S08:E09 - Non-Compete Clause

[DonMaguz 1,023]

1 hour ago, CloudMistDragon said:

don't you think that it would be boring if AJ and Dash were completely above any sort of petty behavior whatsoever?

There's a difference between 'completely above petty behaviour' and completely ignoring their responsibilities as the grown up leaders of the group.

Dash has had her share of regressions before and this one is not her worse, but AJ... she's supposed to be 'The most reliable pony in Ponyville' from day one. There's no excuse for her characterization in this episode.

[Misty Shadow 7,846]

But we knew Yona wasn't going to die. I rewatched the part of the episode where "they were going to let her drown" and I saw them showing honest concern before Ocellus and Silver Stream immediately jumped in to save her and were happy when she was rescued. And they were not "ignoring their responsibilities". They were just fulfilling their responsibilities the wrong way. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by CloudMistDragon

[Dark Qiviut 22,382]

5 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

But we knew Yona wasn't going to die.

Dash and AJ put her in such danger by being really reckless and selfish in an environment where Yona is incredibly vulnerable. Had they acted like teachers, Yona wouldn't be in peril in the first place.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

1 hour ago, VG_Addict said:

Haber hasn't improved as a story editor despite getting more experience as one when he worked for Skylanders.

If anything, he's gotten worse. 

I wouldn't say that. Season 6 at this point already had more duds than season 8 has so far.
He is such an excellent writer to me but yeah as a story editor he hasn't improved much. 

[Misty Shadow 7,846]

But again, the whole show involves ponies like AJ and Dash doing really reckless things that involve others in peril. That's a large part of the show's humor, you may as well bring up Dash wanting to send the students down a path where carnivorous fish could have bitten them and it would just go back to the same point. The reason it's amusing is because of cartoon invulnerability, you know no one's actually going to get hurt. I'm not at all mad, this is just my opinion I'm trying to offer. It would be boring if everyone had the same views on this episode and no one was defending it at all.

[Dark Qiviut 22,382]

15 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

But again, the whole show involves ponies like AJ and Dash doing really reckless things that involve others in peril.

Not true. For example, when Dash and AJ were heated rivals in FWF, the stakes were far lower and very down to earth. Rainbow Falls's stakes were lower than this one. Here in NCC, the stakes were increased twice, because someone's life was in big danger.

15 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

The reason it's amusing is because of cartoon invulnerability, you know no one's actually going to get hurt.

Us knowing they'll be okay doesn't matter; they don't know it, and the episode treats both matters seriously. Because AJ and Dash are teachers, they're responsible to teach the Student Six the Magic of Friendship and keep them safe from harm. Instead, they behaved incompetently just for the story to make the Student Six look better and almost got one of them killed. Their behavior and actions are completely indefensible.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Megas 27,569]

34 minutes ago, RyanMahaffe said:

I wouldn't say that. Season 6 at this point already had more duds than season 8 has so far.
He is such an excellent writer to me but yeah as a story editor he hasn't improved much. 

It’s hard to hit the low points S6 had at this point like Newbie Dash, No Second Prances, or AJ’s Day Off. This one is pretty weak, though not to the level of ND or NSP... maybe ADO though. I’d be lying if I said the season wasn’t underwhelming so far, as even S6 had Gauntlet of Fire and Saddle Row at this point, and S8 hasn’t hit those high points yet despite having some solid episodes like Horse Play or Grannies Gone Wild, on top of suffering similar problems S6 had

[Ganondox 899]

I'm surprised at how negative the reception is, though I really shouldn't be as I really should know by now the the standard this forum uses to judge an episode being bad is if the mane cast act like idiots. Anyway, I just found it meh, it was a bit funny, but there just wasn't much too it. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,382]

51 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

I'm surprised at how negative the reception is, though I really shouldn't be as I really should know by now the the standard this forum uses to judge an episode being bad is if the mane cast act like idiots.

It's more than just them being idiots that earned NCC its well-deserved negative reception.

