S08:E08 - The Parent Map

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

>Stellar Flare and Firelight reveal their big plans to help them in the form of large scrolls, run off giddily, leaving SG and Sunburst with disappointed reactions

Quote

Sunburst: I think I liked it better when they were fighting.

[The Nth Doctor 652]

I sense Starlight and Sunburst are gonna get Luke and Leia'd at some point in the future...

This was a good episode, because Starlight didn't have to make anyone an idiot to look good for it

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Quote

Sunburst: Make a plan?

Stellar *singsong*: Already got one.

 

Quote

Stellar: Step three: Gt the Princess of Friendship to send you on more missions!

SB: Mom, it does not work like that.

SF: Uh-huh.

LOL!

The comedy's great in this episode, especially the dialogue-based ones. XD

Edited May 5, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[ChB 18,532]

Love it! Really good episode! I like the plot twist in the last act, even though I saw it coming. 

[Truffles 2,033]

A really fun episode. The dialogue was top-notch and the comedy hit all the right marks. It was a bit strange that the episode seemingly forgot about how miserable the town was because of all these rules and new ideas the parents were pushing. Maybe there was a hint that the parents were going to change and I missed it on the first viewing? Certainly the secret meeting in the off-limits bookshop seemed to indicate the rules were getting relaxed? I'll have to see when I watch it again.

Did David Rapp write "Triple Threat?" I was surprised to see a callback to that episode and see Spike integrated into the start of the story, even opening with a view of his statue in the Crystal Empire. Though the way he talked it sounds like he's done getting map missions.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

1 minute ago, Truffles said:

Did David Rapp write "Triple Threat?"

No, Josh Hamilton did.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

So I saw MLP Parent Map. Not much to say about this one except I loved the parents designs and the lesson. I particularly like Sunburst's mom's design. It was nice to learn more about Starlight and Sunbursts lives with their family. I too wondered where Sunburst's dad was and where Starlight's mom was.  
 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

58 minutes ago, Batbrony said:

Sunburst seems to have had a dad in his life at some point, but he was nowhere to be found now, which begs the question as to what he's up to as well.

Just like we saw Rainbow’s dad in the Equestria Games flashback... oh wait. It was just someone we assumed was Sunburst’s father, it could have been an uncle, or even someone who just looked like him.

[Violet Bookish 349]

I honestly have mixed feelings about this episode. I wanted to enjoy it but the parents kind of held me back. They were just so cliched. I like the lesson and thought it was rather heartwarming and I had a chuckle here and there at the comedic moments, but there was nothing that really stood out to me when it came to this episode. It honestly reminds me of the situation Rainbow Dash had with her parents but slightly altered and Starlight and Sunburst's parents were less interesting to me compared to them and felt more cliched. I just didn't find them enjoyable to watch. I loved some of Starlight's and Sunburst's reactions (especially Sunburst with the welcome door), yet I didn't feel all that invested in the plot. It was pretty obvious what the friendship problem was going to turn out to be after the parents stopped fighting and the rest of the episode consists of the parents doing the same annoying and cliched things over, and over, and over again. While this episode has some fun and funny moments, overall it felt like it was lacking and I just couldn't get all that invested in it. When it ended I found myself asking, "is that really it?"

I'm pretty mixed on this one because I really liked some aspects of it while others just bored me. For now, I think I'm going to give it a C+. A C because the episode was meh for me, felt like it was lacking, and while the parents had a few good moments, they were pretty cliche overall. Then the plus because it did have some fun and funny moments and I enjoyed Starlight and Sunburst in this episode. It's between a C+ and a B-, and right now I think I'm going to stick with the C+. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Kreamer
Fixing grammar errors and adding some clarification

[Dynamo Pad 10,777]

