S08:E19 - Road to Friendship

[O-78 28,605]

Man, the second half of season 8 is turning out to be awesome! This episode had so many great StarTrix moments and I totally ship them!

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Well, I went into this episode thinking that there would be a good chance that I would hate it, and as it turns out, I don't think I hate it like I believed that I might, but I still didn't like it, either. This looks to be another episode for which I'll be an odd man out in not liking it while almost everyone else likes or loves it. One particular aspect of this episode that most people seem to be praising and raving about is Starlight's and Trixie's purported great chemistry, which is something that I'm just not seeing, and it's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly why not. As I try to explain below, one reason for that may be that the frequently-stated cliches and superlatives about their friendship actually serve to make the idea that they're close friends less believable. Furthermore, Hoo'Far's repeated appearances and actions throughout the episode are just bewildering to me, and I didn't find Starlight's and Trixie's escalating arguments and sniping at each other to be very entertaining. I will grant, though, that some of Starlight's and Trixie's conflicts in this episode are more believable, are at least somewhat out of their control, and may not necessarily have had any good solutions, such that cutting the trip short and going home, as Starlight and Trixie do by the end of the episode, might have been the best solution under the circumstances. It seems like an implied lesson here, as with several other episodes, is to plan these activities better before doing them.

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First, one of the aspects of this episode that I think might work against the idea that Starlight and Trixie have great chemistry is that Starlight and Trixie, and even other characters, repeatedly praise Starlight's and Trixie's friendship using flowery but vacuous platitudes and superlatives, while not giving any specifics to back those up. This might be especially demonstrated in the song, which feels particularly contrived and inane. Rather than all of this convincing me that Starlight's and Trixie's friendship must be as great as everyone is saying that it is, it comes across to me as being fake and forced. It seems to me that true friends wouldn't feel the need to frequently praise each other and their friendship and the things that they do together in that way. Rather, I would think that true friends would be real with each other. It would already be understood that they're good friends, and consequently, they could just hang out and talk freely and do things together. When they repeatedly use cliche superlatives to describe each other and their activities, without mentioning any specifics that might confirm that, it comes across like they're still not really comfortable in their friendship and haven't actually done that much together, and therefore, that they still feel the need to affirm with themselves, each other, and everyone else that yes, they really are good friends, they really will enjoy and handle well the activities they choose to do together, etc. This could perhaps be compared to how Trixie declares herself to be "The Great And Powerful Trixie". Does her doing that convince us that she really is great and powerful, or does it come across as a facade to try to hide her feelings of inadequacy and insecurity?

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Next, Hoo'Far's repeated appearances and actions throughout this episode are just bewildering to me. What are his motivations? Why is he so intent on trading his wagon for Trixie's, to the point of doing the trade with Starlight and without Trixie's knowledge or consent? Why does he seem to keep following Starlight and Trixie without explicitly joining them? Is he supposed to be a kind of creepy Trixie superfan who just really wants to own things that belonged to her, because she's a "celebrity"? Is he supposed to be a disingenuous con artist who just wants to trade Trixie for her stuff, so that he can make a killing selling it or something? Is he supposed to be a purely altruistic character who just loves Trixie and wants to help her to perform in Saddle Arabia however he can? Or is he nothing more than a means to drive the plot whenever necessary?

Later, when Trixie is upset and happens upon Hoo'Far and her wagon which he just acquired, and lies down in front of the wagon, Hoo'Far seemingly makes no attempt to sympathize with her or understand why she's upset, and doesn't take any positive action to help resolve the situation. However, he also doesn't just go around her and try to leave her behind or ignore her. He essentially just trolls Trixie and says that he'll wait her out. So why is he doing that? Does he really want to rub it in Trixie's face that he "outsmarted" her and her opposition to trading her wagon? Is he trying to force Trixie's consent to his trade? Is he trying to make some point and just being totally cryptic about it?

And finally, why is Hoo'Far only willing to reverse the trade if Starlight and Trixie "prove" their friendship to him? Why has this turned into a "test" of Starlight's and Trixie's friendship? Is this also just for Hoo'Far's demented amusement? Is Hoo'Far supposed to have been planning from the beginning of the episode to "test" their friendship, with all of his actions throughout the episode being done to that end? That would just seem unbelievably contrived. And also, what, is he a second Discord, taking it upon himself to "test" friendships whenever he sees fit?

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Now here are some other larger observations about the conflicts that Starlight and Trixie had in the episode.

