science What are your views on alien life forms?

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

33 minutes ago, Totally An Admirer said:

If you apply this probability to whole universe you'll still get millions of planet with intelligent life, if not more.

Not necessarily. It's a lot more complicated than that.

My post was intended to illustrate just how long it took multi-cellular life to evolve. Life on Earth arose rather quickly (indicating it is a probable event), but it took a very long time for complex life forms to start to appear. I would wager a guess that this is an exceptionally rare event.

Look at this another way: we have found that microbial life can survive in the vacuum of space, and even the sterilization processes we use on our equipment going into space. While we have very strict requirements for conditions we find habitable, we're continuing to find that there are are microbes that can live pretty much anywhere.

The same ratios for development of life on Earth don't necessarily apply to other bodies. It may be something like an exponential curve, where increasing complexity becomes exponentially less common throughout the universe, due to the requirements for development.

 

[Misty Shadow 7,943]

I'm pretty open to the idea of aliens being real. Like it's been reiterated countless times, with our universe being so vast, it's very difficult to imagine human beings being the only intelligent form of life.

[EpicEnergy 23,224]

20 hours ago, Yamet said:

So do you really think in the whole vastness of space Earth is the only planet to meet these requirements? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggestion that every other planet is filled to the brim with various aliens, just that there's a possibility that some planet somewhere have some form of life on it.  

It remains a possibility, nothing more. There is also a possibility for many other ideas, but that doesn’t make them any more true.

20 hours ago, Yamet said:

What makes you think we would have seen them by now? The truth of the matter is that we are unable to fully observe the whole universe with the technology we have today so there's no guarantee that just because we haven't seen it it doesn't exist. 

But it doesn’t mean that it does exist either. So, which one should we go by? I answer in more detail below, but I say we should assume it is false, that it doesn’t exist, because assuming it is true or a possibility would lead to consistency errors or our part.

8 hours ago, Totally An Admirer said:

You can believe what you enjoy mate. No one's forcing you to believe something else. But I don't think it's illogical to say that there is life beside planet earth as well. Yes, planet earth holds the power to sustain the life forms we know, but it;d just a scientific stereotype to say that life can only came into existence only and only how it began on earth.

There is no evidence for me to believe otherwise though, which is why I reject the idea that aliens exist.

8 hours ago, Totally An Admirer said:

We can debunk the flat-earth theory because we have a lots to prove to debunk that, but you don't have any proof to debunk alien life  because your reasoning is shouting out loud a single phrase "We humans know all about the existence and no one can question our knowledge because we know everything!" 

The proof is in the reasoning. The reasoning may sound like it is placing man as having full knowledge, but it isn’t. I’m just going by the knowledge we currently have, and that the knowledge we currently have says nothing about alien life or a second earth’s existence. We have no knowledge or evidence of either, so shouldn’t we assume that it is false? Because if we assume it’s true or a possibility, then we need to be consistent and stop giving objections toward every single other belief out there. That would mean there is the possibility of a Santa Clause, bigfoot, dragons, solid gold planets, so forth. Going by your comment, if we don’t have proof to debunk these beliefs, we can’t label them as illogical because we simply don’t know everything.

7 hours ago, Totally An Admirer said:

And one last thing to end this. "Scientist don't know everything, neither they can, there will always be something left to know. They only rely on little what they know and other than that they can only make assumptions." 

But this applies to all human beings. We all do that.

 

 

 

The belief in alien life has no supportive evidence. Yes, there is the vastness of outer space and the fact that humanity and the scientists will never have full knowledge of anything, but those are not evidence of alien life just as the vastness of the ocean and the fact that we may never will fully explore it are not evidences of Godzilla’s existence.

My conclusion is that we should assume an idea is false until we can obtain supportive evidence of it. Alien life remains a theory and an unsupported belief, nothing more as of now. I would go so far as to say it is illogical as well, because of several reasons that I mentioned in my previous comment, and I think those reasons are still valid due to the lack of reasons to believe otherwise.