I just finished watching the episode and I really enjoyed it a lot. I'm surprised to see that we have another map episode so soon. Usually, it would be a good amount of episodes before we get another map mission. I guess with character development episodes, school episodes and map episodes all happening this season. Some episode may have been needed to be ordered differently. Sunburst was pretty funny when he found out he was being called for a map mission. It's pretty cool that we get to finally hear the name of the home in which both Starlight and Sunburst grew up at. For some reason, Sire's Hollow reminds me of Godric's Hollow from Harry Potter. Firelight and Stellar Flare were pretty interesting, but that does bring up the question. Who and where are Starlight's mother and Sunburst's father? I wonder if they were ever shown in the comics. Hopefully, we'll be able to see them in the future. It was pretty funny how Starlight and Sunburst had to show their parents, that their ideas for the town were unnecessary. My favorite was definitely opening the gate over and over, while the voice kept replaying. I don't know why, but it made me crack up at that part. I really liked how we got to see Starlight's old room. The room reminded me of Starlight's outfit design for her human form in Equestria Girls. I could understand why Starlight and Sunburst were upset at their parents, but I could also understand the parents' side of things. I'm glad they were all able to work things out and the moral, as well as the comedy, were pretty good.

This episode really hit home for me. I could really relate to Starlight in this episode, as her father reminded me of my father. My dad would always act like a fool and joke around here and there. There were times when I wanted to have a normal conversation with him, but he would always just be messing around. My dad passed away last year due to lung cancer and my mom explained to me why he acted the way he did. He acted like a fool to never let the bad times get to him. There were times when we had high bills to pay and other troubling times, but he acted goofy to keep us in high spirits. Just like how Starlight's father acted to make her feel safe. My dad was about the same way to keep his family and friends feeling safe from bad times. Now that he's gone, I can really understand how difficult things can be. He even put the feelings of others over his own. He helped me in going on a senior class trip even when it was expensive. He let me go to Bronycon when he was nearing the end of his days. He wanted me to not feel sad, but to feel happy, while enjoy and making the most out of life. It's why I really respect my dad and I hope I can aspire to be just as great of a man he truly way. It's why I can really relate to Starlight in this episode, as well as many others. When I lost my dad, it felt like she was there for me. Like she was always there for me, but I never realized it until later on. Starlight has become special to me and has affected my life for the better. I can relate to her from time to time, I can understand her in one way or another and she has become one of my favorite characters.

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. I hope we get to see Starlight's and Sunburst's parents again later in the future. 

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

Well that was certainly an episode and one that was easy to predict once things started happening. I don't really have much to say for this one other than the fact that both Starlight and Sunburst were given some backstory regarding their respective childhoods... sort of. I had hoped for more than what we got but it's better than not getting anything. Firelight and Stellar Flare made for some interesting parents though they do come off as being predictable once the initial problem was overcome. I guess you could say that I wanted more but can be satisfied with the end result.

[KH7672 1,604]

Now that the episode has officially aired I do have some things to address in terms of characterization and execution of both parents.

The first thing I want to comment on is the notion that due to their characterizations Firelight would make more sense as Sunburst's father and Stellar Flare as Starlight's mother, and yes that would be perfect.....if the whole point of the episode weren't about different mindsets and lack of communication.

If Firelight were Sunburst's father he wouldn't be as reluctant to go home in fact he would probably be living at home instead of the Crystal Empire. He would flunk out, Firelight would reach out to him saying he is more than welcome to come back to the safety of home where he can decompress and sort out his life comfortably with his father. He wouldn't have any confidence issues, because his father would be supporting him in his failures and not pressuring to improve (whether that's good parenting is another story).

Flipping the script, if Stellar Flare were Starlight's mother, after Sunburst moves away Stellar would immediately console her daughter on how to move on and improve her life, not be stuck in the past. But okay let's say Staright is as broken as the she is believed to be and Stellar's assertiveness has no effect, and Starlight still forms her philosophy. You can bet that Stellar's going to be keeping tabs on her, writing constantly makimg sure she is confident with this cutie mark plan. In other words there is no way she would be going through life alone like she did, whether her mother is checking up on her or breathing down her neck, it would make even less sense how she ended up the way she did unless Stellar Flare was just as insane in a philosophy.