1. This episode rips off Fall Weather Friends, a much better and smarter episode than this one.
2. The intelligence of both Dash and AJ was reduced, and their growth absent, to contrivedly increase the conflict and make the Student Six look more competent by comparison. They were very OOC in this episode.
3. Again, a time and place for AJ and Dash to squabble. Disregarding the safety of their students to win a useless award isn't that time. Had they remained responsible, Yona wouldn't nearly drown, and thus Twilight wouldn't choose the remainder of the trip for her friends.
4. Even after Twilight chewed them out, they were still as disagreeable as ever, and it got so bad that Yona once took the lead for them.
5. After supposedly learning their lesson, the episode concludes with them arguing like children, heavily suggesting the lesson doesn't stick with them. As such, the story feels pointless.

NCC carries too much stupid and lazy to handle.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Ganondox 899]

3 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Dash and AJ put her in such danger by being really reckless and selfish in an environment where Yona is incredibly vulnerable. Had they acted like teachers, Yona wouldn't be in peril in the first place.

The reason her life was in danger was due to a fluke accident where her life vest was torn off, for once it wasn't actually their fault. Yes, that wouldn't have been an issue if they didn't crash the boat, which in this case was their fault, but realistically such an event would be expected in a canoe driven by novices. Those thing capsize really easily. So I can't actually blame them for this. Also, the point of the exchange wasn't that Yona nearly died because Rainbow Dash and Applejack suck, but that she was easily saved because the students could together to implement a solution. 

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

It's more than just them being idiots that earned NCC its well-deserved negative reception.

1. This episode rips off Fall Weather Friends, a much better and smarter episode than this one.
2. The intelligence of both Dash and AJ was reduced, and their growth absent, to contrivedly increase the conflict and make the Student Six look more competent by comparison. They were very OOC in this episode.
3. Again, a time and place for AJ and Dash to squabble. Disregarding the safety of their students to win a useless award isn't that time. Had they remained responsible, Yona wouldn't nearly drown, and thus Twilight wouldn't choose the remainder of the trip for her friends.
4. Even after Twilight chewed them out, they were still as disagreeable as ever, and it got so bad that Yona once took the lead for them.
5. After supposedly learning their lesson, the episode concludes with them arguing like children, heavily suggesting the lesson doesn't stick with them. As such, the story feels pointless.

NCC carries too much stupid and lazy to handle.

1. I've criticized this attitude many times, but in this case the similarity was actually lampshaded at the beginning. The similarity here was probably intentional, and I'm thinking it may be due to the shear amount of time that has passed since the beginning of the series, they might be recycling some ideas for the sake of their newer viewers. Anyway, there is some very important differences, namely Fall Weather Friends was about a race so they were *supposed* to be competitive, they just got carried to far, while here the theme was about teamwork and they were supposed to set an example. In FWF, they were deliberately sabotaging each other's efforts, here the issue was just that they weren't working together. The themes are quite different, it's just that *one* mechanic in the conflict is the same.

2. I really don't care, they still acted like Applejack and Rainbow Dash, just at their worst rather than at their best. This fandom's attitude toward's character growth and being OOC is ridiculous anyway for two reasons. One, it's unrealistic as it's simply not how people work, and two, it's just lame because overtime it removes any possibility for conflict and thus actually having an episode to watch. You also basically just confirmed it's my intuition about why it's disliked. 

3. See my last post as that's not quite what happened. This also falls under them being idiots. 

4. They were less disagreeable and more overly agreeable. When it comes to leadership and teamwork, it's an important distinction, which was the focus of the episode. The episode was only half done at that point, and they had other aspects of teamwork that needed to be explored, that was fine.  

5. The lesson WASN'T for them, it was for the students, so it wasn't pointless at all. It's subtle, but after watching this show for this long I could pick up on the sorts of hints given which made the intention clear. Just because they ended up being more competent than their teachers doesn't mean they didn't learn something from the experience. Here the show took a different approach to the moral then they usually do, which should be praised rather than condemned. It's kinda ironic, because people keep complaining about superficial similarities, but when a substantial difference in story telling occurs it's criticized. Anyway, that was the punchline that they end every episode on, you shouldn't take it too seriously. 

Yes, it was stupid. It was supposed to be stupid though, it's was the comic direction this episode took. It might not be a direction which is popular among the fanbase, but it's still an entirely valid approach. It works precisely because Applejack and Rainbow Dash should know better. It's not lazy, it's intentional irony. The episode wasn't great by any means, but it really wasn't as bad as it's made out to be either. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Ganondox

[Buttonmash1973 1,026]

deleted

Edited May 16, 2018 by Buttonmash1973

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

Thank Celestia this will be a short review.