When Starlight and Trixie arrive at the marketplace, Trixie mentions that "life on the road requires very specific supplies, and we only have so many bits, so we'll have to spend them wisely", but this is apparently the first time that Trixie has brought this up, and of course, it's too late, as Starlight has already blown the budget on street food. So I guess we're to assume that neither of them thought to ask about or bring up or wonder about how the expenses of the trip would be paid for. (I remember Twilight advising Rainbow and Pinkie to "always carry plenty of bits" on their trip to Griffinstone in "The Lost Treasure of Griffinstone", with Pinkie running out of bits, but other than that, I don't recall episodes involving trips for Cutie Map missions or whatnot ever bringing up travel expenses or how they're paid for; go figure.) Did Starlight bring any of her own money along, whether for emergencies or for buying things that she might personally want?  Did Starlight just assume that Trixie would be covering the expenses, because Trixie was the one who came up with the idea and invited Starlight along? Was Starlight thinking that Trixie's covering the expenses of the trip would be Starlight's "payment" for agreeing to travel and perform as Trixie's assistant?

This also brings up another issue. Starlight told Trixie before the trip started not to worry about the cramped sleeping quarters in the wagon, because "there's plenty of high-quality inns to stay at on the way". However, neither of them asks about or brings up potential issues with paying for this plan, when presumably, staying at "high-quality inns" along the way would cost a fair number of bits. And if they didn't end up staying at an inn, then wouldn't they have that much extra money to spend on food or whatnot? So did they even have the money to stay at an inn in the first place? If not, then why didn't Trixie say that they might not have the budget to be staying at high-quality inns when Starlight first brought that idea up? Did the two of them each assume that the other would be paying for it, without asking about it or confirming it with each other? Furthermore, if they didn't actually have the money to stay at an inn, did they ever realize that as they were going around asking for a room at all of these inns? Did they ever double-check that they had the money for a room prior to asking for one? Or did all of these inns have some system whereby guests can stay in a room and just be billed later, without even checking guests' ability to pay before letting them stay?

Trixie also angrily tells Starlight that she might have thought to make a reservation. But then that just makes me wonder how reservations to far-away hotels (or whatever), particularly on short notice, would work, given the technology level of Equestria. If hotels can't be called or wired to ask about or make reservations, then how would that be done? Would potential customers and hotels have to send snail mail letters back and forth, inquiring about making reservations, stating which rooms and days are available, requesting reservations, and finally confirming them? I can see how that system might not work on short notice, although I don't know if there's any particular reason that Trixie's Saddle Arabian tour couldn't be delayed in order to make these reservations. Did Trixie somehow already communicate and commit to particular dates, times, and locations for performances on this tour? I also wondered whether Starlight could teleport to these far-away inns on the route and ask about reservations in person before then teleporting back, but that might not be feasible with the distances being covered.

To mention a couple of other things, first, the snoring and sleep-talking might well have been problems even if the two of them were staying in a room at an inn, unless perhaps they got separate rooms, which would be even more expensive when they're supposed to be on a tight budget. I was also thinking that maybe Starlight and Trixie could temporarily move some stuff outside while sleeping, or that one of them could sleep outside, and on the second night, that's kind of what they ended up doing. But, if the two of them are just staying in some random and strange place, they might have thought that leaving some of their belongings outside might have led to them being stolen or damaged. And they also might not have felt safe sleeping outside with unknown wild animals and potentially malicious passers-by.

I also feel obligated to mention that Starlight trades away Trixie's property - essentially her house - without her consent, and when Trixie rightfully and distraughtly asks who said Starlight could do that, Starlight nonchalantly says "Nopony. I just did it", seemingly not even realizing that she might have something wrong. It seems that this is another case of Starlight's failing to respect boundaries of property or person, and of Starlight's previously-seen inclination to act first and ask questions later, after the damage has been done. In this case, Starlight does take it upon herself to apologize, and even states a reason why what she did was wrong - i.e., "I should never have traded away the wagon. It wasn't mine to trade. It belongs to my friend". But I'm more or less resigned to this kind of thing just being what Starlight periodically does and is expected to do, and I don't ultimately expect her to change much on this front.

When Trixie runs into Hoo'Far and her wagon, and Hoo'Far says that he thinks that the wagon trade was perfectly honest and fair, Trixie exclaims "Unfortunately, it is more nuanced than that!", and rather than giving any further explanation, lies down in front of his wagon in protest. Why doesn't Trixie just say "This wagon was my property, and it was traded to you without my consent"? That seems like a pretty simple and compelling argument. She could also add that "I want to find Starlight and your original wagon and reverse the trade", which would at least be more productive than lying down on the ground. I don't know what, in Trixie's mind, that was supposed to accomplish.

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Finally, here's the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

Flurry Heart's gasping and covering her face with her wings is cute and all, but also confirms that she continues to act more precocious than she might look, or than the label of "baby" would suggest.

In a world where Trixie and/or Starlight (who's probably one of the most powerful unicorns in Equestria) have access to unicorn magic and teleportation, I'm not sure that this trick (and perhaps the whole routine) they do would be very impressive or suspenseful. If Starlight and Trixie both had magic disabling spells put on them first, such as were used in "Equestria Games", maybe then the performance would be a little more impressive.