So then there's the final question how DID Starlight end up where she is with a father like Firelight? An overprotective, caring, supportive, and not in anyway believed to be neglectful father, but does that mean he was always like this...he was always there?  I've seen it as "not always there" =/= "neglectful" which falls into the latch-key kid characterization. Firelight easily could have been a busy father having to work constantly and not home a lot for his daughter, but that didn't mean he didn't care about her. He is said to be overprotective and for a father who is not there too often it makes sense:

"Daddy will be home later tonight Starlight. Come straight home after school. And okay Sunburst may come over as well but stay in the house please, don't need you two to run into any strangers."

So now let's fast forward to Sunburst leaving. Now she spends days at home by herself, but okay she is clearly growing more and more distant (as evidenced by her emo room) why doesn't he be the caring father and do something?! Well that is where the episode fails in providing an explanation. He in all honesty seems to let her grow up in her isolated life and when she finally goes off on her own, he doesn't worry about her ventures and merely offers an invitation to return home whenever. However, Firelight is shown to be not only caring but also very reserved. He studies and relishes in history, partakes in solitary events; he is not one to butt in to one's life but to observe and cherish the life he and others have. It's why he would be so into preservation, for him there is no need to force change, just live the simple confortable life they always have and enjoy it. That's exactly what he did with Starlight. He didn't force himself into her life, he let her live her life as comfortably as she wanted but he does the same as well, which means showing his daughter his support and love even he wasn't there too often (again unsure if this was the best parenting strategy but it makes sense for him and in turn falls closer into Starlight's mindset as well).

In the end, I'm not going to argue with anyone who says they want more, I certainly would as well. But to say nothing makes sense based on what we have been shown for both of these two over the past seasons, I'd say the parents were exactly how they should have been portrayed given their children's lives we've experienced.

Edited May 5, 2018 by KH7672

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

When I first watched it months ago, I didn't like it as much as some others. Pacing was slow. Not seeing the parents' reactions as Sunburst and Starlight went through troubled times confined plenty of it to exposition and in the background. And called the dialogue clunky. Watched it again later on to give it a fairer chance, and I liked it much more. My complaints about the pacing and lack of flashback stand, but the dialogue was much better and cleverer than I once thought.

Now after watching it in full for the first time, my reaction remains the same as I watched the leak the second time around. This is a really good episode. Lots of great humor. Dialogue is on point. You can see where Firelight and Stellar Flare are coming from — why they're so fixated on their kids so much. Starlight had a really difficult childhood, while Sunburst couldn't cast magic beyond the simple (leaving SF to wonder about his future). The dialogue in itself is very expressive, with varying degrees of happiness, bravado, sadness, and frustration to subtly indicate how they feel around each other and their environments.

That said, their resolution lack that oomph. If we see them watch them struggle, then perhaps the parents can garner more sympathy, and the audience can really gravitate to why they're so latched onto Starlight and Sunburst. Having their worries mostly confined to telling deflates the conflict some.

That said, I'm really glad I gave it the second chance it rightfully deserved. This episode is really good with many great moments and morals kids and adults alike will relate to.

Grade: B+

Edited May 5, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Nye 1,652]

It took me a bit to figure out that the problem wasn’t what they thought.

Pretty awesome seeing parents of anypony on he show. We’ve seen all the Mane 6, now we’ve seen all of the Mane 7.

I know many teenagers can probably relate to the feeling that’s Starlight and Sunburst have when their parents smother them.

Overall, this is one of my favorite episodes so far this season!  

To the people who are disappointed to not find out Starlight’s Cutie Mark origin, my opinion would be that she got her Cutie Mark for a special talent (manipulation of Cutie Marks.) 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Nye
Added Cutie Mark “response”

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

37 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

So then there's the final question how DID Starlight end up where she is with a father like Firelight? An overprotective, caring, supportive, and not in anyway believed to be neglectful father, but does that mean he was always like this...he was always there?