I think I've figured out how it works: the writers write one or two episodes, then they get busy or lazy and let their 7-year old kids write one.  That's the only explanation.  That's the only explanation for how we can go from Horse Play to....well....this.

(Krusty really has the best reaction clips, doesn't he?  )

This was garbage.  When I read the description, I was afraid that this was what it was going to be.  I had hopes that they might find some creative, unexpected reason for them to fight, but instead, it was just the simplest, stupidest, most immature thing it could possibly be.  First they acted like 5-year olds, and then, they somehow managed the impossible in the second act by acting even stupider!  Okay, look, I'm not at all one of these folks who says that the ponies must always be perfect and never make a mistake.  Mistakes are fine, and even rehashing old lessons can be okay if they put a new spin on it.  I'm fine with imperfection, but what really gets under my skin is immaturity.  There's a big difference between making mistakes, making a bad call, screwing up, accidentally hurting somepony's feelings, etc, and gross immaturity.  I hate immaturity.  (I guess that's just a pet peeve of mine irl, too.)

At least Twilight was pretty cool.  Pretty badass headmare.  At least somepony has her head on straight.  And the student six were pretty good, buuuuut....

On 5/12/2018 at 11:02 AM, Whomps said:

If you have to drag established characters through the mud to make new characters look good, you’re just gonna make me hate the new characters more instead 

Exactly.  Exactly.

Uh, let's see...quick other notes:  I thought it was cool that Fluttershy is the most popular teacher.  I can totally see her being a great teacher.  And the school has been operating for nine months already!??  Lotta time flew by, there.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Justin_Case001

[RDDash 19,169]

17 hours ago, DonMaguz said:

There's a difference between 'completely above petty behaviour' and completely ignoring their responsibilities as the grown up leaders of the group.

Dash has had her share of regressions before and this one is not her worse, but AJ... she's supposed to be 'The most reliable pony in Ponyville' from day one. There's no excuse for her characterization in this episode.

Applejack was actually pretty reasonable in this episode, the problem was, Rainbow Dash almost ruined everything half the time.

Let's go built a chicken coop. What does Rainbow does? She drops the whole roof on the children's heads because she felt inpatient and bored.

Canoe racing? Why not just go and jump into the lake full of piranhas and then let children drawn because they can't swim.

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by R.D.Dash

[Brainstorm 4,107]

I know AJ and RainbowDash got carried away during the field trip, but, at least the students did learn something about teamwork, and we got to see SilverStream and Ocellus turn into sea ponies.

I wonder if Silverstream and Terramar have flying and swimming contests back home to swim or fly the fastest, just for fun.

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

I saw just the first bit of the episode and just tossed it aside like "nope, skipping this one". I RARELY IF EVER SKIP AN EPISODE OF MLP.

While I was looking forward to seeing the Student Six again after noticing a slight spoiler on Google images, the mere fact that AJ and RD are being injected with Stupid Rivalry Syndrome due to inexperienced writers is something I cannot tolerate. If I wanna see the Student Six being awesome I'll wait for the finale (yes, I know they'll be in there with the CMC but no spoilers beyond that please). Now Fame and Misfortune reminded us that no one's flawless, and that mistakes are made. However, being obsessed with competition for an award because you got butthurt over your other friend (Fluttershy) winning it one too many times to the point of tossing logic and practicality aside AND PUTTING OTHERS IN DANGER AS A RESULT is a choice, not a "mistake". Sorry to be on the cruel side but if I was Twilight confronting AJ and RD:

 

No offense to new writers but let's face facts: having them try their episode writing luck on this season is starting to result in some low-grade episodes. I hope they can improve fast so S9 will be better.

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Shabb3r

[Brainstorm 4,107]

On 5/12/2018 at 12:40 PM, ggg-2 said:

This was an okay episode. Not great, not horrible, just.....okay. Breakup Breakdown is next. ......Oh god, shoot me now.