Trixie reveals that "our volunteer" Granny Smith was in the locked trunk, and then Granny Smith annoyedly says "You shoulda oughta tell a pony before ya go a-poofin' 'em around the stage!". So did Granny Smith actually volunteer to participate in the trick? Was she misled, or not informed, about what the trick would entail? Starlight and Trixie certainly don't seem concerned.

When Trixie says that "The Terrifying Trunk Escape does require a grrrreat and powerful assistant", does that mean that Starlight is "required" just to increase the theatrics and distract the audience, or is Starlight required because she's actually teleporting Trixie out of the locked trunk?

When Cadance and Twilight are doing the friendship chant, Flurry Heart starts to look worried for a couple of seconds. Is she afraid that she's going to fall off? Or is she just supposed to be bewildered, like Starlight and Trixie are?

Is it a little strange that Starlight says that "doing a show with [Trixie] is almost as much fun as counseling students at Twilight's school"? I could imagine school guidance counselors describing their jobs as rewarding, or saying that they enjoy helping young people succeed and find their paths in life, or something like that, but would school guidance counselors describe their jobs as being "fun" like performing a stage magic show?

How does Trixie have "many fans" in Saddle Arabia? Has Trixie done any shows in Saddle Arabia before? Have Trixie's "many" Saddle Arabian fans gone to see her shows elsewhere? Are they fans because of word of mouth alone? Or is Hoo'Far misinformed or lying?

Maybe Starlight shouldn't be chatting with friends on the job, especially when there are at least several students waiting in line to see her.

Starlight says that "I should probably get somepony to cover my student counseling duties while we're gone", but then we never find out if she did that, and if so, who she got to do that, especially considering the problems with the lack of faculty and available substitutes that have been observed previously.

Why does Starlight, who had never been camping as of the start of "The Mean 6" and who said in that episode that she'll "never like camping", have her own "famous collection of campfire spices"? What would have been the rationale behind that? If Starlight had these plans to stay in high-quality inns, did she expect to still be cooking over a campfire while doing that? Or did she anticipate that they had a good chance of not being able to stay in an inn?

The board games and 1000-piece puzzles that Starlight packed could be an indication that Starlight really did intend to stay at inns along the way, though, since those don't seem like the kinds of things that people would try to do if they're setting up temporary camp by the side of the road or something similar.

Starlight brings along what appears to be a self-inflating raft, the kind for which you pull a rip cord and it'll inflate in a matter of seconds. There needs to be some force by which the raft inflates that quickly, and from what I've read, pulling the rip cord opens a canister of pressurized gas which inflates the raft. However, Starlight's purportedly self-inflating raft looks to be fairly tightly-folded thin plastic; I don't see any obvious place where a canister of pressurized gas would be, particularly one to inflate the raft to the full size that we see in the episode.

The market stand at which Trixie wants to buy haycakes looks to have only five ponies in line; would waiting in line really take "hours", as Starlight puts it? And later, when Starlight says "I'm sure we'll find out that waiting in that super-long line was worth it", is Starlight just being melodramatic in describing it as "super-long", or was it actually a super long time (e.g., hours) to wait in that line?

Finally, does Trixie care to give any reason why she always buys haycakes from this one vendor, and doesn't want to go to another one? It seems like it might significantly defuse the situation if Trixie has an understandable reason (or reasons) to go to this one vendor, other than just stating that that's what she always does.

[gingerninja666 487]

2 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Why does Starlight, who had never been camping as of the start of "The Mean 6" and who said in that episode that she'll "never like camping", have her own "famous collection of campfire spices"? What would have been the rationale behind that? If Starlight had these plans to stay in high-quality inns, did she expect to still be cooking over a campfire while doing that? Or did she anticipate that they had a good chance of not being able to stay in an inn?

The campfire spices line read to me like Starlight was just trying to sound impressive for Trixie.

About the chemistry thing between Trix and Star. I think for a lot of people it IS because they feel real. They aren't a perfect group who always have nice things to say about the other. They snipe,and they banter (my favourite example being in To Change a Changeling, where Starlight takes a jab at Trixie to get back at her for making a remark LONG after said remark initially happened. It was in a different scene even.), and they very often poke fun at the sappier things about the show's premise. The song itself follows a joke thrown by Starlight that the two of them would never be so lame as to do stuff like that. The song IS contrived and inane, exactly as you say, but It's also tinged with irony and forshadowing. They're ultra happy and bubbly, while simultaneously falling off of cliffs, jumping over crocodiles, dodging fire geysers, and singing lines like "We each have the other to blame." and how great it is that they're essentially trapped together by the journey, which is what the conflict ends up being. Hoo'far offers them his caravan mid song, and Starlight is clearly interested in what he's saying, but Trixie quickly distracts her to get back to the song. Even within itself, the song undercuts it's own message. No, the trip isn't going to be as perfect as they're making it sound, and they are going to encounter hardships. Trix and Star are not idealized as friends. There are a lot of flaws between them, and there's a roughness when you get down to it. Trix's line about them being "Great friends who share a deep bond." is said in a rushed manner while she looks like death, and is crushing Starlight against her chest, who herself looks ragged and miserable. And then when Starlight brings up the solution, Trix doesn't get it, and Starlight glares at her like she's a moron until it finally clicks. The day is saved not by some grand speech, but by them mutually embarassing themselves for the other, and Hoo'far taking pity on them and telling them to go home. They're one of the few groups in the show who end the episode not having gotten what they wanted, because they weren't ready for it.