The big question surrounding Starlight’s childhood is always ”why.” Why didn’t anyone notice something was wrong with this little girl and get her the help she needed? Well, this episode suggests that Firelight did notice she was having a rough time growing up, but his attempt to help her failed, in fact they may have ended up making things worse. Notice just how trapped in her past Starlight seems to be, like we saw in Uncommon Bond?

Compare that to how Twilight reached out to Starlight. Firelight coddled Starlight, he treated her like a kid and only focused on making her feel safe. Twilight confronted her on her beliefs, she called them ridiculous, and told her the harsh truth, that sometimes things happen that we can’t control, and that real friendship is working through those tough times, not trying to create a fantasy land where we can avoid all pain forever. And being confronted like that is something that Starlight needed to be told.

I have more to say on this, but I want to get my thoughts together, so have this instead:

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by ShootingStar159

[Thrond 3,257]

I did not like this at all. The parent characters felt very irritating and one-note to me, and I found the majority of jokes here unfunny. The moral is okay, but this is yet another episode which can't shut up about the broad strokes of the moral but leaves all the interesting nuance to a few lines of dialogue at the very end. Point by point:

• Why bother with the red herring of the parents' conflict over the town if you're just gonna rush through it? It's obvious from the start that the main problem here is Starlight and Sunburst's relationship with their parents, so if you're not gonna do anything interesting with the conflict between the parents, why bother?
• Is it just for the obvious metaphor? This episode just can't stop pointing out that, yes, these parent characters' approaches to the town directly reflect how they approach their children. I understood that very early, but it never built anywhere. It just kept being reiterated through unfunny diversions, and I found that incredibly irritating. It's not even a good metaphor, because tying everything these two characters do to these specific character traits makes them overly simplistic, and it's unsubtle to the point of feeling forced. I get it, show. Give me something else. 
• There are a couple good jokes here. The gate is funny, Sunburst being oblivious to the mailman is funny, Starlight's old room is funny. Everything else is either incredibly repetitive or obnoxiously exaggerated. Really? Hard ancient bread? That's so forced.
• Compounding that problem is that Firelight and Stellar Flare are pretty unfunny themselves, and are depicted here as very one-note. Way too many of the jokes come back to these parents being overbearing in very specific, repetitive ways, and I think the show would have to work way harder than it does here to make that endless, simplistic repetition funny. Clearly there's more depth to their concerns, but we don't get any of that until the very end. "Show, don't tell" applies to this as well, and I'm out of patience for the show pulling this trick. It just feels lazy now. 
• And I don't care if we're seeing this from Starlight and Sunburst's perspective. If you want me to laugh at this, and some of the goofy setups here are obviously jokes, then you're creating distance from the characters, in which case I expect you to show me more of the picture than the main characters. You can only improve your story by adding nuance. 
• And as I said, the main conflict here is painfully obvious, so watching Starlight and Sunburst take forever to realize it seriously tested my patience. Having other characters already know the problem before those two just adds insult to injury; does the crew think it's inherently funny to be two steps ahead of characters? It's not! It's really annoying, especially when I believe the main characters should have realized this ages ago. Get to the point, show!
• Starlight and Sunburst are perfectly fine characters in this, but this kind of story, where they're constantly annoyed and grumpy, is a really bad vehicle for showing off their most entertaining qualities. They just sort of complain and mope the whole time, and their dialogue isn't nearly as witty as it would need to be to overcome that. Even in episodes I like, I find this structure deeply limiting, and there's only so much fun you can put in when your characters are limited to one or two emotions. 
• Given what this episode implies about Staright's past, I'm not sure I understand how she became so messed up anymore. That elephant in the room is not even briefly addressed, and Josh Haber's "latchkey kid" theory doesn't seem to fit Firelight's personality, or the implication that she left him and not the other way around. Right now this seems to me like the most significant retcon the series has yet offered. 
• Finally, I'm sorry, I do need to complain about the Cutie Map again, because they keep bringing up all the stuff which frustrates me about it. So Sunburst is the first person outside of Ponyville to be summoned? Why is this? How does the map decide which problems to solve, and who should solve them? It doesn't feel mysterious to me, it feels artificial and arbitrary. It just happens to tell the stories that the writers want at this time, and absolutely no others ever. I'm begging for even the slightest bit of actual explanation. 