I will agree it's not one of the best, but, it's not bad either,  but we got to see Ocellus and Silverstream turn into sea ponies, the students learn about teamwork, and RD and AJ learned as well about noncompeting with each other.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Brainstorm

[Thrond 3,263]

20 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

To be clear, this has nothing to do with our main cast still learning lessons, or even having to retread old ground. That’s still an important part of the show formula, and I don’t want that to change. But it shouldn’t be happening in episodes about the school or the students, or their is no point in introducing either of these concepts.

I truly feel a school is a good opportunity to put the old characters into new roles and have them learn lessons they might not have learned elsewhere, so I don't agree that the school should just be there for the mane six to teach to others. But I certainly never wanted anything like what we've gotten here. 

19 hours ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Like Fake It til' You Make It, this is another episode I feel is getting too much hate just for characters acting in a way they felt was OOC. Both AJ and Dash have always been competitive. Was that trait exaggerated for this episode? Yes...but it's a cartoon. It's for comedic effect. Like, I get people thinking the running gag of them competing was growing tiring, but back to the point, don't you think that it would be boring if AJ and Dash were completely above any sort of petty behavior whatsoever?

They could engage in petty behaviour in a way which was actually creative and entertaining and not just bickering for 22 minutes. There is a middle ground between this and everyone acting perfect all the time. I would accept the "comedic effect" argument, except I find this episode incredibly boring. 

18 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

I wouldn't say that. Season 6 at this point already had more duds than season 8 has so far.
He is such an excellent writer to me but yeah as a story editor he hasn't improved much. 

On the contrary, by this point, I had loved some 75% of season 6, whereas in season 8 it's much closer to half. Cannot wait until he finally writes another episode, though; his season 6 run of episodes remains legendary in my mind. 

 

 

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

15 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Okay, look, I'm not at all one of these folks who says that the ponies must always be perfect and never make a mistake.  Mistakes are fine, and even rehashing old lessons can be okay if they put a new spin on it.  I'm fine with imperfection, but what really gets under my skin is immaturity.  There's a big difference between making mistakes, making a bad call, screwing up, accidentally hurting somepony's feelings, etc, and gross immaturity. 

^^ TRUTH

[Dark Qiviut 22,382]

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

The reason her life was in danger was due to a fluke accident where her life vest was torn off, for once it wasn't actually their fault.

It is very much their fault. Both Dash and AJ were so obsessed to win Teacher of the Month that they didn't look out for all of the dangers. Dash completely shooed off the threat of the bite-a-cudas and wanted to win some stupid speed record so badly that she ignored it. Neither of them watched their surroundings until it was too late.

And what was AJ's and Dash's first reaction following the crash? Bickering (and Dash moaning) about the record. Not one second did they ask if everyone was okay, like a responsible teacher. They didn't even notice her ripped life jacket until she was on the verge of drowning.

Had they been more observant, careful, and not bitch at each other, they would've had more time to react and not crash their canoe into the rocks in the first place.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

but in this case the similarity was actually lampshaded at the beginning.

Acknowledging FWF and their competitive behavior in the past doesn't give the story a pass.

A character being in character isn't entirely the what, but the why, too. AJ in Somepony to Watch Over Me was out of character for babying AB, because she had no real reason for it. But if she babied the CMCs in AMW, it would've been IC, because there was a supposed threat on the loose.

In FWF, neither AJ nor Dash were very close, and the episode built up the idea that they were letting competition go into their heads. Additionally, it was way back in S1, and the story told was small-scaled with little tension. But NCC takes place seven seasons later; both of them had a world of growth leading up to it, and they're much closer now. Today, they're not just teachers, but also ambassadors for communities beyond Equestria. They have more responsibilities now, so there's a time and place for them to compete, even in environments and stories designed to quell that urge. But rather than be responsible, they competed with each other to prove who's the better teacher and more worthy TotM candidate.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

they still acted like Applejack and Rainbow Dash

No, they didn't. If they were in character, they would've immediately understood how not to let their arguing get in between of teaching the students about friendship. Twilight calling them out for not being past their immaturity doesn't make the episode any better; it makes it worse. Why? Instead of fixing a major flaw in the episode, DHX left it in and rolled with it.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

One, it's unrealistic as it's simply not how people work

F&M used that same, broken argument last year with FS as its mouthpiece. Neither Dash nor Applejack are real people. They're fictional characters for a cartoon, and this one uses character development as a backbone for DHX to tell their stories. The audience expects the characters to not only learn their lessons, but stick with them, too. When they have to relearn a lesson, you waste the audience's time. Rather than using their growth to the episode's advantage, this FWF ripoff regresses them to where they behave worse than the students they're trying to teach. That's not why this show has stood around for 7.5 years now.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

They were less disagreeable and more overly agreeable.