Their relationship is built on insecurity. Both of them are very insecure ponies. Trixie is all about her ego caused by her inferiority complex, and the thing that rattles Star the most is fear of losing the ponies she cares about. That was the whole premise behind All Bottled Up (which was about losing Trixie), Uncommon Bond, and it's what drove her to evil to begin with. So yeah, they aren't utterly confident in their relationship. Because when it comes to social stuff at least, these two are the furthest thing from confident that you can get in general.

[Princess_Bellalatanya 1,053]

This episode Wes entertainingly hilarious. From starlight's relationshipship with her wagon to starlight drinking all the juice,it strengthened their bond they have together

[Music Chart Fan 819]

@gingerninja666,

I guess one question in my mind is that if the great thing about Starlight's and Trixie's friendship is supposed to be that it's especially flawed and imperfect, then what should we make of these multiple conspicuous lines of dialogue - from Cadance, Twilight, and Starlight and Trixie themselves - praising Starlight's and Trixie's friendship, and saying how great they think their road trip will be? I took the platitudes and superlatives praising Starlight's and Trixie's friendship in the first third of the episode as trying to communicate something like "Look, these characters are really praising Starlight's and Trixie's friendship, so you should think it's great, too!", with the song then just being an extension of that. And my impression from reading comments about this episode was that some commenters really did believe that Starlight and Trixie have a great and close friendship, and that those in-episode descriptions of Starlight's and Trixie's friendship are essentially right, with that being what was meant by describing Starlight and Trixie as having great chemistry.

But, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the contrived platitudes of the song, at least, are ironic, were never meant to be taken seriously, and are basically being set up to be disproven by the rest of the episode. Would that thinking also apply to other dialogue in this episode in which Starlight's and Trixie's friendship is praised and described with superlatives? Is the audience never intended to believe that Starlight and Trixie have a good friendship, such that the dialogue praising their friendship should be taken as meta and ironic, and should be seen as a setup for that dialogue to be proven wrong later and for Starlight and Trixie to be taken down a few notches? I suppose I hadn't thought of that, but I'm not sure that I really like that idea much better. I don't feel like I would derive much entertainment or schadenfreude or whatever from watching Starlight and Trixie and others describe their friendship and their activities using empty platitudes and superlatives, which are meant to be obviously wrong and never meant to be taken seriously, just so that those empty platitudes and superlatives can be torn down later. I feel more like I would just rather have those empty platitudes and superlatives not be used in the first place.

Regarding your statement that Starlight's and Trixie's is built on insecurity, I'm not sure that I understand what that means. I can understand and relate to the idea that two people who are insecure in general would want to be friends so that they could feel secure with each other and not have to deal with the same social pressure and judgment which they feel around others. And I thought that Starlight and Trixie were supposed to have first hit it off because they both were being judged and mistrusted by others for their past actions, and so they felt like they couldn't be themselves or say what they really think, whereas with each other, they could do those things. So when Starlight and Trixie repeat praise of their own friendship to each other, and use unnecessary platitudes and superlatives to describe their activities, isn't that more of the fakeness and hiding behind a facade that they would want to escape from? If Starlight and Trixie are taking insecurity-fueled actions with each other as they would with everyone else, then how is their insecurity a differentiating basis for their friendship?

I don't know that I'm on the right track or really making sense here, but at least I have more to think about in trying to understand why I saw this episode differently than most everyone else.

[gingerninja666 487]

1 hour ago, Music Chart Fan said:

@gingerninja666,

I guess one question in my mind is that if the great thing about Starlight's and Trixie's friendship is supposed to be that it's especially flawed and imperfect, then what should we make of these multiple conspicuous lines of dialogue - from Cadance, Twilight, and Starlight and Trixie themselves - praising Starlight's and Trixie's friendship, and saying how great they think their road trip will be? I took the platitudes and superlatives praising Starlight's and Trixie's friendship in the first third of the episode as trying to communicate something like "Look, these characters are really praising Starlight's and Trixie's friendship, so you should think it's great, too!", with the song then just being an extension of that. And my impression from reading comments about this episode was that some commenters really did believe that Starlight and Trixie have a great and close friendship, and that those in-episode descriptions of Starlight's and Trixie's friendship are essentially right, with that being what was meant by describing Starlight and Trixie as having great chemistry.

But, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the contrived platitudes of the song, at least, are ironic, were never meant to be taken seriously, and are basically being set up to be disproven by the rest of the episode. Would that thinking also apply to other dialogue in this episode in which Starlight's and Trixie's friendship is praised and described with superlatives? Is the audience never intended to believe that Starlight and Trixie have a good friendship, such that the dialogue praising their friendship should be taken as meta and ironic, and should be seen as a setup for that dialogue to be proven wrong later and for Starlight and Trixie to be taken down a few notches? I suppose I hadn't thought of that, but I'm not sure that I really like that idea much better. I don't feel like I would derive much entertainment or schadenfreude or whatever from watching Starlight and Trixie and others describe their friendship and their activities using empty platitudes and superlatives, which are meant to be obviously wrong and never meant to be taken seriously, just so that those empty platitudes and superlatives can be torn down later. I feel more like I would just rather have those empty platitudes and superlatives not be used in the first place.

I think you're trying to read this in an either/or context. And I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I don't think the ironic elements about the song are supposed to be schadenfreudistic. I don't think you're supposed to be sitting there hoping Trix and Star "Get taken down a peg". This isn't a punishment thing. Trix and Star aren't doing anything inherantly wrong by praising their friendship. Twi and Cadance built them up with those remarks (because the princesses are both really nice ponies and Star and Trix do work well together on stage) and Star and Trix took those those comments and felt pride because of them. They like thinking they've done a good job. That's part of the insecurity thing I was talking about. Then the conflict happens and you realize that they still have a ways to go. You like these characters, you feel bad when their flaws cause them problems, and feel good when they overcome the crisis at the end. The reamarks by Cad and Twi are a set up for the conflict. They aren't 100% disproven either. They are good friends. Trix and Star really do care about each other and Star worked to make up for her mistake at the end. They just aren't perfect. Which, again, is what a lot of fans like about them. They're good friends who still have problems to work out. And their episodes don't always have elegent endings.

A point about the nuance I mentioned. The song. The song is simultaneously the thing that forshadows the conflict of the episode, while also acting as the catalyst for it's resolution. On the one hand there's stuff like Trixie groaning about walking when Starlight brings it up, and Star clearly being interested in Hoo'far with Trixie quickly distracting her that undercuts the song slightly. It's forshadowing the eventual problem. But, within the universe of the show, they're genuinely having an absolute blast together during that song. So much that they don't realize how close to peril they're coming, and a lot of the hardships of travel don't register to them at all. It even inspired those two mail ponies to be better travelling companions. Seeing that, being reminded of how much their time together really did feel good, is what triggers Starlight's guilt and leads to her going back. The song is both ironic AND genuine. The over the top inane-ness of a lot of it is false, and gets dismantled by the episode's conflict. But the core message that they are good friends who generally love being together is real.

 

2 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Regarding your statement that Starlight's and Trixie's is built on insecurity, I'm not sure that I understand what that means. I can understand and relate to the idea that two people who are insecure in general would want to be friends so that they could feel secure with each other and not have to deal with the same social pressure and judgment which they feel around others. And I thought that Starlight and Trixie were supposed to have first hit it off because they both were being judged and mistrusted by others for their past actions, and so they felt like they couldn't be themselves or say what they really think, whereas with each other, they could do those things. So when Starlight and Trixie repeat praise of their own friendship to each other, and use unnecessary platitudes and superlatives to describe their activities, isn't that more of the fakeness and hiding behind a facade that they would want to escape from? If Starlight and Trixie are taking insecurity-fueled actions with each other as they would with everyone else, then how is their insecurity a differentiating basis for their friendship? 

It's fake, but it's not a conscious fakeness. Together they feel like they can be more open about things, but that doesn't mean that everything they say together is uncoloured by their respective mindsets. Just that they aren't willingly putting on a facade. When they repeat those unnecessary platitudes and superlatives, they aren't lying. They believe them to be true. They want them to be true. That's where the insecureness comes in. They just aren't entirely correct.

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

Oh, dear sweet Celestia, let the Trimmer ships set sail!  This whole episode was basically a Trimmer shipper's dream.  They even stopped over at the Let's Get It On Inn...

A predictable episode, but really good and enjoyable.  Not a masterpiece, but not a bad thing to say about it.  Really fun.  Enjoyed it.  Those two have a really adorable chemistry that is a joy to watch.  I still think it's incredible that I actually like Trixie now.  In the early seasons, I wanted to throw her into a pit of lava in the depths of Tartarus, and I couldn't imagine ever changing my mind.  I guess it's a character flaw of mine, but I tend not to have a very forgiving nature when it comes to people/ponies that I think are evil, and I thought Trixie was such a b*tch.  But it's a testament to the good writing of the show that they can actually follow a developmental path that makes me come around and see a character in a whole new light.  Maybe it's taught me a thing or two as well.