[Dreambiscuit 10,077]

I believe there is other life in the universe as abundant as the stars in the sky, and that much of it is intelligent, with societies, religion, technology and forms of entertainment. Look at the earth and all the diversity of life here, as well as the different cultures among humans. No matter how much they may differ or how isolated some may be, there are always consistencies that seem more or less universal.

I do not think that life in the universe has to adhere to earthy standards such as oxygen, hydrogen, carbon on so on. Life can exist anywhere, and to assume it must all thrive in the same environments as life on our own little ball of dust is silly. Look at extremophiles deep in the oceans. There was a time no one would have believed such things could exist, but there they are. Life adapts to its environments and can thrive in the most extreme conditions, whether the narrow views of humanity can account for it or not. 

The universe is not a dead place. Life happens, and I believe it happens often. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Dreambiscuit

[Luna's Admirer 945]

19 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

It remains a possibility, nothing more. There is also a possibility for many other ideas, but that doesn’t make them any more true.

At least now you're willing to say "There is an possibility." That's a good start.

19 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

But it doesn’t mean that it does exist either. So, which one should we go by? I answer in more detail below, but I say we should assume it is false, that it doesn’t exist, because assuming it is true or a possibility would lead to consistency errors or our part.

I don't think there is any error in being curious about or even believing in something unknown. Every new thing which is discovered or invented starts in same way, because someone was curious or have a believe. And you said by yourself "It remains a possibility." 

So what is your point here.

19 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

There is no evidence for me to believe otherwise though, which is why I reject the idea that aliens exist.

I never said we need an evidence to believe something. We can believe in something until we have an evidence to not-believe this. Again you said yourself "There is a possibility." So we can believe in that possibility. 

19 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

The proof is in the reasoning. The reasoning may sound like it is placing man as having full knowledge, but it isn’t. I’m just going by the knowledge we currently have, and that the knowledge we currently have says nothing about alien life or a second earth’s existence. We have no knowledge or evidence of either, so shouldn’t we assume that it is false? Because if we assume it’s true or a possibility, then we need to be consistent and stop giving objections toward every single other belief out there. That would mean there is the possibility of a Santa Clause, bigfoot, dragons, solid gold planets, so forth. Going by your comment, if we don’t have proof to debunk these beliefs, we can’t label them as illogical because we simply don’t know everything.

So, that's your reasoning to debunk my comment. Let me clear myself then: If there is enough evidence to object any belief I'll be first to reject that. Give me single reason to believe that life can come to existence if and only if we've an environment like earth and not otherwise. You're just saying "There none because we've seen none." And that's not a good enough reason for me to believe otherwise. 

20 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

But this applies to all human beings. We all do that.

And you're just another human being doing the same thing.

Now, I am assuming another possibility that you're still not convinced. I will see if my assumption is right or wrong.

 

[EpicEnergy 23,224]

14 minutes ago, Totally An Admirer said:

At least now you're willing to say "There is an possibility." That's a good start.

I didn't mean to make it seem that way, because I'm fully convinced that there is no possibility. I should have worded that in a better way.

22 minutes ago, Totally An Admirer said:

You're just saying "There none because we've seen none." And that's not a good enough reason for me to believe otherwise.

Yes, I suppose it isn't a good enough reason as well. However, there are other reasons to believe otherwise.

1) Every single planet we have observed simply does not have the atmosphere to support life on it. There is also no possibility that a second earth could be out there.

2) The Hubble Telescope can see out billions and billions of lightyears away. Other telescopes can do the same, and we have seen many galaxies and stars that are so far away, humanity could never reach them. To tell me that alien life exists on any one of those planets or stars does not convince me, since we can see everything now. If there was alien life, or at least a planet capable of supporting it, I'm sure the Hubble Telescope would have spotted it by now. It even spots the black holes out there, which nothing can survive by the way. We can see millions of stars and planets, yet none of them have alien life?

Regardless, you still have ground to say that there is alien life out there, but only as a theory or belief. I think at this point, it would be good to agree to disagree on our views of the existence of alien life. I apologize if I offended you in any way, because I know how offensive attacks on one's beliefs can get in these types of arguments.