The "we agree" façade poorly masked how disagreeable they remained after the lecture, but it was passive-aggressive and through asskissing. Neither of them agreed which path to take to leave the forest, who will walk through two twisted trees first (requiring a Yona headbutt them to get 'em through after they got stuck), or which type of bridge to construct. Even after Twilight threatened to take over the field trip, they still competed with one another.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

The lesson WASN'T for them

This piece of dialogue contradicts that claim:

Quote

Applejack: I hate to admit it, but—

[vines snapping]

Applejack: ...this whole mess is kinda our fault.

Rainbow Dash: Yeah. No trophy is worth getting eaten over.

Applejack: So what do ya say? You want to team up and get ourselves out of this here pickle barrel?

Rainbow Dash: I thought you'd never ask.

^ This exchange tells the audience they learned a lesson, too. But the episode concludes with them arguing and bickering like two-year-olds, telling the audience what they learned this whole time didn't stick.

When the audience sees the characters not learn their lesson, the episode turns into filler. Out of every episode in the show, this is only the second to have this treatment, The Cutie Pox being the first.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

Anyway, that was the punchline that they end every episode on, you shouldn't take it too seriously. 

We should take their final argument seriously. This show's supposed to educate children and uses the characters as a vessel. FIM wants the audience to listen to these lessons and use them, even in episodes designed to be silly and laid back; but if the characters don't care, why should your viewers? If neither AJ nor Dash bickered and forgot what caused the problems in the first place, then the episode and moral they learned while dangling for dear life would've carried some weight.

21 hours ago, Ganondox said:

Here the show took a different approach to the moral then they usually do, which should be praised rather than condemned.

NCC is reviled, because it earns it. Dash and AJ were out of character, imbecilic, incompetent, and completely unqualified just to make newer characters look better. They backed up one major reason why Neighsay shut it down, even though he's not here. There are ways to show that AJ and Dash should work together and not compete with each other without dialing back their maturity. If you're going to make the newer characters credible, don't dumb down existing characters. It's cheap and lazy storytelling.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[MalekPony 36]

21 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

It's more than just them being idiots that earned NCC its well-deserved negative reception.

1. This episode rips off Fall Weather Friends, a much better and smarter episode than this one.
2. The intelligence of both Dash and AJ was reduced, and their growth absent, to contrivedly increase the conflict and make the Student Six look more competent by comparison. They were very OOC in this episode.
3. Again, a time and place for AJ and Dash to squabble. Disregarding the safety of their students to win a useless award isn't that time. Had they remained responsible, Yona wouldn't nearly drown, and thus Twilight wouldn't choose the remainder of the trip for her friends.
4. Even after Twilight chewed them out, they were still as disagreeable as ever, and it got so bad that Yona once took the lead for them.
5. After supposedly learning their lesson, the episode concludes with them arguing like children, heavily suggesting the lesson doesn't stick with them. As such, the story feels pointless.

NCC carries too much stupid and lazy to handle.

Even though Rainbow Dash and Applejack acted OOC in this episode, that is never, and I mean NEVER an excuse for anyone to attack Kim Beyer-Johnson (the writer of NCC) over it at all, and there better NOT be any death threats sent to her over how bad this episode is because that behavior is childish, abusive and totally unacceptable.

[Ganondox 899]

5 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

It is very much their fault. Both Dash and AJ were so obsessed to win Teacher of the Month that they didn't look out for all of the dangers. Dash completely shooed off the threat of the bite-a-cudas and wanted to win some stupid speed record so badly that she ignored it. Neither of them watched their surroundings until it was too late.

And what was AJ's and Dash's first reaction following the crash? Bickering (and Dash moaning) about the record. Not one second did they ask if everyone was okay, like a responsible teacher. They didn't even notice her ripped life jacket until she was on the verge of drowning.

Had they been more observant, careful, and not bitch at each other, they would've had more time to react and not crash their canoe into the rocks in the first place.

Acknowledging FWF and their competitive behavior in the past doesn't give the story a pass.