I'm glad that they threw in the line that Starlight had to find someone to fill in as guidance counselor.  That's the kind of thing I'm always talking about--it doesn't take much (just one quick line) but it's important to throw that in so that they maintain the fact that these characters have responsibilities and can't just do whatever the hay they want, willy nilly, at the drop of hat.  I mean, they still basically do whatever the hay they want, but at least they threw in that line.  I'm really glad they did, and a little thing like that goes a long way for me.  Incidentally, I'm betting Discord was the Guidance Counselor Pro-Temp.  Imagine how entertaining that would be to see! 

The song was forgettable, but that's okay.  It's rare for a song to be a really memorable keeper.

One thing that I have always thought is kind of funny is the fact that a prestidigitation act is even a thing in Equestria.  In a land where magic isn't mysterious nor supernatural (nor fictional), but simply a commonplace ability that literally a third of the world's population can do, a "magic" act makes no sense.  A show in which powerful unicorns display awesome, creative, awe-inspiring spells the likes of which nopony has ever seen would make sense (that would just be like us watching amazing athletes), but Trixie's show is just a regular, real life-type magic show, which just seems like it wouldn't even be noteworthy in Equestria.  In a land where unicorns can teleport themselves and others, why would the great trunk escape even be a trick?  That would be like if, in real life, Criss Angel just said, "And for my next trick, I will walk across the stage!  Here I go!  I'm walking!  ....And here I am!  Ta-dah!"

[Music Chart Fan 819]

17 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

They just aren't perfect. Which, again, is what a lot of fans like about them. They're good friends who still have problems to work out. And their episodes don't always have elegent endings.

I've seen fans of Starlight and Trixie say that they like those characters because they're imperfect and flawed and still have problems to work out, and that that makes them interesting and entertaining, particularly in comparison to the Mane Six, who are sometimes described as having become stale, boring, and/or too perfect. So I suppose it would stand to reason that a similar argument might be made for why Starlight's and Trixie's friendship is likable/interesting/entertaining, particularly in comparison to the Mane Six's friendships. However, those just aren't arguments that I really buy into; to me, Starlight's and Trixie's friendship being more flawed and imperfect than the Mane Six's friendships doesn't in itself make Starlight's and Trixie's relationship more likable or interesting or entertaining.

17 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

The over the top inane-ness of a lot of it is false, and gets dismantled by the episode's conflict. But the core message that they are good friends who generally love being together is real.

I think I better understand what the song is supposed to be accomplishing; maybe it's not just my thing. Demonstrating Starlight's and Trixie's friendship by having them sing inanities about it, while going through a sequence of repeatedly narrowly avoiding danger and being oblivious to it, is probably too wacky and contrived for my taste. I feel like I would rather see friendships demonstrated or developed through means that I would find more relatable.

17 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

When they repeat those unnecessary platitudes and superlatives, they aren't lying. They believe them to be true. They want them to be true. That's where the insecureness comes in. They just aren't entirely correct.

This might be another case of differing perspectives. I just see superlative proclamations like "This will be the best magical road trip ever!" as ridiculous on their face; consequently, I can't imagine saying or believing things like that in sincerity, and I don't like seeing characters saying or believing things like that in apparent sincerity, either. (I expressed similar sentiments about the superlative praise that Rainbow Dash's parents gave out in "Parental Glideance", for example.) I feel like I would rather have characters express sincere feelings in a way that's more grounded. But that may just be something that bothers me significantly more than it does other people. Also, in many cases, when characters make superlative proclamations like that, it seems like they're just being set up as strawmen to be knocked down later, which I usually find to be a tedious and pointless exercise.

 

I don't want this discussion to go on for too long, but I do feel now as though I understand a little better why other people might really like this episode while I don't, so thanks for taking the time to explain.

[Senko 459]

17 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Oh, dear sweet Celestia, let the Trimmer ships set sail!  This whole episode was basically a Trimmer shipper's dream.  They even stopped over at the Let's Get It On Inn...

A predictable episode, but really good and enjoyable.  Not a masterpiece, but not a bad thing to say about it.  Really fun.  Enjoyed it.  Those two have a really adorable chemistry that is a joy to watch.  I still think it's incredible that I actually like Trixie now.  In the early seasons, I wanted to throw her into a pit of lava in the depths of Tartarus, and I couldn't imagine ever changing my mind.  I guess it's a character flaw of mine, but I tend not to have a very forgiving nature when it comes to people/ponies that I think are evil, and I thought Trixie was such a b*tch.  But it's a testament to the good writing of the show that they can actually follow a developmental path that makes me come around and see a character in a whole new light.  Maybe it's taught me a thing or two as well.

I'm glad that they threw in the line that Starlight had to find someone to fill in as guidance counselor.  That's the kind of thing I'm always talking about--it doesn't take much (just one quick line) but it's important to throw that in so that they maintain the fact that these characters have responsibilities and can't just do whatever the hay they want, willy nilly, at the drop of hat.  I mean, they still basically do whatever the hay they want, but at least they threw in that line.  I'm really glad they did, and a little thing like that goes a long way for me.  Incidentally, I'm betting Discord was the Guidance Counselor Pro-Temp.  Imagine how entertaining that would be to see! 