Score:
Entertainment: 2/10
Characters: 3/10
Themes: 6/10
Story: 2/10
Overall: 35/100

[Batbrony 15,994]

2 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Just like we saw Rainbow’s dad in the Equestria Games flashback... oh wait. It was just someone we assumed was Sunburst’s father, it could have been an uncle, or even someone who just looked like him.

Hence why I specifically used the word 'seems' in my original post, you know, the verb that specifically means "to give the impression or sensation of being something or having a particular quality," and whose synonyms include 'imply,' 'suggest,' and 'insinuate'? 

Obviously until the show ever decides to specifically address it we have no idea if that stallion was his actual father or someone else, but my original point was that we have, as of right now, more evidence of a father/father-figure in Sunburst's life at some point than we do to date a mother in Starlight's.  The fact that Sunburst has always had a far less dramatic backstory than Starlight in general and took a far more mundane path in his own life up until Starlight returned as a presence in his life somewhat supports the possibility that Starlight might have had this added misfortune as well, as she clearly had a boatload of insecurities growing up that led her down the dark and extreme path she herself took.  I doubt losing her only friend alone was the sole contributing factor, and added isolation from the lack of a mother and having a father who, although well-meaning, as she got older she felt overly-coddled by, could certainly have contributed to her descent into darkness as well.  None of this is obviously fact, but it is fun to hypothesize and speculate based on what little evidence we have, and we certainly now know a bit more about both Starlight and Sunburst's parents and childhood after today's episode than we did before.

[Thrond 3,257]

To clarify: Even Firelight's coddling felt to me like it should have assisted with Starlight being able to move on from Sunburst, and the episode never implies that he was anything worse than that, whereas Starlight's previously warped sense of right and wrong, and severe inability to consider the consequences of her actions, struck me as something which would only really be reinforced by continued isolation for a significant period of time. I'm not sure I find it plausible that she could turn out the way she did if she grew up in an ostensibly loving and supportive environment, even with as clearly out-of-touch as Firelight became. I preferred when I could fill in the blanks myself. 

[YoshiAngemon 223]

4 hours ago, SwitchGuy2018 said:

“Why couldn’t we been sent to stop a war”. It’s official. Starlight said the funniest line in the episode.

Maybe because that sort of thing is strictly meant for two types of people: The Mane Six (Friendship) and Prince Blueblood (Diplomacy).

I had to watch the episode BEFORE it aired today, just to go to Free Comic Book Day with my sister and nephews. While my initial intention was to support Jen Hernandez's work by buying IDW Sonic #3, they didn't have that or the other two before #4, I chose to buy MLP: Friends Forever #26 with Shining Armor and, you guessed it, Prince Blueblood! You know what I want to have Jen draw for me on DeviantART? An image of Jade the Cat (one of her OCs who are seen in the IDW Sonic Issue #3), about to punch Prince Blueblood for what he said about Shadow the Hedgehog (echoing something Daimando said to me about such a thing), only she has Shadow holding her shirt (like saying "hold my clothes, Shadow"), while she beats the guy up, while wearing only her shoes and gloves! Maybe she should work on a FCBD One-Shot next year involving Sonic and Rainbow Dash in a friendly race across Equestria.

As for my thoughts on the episode, I didn't mind it. But the inner-frustrated soul in me just wanted to see Starlight manifest her anger into magic to outright tell the parents that THEY are the Friendship Problem, but only one thing comes to mind: Goofy's relationship with Max from "A Goofy Movie" and "An Extremely Goofy Movie." The struggling relationship of a parent and child is always most daunting, but can work wonders once it is surpassed.