A character being in character isn't entirely the what, but the why, too. AJ in Somepony to Watch Over Me was out of character for babying AB, because she had no real reason for it. But if she babied the CMCs in AMW, it would've been IC, because there was a supposed threat on the loose.

In FWF, neither AJ nor Dash were very close, and the episode built up the idea that they were letting competition go into their heads. Additionally, it was way back in S1, and the story told was small-scaled with little tension. But NCC takes place seven seasons later; both of them had a world of growth leading up to it, and they're much closer now. Today, they're not just teachers, but also ambassadors for communities beyond Equestria. They have more responsibilities now, so there's a time and place for them to compete, even in environments and stories designed to quell that urge. But rather than be responsible, they competed with each other to prove who's the better teacher and more worthy TotM candidate.

No, they didn't. If they were in character, they would've immediately understood how not to let their arguing get in between of teaching the students about friendship. Twilight calling them out for not being past their immaturity doesn't make the episode any better; it makes it worse. Why? Instead of fixing a major flaw in the episode, DHX left it in and rolled with it.

F&M used that same, broken argument last year with FS as its mouthpiece. Neither Dash nor Applejack are real people. They're fictional characters for a cartoon, and this one uses character development as a backbone for DHX to tell their stories. The audience expects the characters to not only learn their lessons, but stick with them, too. When they have to relearn a lesson, you waste the audience's time. Rather than using their growth to the episode's advantage, this FWF ripoff regresses them to where they behave worse than the students they're trying to teach. That's not why this show has stood around for 7.5 years now.

The "we agree" façade poorly masked how disagreeable they remained after the lecture, but it was passive-aggressive and through asskissing. Neither of them agreed which path to take to leave the forest, who will walk through two twisted trees first (requiring a Yona headbutt them to get 'em through after they got stuck), or which type of bridge to construct. Even after Twilight threatened to take over the field trip, they still competed with one another.

This piece of dialogue contradicts that claim:

^ This exchange tells the audience they learned a lesson, too. But the episode concludes with them arguing and bickering like two-year-olds, telling the audience what they learned this whole time didn't stick.

When the audience sees the characters not learn their lesson, the episode turns into filler. Out of every episode in the show, this is only the second to have this treatment, The Cutie Pox being the first.

We should take their final argument seriously. This show's supposed to educate children and uses the characters as a vessel. FIM wants the audience to listen to these lessons and use them, even in episodes designed to be silly and laid back; but if the characters don't care, why should your viewers? If neither AJ nor Dash bickered and forgot what caused the problems in the first place, then the episode and moral they learned while dangling for dear life would've carried some weight.

NCC is reviled, because it earns it. Dash and AJ were out of character, imbecilic, incompetent, and completely unqualified just to make newer characters look better. They backed up one major reason why Neighsay shut it down, even though he's not here. There are ways to show that AJ and Dash should work together and not compete with each other without dialing back their maturity. If you're going to make the newer characters credible, don't dumb down existing characters. It's cheap and lazy storytelling.

It wasn't the bite-cudas that was the problem though, it was a random stick. That doesn't excuse their reckless behavior, but they still technically weren't at fault there. As I stated previously, realistically canoe crashes are to be expected, the only reason they didn't crash earlier was due to how competent the students were (which based on the conclusion of the episode may partially been because RD and AJ were so incompetent). CloudMistDragon already pointed out the problem with the rest of your argument. 

Regarding FWF, you completely missed what I said. Nowhere did I imply them acknowledging it excused it, that was where I conceded to you. However, you completely which what actually excused it, which is that the situations are actually substantially different. They aren't acting like they did in FWF friends at all (as the problem there wasn't that they were merely being competitive), they just aren't cooperating in an effective manner. This was an explanation for why this occurred in context, which is was that the event was poorly planned as a result of their being no clear leader for the event due to them both volunteering and Twilight expecting them to work it out on their own, when they didn't. Their irresponsibility wasn't due to a lack of concern or planning, it was due to a lack of coordination. It's also worth noting that the cold open established an area for them to compete, namely Teacher of the Month, as well establishing that leading the camp would give them leverage in that competition. The irony was just that for them to get a competitive lead there it would have been better for them to cooperate with each other, which they did end up doing later, just very poorly. You're putting too much emphasis on OUR familiarity with the characters, and not enough on the present circumstance. Excusing similar behavior due to it being S1 is just a bad approach to episodic writing, especially for a series as long a this one is. 