The song was forgettable, but that's okay.  It's rare for a song to be a really memorable keeper.

One thing that I have always thought is kind of funny is the fact that a prestidigitation act is even a thing in Equestria.  In a land where magic isn't mysterious nor supernatural (nor fictional), but simply a commonplace ability that literally a third of the world's population can do, a "magic" act makes no sense.  A show in which powerful unicorns display awesome, creative, awe-inspiring spells the likes of which nopony has ever seen would make sense (that would just be like us watching amazing athletes), but Trixie's show is just a regular, real life-type magic show, which just seems like it wouldn't even be noteworthy in Equestria.  In a land where unicorns can teleport themselves and others, why would the great trunk escape even be a trick?  That would be like if, in real life, Criss Angel just said, "And for my next trick, I will walk across the stage!  Here I go!  I'm walking!  ....And here I am!  Ta-dah!"

I think the best explanation was in a fanfic I saw where its not about the trick its about the show. That is you go to see a stage magic act because you want the entertainment, you want to see her pick your card or tell tall stories about being an Ursa, you want to see how swallow swords of fire herself into a manticores mouth. Sure you know she just teleported out of there to the box but its still fun to watch.

Although it does explain a bit why she's so determined to prove she's great and powerful being a unicorn who's talent is stage magic rather than actual magic probably makes her doubt herself at least a little.

On a semi-related note there is one fanfic I like where she comes back to life 24 hours after being killed and literally doesn't realize it's anything unusual till Twilight and Starlight are having a fit over first her dying then her revelation she always comes back. At the end her new act is literally killing herself on stage.

[JCKane 345]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:23 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

She pulls the doorknob of her wagon clear off during her first conversation with Hoo’far.

While true, wasn't it more an issue with the fact that the wagon was so full that it broke the handle due to all the pressure on it?

Nonethless if it wasn't it was really the only instance of it 'falling apart' since if you looked at their trip during their song, the wagon didn't fall apart or anything but kept together and all that.  The issue was more the fact that Twilight had too much stuff for such small space.  And not that the wagon was in bad shape, considering the one guy was using it well  when he had it for the 'brief' moment.

[Sh Pie 65]

This was a great Starlight and Trixie focus episode, which has surprised me. For once, Trixie was the victim of somepony else and I actually felt bad for her when Starlight sold her wagon without consent, since that's not something a friend should do, especially after Trixie referring to her wagon as her best friend. It would be like Pinkie selling Boulder, she would never do that to Maud. Usually, Trixie is responsible for the problems. Not this time. I gain even more respect for her now after redeeming herself for her evil past.

It was humorous how Starlight and Maud tried to parody Twilight's and Cadence's chant, which was a nice throwback to something that hasn't been seen in a while. I wouldn't be opposed to more episode like this provided Trixie is portrayed sympathetically as she was here and the comedy is good. Overall, an unexpectedly enjoyable episode.

[Cash In 22,213]

I didn't expect this episode to be too amazing, but man did it go all out.

The premise of Trixie and Starlight going on a road trip was certainly interesting and while things didn't go according to plan, the episode was still entertaining. Trixie and Starlight's feud late in their journey, was kind of adorable actually, but I was glad to see them reconcile at the end. It's why I like Trixie and Starlight's friendship. They constantly face problems, they bicker and argue, but they always find a way to work things out in the end. Aside from that, I liked the humour and I loved the song. I also did like Hoo'Far and I wouldn't mind seeing him again, in the future. This was probably my favourite episode in the season, if not my second favourite.

[Here No Longer 5,276]

 I have to say, this episode was pretty good, but not fantastic.

 

The Good

• The song was solid. I found it to have moments that were just a little bit, err, cringy, but otherwise it was great.
• I really liked the portrayal of Starlight in this episode (aside from when she stole Trixie's wagon). But I can't say quite the same for Trixie.
• The premise of it was pretty well done, and fulfilled. Along with relatable issues traveling around with other people, it also shows how solid of a friendship Trixie and Starlight really have that they can have such issues on the trip, but reconcile at the end of it all.

 

The Bad

• I can't really find anything actually bad.

 

I say the episode, IMO, is a solid 9/10. Hopefully, it will stay this way for the rest of the season. But, if the way it has been is any indication, there'll likely be a stumble or two at least, but I'm starting to be a little more optimistic about it.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Dusk Noire

[Allen 1,387]

Now with this episode focus on both Starlight Glimmer and Trixie. Starlight Glimmer and Trixie are on their way for the road to friendship with her wagon from Ponyville to the village of Somnambula in Saddle Arabia, but for a long trip over there it's too heavy to carry.

The song is revealed in this episode when traveling, great! Trixie sings for the very first time in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic since this episode! 