[Olly 1,011]

There is no evidence that intelligent/advanced life exists anywhere outside earth. The End?

Edited August 23, 2018 by Olly

[Luna's Admirer 945]

2 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

I didn't mean to make it seem that way, because I'm fully convinced that there is no possibility. I should have worded that in a better way.

Yes, I suppose it isn't a good enough reason as well. However, there are other reasons to believe otherwise.

1) Every single planet we have observed simply does not have the atmosphere to support life on it. There is also no possibility that a second earth could be out there.

2) The Hubble Telescope can see out billions and billions of lightyears away. Other telescopes can do the same, and we have seen many galaxies and stars that are so far away, humanity could never reach them. To tell me that alien life exists on any one of those planets or stars does not convince me, since we can see everything now. If there was alien life, or at least a planet capable of supporting it, I'm sure the Hubble Telescope would have spotted it by now. It even spots the black holes out there, which nothing can survive by the way. We can see millions of stars and planets, yet none of them have alien life?

Regardless, you still have ground to say that there is alien life out there, but only as a theory or belief. I think at this point, it would be good to agree to disagree on our views of the existence of alien life. I apologize if I offended you in any way, because I know how offensive attacks on one's beliefs can get in these types of arguments.

I think this is best way to settle to this before it get any bitter, because I am not convinced (and agree with) the statements you presented so I apologize as well. Good day mate.

[Celli 4,338]

37 minutes ago, Olly said:

There is no evidence that intelligent/advanced life exists anywhere outside earth. The End?

There's no evidence to say otherwise either. 

2 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

1) Every single planet we have observed simply does not have the atmosphere to support life on it. There is also no possibility that a second earth could be out there.

We have also not been able to observe what type of atmosphere exoplanets have either, so this statement makes zero sense. 

[Luna's Admirer 945]

15 minutes ago, Celli said:

There's no evidence to say otherwise either. 

We have also not been able to observe what type of atmosphere exoplanets have either, so this statement makes zero sense. 

I completely agree with your statements. 

[Olly 1,011]

Just now, Celli said:

There's no evidence to say otherwise either. 

 

According to the Drake equation, there are between 1000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the milky way. That's math and probability though, and we have no way of confirming. 

I don't think we'll discover alien life. But if we do, it'll likely be by finding a true Dyson Sphere. 

[Celli 4,338]

3 minutes ago, Olly said:

 

According to the Drake equation, there are between 1000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the milky way. That's math and probability though, and we have no way of confirming. 

I don't think we'll discover alien life. But if we do, it'll likely be by finding a true Dyson Sphere. 

But you acknowledge we can't know whether or not there's sentient life elsewhere with our current technology.

[Olly 1,011]

1 minute ago, Celli said:

But you acknowledge we can't know whether or not there's sentient life elsewhere with our current technology.

That's exactly what I was saying 

1 hour ago, Olly said:

There is no evidence that intelligent/advanced life exists anywhere outside earth. The End?

 

[Luna's Admirer 945]

Just now, Olly said:

That's exactly what I was saying 

I see, you said there is no evidence. You didn't say there is none. 

[Denim&Venöm 19,246]

It's a bit absurd to think that earth is the only planet out of the (bare minimum) millions of planets out there in the cosmos with the right combination of factors to create life. Now whether that life is single celled organisms or beings so advanced they can be perceived as demigods is just as much of a toss up as determining which of all the planets in creation has life to begin with. 

[CheeryFox 23,822]

Gonna have to go with this statement: "I would argue that in any habitable zone that doesn't boil or freeze, intelligent life is going to emerge because intelligence is convergent."

[Here No Longer 5,276]

I believe for absolute certain there's intelligent life somewhere in our universe (it's way too big not to). It would not make sense to assume otherwise, to be honest. 