Nope, they acted Rainbow Dash and Applejack, experience has shown they are capable of being quite petty and aren't always competent, and they demonstrated countless other core personality traits like honesty and competitiveness that are much more established than what you focused. Meanwhile, nothing has been established that they would know the best way to act in this specific situation in order to set up the best situation for their students.  People don't act in such a predicable manner, you can't just say what someone is going to do in arbitrary situation based on your understanding of their personality. People and the world are just too complex. It's worth noting that if they were acting independently, either activity would have been a great team building activity, the problem was that there was no system established to resolve the power struggle between Applejack and Rainbow Dash, and thus they failed to act as a team. Applejack and Rainbow Dash can be great team players, but in their teams there was clearly established systems, with written rules and established hierarchies. Also, it's much harder to resolve this sorts of situations when you're part of it rather than looking in from the outside and the problem is obvious, and it takes more to resolve them than just good intentions. Yeah, they were still given the idiot ball, but the idiot ball isn't inherently bad. As I said, they were definitely acting like Rainbow Dash and Applejack, just at their worst. Just because they didn't act in the way you wanted them to doesn't mean they were OOC. Finally, requiring the characters be so rigid defeats the point of the writer. The writer selects responses from a range of possible so that the story will work, if you want to create a thematically consistent story you need to work towards the end by algebraically selecting traits and choices so you end up there. If you work forward in a mechanical manner with set reactions according to arbitrary rules you always end up with an pointless mess. In the process, the writer must work from their own subjective notion of who the character is. You're acting like your conception of the characters trumps that of the writer. What makes you a better expert on who the characters are and what they may or may not do? If the end was so blatantly out of character, they wouldn't have written it in the first place. 

Fame and Misfortune was absolutely right, your argument is the broken one. The actual difference between people and characters is details are trimmed in order to focus just on what is important to the theme, and *sometimes* realism is sacrificed for the sake of the theme. The distinction between people and characters makes no difference as far as character development is concerned as it depends on what sort of message you want to send through the character development. Sending the message that people take time to change is perfectly valid. It's worth noting "babysteps" was explicitly a moral LONG before Fame and Misfortune, there is really no excuse to treating their attitude towards Fluttershy as just being an excuse. Meanwhile, *your* exceptions about character development doesn't work with this type of series. Each episode is written independently, so the theme of the episode is for the episode, not the series as a whole. Sure, the series itself has some themes, and there is a usually a theme for each season, but character development is not one of them. In order to maintain such strict progression, they would have to have significant oversight, and the show simply has two many different, changing writers with too many episodes to do that. Finally, not only is it not feasible, but it's also just not a good idea for this type of series. For one, it would leave them with having no room to create new episodes as with the way your treat it, there would be no new morals left to learn (as stated previously, it's not even the same moral, they did in fact learn their lesson from last time). Let's look at the actual target audience. It's not analytical bronies who obsess over every detail, it's children. The show has been around longer than there is years in the target age span. Most the people watching the series now started after the series was already well underway, it makes no sense to insist that something happened before they joined in can only happen then. They're not going to know what you're complaining about, so you're just denying them that experience. Most importantly, the series would just be BORING if the characters just got better at the rapid pace you're expecting. The conflict in the series is based around interpersonal relationship issues, if you make it so the characters never have interpersonal struggles, then there is no conflict, and thus no plot. Insisting the characters be boring by removing all their flaws is not good writing. Anyway, it's an episodic slice-of-life series meant to entertain as well as deliver a moral each episode, not build up to some specific climax 9 seasons later were the pacing is done as needed for the stories sake. 

It wasn't passive aggressiveness through asskissing, it was this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverlyPolitePals?from=Main.AlphonseAndGastonRoutine Aside from the fact it's a classic comedy trope, there is a few other reasons I've come to that conclusion. First, immediately before, Rainbow Dash and Applejack successfully worked together in order to save both their asses from Twilight. They were just continuing that tactic, but in a situation where it no longer worked. Second, the theme of the episode was teamwork, not just not competing, and this showed a different manner of failure of leadership, where no one is leading rather there being a conflict between leaders. The problem was resolved by someone just getting fed-up on the non-progress and taking charge, reinforcing that idea. Finally, while they were trying to be overly polite for the sake of getting a competitive edge, the point wasn't to hurt the other, it was to get them more grammy points from their students.  