When arriving at Somnambula, where is Somnambula in this episode, a legendary Pegasus pony of Hope who is a legendary motivational speaker for wisdom in her namesake village? Thinking that she would have made her appearance in this episode when we're in that village.

When returning to Ponyville, you left the Elderly Pony from the village of Somnambula inside her chest. Return him back over there where he mainly lives.

The conclusion for this episode is they both had their best trip to Saddle Arabia after Starlight Glimmer forgives Trixie what they both had done to split up from each other to do something that's not right when trading away her wagon to Hoo'Far, and then he trade it back to Trixie in good ways after travel. I'll rate this episode as a great episode too! 

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I really enjoyed this Trixie/Starlight episode, it was nice to see them try to go on a road trip only for it to end in disaster. The song was great and I enjoyed seeing them both argue and try to make the best out of the other one's habits. The scene in the beginning with them being weirded out by Twilight and Cadance's dance was funny and I enjoyed seeing them try to do the same dance later on in front of Hoo'Far. 10/10.

[Denim&Venöm 18,686]

I mean it was a good episode. Amazing and believable chemistry and dialogue from the two. A very character driven episode. 

But we never got an explanation of why Trixie was so attached to her wagon. Why did it mean so much? What made her little wagon more valuable than the big one?  That just bugged me till the end. And giving up on the journey to Saddle Arabia so suddenly?  That seems so counter to most MLP plots. Not even a "We'll continue on our journey, we just won't show it" type of deal. They just cut back to ponyville. 

Just little things like that really bugged me at the end, and keep it from getting a perfect score in my book. 

 

Oh and one last thing. The blue Pegasus, Rainy Day. Recognize her voice? 

She was played by Jaunice Jaud, the voice of G3 Pinkie Pie, as well as Sarah from Ed, Edd n' Eddy and Kagura from Inuyasha.  

 

[Dabmanz 2,139]

I was just listening to the song from this episode and realized the leaks might not be fake.

Spoiler

For untold seasons we will be there.  For nine at least? I hope they just mean season 9 is confirmed not that it is the last season.

 

[qwerE 96]

What a nice episode! I think Starlight and Trixie are the perfect ponies for these kind of episodes. I loved the jokes, and the story as well. 

[Star Petal 215]

Just saw this episode yesterday on a binge watch. I LOVED IT! I hope we get another trixie song, but I doubt it. Oh well...

[Rushing cash 836]

I love this episode, but I love every episode that focuses in starlight and trixie, their interactions are always funny and enjoyable(I totally ship them). The conflict felt a bit forced but other then that it amazing and one of the best episodes this season. 9\10 need more of these 2.

[BroomsNHops 260]

.... So I may be fanning over the stallion but episode aside I did really enjoy the episode. I mean as someone who has done road trips with both friends and family members the lack of space, constant contact and even small unforeseen events can really hamper any close bond.

The only issue I have is that well Starlight should of known better than to trade Trixie's wagon. Not in the sense of hey lets make a bad trade but the fact of she knows that this is her friend's home and she literally traded it off without even asking and on top of that acted as if everything was fine when confronted. So yeah I can see why everyone is saying that the conflict here was forced.

Aside from that I had a good laugh at their ' oh Twilight and her friends would of broken into song' bit and then they break into song.

 

Still though I dont think I can get over this

 

[Thrond 3,263]

How long were Trixie and Starlight singing? It seemed like they didn't stop through multiple very different environments. 

Even the bickering here is of a higher quality than usual, but at the same time it just gets so petty and so openly hostile that I kinda feel bad. Starlight and Trixie seem to have made little effort to coordinate this trip; from the very start they know there will be problems and then they just... don't address them. Starlight is aware of her snoring - shouldn't she have warned Trixie about it and brought earplugs? But I guess that's the point: they're so excited about going on a trip together that they ignore bad premonitions and fail to realise what an ordeal it will be. There are still parts of this I find a little tiresome but I still like it a lot.

On the other hand, I'm not really bothered by the wagon trade anymore. Starlight was not in her right state of mind, even after getting a good night's sleep. It's an entirely different beast from Starlight's season 7 episodes; I feel like they finally figured out what to do with her this season. 

Shout out to Hoo'far too, who only offered to trade his wagon so Trixie would be more comfortable, and then deliberately avoided trading it to force Trixie and Starlight to repair their friendship. 

Is that pony who got stuck in the chest gonna make it home safely? I'm worried. 

I'm so glad that Trixie and Twilight made up. That cold open is still the cutest thing. I like it when the ponies are friends. 

[Moony the Cat 3,702]

Since i like Trixie and Starlight, this entire Episode was just a joy to me, it is up there with my other favorite Episodes of the show.

[Rosy Moonlight 369]

I love how the episode strengthened Trixie's character and how Starlight and Trixie deal with co-existence in travel.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Rosy Moonlight