As for what they'll be like, I'm actually more inclined to say that our first encounter will more than likely be a peaceful one. I see no real logical reason for aliens to be aggressive, considering that they have nothing to really gain from conquering our planet or our species. Think about it. The only actual logic that points to an aggressive civilization is that they likely need energy. It's a really weak argument, considering three things: They could just build a Dyson Sphere from nearby uninhabited planets to take energy from their sun, it would actually take a massive amount of energy to conquer to whole of Earth, and that there's likely to be some sort of casualties. Even if they are hundreds or even thousands of years more advanced. It's more likely they'd want diplomatic ties (though it would take time to establish them) and actually allow us to help each other explore the cosmos. The relationship could potentially be mutually beneficial and help out both races without expending the energy or the resources to conquer a planet. There is a hole with this idea, however. That being the language barrier. It would take time, but I believe it could be solved through mutual cooperation to try to translate our languages to each other. Assuming they are highly advanced, it may be easier for them to learn our language than for us to attempt to understand theirs. 

 

But hey, some people will find reasons to believe it's unlikely for a civilization far more advanced than ours will actually be able to use their freaking brain...

[Quinch 1,120]

Overall, I think the usual error with trying to deal with the Fermi paradox isn't space - it's time.

Whether planets exist that can support life in our galaxy is a non-question, answered by sheer brute force statistics. There might even be planets or satellites that support life in our immediate stellar neighborhood, if not the very solar system. There might even be planets that have life.

So what?

The thing is, we tend to conflate "life" with "civilization", and while you certainly can't have the latter without the former, there's a major difference between algae and spaceships.

According to an admittedly lazy search, the first cells as we know them kicked off about two billion years ago. Reptiles showed up about 350 million years ago, then mammals 160 million years ago. Hominids showed up on the scene a whopping two and a half million years ago and, let's be generous, we've had civilization in some form or another for the past ten thousand years. So, if we assume a roughly same rate of evolution and development as Earth, there'd be about one in two hundred thousand chance that we'll hit upon someone at roughly same level of evolution as ourselves, and that goes the same for any alien civilization looking for someone like us.

If we find a planet that has life on it, odds are that it will be nothing more than self-replicating organic soup. Maybe there'd be some simple organisms. But, speaking on that scale, the moment sentience and selection pressure through social structures thought start to develop, a species has become a civilization and will either have destroyed itself, transcended such simplistic concepts as space exploration or developed to such Lovecraftian degree that beings on our technological and biological level are not meaningfully different than the aforementioned algae and worth about the same amount of curiosity.

So, in short, there is life out there and it is either uninteresting, or uninterested.

[Luna's Admirer 945]

5 hours ago, Quinch said:

According to an admittedly lazy search, the first cells as we know them kicked off about two billion years ago. Reptiles showed up about 350 million years ago, then mammals 160 million years ago. Hominids showed up on the scene a whopping two and a half million years ago and, let's be generous, we've had civilization in some form or another for the past ten thousand years. So, if we assume a roughly same rate of evolution and development as Earth, there'd be about one in two hundred thousand chance that we'll hit upon someone at roughly same level of evolution as ourselves, and that goes the same for any alien civilization looking for someone like us.

Still when you apply this probability on whole of universe then you'll still get more than millions of planets with intelligent life. 

 

5 hours ago, Quinch said:

So, in short, there is life out there and it is either uninteresting, or uninterested.

I'd like to go with latter. 

[Codelyy 1,286]

I think when people say the Universe is MASSIVE, most people are not actually able to visualize how MASSIVE it actually is. The Milky Way is one Galaxy out of millions and people believe that out of all these Galaxy's, out of all the Solar Systems in these millions of Galaxies, and then out of all the Planets in these Solar Systems, that Earth is the only Planet with life on it? I mean life may be rare but I don't think it's that rare!

This is an amazing video I watched that really helped me visualize how big the Universe actually is (Watch from 5:15 to understand the full scale of the Universe):

It also goes over the radius of our communications and it's basically nothing! If you think we've only had the tech to send signals over long distances for less then 100 years now which is no time at all, so it makes sense why we've discovered no Aliens yet.