That bit of dialogue wasn't part of the ending, that was part of the climax. Sure, they came to that conclusion, but who saved them? The students. And who speaks the moral during the resolution? The students. And they did learn their lesson, because they were no longer in mortal peril at the end of the episode.  Characters can have their moments of clarity, but still be subject to their flaws. Next, the audience doesn't NEED to see a certain set of characters literally learn the lesson in order to learn it themselves. They can see the consequences of their actions. What Applejack and Dash did led to them nearly getting eaten, what the students did saved their lives. Then the moral still got explicitly stated at the end anyway, so that element is still there. It's not like this is the only episode to end on such a note either; Swarm of the Century, The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000, and Fame and Misfortune come to mind as having similar elements. 

Ah yes, the old "people agree with me so they are right". Sorry, you already presented your arguments, and I already dismissed them. Restating your same points adds absolutely nothing. You can dislike it for any reason you want, but I don't care as I don't adhere to your standards. All you've done is confirm for me my intuitions about why it's negatively received here by repeating the same arguments I've heard a million times for other episodes, which I summarize as saying you guys don't like it when the main cast act like idiots. You aren't wrong to dislike it, so you don't need to justify it. The episode not meeting your standards doesn't make it bad, it just means it's not for you. Children for one find it hilarious when adults act like idiots, and that's who is was actually made for. It's worth nothing that I've found the reception in the comments on MLP Wiki to be significantly more positive than here, and the poll results here have also mellowed out a lot since last time I checked. I'm personally apathetic towards it, so I'm kind sick of defending it at this point. The irony is the point you were responding to was just about a specific aspect of the episode, not it as a whole, but you completely missed that. 

PS: I have to say, from a game theory standpoint the dynamics of this episode are fairly interesting. There the dichotomy between the zero-sum game of teacher of the month and the co-operative game of "not dying" which they are simultaneously involved in, but it turns out that co-operating would have actually helped them in the zero-sum game because they have three other competitors who were not involved in the field trip, well, at least if it would have worked that way if wasn't for the ending. 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Ganondox

[The Blueberry Writer 278]

I thought it was ok, shockingly this episode and the one with Starlights Mom, before I saw them, I thought would have been the best we could see so far, but they turned out to be my least fav.  I feel like this episode could have worked if Dashie and AJ had competed differently with each-other, this is off the top of my head, so I am not sure how exactly I would have changed their interactions.  I think the worst part was the bridge part, that needed to be removed from the story.  AJ and Dashie are smart enough to not have done what happened at the end, and I think it's kinda cheesy the class didn't understand that this wasn't all a training exercise.

 

[Toastypk 923]

I just watched it, pretty fun. Love the students' interactions, and I love the relationship that AJ and RD have, that hasn't been touched on since the start of the show.

Though when I look at the reviews, it's... pretty lopsided. o_O

I mean,  I like everyone's interactions, the teamworking happening on the side instead of direct, the seapony scene, and I adore AJ and RD a bunch. Though it seems people didn't like it.

I guess I'm incapable of truely disliking any episode... unless you have one where the mane 6 are staring at a wall for 30 minutes I guess?

Edited May 18, 2018 by Toastypk

[DuskUnicorn 10]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:56 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

And the school has been operating for nine months already!??  Lotta time flew by, there.

Yeah that was my big take-away for this episode.  Time can really flow strangely in this show.  We can go multiple seasons with less than a year going by (from S2 May the Best Pet Win when Dash first meets Tank and makes him her pet, to S5 Tanks for the Memories, when he has his first winter and needs to hibernate).  Then we have something like this, where within a couple of episodes at least 3/4s of a year has gone by.  Of course here it was for the visual gag and setting up the reason for the competitiveness.  If it wasn't for that I suspect the writers wouldn't have wanted to imply so much time passing.

[Singe 2,111]

An episode that reaffirms some of Chancellor Neighsay points. There's also another issue of AJ's activity is soliciting free labor from her students to build a shed her farm was going to use.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Singe