flashback with AJ and Rara, the songs (even the hilariously over-produced one), CMC who are always enjoyable.

 

Overall a decent episode.

[The Nth Doctor 664]

I loved the really bad pop song that Rara performs during rehearsal--all auto-tune, synthesizers, etc.  It was hilarious and AJ's response was spot on.  As I hear a lot of contemporary pop due to my daughter, I can attest that a lot of contemporary music is that over-produced and fake sounding.

 

Whoa whoa whoa whoa

 

Whoa

 

That was NOT a bad song, it's just there to show what her manager is making her do to build up her image instead of the things she really cares about, such as  Equestria Our Home and I Am Just a Pony

 

Although a filly belting out in that deep a voice had me in hysterics