It may be that our signals have actually reached Aliens but it's either that they're too primitive to actually understand them or even see them (Single celled organisms or primitive aliens that are in the tribal age for example), Or our signals have reached aliens that are far more advanced then us but we're sending signals that are highly primitive so neither can they understand them/see them.

I really don't think it needs to be a concern at the moment since as mentioned, we've only been sending signals for less then 100 years. Maybe in 1000 years time it'll be more of a concern that we've still not discovered Aliens but for right now, it makes sense why we haven't. I think what we've sadly got to understand is it's unlikely we'll ever see Aliens in our life time. Or at least not the type of Aliens you expect (Likely just single celled organisms)

 

[Here No Longer 5,276]

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:57 PM, Olly said:

There is no evidence that intelligent/advanced life exists anywhere outside earth. The End?

Just because there's no real evidence of intelligent life doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Frankly, it actually means nothing that we haven't found evidence of advanced alien life considering we've only sent satellites as far as Pluto, and that we've only been looking for forty years. Even then, there are fifty-five exoplanets that are considered to be potentially habitable as of right now, according to the University of Puerto Rico. Considering the fact we've just started to look for them, knowing of fifty five habitable planets outside of our solar system already makes it much easier for me personally to believe that it's extraordinarily unlikely that there aren't intelligent lifeforms. Sure, it's not too likely that there's one out of fifty-five, but since the first of those was found by NASA in 2014. At that rate, we find a potentially habitable exoplanet once every three or four weeks, and that would mean that we will find 600 more by the end of the century. That's at that rate. It's likely that we'll actually start finding them faster, assuming that the technology they use to find them gets more and more efficient and acquires a longer and longer range.

 

We may not find  a Dyson Sphere (A sphere built around a sun to collect its energy) any time soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if aliens contact us within the next century, considering our rate of development, as we likely haven't developed advanced enough of technology for them to notice or want to contact us and our technology is advancing at a progressively faster rate. They may even have rules against it, because Star Trek's Star Fleet does (it's prohibited by the entirety of their Prime Directive, what is linked there). Even though that is from a TV show written by humans, it does stand to reason also that they may be waiting until they can see that we can be responsible with highly advanced technology, weapons in particular. It also stands to reason that they don't want to accidentally interfere in our technological development as a species, and that sort of goes hand in hand with the former. Both of these potential problems could become a disaster for our species, and also a potential threat to theirs or even other species if there are any (which it is quite possible, and arguably likely that there are).

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Barik, the Master Mechanic

[Frostgage 7,976]

The idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is super intriguing, though I suppose we can't know for sure if it exists. Finding evidence of alien life would be very exciting, although it could possibly mean bad things for us

[Rainbow Dash 1,472]

I hear a lot of people argue: "If aliens existed, why havent they visited us yet?" Which brings up a good point, but also a scenario that aliens are progressing as fast as we are or slower.

Then i get the whole, "They exist and have been studying us for millennia." which could be a possibility.There has also been instances where government officials or even scientists have alluded to aliens walking amongst us right now. Here is a video that is close to what im trying to say

Personally, I think the advanced Aliens have already visited us and deemed us as a hostile threat or too primitive to talk to. Meanwhile the aliens who are on par with us are in the same "do they exist" mindset. I also think there is another intelligent life form just starting out somewhere and as far as UFOs i think they are mostly recon ships from other worlds or aliens going for a joyride to look at the wildlife. Kinda like how us humans drive to zoos or national animal reserves.

[Ganondox 899]

Scientifically, aliens probably exist somewhere, but it’s extremely unlikely that we will ever encounter any. 

Religously, the same holds, though we may meet them in another life. 

Personally, I think aliens have visited us, they just keep themselves hidden. 

[Princess Lulu <3~ 23]

It's hard to Believe i may have searched online that some alien's may have exist somewhere out there.

We may see them in another world but that's not likely the case we ever find any at all and i also think alien's visited us at one point as well, they are just hidden Beneath themselves somewhere.