Edited May 5, 2018 by YoshiAngemon

[Oleks 1,983]

Well, to me this episode was the most relatable one in a while. Starlight’s and Sunburst’s parents really remind me of my own mom and dad (although the characters are reversed and not that extreme), and I don’t visit my home town often due to similar reasons. The “plot twist” was very predictable, but it didn’t spoil the enjoyment for me. And I liked the minor characters’ designs too.

Also, STARLIGHT’S ROOM IS AWESOME.

Spoiler

 

This faic though.

 

 

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

Fantastic episode, probably my favorite of the season so far. Sunburst and Starlight work so well together, I would really enjoy seeing them together in more episodes along with just having Sunburst in general more a part of the main cast..

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

I love seeing relatable episodes like this that make me marvel at how deep this pony show can get. Not so much to Starlight's dad with the babying I relate to, but definitely to Sunburst's mom, as I did have many endeavors with my parents trying to get me to "have a plan" while not understanding the context of my situation. It was painfully obvious, especially after what we saw in Parental Glideance, however, how their conflict with their parents would play out. They should've brought Spike in to mix things up, don't know why he never appeared in the episode again after the opening. Oh well, I still can't wait for the fanfics about Starlight's emo phase. Stunned they were able to model her room like that, love that we now know that she's both a former Communist and a former Satanist.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,272]

One of the best episodes of the season in my book. Far better than last week. The conflict here actually felt natural and realistic. Once again the facial expressions are stellar with some good quick humor, like Starlight's room, that was hilarious. The ending wraps everything up nicely with a perfect resolution, though one that hit a bit close to home. Much like Sunburst, I have no real plan for my life but unlike Sunburst, I am not a talented individual so...I don't know what I'll do. That little thought took me out of it for a bit but the episode is still damn good. Frustrated Sunburst is cute Sunburst.

[Ganondox 899]

The ending was really sweet. Sometimes you forget that some of the main characters did not have happy pasts, and for better or worse our failures shape us as much as our successes do. But their parents never gave up on them, no matter what their children did. The rest of the episode was kinda awkward, but it was all worth it just for the one moment. 

[ImpctR 155]

Well... when I looked at the title I thought this is MAMA Map. (that there is some bigger map or the map expands or something). Of course it could be about parents. So now even more can get summoned, like outside Ponyville - strange but has potential for something interesting if made well in the future. So, this episode shows Starlight's and Sunburst's dad and mother respectively. Okay, I did not say it was anything I was interested about and the episode did not have much interesting things to intrigue, so I give it a 3/5. Written by the same who wrote 'Flutter Bruter' I must say Rainbow's and Fluttershy's parents episodes were more interesting, though they had to show that these two also have parents I suppose, although their other half is unknown.

I cannot say much about it, good to see Crystal Empire (as if we saw much), one of the biggest questions is how their parents made no reference and are completely unaware of SG's doing. It would be tiresome to talk about it but I suppose they had no idea about Starlight's things done at her village. And again, the village ... is that the same village, was it called Sire's Hollow? I couldn't recognized it, nothing looked like it and the one thing they showed 'did not change' that castle-lookalike library was not in the Cutie-Remap. Then it would make no sense to be unaware of Starlight's = marks, I know the others were already alright with SG but their parents never mentioned it but that's alright, I know it's already forgiven and forgotten, assuming they got in contact with their parents after the events and it was already talked about.

So with not being an MLP nerd to nitpick to the smallest detail, I just call it 'some episode that shows some of Sunburst's and Starlight's family' nothing more or less. I dont care if the conflict was good or not, it was kind of mundane and not interesting. Until the end when they all got in good relations, I didn't understand if the two parents were pretending to be at friendship so they wanted them to stay for longer or not, either way, like I said, the Mane 6 parent episodes were way better. There was not even comedy that Maud Couple at least offered to some extent, so eh. Ok next.

 

EDIT: One thing:

Usually evil people have tough family, funny how dads are always portrayed as soft and effeminate. One would expect she must have had someone like Granpa Gruff if not someone actually being bad.

Edited May 5, 2018 by ImpctR